Wanting help optimizing a Controller fighter

[Stattick]

I have a backup character in an Out of the Abyss (please, no spoilers) game I'm playing in. I normally don't play fighters, as I find them kinda boring and repetitive, but I'm going to try my hand at it with this character, if my present character dies.

GM has said that he's planning on running until we hit lvl 20, though we'll have to wait and see. We're presently at lvl 2.


The character that I have is:
Leonin Fighter (Scout)

GM said standard array or point buy. So, with race mods, here's what I have for attributes (would be willing to change):

16 str, 13 dx, 16 con, 8 int, 12 wis, 10 chr.
Outlander background.

Current skills:
Athletics, Stealth, Perception, Survival, Intimidation. At 3rd lvl, I get 3 more skills. Planning on: Acrobatics, Investigation, Insight.
Tools: None
Languages: Common, Leonin, Abyssal (from fighting Gnolls out on the plains)

Planning (assuming GM is alright with it) to replace Natural Explorer with Deft Explorer, from the Feature Variant UA. Probably pick Roving to start.

We start w/ a free feat at 1st lvl. I was planning on taking Martial Adept: Push, Riposte. Fighting Style: Superior Technique: Trip.
So, at 1st lvl, 3 maneuvers known, w/ 2d6 Superiority Dice. Scout comes online @ 3rd with more dice.

Starting w/ Chain, but will upgrade to Breastplate later, so Stealth will be on the table. Cats stealth, ambush, pounce... let victim start to get away, then pounce again.

Thinking about multiclassing into Ranger @ 6th. If so, will need to bump up Wis by a point @ 4th. Figure best bet would be: +1 Wis/+1 Dex.
@7th, when I hit 2nd lvl Ranger, thinking about taking Fighting Style: Druidic Warrior [Create Bonfire, Thorn Whip]. Spells @ 2nd, thinking about: Fog Cloud, Ensnaring Strike.

I'm not sure how long to stay in Ranger. 2 lvls gets me the bonus skill @ 1st, spellcasting, extra Fighting Style. 5 lvls gets me 2nd lvl spells, and a subclass (probably Gloom Stalker). I don't think I'd stay for more than 5 lvls though.

I'm not sure what weapon(s) to use, other than wanting melee. Our ranger will likely be mostly ranged, druid can probably do some tanking, depending on subclass. But our party is shy on tanks. I was originally thinking of using a polearm w/ PAM and/or Sentinel. Get in those extra attacks, lock 'em down.

But I'm not sure that polearm is the best bet. Maybe using a shield would be better? I'm looking at 16 vs 18 AC, and those are both kinda low for the tank. Maybe there's a way to pick up some mithral plate, to get a decent AC without loosing Stealth and Pouncing death?

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Current party make-up: Halfling Druid, Halfling Ranger, (half-elf?) Wizard, and my current character, Half-Drow Rogue (plan: Arcane Trickster, will multiclass eventually to dip War Wizard).

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GOAL: Wanting a stealthy, fast, Str based Controller, with pounce.

PLAY STYLE: I play in an intelligent, creative way. I tend to think outside of the box, take big risks, and often roll critical successes when I try something totally crazy.



So, thoughts? Advice?

[Unoriginal]

If you want a Controller Fighter, what makes you favor the Scout over the Cavalier?

Also. the Scout was made into a Rogue subclass when it became official. Does your DM allow the old UA version regardless?

[Stattick]

If you want a Controller Fighter, what makes you favor the Scout over the Cavalier?

Also. the Scout was made into a Rogue subclass when it became official. Does your DM allow the old UA version regardless?

Honestly, I'd never taken a look at the Cavalier. It's a mounted fighter, which is something that's never really worked well in most DnD games.

As far as Scout is concerned, I knew that there was a Rogue version in addition to the Fighter version. I always looked at them as two different beasts. But you're right, it is something that I'd have to ask the GM about.

[LudicSavant]

Here's some Controller Fighters for you:

The Soulknife (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24681222&postcount=523)
The Ancestral Avenger (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24673886&postcount=511)

[Spiritchaser]

I feel obligated to offer a suggestion for echo knight with sentinel and 3 levels of ancestral guardian barbarian (probably not more at lower levels anyway). If you want something that plays like a normal fighter, this isn’t it, but it’s a blast!

Outstanding control/debuff vs single targets, and you can work sentinel for two sometimes.

Edit: ludicsavant beat me to it, see his ancestral avenger and modify as needed, it’s a great starting point

I don’t have any issue with scout fighter, It’s great but as mentioned above, it is UA (really good UA but still)

Cavaliers would also be sensible, but that too has been covered.

[Unoriginal]

Honestly, I'd never taken a look at the Cavalier. It's a mounted fighter, which is something that's never really worked well in most DnD games.

Cavalier is FAR from being just "a mounted fighter", though.

It get one perk for mounted combat, sure, but its bread and butter is being able to mark enemies, who then have an harder time attacking anyone but the Cavalier, and to block attacks both on itself and on its teammates.


Spiritchaser's suggestion could also work.

[Stattick]

I feel obligated to offer a suggestion for echo knight with sentinel and 3 levels of ancestral guardian barbarian (probably not more at lower levels anyway). If you want something that plays like a normal fighter, this isn’t it, but it’s a blast!

Outstanding control/debuff vs single targets, and you can work sentinel for two sometimes.

Edit: ludicsavant beat me to it, see his ancestral avenger and modify as needed, it’s a great starting point

I don’t have any issue with scout fighter, It’s great but as mentioned above, it is UA (really good UA but still)

Cavaliers would also be sensible, but that too has been covered.

Yeah, having actually looked at Cavalier now, it's NOT what I expected. But I'm not sure I can justify a lion man the size of Shaq as a mounted warrior.

[Unoriginal]

Yeah, having actually looked at Cavalier now, it's NOT what I expected. But I'm not sure I can justify a lion man the size of Shaq as a mounted warrior.

Well:

1) A Cavalier does not have to be a mounted warrior. I've seen a Warforged Cavalier, and they were literally too heavy for any mount they could have access to at the time.

2) Being tall isn't enough to disqualify anyone as a mounted warrior in D&D. Regular horses can be huge, and there's a lot more mounts than horses in D&D.


Even if you just go by real life, the actors who played the Mountain in Game of Throne were still able to ride.

[Man_Over_Game]

Yeah, having actually looked at Cavalier now, it's NOT what I expected. But I'm not sure I can justify a lion man the size of Shaq as a mounted warrior.

It's like one minor perk that uses the word "Mount", and another mid-level feature that requires you to move before you attack (which is easier on a mount but still manageable as a DWARF).

The Cavalier is basically just a more-aggressive Ancestral Guardian Barbarian that focuses more on charging in first and standing his ground where the AG wants to kite his targets. The Mount is actually just a tool that allows you to use that aggression for flanking or retreating back into your team after over-extending, while the AG wants to taunt and consistently sit near his team for backup.

The Cavalier is not my favorite in a team with few melee combatants, as it's useless if the enemy is already planning on focusing on the first target within reach. In a way, the Cavalier is basically the Sentinel Feat as a subclass.


Personally, I think taunt-based tanks would have a lot more to work with if they had some kind of telegraphed defense, like the Dodge Action, so that they can throttle between "Hit me, I dare you" and "Don't hit me, I dare you". As of right now, those are almost mutually exclusive, outside of AG mobility and Bear Totem Barbarians using Sentinel (and the latter is less of a lever and more of a passive Lose/Lose situation against the enemy).