Outsiders memories wiped - what about the IFCC?

[Cicciograna]

Hey, sorry if this question has been already answered in the past. In strip 1147 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1147.html), Thor tells Durkon that outsiders have their memories wiped every time the world is remade: does this imply that Nero, Cedric and Lee, who are not gods, are formatted too? Like, this IFCC thingie they have going on belongs only to this world tenure, correct?

[Worldsong]

If the gods have been doing their job properly, yes.

Of course there could be the plot twist that the three of them managed to avoid being memory wiped and because of that have plans concerning the Snarl...

[Draconi Redfir]

They did seem to indicate that they were a new thing when V first met them, rather then a long-term thing that's been going on for an extended period.

if they did form in previous worlds, i'd expect either they just independently did so multiple times, or their memories were tweaked to believe the initial idea was formed before / during this world's creation.

[Peelee]

They did seem to indicate that they were a new thing when V first met them, rather then a long-term thing that's been going on for an extended period.

if they did form in previous worlds, i'd expect either they just independently did so multiple times, or their memories were tweaked to believe the initial idea was formed before / during this world's creation.

New headcanon: as far as the gods are concerned, the IFCC is basically Ned Ryerson in Groundhog Day.

[Mastikator]

As far as we know the IFCC didn't even know about this whole Snarl business until 380 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0380.html). (which is also their first appearance)

Edit- That said, they may have been going on for much longer. The gates are only a means to an end to them, their goal is to overthrow good or something- with or without the Snarl.

[Sesharan]

I got the impression that the whole Gate thing (where the rifts are temporarily plugged but the world is not destroyed) is a somewhat unusual state of affairs. The IFCC may not usually have the opportunity to observe the existence of the Snarl for any meaningful amount of time before the Big Reset, which makes this world a unique chance for them. A once-in-existence opportunity for them to study the Snarl, possibly draw certain conclusions about what its existence means for their past, get angry about it, and develop a plan to take advantage of the situation.

[Precure]

How old are they? They might be not even alive back then.

[snowblizz]

As far as we know the IFCC ...

... their goal is to overthrow good or something- ...

And this doesn't have to be incompatible with not actually having a clue of what is going on.

I would say that's a ruse perpetuated by the evil gods, something to boost their power in this world by using fiends as pawns. That's kinda how evil works isn't it. Surreptiously. The fiends themselves fulfil their assigned role in a fantasy parody. It's a fantasy rpg so there must be fiends plotting to overthrow the good gods. Their connecting to the Snarl business might lead them to finding out incovenient truths sooner than later ofc. But basically the IFCC is as beholden to the gods who created the world as thier good counterparts are. Except the good ones might not be happy to know how the gods actually conduct business.

[Anymage]

The IFCC seems relatively recent even by this world's definition, and might not even make sense in other worlds. It depends on how much D&D metaphysics apply beyond the simple planet. Did the cyberpunk universe have the standard alignment tic-tac-toe grid, or were the concepts released to the astral and outer planes more freeform?

There's also the part where standard D&D lore has the various types of fiends absolutely hating each other. Which means that evil often winds up fighting evil more often than it fights good. (Good and neutral creatures being quite happy that evil creatures are spending their strength killing each other instead of turning their collective attentions elsewhere.) The IFCC is more a nod to this, which readers who haven't been playing the game forever might not know about, than anything that naturally grows out of the snarl business.

So yeah. Fiends from across the alignment spectrum joining up is likely an idea that occurs naturally over time in any world that has a law/chaos axis as well as a good/evil one. They don't need to muddy up the multiple worlds plot when they're plenty effective just taken at face value.

[Dr.Zero]

Hey, sorry if this question has been already answered in the past. In strip 1147 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1147.html), Thor tells Durkon that outsiders have their memories wiped every time the world is remade: does this imply that Nero, Cedric and Lee, who are not gods, are formatted too? Like, this IFCC thingie they have going on belongs only to this world tenure, correct?

Yes. And they know about the gate because Sabine said them about it when she went to "pay tribute to the Blood Knight".

Edit: it was the Red Knight, anyway https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0380.html

[Paleomancer]

And this doesn't have to be incompatible with not actually having a clue of what is going on.

I would say that's a ruse perpetuated by the evil gods, something to boost their power in this world by using fiends as pawns. That's kinda how evil works isn't it. Surreptiously. The fiends themselves fulfil their assigned role in a fantasy parody. It's a fantasy rpg so there must be fiends plotting to overthrow the good gods. Their connecting to the Snarl business might lead them to finding out incovenient truths sooner than later ofc. But basically the IFCC is as beholden to the gods who created the world as thier good counterparts are. Except the good ones might not be happy to know how the gods actually conduct business.

Possibly... but Mr. Burlew does emphasize that evil is not a big happy family. Even if the Evil Gods planned for the IFCC to be elite pawns, fiends are traditionally untrustworthy and hostile to any deity (serving evil ones out of fear, rather than respect), and would certainly attempt to have their own agenda. The IFCC's desire to stop the blood war is hardly in line with that goal. Plus their scheme did cost Tiamat a lot of actual or potential black dragon worshipers (presumably that relates to deistic needs for balanced nourishment)... and the IFCC did seem to imply that their statement was nothing more than a distraction to mollify her wrath.

[Goblin_Priest]

Yes. And they know about the gate because Sabine said them about it when she went to "pay tribute to the Blood Knight".

Edit: it was the Red Knight, anyway https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0380.html

I'm going to nitpick and say that we never saw Sabine reveal it to them, and without that scene (and maybe even if we had had it), we don't know that they didn't already know.

[dancrilis]

I'm going to nitpick and say that we never saw Sabine reveal it to them, and without that scene (and maybe even if we had had it), we don't know that they didn't already know.

Now I am wondering ... 10% of what?

[Gift Jeraff]

I get the feeling that Thor's line about the outsiders going nuts from learning about the big picture was a hint about what's happening or perhaps already happened to the IFCC Directors.

[mjasghar]

I suspect the ifcc plan is due to the one aspect of the current world that lead to the dark one - this iteration is a self-referring parody
So the evil outsiders can see that it’s better to cooperate and kill the good guys first

[Crusher]

New headcanon: as far as the gods are concerned, the IFCC is basically Ned Ryerson in Groundhog Day.

Needle nose Ned? Ned the Head?

I love this. “Sigh, of COURSE they’re doing it AGAIN.”

[Riftwolf]

My Headcanon (which could still be confirmed as Canon) is that everyone making plans in this comic is doing so without all the information. We've seen it with the Dark One, Redcloak, Xykon, Tsukiko, Miko, The Order, Tarquin, Durkon, even Thor and Odin. The IFCCs plan could be built off a false premise; they believe they have all the information but don't know about the outsider memory wipe. This doesn't mean they don't have information we don't, it means they don't have information that we do.

[Crusher]

Now I am wondering ... 10% of what?

Probably souls in some fashion.

[Worldsong]

My Headcanon (which could still be confirmed as Canon) is that everyone making plans in this comic is doing so without all the information. We've seen it with the Dark One, Redcloak, Xykon, Tsukiko, Miko, The Order, Tarquin, Durkon, even Thor and Odin. The IFCCs plan could be built off a false premise; they believe they have all the information but don't know about the outsider memory wipe. This doesn't mean they don't have information we don't, it means they don't have information that we do.

That does make sense. Also it would be kind of strange if, of all the groups, it was a bunch of fiends who had all the information. I mean I know fiends are supposed to be the ones promising forbidden knowledge to overeager mortals but it's not like they can just look all of this stuff up on a whim.

Although I do still think it's within the realm of possibility that Thor's comment about the outsiders ends up being relevant.

[Anymage]

Although I do still think it's within the realm of possibility that Thor's comment about the outsiders ends up being relevant.

I guess it all comes down to how much the IFCC matters going forwards, beyond their ability to remove V from play twice more. I have a feeling that this being the closing book, however, they're not going to have their villainous role expanded that much.

[Riftwolf]

I guess it all comes down to how much the IFCC matters going forwards, beyond their ability to remove V from play twice more. I have a feeling that this being the closing book, however, they're not going to have their villainous role expanded that much.

... Except that at the end of the last book, there was a cutaway to the IFCC which suggested their villainous role was going to expand significantly.

[KorvinStarmast]

... Except that at the end of the last book, there was a cutaway to the IFCC which suggested their villainous role was going to expand significantly. Yeah, they are putting an artifact into play (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1183.html), and IIRC, Redcloak's cloak is the only artifact in the game/story so far.

[TheNecrocomicon]

I have to agree that it certainly seems that the IFCC are going to crash and bash their way onto the prime material scene more effectively than the Kool-Aid guy bursting through a wall as soon as they put their vaguely promised "artifact" and "vessel" into play. This strikes me as very much a second-act "from bad to infinitely worse" development that storytelling today seems to absolutely love.

At this point, I think it would be awesomely poetic justice if the IFCC were to end up with the ritual-controlled Rift and Snarl redirected onto and unleashed upon their home domain(s), to unmake them utterly and to permanently remove their collective threat to the current OotS world and any future world in-universe.

[Metastachydium]

At this point, I think it would be awesomely poetic justice if the IFCC were to end up with the ritual-controlled Rift and Snarl redirected onto and unleashed upon their home domain(s), to unmake them utterly and to permanently remove their collective threat to the current OotS world and any future world in-universe.

Y'see, that would likely create more problems than it would solve.

[TheNecrocomicon]

Y'see, that would likely create more problems than it would solve.

How so exactly? By all indications, the IFCC's personal domain(s) appear(s) to be distinct from those of even the evil gods and the "guys downstairs".

By their own admission, all the IFCC want is "destructive, unnecessary conflict", which the overarching story seems to be taking a fairly strong position against.

[Metastachydium]

How so exactly? By all indications, the IFCC's personal domain(s) appear(s) to be distinct from those of even the evil gods and the "guys downstairs".

By their own admission, all the IFCC want is "destructive, unnecessary conflict", which the overarching story seems to be taking a fairly strong position against.

All those souls Lee's getting on the mail… I have difficulty believing they do not power some plane which is at least partially under some Lawful Evil god's control.
Not to mention that this would mean the Snarl is loose and out in the open.

[TheNecrocomicon]

All those souls Lee's getting on the mail… I have difficulty believing they do not power some plane which is at least partially under some Lawful Evil god's control.
Not to mention that this would mean the Snarl is loose and out in the open.

Loose on one plane (if not demiplane) that's not exactly a loss in terms of cosmological survival.

Lee cannot be the only person processing souls for a Lawful Evil god who can find other demonic servants to do the same.

It's not like Evil is one big, happy family (an idea that's been explicitly rejected on multiple occasions) -- if anything, it seems the Evil gods don't even truly know the IFCC's plan, if Tiamat's reaction is any indication. If the Evil gods realize that the IFCC's plan is just too destructive to be tolerated, particularly in the context of the struggle against the Snarl, even they would likely cut the IFCC loose.

[Metastachydium]

Loose on one plane (if not demiplane) that's not exactly a loss in terms of cosmological survival.

The Snarl loose anywhere outside its prison is a risk in terms of cosmological survival.


Lee cannot be the only person processing souls for a Lawful Evil god who can find other demonic servants to do the same.

You mean devilish, don't you?


It's not like Evil is one big, happy family (an idea that's been explicitly rejected on multiple occasions) -- if anything, it seems the Evil gods don't even truly know the IFCC's plan, if Tiamat's reaction is any indication. If the Evil gods realize that the IFCC's plan is just too destructive to be tolerated, particularly in the context of the struggle against the Snarl, even they would likely cut the IFCC loose.

Of course it isn't a big happy family.
The problem is more about losing a plane which stores soul energy for someone.

[danielxcutter]

If the Snarl finds a dimensional portal to the Astral, pretty much everything everywhere is screwed.

[Emanick]

If the Snarl finds a dimensional portal to the Astral, pretty much everything everywhere is screwed.

With luck, though, it will still take thirty thousand googleplex years for it to get from that portal to another portal or to the habitation of any other sentient being. :smalltongue:

[KorvinStarmast]

The IFCC are freelancers. Watch the TV show Shark Tank.
IFCC are three {beings} presenting a plan/product and asking for more funding.
V hasn't the business acumen of Mark Cuban. :smalltongue:

[Goblin_Priest]

I don't believe we've got much indication that the Snarl is particularly motile. Being on the Astral Plane, and actively navigating the Astral Plane in the search for gates, are two distinct things. Lots of stuff's on the Astral Plane, many of which could destroy nations or worse (epic and deific levels of power). Yet they seem to largely remain there.

As for the IFCC, I tend to believe that their importance will be relative to the investment put into them. At this point, it's certain they'll have an important role to come, but at the same time, we've also barely seen them, and barely have any ideas about what they are doing and why. Of course, this could be greatly expanded in a coming book, but we've already got bigger issues at hand, namely surrounding Team Evil and all of its components individually (bar maybe Oona, thinking more Xykon and his phylactery and his astral fortress, Redcloak and the phylactery and the Plan, MitD and his identity and his growing morals and his enchantment). There's already a lot to cover, and it feels like the comic is nearing its resolution (though iirc there's still a few books left to print?).