Summon Greater Demon + Planar Binding = "Best Demonic Friend"

[hitchhike79]

A quick background i have been playing a straight up Abjuration Wizard and really really enjoying it.
Approaching lvl 10 and wow the things i can do are silly. It can only get better from here....

Well until i took a dark gift from a one Halaster Blackcloak in the Undermountain.
I wont go into the nitty gritty but i got an alternate personality that is evil.

While playing out the Evil me when it takes over, ive been summoning Greater Demons a bit and thought.... why couldnt i just Planar Bind it to me for 24hrs and beyond?
That got me thinking down a bunch of different avenues, here are those thoughts and questions;


First and foremost, can you summon a demon by name if you know it?

Secondly if i summon that same Demon over and over, could i level it up as it gains more power/experience?

Lastly, is there a way to send it back before my spell ends? ie go home and chill for a bit, ill call you when i need you.



There are a number of other things that im bouncing around but those are the big ones right now.

PS - Then there is the whole Drizzit/panther thing that keeps coming up, what level would i have to be to be able to bind a demon to something (stone idol) to be able to summon and dismiss at will?
Is that mostly just fun for books but not real in DnD or?


Thanks all!

[JackPhoenix]

First and foremost, can you summon a demon by name if you know it?

Not by RAW. You only pick the demon's type, you don't get to choose a specific demon.


Secondly if i summon that same Demon over and over, could i level it up as it gains more power/experience?

Up to the GM, but RAW, no.


Lastly, is there a way to send it back before my spell ends? ie go home and chill for a bit, ill call you when i need you.

You can stop concentrating before the duration expires, but the demon will stick around for 1d6 extra rounds. Banishment works, assuming it fails the save.



PS - Then there is the whole Drizzit/panther thing that keeps coming up, what level would i have to be to be able to bind a demon to something (stone idol) to be able to summon and dismiss at will?
Is that mostly just fun for books but not real in DnD or?!

Whatever the GM says. There's no real way to do that RAW.

[hitchhike79]

Not by RAW. You only pick the demon's type, you don't get to choose a specific demon.



Up to the GM, but RAW, no.



You can stop concentrating before the duration expires, but the demon will stick around for 1d6 extra rounds. Banishment works, assuming it fails the save.




Whatever the GM says. There's no real way to do that RAW.







Thats what i had assumed would be the answer with most of this, depending on DM.

The Planar Binding spell just got me thinking out of the box. You technically with enough gems and time could get one hell of an army of Demons it seems.

[Satori01]

The downside to Planar Binding is that it extends the duration of the spell you used to summon the Fey, Fiend, or Elemental in the first place.

So using Summon Greater Demon in conjunction with the Planar Binding spell results in, your Concentration being occupied by the now 24 hour Summon Greater Demon.

The best circumstance is having another spell caster cast the initial summoning spell.

Now when Tasha's comes out and the Feats are available...take the feat that gives Metamagic...Extend...to have a 2 hour Magic Circle from one cast.

Babau demons are pretty nice, and have only a +1 CHA.
Hopefully your character speaks abyssal.

[Gonk]

Not by RAW. You only pick the demon's type, you don't get to choose a specific demon.


However, you could summon a specific devil with Infernal Calling if you have the devil's talisman. I have no idea how to get one.


If you possess an individual devil's talisman, you can summon that devil if it is of the appropriate challenge rating plus 1, and it obeys all your commands, with no Charisma checks required.

[Corran]

So using Summon Greater Demon in conjunction with the Planar Binding spell results in, your Concentration being occupied by the now 24 hour Summon Greater Demon.
This is not correct. Planar binding says that the duration (of SGD for example; ie concentration up to 1 hour) is extended to match its duration (ie that of planar binding), and the duration of planar binding does not involve concentration anywhere.

[Satori01]

Here is the portion of Planar Binding from the PHB:
If the creature was summoned or created by another spell, that spell's duration is extended to match the duration
of this spell.

The duration of a Planar Binding is 24 hours. SGD requires Concentration..GSD now has a duration equal to that of Planar Binding.

The design intent seems to be:
-Casting a Spell to Summon a Fey, Fiend or Elemental, and then extending the summoning by using Planar Binding is going to subject you to the same Concentration requirements as the initial summoning spell.

-Subdue/Negotiate with a Fey, Fiend, or Elemental that was not summoned by yourself, and find a way to restrain said creature for the hour to cast Planar Binding, and there are no Concentration issues.

[Corran]

The duration of a Planar Binding is 24 hours. SGD requires Concentration..GSD now has a duration equal to that of Planar Binding.
RAW, concentration is part of the spell's duration and not a separate clause/condition. So when you replace the duration, you cannot assume that concentration stays or goes away. It can go or stay, depending on what the new duration (with which you replaced the old one) specifies.

[Satori01]

The confusion lies in the verbiage "extend and match".

If Planar Binding stated : "replace and match" then no ambiguity would exist and the interpretation you provided would be unquestionably the correct and only one.

Given the fact that one could upcast Planar Binding to last a year, lends support to the idea that the intent of Planar Binding is for the spell to be interpreted as "replace and match".

Being barred from casting other Concentration spells for a year is a tough pill to swallow.

[TIPOT]

Another problem would be casting planar binding requires your concentration as it has a long cast time (which is why using a magic circle is normally required for planar binding shenanigans.)

[Unoriginal]

I have no idea how to get one.

Well you can summon a random devil and then force them to reveal how to get to their talisman.


Or summon random devils and see if they don't have any rivals they'd like to see enslaved by a mortal.

[hitchhike79]

My thought goes like this;

Upcast Magic Circle for 2 hours, Summon Greater Demon, Planar Binding how ever long you want, but at least 10 days.... check. One down

Long Rest, feed your demon a soul or two.... repeat above steps for your goon squad.



It really seems no different than the shenanigans Necromancers get into with the juggling of undead, just a bit more costly.

Planar Binding says nothing about needing to maintain spells, the Planar Binding spell extends the spells for the duration of the creation or summoning.
It makes no sense that you can summon something and then need to maintain concentration for a year and a day with Planar Binding.
I understand there are so many RAW lawyers out there but this is common sense.


While i may not be able to do my original best buddy Demon pal plan, making a fun demon army to unleash sounds like it might be a fun way to wreck house when needed.

[Bobthewizard]

It makes no sense that you can summon something and then need to maintain concentration for a year and a day with Planar Binding.

I don't think the extension of concentration is clear so I think a DM can rule either way, but the argument against what you just said here is that planar binding is not primarily meant to be a spell to bind magical summons. It is meant to be used against otherwise captured demons/devils/etc. and as a bonus, for summoned creatures it's a way to get a little bit more time from them.

[hitchhike79]

I don't think the extension of concentration is clear so I think a DM can rule either way, but the argument against what you just said here is that planar binding is not primarily meant to be a spell to bind magical summons. It is meant to be used against otherwise captured demons/devils/etc. and as a bonus, for summoned creatures it's a way to get a little bit more time from them.

If the creature was summoned or created by another spell, that spell’s duration is extended to match the duration of this spell.

How else would you get a minute to cast magic circle to "catch" anything to cast Planar Binding?

[JackPhoenix]

My thought goes like this;

Upcast Magic Circle for 2 hours, Summon Greater Demon, Planar Binding how ever long you want, but at least 10 days.... check. One down

Planar Binding has 1-hour casting time, which means you'll break your concentration on SGD. Unlike Conjure Elemental, the demon disappears after 1d6 rounds, not after an hour. It's not around long enough to be bound without multilple casters (and the timing on that is debatable anyway, but let's not go there) or using Wish as a shortcut.


If the creature was summoned or created by another spell, that spell’s duration is extended to match the duration of this spell.

How else would you get a minute to cast magic circle to "catch" anything to cast Planar Binding?

By preparing the trap upfront and then luring the victim inside.

[BerzerkerUnit]

Devs have stated you should be able to bind your summons. If not, here:
1) make magic circle
2) summon elemental/demon etc
3) direct summon into circle
4) cast planar binding

Alternatives:
Use scroll of PB
Use ring of spell storing for PB
Use gate and politely ask a god to do it.

[JackPhoenix]

Devs have stated you should be able to bind your summons. If not, here:
1) make magic circle
2) summon elemental/demon etc
3) direct summon into circle
4) cast planar binding

Problem with that approach is that the 1-hour long duration of Conjure Elemental ends before the 1-hour long casting of Planar Binding finishes. And the demons don't even stay around for the whole hour. While it may be RAI, and makes sense, RAW you can't bind your (or anyone else's, for that matter, due to the same timing issues) summons.


Alternatives:
Use scroll of PB
Use ring of spell storing for PB

Neither gets around the casting time.