Interesting builds making use of Gauntlets of Ogre Power / Headband of Intellect?

[Merudo]

The DMG suggests that in "High Magic" campaigns, new PCs at tier 2 (level 5-10) can start with one uncommon magic item.

The Gauntlet of Ogre Power sets Strength to 19, and the Headband of Intellect sets intelligence to 19. Both are uncommon items. Selecting one of these two items as the allowed uncommon magic items allows for some interesting builds.

For example, it's possible to completely dump the main stat of a STR/INT based character, and select a race that gives non-STR/INT bonuses. Put the Gauntlet/Headband on, and the character ends up performing as well / nearly as well as someone who heavily invested into the stat.

If I start with an 8 in Intelligence, then wear an Headband of Intellect, I end up saving the equivalent of 5 ASIs!

Another option is to start with a 13 in STR/INT, and put the points in other stats to multiclass like crazy.

I'm curious what are good builds making use of the Gauntlet of Ogre Power & Headband of Intellect. Here is one I think would be fun to play:

Headband of Intellect, Variant Human Wizard 5+/Forge Cleric 1: start with 15 STR, 15 CON, 14 WIS, 13 INT; grab RES(CON) and Warcaster as level 1 and level 4 feats. You can wear heavy armor without a speed penalty, you have 19 INT in intelligence, you already took the 2 concentration feats, and you can cast Cleric spells reasonably well. Wow!

Headband of Intellect, Shadar-Kai Elf Bladesinger: start with 17 DEX, 16 CON, 14 WIS, 8 INT; get Elven Accuracy (DEX) at level 4. With Mage Armor + Bladesong you have effective AC of 21, while having excellent constitution and good wisdom.

Gauntlet of Ogre Power, Half-Elf Paladin: start with 17 CHA, 16 CON, 16 DEX; grab Elven Accuracy (CHA) at level 4. You end up with 19 STR, 18 CHA, 16 CON and 16 DEX; nearly everything you do, you'll do well.

[togapika]

There's good and then there's fun...
I'd rather be some monstrous race known for their low intelligence who just happened to accidentally put on the headband and thus became someone quite unique.
Heaven help them if they ever take it off or it's destroyed

[Mikal]

One thing to remember is that any such build will require single classes only- the magically boosted stats don’t qualify you for multiclassing.

I’d actually use the gauntlets on a wood elf monk myself. Get some grappling goodness to go along with the natural racial dex and wisdom.

[Tanarii]

Ek or AT that dumps Int.
Valor or Swords Bard, Cleric with Divine Strike, or Bladelock that dumps Str.

Of course, one AM effect and you lose a good deal. Don't fight beholders!

[Yuroch Kern]

It is great for everything stated, just beware pickpockets and houserules involving item damage...

[LudicSavant]

Gauntlet of Ogre Power, Half-Elf Paladin: start with 17 CHA, 16 CON, 16 DEX; grab Elven Accuracy (CHA) at level 4. You end up with 19 STR, 18 CHA, 16 CON and 16 DEX; nearly everything you do, you'll do well.

Elven Accuracy doesn't work with Strength-based attacks.

Anyways, Paladins in general benefit quite a lot since it really opens up their ASIs. Eldritch Knights are prime beneficiaries of Headband of Intellect since they can get by with a dumped Int, but like having it.

[Naanomi]

The strength boosters are good to put on Beastmaster and Battlesmith pets

[Lunali]

There's also the amulet of health, setting con to 19 is nice for almost anyone.

[Mikal]

There's also the amulet of health, setting con to 19 is nice for almost anyone.

Yeah but that’s a rare item, not uncommon, so doesn’t fit the theme

[Makorel]

Artificers can replicate a Headband of Intellect, Gauntlets of Ogre Power and Amulet of Health. If you put your points into dexterity, wisdom and charisma by level 19 you won't have a single saving throw below +4, and at level 20 you add 6 to that. The only caveat is making it to level 11 with 8s in your primary stats. It's a really dumb build, but if you could start with the Headband then maybe it could be considered.

[Lyracian]

A standard Str 8 Hill Dwarf Cleric can use gauntlets for making weapon attacks. It allows them to make use of Divine Smite.

Dex based fighters can use gauntlets to wear heavy armour without being slowed. Dex based Barbarian can use it to have a high unarmoured AC and still get bonus rage damage.

[Unoriginal]

A standard Str 8 Hill Dwarf Cleric can use gauntlets for making weapon attacks.

What do you mean? How do they do that?

[Frogreaver]

Barbarian - You can start low str. Go 16 con / 16 dex and then proceed to max con. 18 AC unarmored by level 8.

You could actually make a non-hexblade blade pact warlock work.

It's amazing on clerics. Let's you max wisdom and still use melee weapons.

It's good on valor bards as you can focus on charisma and still have a great attack stat.

Allows Paladins to focus on Charisma first while starting with low str.

Good for any kind of wizard multiclass (13 int still is needed)

[5eNeedsDarksun]

I'm currently suggesting to my DM that he find some for my Sorcerer/ Fighter, as I went 16 (now 18) Chr, 16 Con, and 14 Strength. So far he's not biting. But it would help on the rounds I quicken a a spell and go GFB

[Iku Rex]

One build I'd like to play is the (base) Str 6 kobold Fighter Rune Knight (UA) with Gauntlets of Ogre Power.

He's a runty little guy, even for a kobold, carrying around a maul (or other Heavy weapon) big enough to make him topple over if he doesn't maintain balance. But he can often offset the disadvantage from using a Heavy weapon with Pack Tactics. In a serious fight he grows 10 ft tall, smashing down castle gates and wrestling dragons to the ground. Haug rune makes him hard to kill as well.

Multiclassing isn't necessary. But a way to get Enlarge/Reduce (on top of Giant Might) could be nice. Maybe War Mage Wizard. Or Armorer (UA) or Battle Smith Artificer. Rogue could also be decent, since he'll probably have a high Dex.

Possible feats: Great Weapon Master makes sense. So does Polearm Master (+ Sentinel?). Brawny (UA) makes him a bit bigger for a kobold, and the +1 Str is pretty much wasted, but allows even more impressive feats of strength. Shield Master is good if you go with a non-heavy weapon and a shield. Maybe Magic Initiate or Fey Touched (UA) for the Hex spell, though he'll be short on bonus actions.

(This doesn't have to be a kobold of course. Another Small race, like a halfling or goblin, would have a similar flavor. Or you could go with a Medium character and just describe him as really scrawny.)

[BloodSnake'sCha]

I like a wood elf monk with 2 levels of Bladesinger.
Shadow monk 14 / Bladesinger 2 is the really nice IMO.

Work nice with the headband

[JackPhoenix]

What do you mean? How do they do that?

Well, they wear the gauntlets, and now they attack with their weapon at +4 str, instead of -1.

[togapika]

Thinking about it now, what about a criminal mastermind?
You run the business and make all the plans whenever you have the headband on, making sure that nobody ever actually sees the boss. If you ever need to hide or avoid prosecution, you simply take off the headband and then you're just a simple Goblin because you probably can't remember or understand the plans you made when you had 19 Int. If you ever need to accomplish things without the headband, just write yourself very detailed instructions that are worded simply.

[Tanarii]

A standard Str 8 Hill Dwarf Cleric can use gauntlets for making weapon attacks. It allows them to make use of Divine Smite.


What do you mean? How do they do that?


Well, they wear the gauntlets, and now they attack with their weapon at +4 str, instead of -1.

You mean they don't pull one gauntlet off and use it as a weapon to beat their enemies into the ground?

Seriously though, it's quite the trick to use Divine Smite as a Cleric. Divine Strike on the other hand ... :smallamused:

It took me a second to understand the objection I had to reread like 5 times.

[Unoriginal]

You mean they don't pull one gauntlet off and use it as a weapon to beat their enemies into the ground?

Seriously though, it's quite the trick to use Divine Smite as a Cleric. Divine Strike on the other hand ... :smallamused:

It took me a second to understand the objection I had to reread like 5 times.

My question was because I don't see what in the Hill Dwarf Cleric allow them to make weapon attacks with gauntlets.

[Lunali]

My question was because I don't see what in the Hill Dwarf Cleric allow them to make weapon attacks with gauntlets.

Nothing in particular, the gauntlets just let them dump strength and still have a decent bonus to attack and damage with a weapon.

[kobo1d]

Paladin: Only 8 Str or only 13 Str to multiclass, can raise Cha/Con instead
Bladesinger: 8 or 13 Int for Dex/Con
Melee Cleric: 8 Str for Con/Wis, no need to get Shillelagh
Barbarian: 8 or 13 Str for Dex/Con
Arcane Trickster/Eldritch Knight: 8 Int for Str/Dex/Con

Monk: Very weird one, Gauntlets let you build a heavy armor and heavy weapon using Monk multiclass with 13-14 Dex that only uses the features of Monk this doesn’t disable. Imagine Shadow bamphing in Plate Mail, then doing two GWM Greatsword attacks that have Stunning Strike on hit. Can also do a “normal” Monk using Str via Tortle. Wis/Con

[loki_ragnarock]

Any of the proficiency in everything builds could stand to benefit.

V. Human, start 12 16 10 8 14 14, skilled feat. Take zero dex or strength skills, focusing on int, wis, and cha skills.

Bard 2/Champion Fighter 7. Prodigy feat, boost dex to 18.

Be generally good at most mundane things. Pick up Lore Bard next level, be good at all skills but one. Take fighter at 11 to max dex out.


You'll be pretty top tier at 8 skills with high dex and int, and pretty darned good at everything else. Takes away some of the pressure of spreading stats out.
I mean, you're not the best at taking hits, but that's not the purpose of the exercise.

[Merudo]

I like a wood elf monk with 2 levels of Bladesinger.
Shadow monk 14 / Bladesinger 2 is the really nice IMO.

Work nice with the headband

Arcane Trickster X / Bladesinger 2 works well too.

Alternatively, War Wizard 2 (+4 to initiative) is okay.

[BerzerkerUnit]

My Conquest Paladin 3/Abjurer 17 Build is probably looking for either of those.

The default build has a 16 Str/Int 14 @1 but Str never gets any better and the Int won’t cap until 19th so the headband would make the intervening levels a lot better, though I might just skip boosting it altogether and do feats instead. Sentinel, Warcaster, Elemental Adept: Cold, and maybe Tavern Brawler. Otherwise it’s just Elemental Adept and then Int all the way.

A lot of talk about the great burden of suboptimal main stats, I’ve found a +2 just fine levels 1-4 and you only feel the pinch at 7th and up. As long as you’re in the +4 range by 12 you should be fine from there on out.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Arcane Trickster X / Bladesinger 2 works well too.

Alternatively, War Wizard 2 (+4 to initiative) is okay.

I don't really like the war wizard(the initiative bonus is nice).
You never hit by one attack or need to rule only one save in a round.
I prefer to use my reactions for shield or absorb elements because they are in effect for the round and not for one instance.

[Spiritchaser]

One thing to remember is that any such build will require single classes only- the magically boosted stats don’t qualify you for multiclassing.


I agree that this is by far the best way to rule it...

but

I don’t remember any RAW anywhere to support this position.

Is there such a reference ?

[BloodSnake'sCha]

I agree that this is by far the best way to rule it...

but

I don’t remember any RAW anywhere to support this position.

Is there such a reference ?

I don't think that RAW there is anything that stop you from using the boosted stats for multiclassing.

[togapika]

I don't think that RAW there is anything that stop you from using the boosted stats for multiclassing.

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/642541013551083520

Jeremy Crawford: "The intent is that your base score, not a temporary score, has to meet a multiclassing prerequisite. #DnD"
Keith Martin: "No it has to be the natural score"

[Tanarii]

I agree that this is by far the best way to rule it...

but

I don’t remember any RAW anywhere to support this position.

Is there such a reference ?


I don't think that RAW there is anything that stop you from using the boosted stats for multiclassing.

What's your ruling on what happens when they take off the item or enter an AMF or Beholder's eye?

I'd have to say the most logical would be lose everything except the first class they took, class abilities, ASIs, hit points, everything. But that'd be pretty brutal if they were a a Fighter 1 / Wizard N. :smallamused:

[BloodSnake'sCha]

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/642541013551083520

Jeremy Crawford: "The intent is that your base score, not a temporary score, has to meet a multiclassing prerequisite. #DnD"
Keith Martin: "No it has to be the natural score"
That is RAI, not RAW.

What's your ruling on what happens when they take off the item or enter an AMF or Beholder's eye?

I'd have to say the most logical would be lose everything except the first class they took, class abilities, ASIs, hit points, everything. But that'd be pretty brutal if they were a a Fighter 1 / Wizard N. :smallamused:

What will happen to a paladin/sorcerer with 13 str after being hit by a shadow and reducing his str to 10?
Will he lose all paladin levels?
I see no reason in the rules for him to lose his paladin levels.

From what I see the stats only required to take levels in a new class.

So a a paladin with 13 str will be able to take a level in sorcerer but if hit by a shadow he will need to rest before taking the level because he will not have the stats for it.

If paladin had already had a level in the sorcerer class he will be able to take a second one because he already had a level in it even if his score was temporarily reduced.


Prerequisites
To qualify for a new class, you must meet the ability score prerequisites for both your current class and your new one, as shown in the Multiclassing Prerequisites table. For example, a barbarian who decides to multiclass into the druid class must have both Strength and Wisdom scores of 13 or higher. Without the full training that a beginning character receives, you must be a quick study in your new class, having a natural aptitude that is reflected by higher-than-average ability scores.

The rules have nothing about losing your stats.

[Tanarii]

The rules have nothing about losing your stats.
Well yes. That's because it's intended that you use the PCs permanent score. The lack of a rule on the matter of temporary changes to PC scores underlines that fact. No rule is written exactly because no rule is necessary.

[Aaron Underhand]

I played a lore bard with int 14 and a one level dip in wizard. I was very happy to get a headband of intellect on this charater for the extra prepared spells, and usable combat cantrips on a bard. He took moderately armoured, so asi to raise int was never going to be available. The impact on lore bard of picking your spells from second level up was immense in flexibility and utility (I did keep healing word at first)...

[Vogie]

Monks with Gauntlets of Ogre Power can take on levels of Barbarian to have some absurd combos
Barbarian with 2 levels of War Mage is already absurd, but with a HoI, suddenly it can throw Fire Bolts at a Dragon just as well.
Any lightly-armored class can add 2 levels of Bladesinger for a huge AC bonus with HoI
An Eldritch Knight could take HoI to ignore Int while levelling, or open up their armor options with a monk or barbarian dip
Similarly, an Arcane Trickster could gain armor bonuses by forgoing Int, bolstering Wis, using HoI and grabbing a single level of monk (or three, for Shadow Monk)
A great combo with Headband of Intellect is a GGtR Background and access to the spellcasting feature based on Int.