Thoughts on Homebrew Alchemy Class

[Barold]

A player in my campaign wants to play a potion brewing/slinging alchemist, but none of the existing classes lend themselves well to that build, so I've spent some time designing a homebrew alchemist class based on the wizard class. Any thoughts/advice on balancing or playability would be greatly appreciated!

The general idea is to replace wizard spells with potions and allow them to be thrown as a ranged attack at enemies. The wizard feature Arcane Recovery would be replaced with Alchemy, which would be something like this:

Alchemy: you can use an ingredient or a recipe to brew 1 potion/30 min
- Alchemical ingredients can be found from biomes, locations, and creatures (which the DM will plan) and can be brewed into ingredient-specific potions
- Ingredient uses can be identified with a Nature check
- Potions made from unidentified ingredients have mystery effects
- Successful brewing = DC 10 Intelligence check; if unknown, +5 DC

Additionally, the alchemist would have wizard cantrips but would replace known spells 1st level and higher with known recipes that could be used to brew potions. The number of known recipes would be equal to 6 + (level - 1)*2. The ingredients required for known recipes are assumed to be carried on the alchemist at all times. To limit the number of potions an alchemist can make at one time, they would have a potion belt/bag that could only carry a maximum number of uncommon, rare, and very rare potions. The number of each would increase as the alchemist leveled up, as shown in the table below. Other characters wouldn't be able to carry the alchemist's potions (because they don't have a potion belt).

Level / # of Uncommon / # of Rare / # of Very Rare
1 / 4
2 / 5
...
5 / 9 / 2
...
10 / 9 / 6 / 1


I gave the alchemist more uncommon potions than a wizard has low level spell slots because a wizard has more flexibility distributing spell slots among prepared spells. I foresee a few problems with this system (like what happens after level 10 and the fact that the alchemist must invest in Dex to hit but Int for damage), but I haven't thought of any good solutions. Thanks for any feedback!

[Old Harry MTX]

How do you menage the ranged attack rolls with the effects of the spells? I mean, if you have a spell that require an ability check, is this substituted by the ranged attack, or you retain both? And a spell that requires one or more spell attack rolls?

[MoleMage]

I've worked on Alchemy a few times over the years, and am currently in the process of expanding and revising my most successful attempt for the current Base Class Contest here on the forums (the Witch is a WIP though). In my experience, there are only a couple ways that really work.

Option 1 is alchemy as a distinct system from spellcasting. PF2 uses this and it's my personal preference (my favorite attempt at an alchemist uses it). Alchemical potions/what have you aren't spells in this version, but their own unique things. This will also require a complete new class using the mechanic.

Option 2 is that alchemy is just spellcasting by a different description. Use the exact rules for a wizard (or sorcerer, or warlock in a pinch), without major edits except possibly a new subclass. All of the spells are described as potions, or thrown bombs, or what have you, but they use the normal rules for spellcasting as they stand.

Option 2 is the easiest to implement. I don't recommend the hybrid choice where you try to patch new mechanics to an old class, or make special/additional rules for spellcasting while retaining existing spells.

It looks like you're mostly favoring Option 1, so I would suggest leaving behind the wizard trappings (especially Arcane Tradition) and just lean into making the new mechanic. Please feel free to steal and readjust any of the mechanics or formulae from my Alchemist here: https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-LJBFMVHSiOIKkrdkq8U

Just be aware that Master Formulae are a little too strong in that version.

[Grod_The_Giant]

A player in my campaign wants to play a potion brewing/slinging alchemist, but none of the existing classes lend themselves well to that build, so I've spent some time designing a homebrew alchemist class based on the wizard class. Any thoughts/advice on balancing or playability would be greatly appreciated!

The general idea is to replace wizard spells with potions and allow them to be thrown as a ranged attack at enemies. The wizard feature Arcane Recovery would be replaced with Alchemy, which would be something like this:

Alchemy: you can use an ingredient or a recipe to brew 1 potion/30 min
- Alchemical ingredients can be found from biomes, locations, and creatures (which the DM will plan) and can be brewed into ingredient-specific potions
- Ingredient uses can be identified with a Nature check
- Potions made from unidentified ingredients have mystery effects
- Successful brewing = DC 10 Intelligence check; if unknown, +5 DC

Additionally, the alchemist would have wizard cantrips but would replace known spells 1st level and higher with known recipes that could be used to brew potions. The number of known recipes would be equal to 6 + (level - 1)*2. The ingredients required for known recipes are assumed to be carried on the alchemist at all times. To limit the number of potions an alchemist can make at one time, they would have a potion belt/bag that could only carry a maximum number of uncommon, rare, and very rare potions. The number of each would increase as the alchemist leveled up, as shown in the table below. Other characters wouldn't be able to carry the alchemist's potions (because they don't have a potion belt).

Level / # of Uncommon / # of Rare / # of Very Rare
1 / 4
2 / 5
...
5 / 9 / 2
...
10 / 9 / 6 / 1


I gave the alchemist more uncommon potions than a wizard has low level spell slots because a wizard has more flexibility distributing spell slots among prepared spells. I foresee a few problems with this system (like what happens after level 10 and the fact that the alchemist must invest in Dex to hit but Int for damage), but I haven't thought of any good solutions. Thanks for any feedback!
Thoughts:

Is this meant to be a wizard subclass? It sounds a lot like the old Artificer school (https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/UA_Eberron_v1.pdf) from... holy crap how is that five years ago?
I'd advise against trying to use ingredients as a tracking mechanism. It's really hard to strike a balance between handwaving "if you have a set of alchemist's supplies, you're assumed to have everything you need" and "hold on, let me dig through my spreadsheets." Unless the gathering ingredients thing is meant to be a way to expand your spellbook, in which case go for it-- that's a cool alternative to letting the wizard find a scroll or spellbook.
There really aren't enough existing potions to fill out a spell list--especially a full caster's spell list, and doubly so for a caster who can research new options.
A "potion belt" is... not a great solution for limiting how many potions you can have at once. Why do I need a potion belt only for alchemist potions, not ones we buy in a shop or find in a treasure chest? Why can't I make a second belt for the fighter? Why can't I keep a crate of backup potions in a cart?


I recently worked on an Alchemist base class too (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/hxQ8k8fd6), and took a lot of guidance from the Pathfinder version (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/). Things like "daily potion slots," "potions become inert after a day," "potions become inert when they leave your possession," and "repurposed spells as potions" are useful solutions to major balancing concerns.

[Barold]

Thanks for the reply! I really like the homebrew alchemy class you provided a link to. In the class page, it mentions Alchemist extracts/spells, but I don't see anywhere that lists the available extracts to choose from. Where can I find this? Thanks!

[faustin]

I've worked on Alchemy a few times over the years, and am currently in the process of expanding and revising my most successful attempt for the current Base Class Contest here on the forums (the Witch is a WIP though). In my experience, there are only a couple ways that really work.
.ñ

It looks like you're mostly favoring Option 1, so I would suggest leaving behind the wizard trappings (especially Arcane Tradition) and just lean into making the new mechanic. Please feel free to steal and readjust any of the mechanics or formulae from my Alchemist here: https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-LJBFMVHSiOIKkrdkq8U

Just be aware that Master Formulae are a little too strong in that version.

Finally! I can roleplay Varian from Tangled.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/45/86/28/458628ae23ff729c92c7860120d25291.png

[Grod_The_Giant]

Thanks for the reply! I really like the homebrew alchemy class you provided a link to. In the class page, it mentions Alchemist extracts/spells, but I don't see anywhere that lists the available extracts to choose from. Where can I find this? Thanks!
... ugh, that's my bad. Apparently I forgot to copy over the spell list when I updated to homebrewery. The original thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?616036-Alchemist-base-class) still has it.

I'm glad you like the class, though!