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sandmote
2020-09-05, 08:09 PM
This page on the Homebrewery (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/qvX4H4j3M)

This subclass is based on the Spirit Shaman from the 3.5e Complete Divine.

Druids of the Circle of Spirit Guidance maintain close contact to the various spirits of nature, working with them or chastising them in order to better protect nature.

Spirit Companion
When you choose this archetype at 2nd level, you can cast the Find Familiar spell as a ritual. When you summon a familiar, you can choose it to have the Elemental or Undead creature types, instead of the creature types normal for a familiar. Your familiar gains an additional feature based on the type of creature it is.


Fey You can choose to increase the Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores of your spirit companion to 14 if they would be lower, and your spirit companion learns one language of your choice. At the end of a long rest, you can replace the language your familiar knows.
Elemental Your spirit companion is tied to the elemental planes. It gains immunity to two of the following damage types: acid, cold, fire, lighting, and thunder. At the end of a long rest, you can replace one or both damage immunities with another damage immunity from the same list.
Undead Your spirit companion has a 30 foot fly speed and can can move through other creatures and objects as if they were difficult terrain. It takes 5 (1d10) force damage if it ends its turn inside an object.


Circle Spells
Your connection to the spirits teaches you methods to receive aid from spirits and guard against them. At 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 9th level you gain access to the spells listed for that level in the Circle of Spirit Guidance Spells table.

Once you gain access to one of these spells, you always have it prepared, and it doesn’t count against the number of spells you can prepare each day. If you gain access to a spell that doesn’t appear on the druid spell list, the spell is nonetheless a druid spell for you.

Circle of Spirit Guidance Spells
Level Spell
3rd Healing Spirit, Locate Plants or Animals
5th Magic Circle, Revivify
7th Dimension Door, Faithful Hound
9th Dispel Evil and Good, Temporal Shunt

Chastise Spirits
As an action, you can present your druidic focus and invoke the powers of nature to chastise spirits around you. Each elemental, fey, and undead with the Incorporeal Movement feature that can see or hear you within 30 feet of you must make a Wisdom saving throw. If the creature fails its saving throw, it is turned for 1 minute or until it takes any damage.

A turned creature must spend its turns trying to move as far away from you as it can, and it can’t willingly move to a space within 30 feet of you. It also can’t take reactions. For its action, it can use only the Dash action or try to escape from an effect that prevents it from moving. If there’s nowhere to move, the creature can use the Dodge action.

One you have used this feature, you must then finish a short or long rest to use your Chastise Spirits again. Beginning at 6th level, you can use your Chastise Spirits twice between rests, and beginning at 18th level, you can use it three times between rests. When you finish a short or long rest, you regain your expended uses.

Shaking Spirit
At 6th level, your spirit companion is strong enough to affect your mind. If you are charmed, frightened, or stunned as a result of failing a saving throw at the start of your turn, your spirit companion can use its reaction to grant you an additional saving throw against the effect causing you to be charmed, frightened, or stunned. If you fail this saving throw, your spirit companion cannot grant you any more saving throws against the same instance of the condition.

At 6th level, your spirit companion is strong enough to affect the minds of those it contacts. On your turn, your familiar can use its reaction to touch a creature within its space. The creature can immediately make an additional saving throw against one effect causing it to be charmed, frightened, or stunned (no action required). Once the familiar has used its reaction to grant an additional saving throw against an effect, it cannot grant another saving throw against the same instance of the effect.

Spirit Form
At 10th level, you can expend two uses of Wild Shape at the same time to take on a spirit form. While in spirit form you gain the following benefits.


You can move through other creatures and objects as if they were difficult terrain. You take 5 (1d10) force damage if you end your turn inside an object.
You gain resistance to necrotic and poison damage.
You are immune to the Charmed, Exhaustion, Grappled, Paralyzed, Petrified, Poisoned, Prone, and Restrained conditions.
Your unarmed attack deals 3d6 necrotic damage.
When you make a Strength or Dexterity saving throw, you can make a Wisdom saving throw instead.


Mind of the Spirit
By 14th level, the spirit in your mind has enough power to hold onto your spells for you. While you are concentrating on a spell of 4th level or lower, you can use a bonus action to transfer the spell's concentration to your companion instead. For as long as the spell uses your companion's concentration, you do not need to make Constitution saving throws to maintain concentration on the spell, and you can concentrate on a second spell of any level. You can transfer the spell back to yourself or have your companion end the spell at any time (no action required).

sandmote
2020-09-09, 10:52 PM
Okay, questions for the peanut gallery forum:


Should I add bonuses for Celestial & Fiendish familiars?
Is Spirit Companion strong enough given Chastise Spirits likely won't come up every session?
Should Spirit form grant HP in the manner of a normal wild shape?

Twelvetrees
2020-09-16, 01:17 AM
Looking at the original class and comparing with what you've done here, Spirit Companion expands upon Spirit Guide, Chastise Spirits is a pretty close conversion of the ability of the same name, Shaking Spirit corresponds quite closely with Follow the Guide, Spirit Form appears to be largely the same (with the addition of the saving throw piece), and Mind of the Spirit comes from Guide Magic.

I'm certainly seeing a lot more similarities than I saw when I first read this over. You did an impressive job of converting over a bunch of class features into a single subclass.



Looking over the abilities, my impression is that the subclass gets off to a slow start and never really catches up. Your questions on Spirit Companion and Spirit form only solidfy this for me.

2nd level abilities
Chastise Spirits is circumstantial, as you've noted, and Spirit Companion does not make up for it by simple virtue of being circumstantial as well. I won't argue that it helps quite a bit with the Exploration pillar and potentially the Social Interaction one as well, if judicious use is made of the Fey option to provide translation, but if one of your subclass's features can die, that's a circumstantial feature.

I also feel like the Undead option is just better than the other two. I'm having difficulty thinking of a situation where Elemental would be useful and Fey only apepars to be good if you need translation, whereas Undead is a clear improvement on how well your familiar can scout. Am I missing something?

To answer your question about Celestial & Fiendish familiars, I think you could just list out what options for type of creature this version of Find Familiar has if you wanted to exclude those two. They certainly don't feel like nature spirits.

6th-14th level abilities
I'm having trouble engaging with the rest of the abilities and seeing them as something to get excited about as a player because they are so passive. It's nice to be able to have defensive abilities and to walk through walls, but none of them grab my attention.

Double-concentraion with Mind of the Spirit is the exception. That ability is the one that would make me want to play this class - but I don't know if I'd be willing to play a character for 14 levels to get the one ability that drew me in.

Suggestions
I'd be excited to see what you came up with if you branched out a little more from the original design of the Spirit Shaman. I know you've taken inspiration from 4e before, so maybe there's pieces of the Shaman from that edition that could be used to change Spirit Companion into something more solid? That might lean a little too heavily in the direction of the Circle of the Shepherd, however, so maybe something along the lines of making the spirit more ephemeral and only have it manifest for very short spans of time.



Minor issue: Spirit Companion mentions 3rd level as the level where the subclass is attained, instead of 2nd.

sandmote
2020-09-16, 04:37 PM
@Twelvetrees That is one of the most helpful responses to homebrew I've gotten in a single comment. Thanks! :smile:


Looking at the original class and comparing with what you've done here, Spirit Companion expands upon Spirit Guide, Chastise Spirits is a pretty close conversion of the ability of the same name, Shaking Spirit corresponds quite closely with Follow the Guide, Spirit Form appears to be largely the same (with the addition of the saving throw piece), and Mind of the Spirit comes from Guide Magic. All Correct.


Looking over the abilities, my impression is that the subclass gets off to a slow start and never really catches up. Your questions on Spirit Companion and Spirit form only solidfy this for me.

2nd level abilities
Chastise Spirits is circumstantial, as you've noted, and Spirit Companion does not make up for it by simple virtue of being circumstantial as well. I won't argue that it helps quite a bit with the Exploration pillar and potentially the Social Interaction one as well, if judicious use is made of the Fey option to provide translation, but if one of your subclass's features can die, that's a circumstantial feature.[/QUOTE] This didn't occur to me at the time I wrote this, but circle spells look good to me now. In addition to shoring up low levels, it would let me convert over Blessing of the Spirits, Warding of the Spirits, Recall Spirit, and Exorcism.

Off the top of my head:


3rd level: Spiritual Weapon, Locate Animals of Plants
5th level: Magic Circle, Revivify
7th level: Charm Monster, Dimension Door
9th level: Dispel Evil and Good, Temporal Shunt

Not all of these fit the best, but Spiritual weapon and Revivify should be pretty good for a druid.

I also feel like the Undead option is just better than the other two. I'm having difficulty thinking of a situation where Elemental would be useful and Fey only apepars to be good if you need translation, whereas Undead is a clear improvement on how well your familiar can scout. Am I missing something? Note that the Octopus familiar option has the most hit points at 3. I think the undead option is much worse in practice than on paper. It is effectively "if your familiar ends its turn inside a wall it is reduced to 0 hit points," with a built in exception if you multiclass to chainlock. This makes sending your familiar into walls for exploration very risky. Useful for doors and buildings sure, not so much in dungeons or underground.

Elementals don't have many distinguishing features, so I figured they could get an immunity to some AoEs. Immunity to fire and cold also let them exist comfortably in extreme environments. 14 int/cha is also a pretty big improvement to saving throws and skill rolls. Less so for Wis, but its still there.


To answer your question about Celestial & Fiendish familiars, I think you could just list out what options for type of creature this version of Find Familiar has if you wanted to exclude those two. They certainly don't feel like nature spirits. For Celestial and Fiendish familiars, I'd rather only add on top a spell, rather than strip away any features. However, I'll exclude them from the alternate idea below.


6th-14th level abilities
I'm having trouble engaging with the rest of the abilities and seeing them as something to get excited about as a player because they are so passive. It's nice to be able to have defensive abilities and to walk through walls, but none of them grab my attention. What about requiring Shaking Spirit to use the familiar's reaction, but to whatever the familiar can touch?


Suggestions
I'd be excited to see what you came up with if you branched out a little more from the original design of the Spirit Shaman. I know you've taken inspiration from 4e before, so maybe there's pieces of the Shaman from that edition that could be used to change Spirit Companion into something more solid? That might lean a little too heavily in the direction of the Circle of the Shepherd, however, so maybe something along the lines of making the spirit more ephemeral and only have it manifest for very short spans of time.

Hmm. How does this sound?


Spirit Companion
When you choose this archetype at 2nd level, you can use an action to summon a spirit companion, which lasts for 10 minutes. When you summon a familiar, you can choose to summon an elemental, fey, or undead, which gains features based on its type. You spirit companion has a 10 in each ability score, cannot attack, knows two languages of your choice, has 10 (3d6) hit points, and AC equal to 13 + your wisdom modifier. You familiar uses your proficiency modifier and is proficient in all saving throws and two skills of your choice. If you spirit companion is reduced to 0 hit points it leaves early. You can only have one spirit companion at a time.


Fey. You can choose to increase the Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores of your spirit companion to 14 if they would be lower, and your spirit companion learns one language of your choice. At the end of a long rest, you can replace the language your familiar knows.
Elemental. Your spirit companion is tied to the elemental planes. It gains immunity to two of the following damage types: acid, cold, fire, lighting, and thunder. At the end of a long rest, you can replace one or both damage immunities with another damage immunity from the same list.
Undead. Your spirit companion has a 30 foot fly speed and can can move through other creatures and objects as if they were difficult terrain. It takes 5 (1d10) force damage if it ends its turn inside an object.



Minor issue: Spirit Companion mentions 3rd level as the level where the subclass is attained, instead of 2nd. Thanks for the catch.

Twelvetrees
2020-09-17, 12:02 AM
@Twelvetrees That is one of the most helpful responses to homebrew I've gotten in a single comment. Thanks! :smile:


:smallredface: Glad it's appreciated.



This didn't occur to me at the time I wrote this, but circle spells look good to me now. In addition to shoring up low levels, it would let me convert over Blessing of the Spirits, Warding of the Spirits, Recall Spirit, and Exorcism.

Off the top of my head:


3rd level: Spiritual Weapon, Locate Animals of Plants
5th level: Magic Circle, Revivify
7th level: Charm Monster, Dimension Door
9th level: Dispel Evil and Good, Temporal Shunt

Not all of these fit the best, but Spiritual weapon and Revivify should be pretty good for a druid.


Laying it out so I can see the parallels. Warding Spirits = Magic Circle, Recall Spirit = Revivify, Exorcism = Dispel Evil and Good.

Thematically, I can see Locate Animals or Plants making sense. I’m having more trouble with Spiritual Weapon, Charm Monster, Dimension Door, and Temporal Shunt. Maybe the last two are mean to represent you slipping into the spirit world and sending you opponents into the spirit world, respectively? Am I on the mark?

The first two don’t seem to fit. If I can make a suggestion, perhaps Healing Spirit would make more sense than Spiritual Weapon? They’re both quite good spells, so that feels like a fair switch to me. Other spells that come to mind instead of Charm Monster: Confusion, Guardian of Faith, Arcane Eye, Divination, or Mordenkainen’s Faithful Hound.

Considering the list of spells as-is and comparing to the Circle of the Land’s options, it seems to be fairly equivalent.



Elementals don't have many distinguishing features, so I figured they could get an immunity to some AoEs. Immunity to fire and cold also let them exist comfortably in extreme environments. 14 int/cha is also a pretty big improvement to saving throws and skill rolls. Less so for Wis, but its still there.

For Celestial and Fiendish familiars, I'd rather only add on top a spell, rather than strip away any features. However, I'll exclude them from the alternate idea below.


I hadn’t accounted for the Elementals being able to survive AoEs. That does make it more useful than I had originally thought. I’m still not convinced that bumping Fey up to 14 for Int/Cha makes that much of a difference. If a familiar has to make a save, they’re likely just dead. I suppose being able to speak a language could result in the familiar making more skill checks based on Int/Cha.



What about requiring Shaking Spirit to use the familiar's reaction, but to whatever the familiar can touch?

I like it. Certainly feels more active that way.



Hmm. How does this sound?


Spirit Companion
When you choose this archetype at 2nd level, you can use an action to summon a spirit companion, which lasts for 10 minutes. When you summon a familiar, you can choose to summon an elemental, fey, or undead, which gains features based on its type. You spirit companion has a 10 in each ability score, cannot attack, knows two languages of your choice, has 10 (3d6) hit points, and AC equal to 13 + your wisdom modifier. You familiar uses your proficiency modifier and is proficient in all saving throws and two skills of your choice. If you spirit companion is reduced to 0 hit points it leaves early. You can only have one spirit companion at a time.


Fey. You can choose to increase the Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores of your spirit companion to 14 if they would be lower, and your spirit companion learns one language of your choice. At the end of a long rest, you can replace the language your familiar knows.
Elemental. Your spirit companion is tied to the elemental planes. It gains immunity to two of the following damage types: acid, cold, fire, lighting, and thunder. At the end of a long rest, you can replace one or both damage immunities with another damage immunity from the same list.
Undead. Your spirit companion has a 30 foot fly speed and can can move through other creatures and objects as if they were difficult terrain. It takes 5 (1d10) force damage if it ends its turn inside an object.



With the addition of the Circle spells, this no longer has the burden of being the primary subclass feature, which makes it a fun perk instead. I think that works well.

sandmote
2020-09-17, 02:33 PM
Thematically, I can see Locate Animals or Plants making sense. I’m having more trouble with Spiritual Weapon, Charm Monster, Dimension Door, and Temporal Shunt. Maybe the last two are mean to represent you slipping into the spirit world and sending you opponents into the spirit world, respectively? Am I on the mark?

The first two don’t seem to fit. If I can make a suggestion, perhaps Healing Spirit would make more sense than Spiritual Weapon? They’re both quite good spells, so that feels like a fair switch to me. Other spells that come to mind instead of Charm Monster: Confusion, Guardian of Faith, Arcane Eye, Divination, or Mordenkainen’s Faithful Hound.

Considering the list of spells as-is and comparing to the Circle of the Land’s options, it seems to be fairly equivalent. Thematically, I was thinking of the attacks being made by a spirit, either wielding or taking the form of the weapon; Healing Spirit is fine. You are on the mark with your guess, as near the end of writing I figured Dimension Door was a workable translation of Spirit Journey (which is a weaker version of Shadow Walk that doesn't require shadows, so you don't need to pull out the book again).

I'll go with faithful Hound to replace Spirit walk. Thanks for the help again.


I like it. Certainly feels more active that way. I'll update it.

Twelvetrees
2020-09-19, 01:15 AM
I take it you ended up deciding to keep Spirit Companion as is? I wanted to clarify because it still leaves open the possibility of a druid summoning a normal Celestial or Fiendish familiar, which you had wondered if you should give options for earlier.

Minor issue: You've got two features labeled as Chastise Spirits (the second one should be Circle Spells)

sandmote
2020-09-19, 11:55 PM
I take it you ended up deciding to keep Spirit Companion as is? I wanted to clarify because it still leaves open the possibility of a druid summoning a normal Celestial or Fiendish familiar, which you had wondered if you should give options for earlier. Yes. I'm still torn on whether to add these options as granting mechanical benefits. On the other hand, something healing for a celestial and something poisonous for a fiend could still fit the main theme.


Minor issue: You've got two features labeled as Chastise Spirits (the second one should be Circle Spells) I have no idea how I managed that. Thanks.

Twelvetrees
2020-09-20, 09:44 AM
I'd be interested to see what you come up with for the celestial and fiend.

And if it helps, Find Familiar just reads as follows. :smallbiggrin:


You gain the service of a familiar, a spirit that...