Naruto X: Honestly it should be Boruto but, you know, name recognition

[Rater202]

It's been long enough that I don't think Necroing the last thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?478450-Naruto-IX-Epilogue-Intensifies) is a good idea.

I don't know what's going on with the Manga, but the Anime resumed a while back... There's too much anime for me to watch the whole thing, especially since most of it is carefully designed to not contradict the manga without permission, but the current arc has some drops about the science in the story so I'll be reviewing that.

It opens with Bortuo training by himself, missing the bullseye on his target several times with his shuriken several times and then accidentally cutting it in half and embedding his Shuriken into a rock on the last throw. He laments putting too much power into it, then Sasuke shows up, compliments him taking the time to do extra training on his own, and they get to talking.

Bort wants to rush headfirst into finding the organisation that we know to be Husk/Kara so he can find up what's with the mark on his hand becuase this is before the arc where they explain this in the manga.

Sasuke, however, says that they're going to take the time to learn more about the group's intent and circumstances becuase just rushing in will get them killed, and tells Bort to just focus on training and doing missions for now... Though he admits that he's not got much room to speak, since he left the village at Bort's age in pursuit of his own goals.

He gives Bort a glove to cover up the mark since it draws unwanted attention, and Bort agrees to focus on missions, then smashcut to him being disappointed by getting a simple "find the missing person" mission in the Land of Valleys instead of something more challenging.

They're joined by a college of Konohamaru who just got back from a years long missions to mediate in minor countries that are struck by conflict in order to nip things in the bud before they erupt into war. The guy, Mugino, is kind of an ass and treats Team 7 like fresh newbies instead of prodigies who defeated experienced ninja. It's not like Mitsuki knows a jonin level skill, Sarada can use four differant nature transformations, or Boruto hasn't fought and defeated gods or anything like that.

Boruto is naturally frustrated with the disrespect, but Konohamaru brushes it off stating that Mugino's experiences have left him a rather gruff person and not to take it personally.

They get to the Land of valleys and met the client, Mia. Mia explains that after the Fourth War, medical supply company opened up in the land of valleys and attracted lots of researchers, including her husband Anato. Anato went on expeditions to find plants and animals and stuff that might have useful properties that can be made into medicine, but he was supposed to get back three weeks ago and the company's search party hasn't found him and the company won't tell her anything in order to protect it's interests, so she hired Ninja to look for Anato for her.

They first go to the company to ask if there's anything they can tell them, but the receptionist tells them there's been no change and that even she doesn't know the details of the effort becuase the information is classified. Mia breaks down and makes a scene demanding to have her husband back. Mitsuki, being a good ninja, uses the distation to have a snake steal the information they need.

Also in this scene, we learn that the company makes a variety of drugs and prosthetics and that their founder was injured in the Fourth Ninja World War and founded the company to help people with similar injuries... But he's very clearly Victor, a member of Kara, so...

Outside they talk about how the company's secrecy in and of itself is understandable: Sarada points out that the pharmacology industry is cutthroat and rival companies will jump on any leaked information at all. Boruto points out that even something as simple as a secret recipe for a hamburger could be devastating if it fell into a rival's hands, and Konohamuru then goes on to clarify that if a particular drug is made from rare ingreiddiants like an endangered plant or something found underground or in restricted areas it could cause a lot of problems if too many people tried to get ahold of it.

Mitsuki then declares where the search party looking for Anato is, a location two days travel away at a waterfall. Mia explains that Anato had been there before, said it was beautiful, and wanted to take her there.

As they note that Anato should have been familiar with the area and the time it'll take them to get there, we note a ninja in the shadows listening to the conversation.

At the waterfalls, Team 7 is surrounded by ninja dressed in all black with what seem to be somekind of scientific ninja tool, or at least automated weapons, strapped to their wrists. It almost comes out toa fight, but Victor is there and stops it. Victor claims that he doesn't blame Mia, and instead claims, when surprise is expressed in his being part of the search party, that they were doing everything to find Anato and the others and puts the blame on someone not passing along the information to Mia.

(Knowing ahead of time that Victor is one of the bad guys, I can infer that this is bullplop.)

They get to talking, Victor goes into more detail on what his company does: While a wide variety of things are being researched, it all ultimate comes down to helping people who have lost limbs. He states that Anato's team was was looking for something that would be a great boon in recreating lost limbs, which prompts Boruto to mention his father's "custom arm." Victor, after it being clarified that they're talking about the Seventh Hokage, points out that the common man can't get things like that.

Victor names his ultimate goal as "regenerative therapy," which he claims is, instead of prosthesis, an affordable treatment that regrows flesh and blood limbs as well as the heart and brain and even extends human life, but they're missing essential components for it.

Note: In the original series, there were two things that did that. One was the Power of the White Snake, which is a power that the White Snake Sage gives anyone who earns the right to learn Sage Mode from her and in addition to giving one self healing properties was the basis for Orochimaru and Kabuto's "use snakes to pull myself together," "Shed my skin to heal all damage," "turn into a snake," "turn into a monsterous sanke," "turn into a dragon," "turn into the Yamata-no-Orochi," and, "merge my body with yours and eat your soul from the inside to get your power and extend my life" techniques.

The other was Hashirama Senju, who had a regenerative haling factor that apparently slowed his aging and, via experimentation with his cells, granted Obito, the Zetsu's, Madara, and the Nue increasingly ridiculous regenerative healing factors, gave Danzo tree cancer, was responsible for the creation of Naruto's custom arm, combined with being the host of the Shinju makes you biologically immortal.

Since we know Victor to be one of the bad guys...

Victor acts reasonable and shares what he knows: Anato's team was attacked and killed, but Anato is missing and they're trying to find him. Mia had provided a list of places that Anato might go, and cross refernaign tha t with places where eVictor and his Ninjas had already searched they're able to narrow it down to a single cave.

Boruto comments that Victor seems like such a nice guy, but Mugino says not to trust someone you've just met. Boruto calls him out on his paranoia, but he defends it as a habit that's saved his life in the various peacekeeping missions he's been on.

To his credit, when Bort points out that he just met Mugino, Mugino tells boruto not to trust him either. No exceptions... Which actually kind of undermines the lesson he's trying to teach.

And then it turns out that cave is full of what looks like twisted roots and junk... Yeah...

Anato is found on the other side of the cave in an area open to the sky. He's screaming, seems to be feral, his skin is a brownish grey, his muscles are bulging, one of his arms appears to be made of cracked grey wood, and his arms are super stretchy. He attacks upon being found.

Next episode... The Hashirama Cell.

God damn it. How did they even?

That got a bit more inddepth than usual for me so I'm gonna leave it here for now.

[LaZodiac]

The current manga chapter is actually fairly... alright. It featured a cool callback to when Naruto was a good series, where Sasuke throws a child disguised as a giant shuriken at someone.

The unfortunate problem of all the action going on in the manga is that we're firmly at the point where "okay so we know for SURE they can't win HERE because of how the series opened with a scene of Boruto flashing back to what started all this". We do however learn why Boruto has a missing nin bandana; he lost his and feels he needs one so he asked for Sasuke's only missing nin one. Feels a bit cop out-y, but makes sense.

[Rater202]

The current manga chapter is actually fairly... alright. It featured a cool callback to when Naruto was a good series, where Sasuke throws a child disguised as a giant shuriken at someone.

The unfortunate problem of all the action going on in the manga is that we're firmly at the point where "okay so we know for SURE they can't win HERE because of how the series opened with a scene of Boruto flashing back to what started all this". We do however learn why Boruto has a missing nin bandana; he lost his and feels he needs one so he asked for Sasuke's only missing-nin one. Feels a bit cop out, but makes sense.

I'm gonna be honest, that sounds like a recipe for being attacked by any two-bit bounty hunter looking to make some quick cash by turning in a missing-nin's head.

[LaZodiac]

I'm gonna be honest, that sounds like a recipe for being attacked by any two-bit bounty hunter looking to make some quick cash by turning in a missing-nin's head.

Oh absolutely, but right now they're busy fighting an alien space rabbit man with the power to shrink things with his eyes, but only non organic things. They teleported him out to the abandoned quarry district from Power Rangers so they can go full throttle. Not much chance of random bounty hunters :smallamused:

[Rater202]

Something I want to see: We know that Bort has a Dojutsu and that he's eventually going to be able to activate it at will.

We know that vastly enhanced vision is a standard feature of most dojutsu.

I want Bort to unlock his "Jougan" and for Sasuke, who is mentoring Bort in addition to Bort's official sensei, to teach him the Chidori and it's variations once he has the visual ability needed to use it.

Not, so that Bort can stab people with lightning... But becuase Boruto's unique Rasengan variation, the "vanishing" Rasengan which can be thrown without the need for sAge Chakra and turns invisible midflight, is based on a subconscious application of Lightning Release, and Lightning Release is confirmed to be Bort's affinity element.

The Chidori was born from a failed attempt to combine lightning release with the Rasengan, so learning the Chidori would be an interesting "first step" in mastering and perfecting the lightning release Rasengan.

Also, symbolically, Boruto, especially in the anime, makes big deal about how remorseful Sasuke is for his actions and the lengths he goes to to atone for them... And, when he realizes that those lengths are hurting his family, atoning for that.

Sasuke's signature move being combined with Naruto's would be the ultimate sign of their reconlliation

[Kantaki]

The current manga chapter is actually fairly... alright. It featured a cool callback to when Naruto was a good series, where Sasuke throws a child disguised as a giant shuriken at someone.

The unfortunate problem of all the action going on in the manga is that we're firmly at the point where "okay so we know for SURE they can't win HERE because of how the series opened with a scene of Boruto flashing back to what started all this". We do however learn why Boruto has a missing nin bandana; he lost his and feels he needs one so he asked for Sasuke's only missing nin one. Feels a bit cop out-y, but makes sense.

Wasn't the crossed out logo more a Akatsuki specific thing than a general missing-nin thing?
At least I always thought so.

I mean, symbolically cutting away your old loyalties when joining a organisation dedicated to overturning the established order- or whatever variation they sold you -makes a certain degree of sense. Displaying to everyone that you aren't backed by a greater power anymore just invites some random guys to shank you in your sleep.

Not that running around with one of the mayor identifying marks of a criminal organisation responsible for at least one mayor war is a good idea either.:smallamused:

[Lord Raziere]

Wasn't the crossed out logo more a Akatsuki specific thing than a general missing-nin thing?
At least I always thought so.

I mean, symbolically cutting away your old loyalties when joining a organisation dedicated to overturning the established order- or whatever variation they sold you -makes a certain degree of sense. Displaying to everyone that you aren't backed by a greater power anymore just invites some random guys to shank you in your sleep.

Not that running around with one of the major identifying marks of a criminal organisation responsible for at least one major war is a good idea either.:smallamused:

....Huh checked Zabusa, your right, he didn't have the strike through on his headband.

The weird thing is, he still kept the headband. marking him as a dangerous shinobi, and since he is a legend, that means people could heard of him and his big sword and put two and two together to try and shank him in his sleep anyways.

lack of strike through, not exactly guaranteeing stealth that and he was wearing the headband sideways like some bandit thus showing off he doesn't need to follow regulation anymore, thats just as bad as a strike through!

[Ramza00]

Goes to read the latest Boruto chapter and while doing so I see the burn the witch advertisement. Can I trust Kubo again? Has a nostalgic flashback to a few months ago about Hbomberguy in his hour plus video about RWBY which also talked about Bleach. Can I entrust my heart once again?

[LaZodiac]

Goes to read the latest Boruto chapter and while doing so I see the burn the witch advertisement. Can I trust Kubo again? Has a nostalgic flashback to a few months ago about Hbomberguy in his hour plus video about RWBY which also talked about Bleach. Can I entrust my heart once again?

You cannot trust Kubo again. This run of Burn the Witch is four chapters long, and in three chapters the barest of minimum has happened, and much that has was not very good. the world building is a mess and the characters are all ass holes.

On topic; I hadn't realized the cross out was Akatsuki only. I also wasn't entirely aware Zabuza WAS a missing nin though, as well...

[Lord Raziere]

On topic; I hadn't realized the cross out was Akatsuki only. I also wasn't entirely aware Zabuza WAS a missing nin though, as well...

He was a missing nin, his backstory is actually more complex than at first glance: he actually intended to go back to Kirigakure someday and assassinate the Mizukage Yagura a second time and take over, thats why he was working with Gato: to get money to fund his coup. Mei Terumi didn't come into power until Shippuden after the Akatsuki killed Yagura. and he slaughtered the students during the Bloody Mist era as a form of protest to make sure Kiri's tradition/ritual of a student killing another student to pass their academy would never continue. Zabusa had good intentions, but all his methods were horrible.

[Rater202]

You cannot trust Kubo again. This run of Burn the Witch is four chapters long, and in three chapters the barest of minimum has happened, and much that has was not very good. the world building is a mess and the characters are all ass holes.

On topic; I hadn't realized the cross out was Akatsuki only. I also wasn't entirely aware Zabuza WAS a missing nin though, as well...
I mean, to be fair, "the characters are all a-holes" was a thing in Bleach, too.

Now, is it "only four issues" or is it "only four issues are out" becuase he said going in that Burn the Witch was a limited series and that he'd be playing Animal Crossing by the time the first chapter came out.

He was a missing nin, his backstory is actually more complex than at first glance: he actually intended to go back to Kirigakure someday and assassinate the Mizukage Yagura a second time and take over, thats why he was working with Gato: to get money to fund his coup. Mei Terumi didn't come into power until Shippuden after the Akatsuki killed Yagura. and he slaughtered the students during the Bloody Mist era as a form of protest to make sure Kiri's tradition/ritual of a student killing another student to pass their academy would never continue. Zabusa had good intentions, but all his methods were horrible.

I'm not sure if it was actually a protest, just that it stopped after he did it...

Though yeah, when judging Zabuza it should be noted that he was very much product of being raised in The Bloody Mist and he absolutely hated it.

[Ramza00]

You cannot trust Kubo again. This run of Burn the Witch is four chapters long, and in three chapters the barest of minimum has happened, and much that has was not very good. the world building is a mess and the characters are all ass holes.

On topic; I hadn't realized the cross out was Akatsuki only. I also wasn't entirely aware Zabuza WAS a missing nin though, as well...

I want to trust Kubo again, but I think the only way I could trust Kubo again is if he gains partners who compliment his weaknesses. He needs a discussion buddy who is better with taking raw unrefined ideas and help with the worldbuilding. Kubo is generative, he is not good at refining and stabilizing ideas.

Second Kubo needs an agent / manager whose job is to manage his editors for Kubo does worse when his editors are putting deadlines on him. Kubo gets into a depressive funk and then everything suffers. Likewise the agent / manager's job is to get a 12 or so issue buffer for Kubo does not do well with pressure.

But really I should not trust Kubo again, so much raw talent but without the right people to compliment him you get a product which is literally RWBY but with Samurai. SIGH

-----

Back to Naruto / Boruto. So I think we have inconsistent worldbuilding with the Forehead Protectors with the manga, anime (with filler), and so on with 20 years of stories and thus lore.

That said if we were to synthesize the contradictions missing nins can wear the headband, abandon the headband, or wear it with the horizontal scratch out mark.

The people who wear it still have pride in their nation-state, they have pride in the system and thus do not see themselves as separate individuals in the greater "cosmos / kosmos" (like universal cosmopolitans.) Likewise Akatsuki and other people with cross out headbands are specifically rejecting the system in some way. They either want to build a new system, or they have trauma and thus this new headband is a form of oppositional pride.

Pride seems to be tied with the headbands, it is way more than a bumpers sticker, it is a symbol of identification and thus identity.

From a meta standpoint outside of the story instead of an internal in story justification ... outside the story the headbands make it easier to identify the various ninja on the page and their allegiances in case there is a chaotic battle, or there is new people you are not familiar with. Likewise we also have Masashi Kishimoto comments that originally Naruto was to keep on wearing googles as an identification mark but it was too much work and detail and thus the headbands were invented. This parallels Part 1 / Part 2 developments with Naruto vs Naruto Shippuden. All of the characters after the timeskip have streamlined designs to make it easier to do art with less detail and thus faster to turn out / less stressful to turn out. And when we got to the war arc the universal uniforms likewise was a time saving design change. I complain about these types of art changes yet simultaneously I sympathize with the artists / authors for they are trying to extract so much work out of a single person or a team of people due to how cut-throat the manga industry is financially wise. You do not make money unless you get an anime and even then you may not make money. Thus the whole environment is designed to break writers / authors for there is a financial chokepoint, aspirational young people who need to form relationships with organizations who see them as widgets, until they become successful and the relationship changes.

[Rater202]

God freaking damn it. Hashirama's cells are like Hela, arne't they?

Anyway, Anato is compleltly out of his mind and attacking everyone. Boruto doesn't want to fight back and risk hurting him, since bringing him back in one piece is literally their mission. Mugino mocks Bort as a softy for not wanting to hurt the guy they're hear to rescue if they don't have to. From now on, Mugino shall be known as "Jackass."

Konohamaru takes Bort's side however, and he and Bouto use a fuinjutsu to try and restrain Anato, but Anato breaks out and attacks Boruto. Mitsuki comes in wih the Save, howver, bding Anato with Many Shadow Snake Hands. One of the summoned snakes bites Anato and Anato's flesh breaks off and crumbles with the sound of splintering wood

There is absolutely no chance that Anato doesn't have infectious Tree Cancer.

Once Team 7 finally has Anato cornered, he gets struck by lightning. Victor's Ninja are equipped with scientific ninja tools that let them shoot blasts of electricity out of their hands and they're all spamming it on Anato.

Victor reveals his true colors, yelling at Team seven, insisting that they're failure to restrain Anato in just a couple of minutes means that they failed their mission(not his call to make) and making moves to neutralize and contain Anato himself "as a company."

I'm pretty sure at this point that it's perfectly legal for Team Seven to kill Victor, since he's actively interfering in their mission to bring Anato back to his wife.

Konahamaru protests, but Victor insists that they'll give Anato "proper treatment" and forces them to leave.

No, seriously. Vitctor and his group are now rival ninja who are actively ineterfering in the completion of Team Seven's mission. It's perfectly legal for Team Seven to kick the old man's ass if he doesn't back down, then place sealing tags or whatever on Anato, take him to the Leaf village for mdical treatment, then bring him back to Mia when he's better.

Unfortunatly, despite admiring Naruto Konohamaru fails to do what NAruto would do(Kick the asses of Victor's ninja and probably make frineds with them in the process) and instead caves.

Later, Boruto is feeling down becuase at the end of the day their mission only ammounted to a man beign seriously hurt. Except that's not his fault, it's Victor for stealing the capture and Konohamaru's for caving.

...Remember during Pain's invasion when Konohamaru pulled the Rasengan out of nowhere and then flashed back to thinking that Naruto was teaching him a new Sexy Jutsu variation when he was playing out the steps to use the Rasengan? Remember when he was cool and funny?

What happened to make him such a lame ass?

Back at th plot, it's noted that Anato absorbed "the item" that they're looking for but they can't extract it from his body. None of the "data" from Anato's body is usable, so victor orders him killed.

Because he's the bad guy of this arc, remember?

And someone from the original Search Party stole "the item" and ran off with it.

Mitsuki somehow cought Anato's tree cancer. Somehow, despite having no contact with Anato. Unless the snake that bit Aato was generatedfrom Mitsuki's flesh instead of summoned, I'm not seeing how...

And Mitsuki has Jugo's Kekei Genkai. Jugo was infected with Hashirama's cells once and his bloodline just crushed them and used the building blocks to make more Jugo cells.

Anyway, they carry Mitsuki to a doctor in the area that Jackass knows about. There's just randomly a hopsital in the middle of the desert.

A man comes running out screaming that he's going to die if he takes anymore pain, and the lady doctor coems out saying she woulnd't let him die becuase she hasn't heard him scream enough while giggling sadistically...

And Jackass wants her to treat Mitsuki's tree cancer? Jackass is a crppy judgeof character.

The Doctor's name is Yubina, and Bort understandibly backs away when he realizes that she's the person who is gonna be treating Mitsuki.

A doctor who insists on paying double and hopes that her eleven year old patient screams his heart out during the treatment is a bad doctor. I don't care if she can completely heal a light scratch by squeezing it, that is a terrible manner for a doctor to keep.

"His body's been invaded by foreing matter. He should cream a lot when I extract it."
"What kind?"
"Who knows?"

Bitch he's turning into wood! Yubina you are a trash doctor and you are a trash person.

Cementing her status as a trash doctor, she asks if anyone on Team Seven knows medical Ninjutsu becuase she needs an assistant.

I am going to credit Mitsuki's recovery to Sarada and her "basic course" in medical ninjutsu and assume that Yubina's patients have all recovered from their injuries until now becuase they instinctivly forced themselves to regenerate to get away from this psychoatic quack.

Jakass treats tea seven like incompetant rookies, is willing to beat the crap out ofsomeone he was hired to rescue... But makes excuses for a former medical ninja who coudln't abide byt he rules and opened a clinic in the middle of nowhere. I'm pretty sure that tha tmeans that she is a missing Ninja and therefore a criminal.

She seems excited by th fact that Mitsuki isn't screaming and the primary reason why she's not letting him die is so she can see him writhing in pain.

And doctor Quack falls the hell asleep as soon as Mitsuki's better... Also, bad animation: The persoective makes Mitsuki look like he's eight feet tall.

No, bitch, Weirdo is perfectly mild for what you are.

Mitsuki is only alive because he's Mitsuki and the turning into wood is a side effect of your body rejecting the Hashirama cells. Something that honestly should;t happen to Mitsuki.

I find it concerning that Doctor Quack can recognize wood created wiith wood release but can't tell that a patient is turning into wood.

There's a little girl under a stasis seal in the back. She too is turning into wood.

Yubina refuses to let Mitsuki leave because she wants to study his body to make a medicine to cure the girl and the one sample she already took without Mitsuki's knowledge or consent isn't enough. Mitsuki seems okay with it, but the fact that she ddn't even ask is a red flag.

Team Seven is not pursing the Hashirama Cell themselves, to figure out where it came from, and Yubina suggests that they check out the Black Market since she's heard rumors of something super valuble changing hands soon.

The only Black Market nearbye, however, is in the Land of Silence: An entire nation of cirminals where Ninja have no authority.

Note: I'm pretty sure at this point that they could go back to the Land of valleys, take Anato, and bring him to Doctor Bitch to be cured becuase the Hashirama Cell is th eproperty of the Leaf Village. So tha'ts too was they have the right nd reason to ignore Victor being a bastard and kick his old, crippled ass if he gets in their way. I'm all for being nice, but come on. He proved he was a bad guy the second he had people use potentially lethal force against a sick man.

[LaZodiac]

I mean, to be fair, "the characters are all a-holes" was a thing in Bleach, too.

Now, is it "only four issues" or is it "only four issues are out" becuase he said going in that Burn the Witch was a limited series and that he'd be playing Animal Crossing by the time the first chapter came out.


I'm not sure if it was actually a protest, just that it stopped after he did it...

Though yeah, when judging Zabuza it should be noted that he was very much product of being raised in The Bloody Mist and he absolutely hated it.

There will only be four chapters of Burn the Witch, period. It's a mini series. It started coming out three weeks ago.

Zabuza is still unironically one of my favorite characters. I love his weird but still sensible design, basically everything about his fight, and especially how it ended.

[Rater202]

I'm gonna be honest, I have no idea what Hashirama is.

His cells are still alive even though he himself is dead.

They infect everyone they're put in and if you're not compatible they'll turn you into a fricking tree and might drive you homicidally insane if they don't kill you.

He could regenerate without getting older and putting enough power behind it, like Madara did, makes you functionally immortal.

Grafting them into people can make tumors shaped like Hashirama's face.

The majority of the power of the Zetsus is becuase they're infused with Hashirama's cells.

Hasirama's cells can absorb chakra from people.

Experimenting with HAshirama's cells let a root offshoot create a monkey-tiger with an eel for a tail that could turn into a ghost, suck the chakra out of people as well as feed on their emotions, and when one of it's limbs was cut of it would regenerate several more of the same limb before it eventually chpapeshifted back to default and existed in a pocket reality completly separated from the normal world(where other summons either exist one hundred recent in the normal world or in special places where the normal world and some other plane overlap.)

He has somekind of "God/Budda" inspired Sage Mode instead of learning it from summon animals.

And none of his descendants or other relatives have any of these powers.

We know it's not an Ashura thing, becuase Ashura had Senjutsu and an energy construct and Naruto doesn't have any of the powers HAshirama does... Even in The Last and in Boruto when Naruto's prosthetic arm is literally made of Hashirama.

What the Hell is he?

Incidentally, I am 100% convinced that Jugo and his unnamed clan are somehow related to the Senju, due to a combination of overlap between Jugo's powers and those of the Ten-Tails/Shinju/Ten-Tails Jinchuriki(The term "Seninka," is used for both the Sage Mode derived from Jugo's bloodline and the act of becoming the Ten-Tails Jinchuriki), overlap between Jugo and some of the things that happen with Hashirama's cells, and the fact that Wood Relase is all but outright stated to have something to do with Kaguya's ability to control and merge with the God Tree.

[Lord Raziere]

Zabuza is still unironically one of my favorite characters. I love his weird but still sensible design, basically everything about his fight, and especially how it ended.

You and pretty much everyone else in the fandom, given that the Land of Waves arc is one of the least changed in almost every naruto fan fic I've ever read. and I've read a lot of Naruto fan fics. like a fan fic covering the Land of Waves arc is so old hat, that its a fandom cliche. some authors will just skip the arc without changing it just to get to Chuunin Exams because they don't feel like retreading it for Nth time. I've read fanfics where they do actually give Team 7 alternate missions, but those are few and far between the ones that play it out.

Edit @ Rater: Hashirama is plot Rater. Hashirama is plot.

either that or a completely different alien species that somehow mixed with the Otsusukis who knows.

OR! Silly theory: he's actually Kars from Jojo's Bizarre adventure, who having the ability to manipulate DNa and create life without reproduction from himself who after an eternity of frozen in space, crash lands on Naruto world, undergoes a redemption arc and falls in love with Mito and decides to give up all his godlike power to live a normal life with her, but his cells don't stop mutating or trying to be ultiamte life form even when he is gone and thus makes all this stuff happen

Or more seriously:
Hashirama is connected to the god tree right? and the Tailed Beasts are basically little god trees right? and they're immortal, split into smaller pieces that still live and empower others, right? and their chakra drive people homicidally insane sometimes, right?

so maybe....hear me out on this one.....Hashirama is something similar to a tailed beast? like some weird human-tailed beast god tree hybrid? its out there I know, but he has a lot of similarities to a tailed beast.

[Rater202]

You and pretty much everyone else in the fandom, given that the Land of Waves arc is one of the least changed in almost every naruto fan fic I've ever read. and I've read a lot of Naruto fan fics. like a fan fic covering the Land of Waves arc is so old hat, that its a fandom cliche. some authors will just skip the arc without changing it just to get to Chuunin Exams because they don't feel like retreading it for Nth time. I've read fanfics where they do actually give Team 7 alternate missions, but those are few and far between the ones that play it out.

Edit @ Rater: Hashirama is plot Rater. Hashirama is plot.

either that or a completely different alien species that somehow mixed with the Otsusukis who knows.

OR! Silly theory: he's actually Kars from Jojo's Bizarre adventure, who having the ability to manipulate DNa and create life without reproduction from himself who after an eternity of frozen in space, crash lands on Naruto world, undergoes a redemption arc and falls in love with Mito and decides to give up all his godlike power to live a normal life with her, but his cells don't stop mutating or trying to be ultiamte life form even when he is gone and thus makes all this stuff happen

Or more seriously:
Hashirama is connected to the god tree right? and the Tailed Beasts are basically little god trees right? and they're immortal, split into smaller pieces that still live and empower others, right? and their chakra drive people homicidally insane sometimes, right?

so maybe....hear me out on this one.....Hashirama is something similar to a tailed beast? like some weird human-tailed beast god tree hybrid? its out there I know, but he has a lot of similarities to a tailed beast.

All I know is that the Roleplay is gonna get really freaking weird if Senko gets her hands on Hashirama's cells or the means to recreate his unique biology.

[Lord Raziere]

All I know is that the Roleplay is gonna get really freaking weird if Senko gets her hands on Hashirama's cells or the means to recreate his unique biology.

all I know that Hashirama has more in common with a tailed beast, than a human:
-regenerates to the point of granting immortality
-parts of him still live when split off from himself
-is a mini god tree
-has the power to control an advanced element to a degree most cannot
-has incredible amounts of chakra, to the point of being able to fight both Madara and Kurama at the same time y'know, the most powerful tailed beast AND the shinobi who takes all five armies of the modern shinobi nations at once without a single rinnegan, its fine he's got this.
-his cells can cause homicidal rages
-has powers over tailed beasts no one else does

what does Kurama have?
-regenerates and is immortal
-parts of him still live when split off from himself
-is a mini god tree
-has incredible amounts of chakra
-his chakra causes homicidal rages in Naruto
-has the power to contact tailed beasts, a power over tailed beasts no one else has

what does Shukaku have?
-regenerates and is immortal
-is a mini god tree
-has incredible amounts of chakra
-his chakra causes homicidal rages in Gaara
-has the power to control an advanced element to a degree most cannot
-has a power over tailed beasts no one else does, the telepathy Kurama shares

Hashirama checks more boxes for being a tailed beast than he does not. Hashirama being something like a tailed beast or some human hybrid version of one, is the most logical explanation I can come up with for now. who knows, maybe he is super-intelligent cancer or something

[Rater202]

Don't forget Sage Mode: The God Tree's chakra feels like natural energy and bestows a Godlike advanced Sage Mode on its Jinchuriki.

Hashirama has a Sage Mode without anyone sign of having trained with an Animal.

Kurama's chakra is attractive to natural energy, allowing Naruto to rapidly refill his reserves of natural energy and mold more senjutsu chakra while in Kurama Mode, and Kurama is shown sitting down and molding Sage Chakra for Naruto.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Zabuza is still unironically one of my favorite characters. I love his weird but still sensible design, basically everything about his fight, and especially how it ended.

That's because Zabuza is awesome...hell, thinking back on it, it became a bit of a cliche that every villain has a sad back story but Naruto has so many good characters and villains in it. Zabuza, Pain, Gaara, Neji (when he was still a bastard), most of the Akatsuki, Orochimaru..

And despite that, Zabuza is still pretty awesome and made me so curious about Kirigakure, that I still consider it one of the biggest missed points in the Great Ninja War arc that the Seven Swordsmen basically got a single chapter to show 'yeah, these guys are awesome badasses and Zabuza is one of them!' with Kakashi saying he's going to get serious...then smash cut to all of them already sealed.

Seriously, WHAT?!

[Lord Raziere]

That's because Zabuza is awesome...hell, thinking back on it, it became a bit of a cliche that every villain has a sad back story but Naruto has so many good characters and villains in it. Zabuza, Pain, Gaara, Neji (when he was still a bastard), most of the Akatsuki, Orochimaru..

And despite that, Zabuza is still pretty awesome and made me so curious about Kirigakure, that I still consider it one of the biggest missed points in the Great Ninja War arc that the Seven Swordsmen basically got a single chapter to show 'yeah, these guys are awesome badasses and Zabuza is one of them!' with Kakashi saying he's going to get serious...then smash cut to all of them already sealed.

Seriously, WHAT?!

Yeah Kirigakure is whole village of missed opportunities in Naruto, to be honest: hey we know there is this powerful organization known as Akatsuki who want the tailed beasts and Yagura Karatachi is one of them. y'know the guy who supposedly is like the dictator of Bloody Mist? the guy Zabuza had a whole beef with? maybe we want to go and ensure his safety and maybe by doing so we can find out how much of a tyrannical dictator he is and a moral dilemma for Naruto:
-he is a fellow jinchuuriki who probably suffered hate through the years, but if he tries to punch some sense into him using his usual methods, that could leave Yagura vulnerable to Akatsuki taking him and Naruto both
-at the same time the people of Kiri are suffering because of his rule, should the actions of a terrorist organization really stop him trying to make the world a better place?
-but if he tries that would probably be a political incident between nations that could start a fourth shinobi war with other nations thinking he is interfering with Kiri's internal matters, how does he handle that?

Kirigakure could've been an important of his journey to Hokage, because these kind quandaries would be the kind of thing a kage has to deal with. instead 6/9 Jinchuuriki are dealt with offscreen.

and don't get me started on the fact that one of their "swords" is just an axe attached to a hammer. like.....seriously? it doesn't even do anything.

[Yanagi]

...and don't get me started on the fact that one of their "swords" is just an axe attached to a hammer. like.....seriously? it doesn't even do anything.

Kirigakure's marketing division are just as merciless and willing to breach norms as its shinobi.

The country has its own statues next on opposite sides of waterfall, except it's just the one pitch man that proposes merging Axe-Hammer Dude with the Six Swordsmen and had the marketing research to demonstrate that "Seven Swordsmen sounds better," and the other side is the review committee that just kept filing complaints.

[Rater202]

Can I say that I hope that the format for the Boruto "filler" becomes a standard in the industry?

The idea of actually talking to the people making the manga to make sure that people stay in character and nothing that contradicts the manga gets introduced? And like, actually expands on the characters and stuff instead of amounting to nothing.

Like, we all remember how Anime Filler turned Danzo from a well-meaning but narcissistic moron who tries to help the village by making "hard decisions" but just ends up screwing over everyone including the village into a mustache-twirling cartoon villain who openly commits treason? Or, related, how they made Hiruzen, a well meaning, intelligent, but at the end of the day flawed man who was too soft-hearted to make the hard decisions his job required of him into a complete and utter moron who kept Danzo around despite Danzo's open treason?

[Ramza00]

So new Boruto chapter came out last week. The fight continues and is not over...

-----

The way to fix Anime Filler is to fix the incentives for Manga and how they write the authors to death with tight deadlines, not providing them a staff, etc. Instead of seeing the manga writers as talent to be cultivated and give them a staff to help with the art, plot, etc ... which in turn allows you to create a franchise and makes it easier to sell anime, movies, merchandise etc with a more consistent product ...

they instead see Manga writers as disposable for there is so much talent wanting a few small amount of spots and thus the manga writers are disposable. Even though after when a manga hits bit it makes sense to change the incentives for the writers for that is the power of franchises. Points to the MCU and how Ronald Perelman saw all the marvel intellectual property in the 80s and compared it to a mini-Disney.

Fix the manga incentives and it is quite easy for the manga writer to subcontract and approve filler as part of a franchise model. The manga writer can now world build and create a consistent world but also create the main plot while other authors with spin off manga and anime filler can add to the world in approved ways. But you can't do that when the current Manga industry have the writers do 80+ hour work weeks and there is no backlog so if the manga writer misses a deadline the issue gets delayed.

[Traab]

The sad truth is, we probably like zabuza specifically because we didnt get much info on him. He is a legendary ninja, killed his entire graduating class, rescued haku and secretly thought of him as a child of his rather than a tool. Thats about it. Most of the other characters get 90 hours of backstory covering 5 hours of information just endlessly repeated as if we forgot what happened last chapter and need to be told again. Im especially fond of tsundere zabuza getting dragged along back to konoha because of haku but strictly maintaining his "Its not as if I LIKE you, b.. baka!" personality. (Slight exaggeration, but not by much, he generally gets written as despising having to acknowledge that he actually cares and threatens to gut anyone who suggests he does.)

[Rater202]

I think it was eventually established that Zabuza attempted to Assassinate ad Usurp Yagura and that's why he went rogue, so we might be able to infer that he was rebelling against the system that made people like him, but otherwise, yeah. Very much a mystery compared to others.

But that works, becuase Zabuza and Haku weren't really meant to be fleshed out characters. They were basically there to test Naruto's resolve and help him move on from his selfish/childish desire to be Hokage to force people to acknowledge his existence to his desire to be Hokage to protect the people who are precious to him(like Haku) and make sure that the practices that lead to situations like Zabuza's(who, on some level clearly regrets what he is) don't happen anymore.

In particular, the idea of helping someone, not becuase it's right, or becuase it needs doing, or for money, but becuase that person is previous to someone is a recurring theme throughout the series and it's introduced by Haku asking Naruto if he has anyone who is precious to him.

[Ramza00]

Zabuza and Haku are like Dracula, by which I mean they are "monsters" told in an imperialistic* type story. We never truly learn their motivations like Dracula. We see them as obstacles and we know they are human to some degree, but we only know the basics and the rest is shrouded in mystery. Just like the story of Stoker's Dracula where the only knowledge we know of his motivations is the first 4 chapters of the novel where Jonathan Harker is visiting Dracula for Dracula wants to do a real estate deal and acquire land in London. Harker later surmises he is a prisoner in the Castle after Dracula sets down his rules, and Harker barely escapes with his own life according to Harker's diary entries. We then see Dracula several more times but we never learn the "WHY" is he doing the things? Why did the people of the ship The Demeter have to die, why the stuff with Lucy, the properties, and later stuff with Mina? All we know is Dracula is a force of nature, a monster, and he may be a threat to the precious Victorian / English sensibilities of what is right, proper, and the "natural way of the world."

So much of Zabuza and Haku are shrouded in mystery. By design.

And that arc is a type of story about imperialism. It is about forces greater than the a 12 year old boy Naruto (or is he 13?) It is about the politics of Village Hidden by Mist, Village Hidden in the Leaves, Greedy Corporations such as Gatō, and to a lesser extent the preyed upon small nation which is the "Land of Waves"

The arc is meant to make Naruto and Company Feel Small in the Larger World even if they can routinely do magic with their ninja skills. It is to remind people there is a greater world and a greater rules and places of how the normal ways to go. Thus it is a "horror" story, and it invokes imperialism in order to show how these atomized individuals are like machines in the great conflict which is the nation-state of Naruto's childhood.

The only other way to do this is to start Naruto in a war but that would not work with the story that Kishimoto was telling. Thus telling an "adventure story" that turns into a "horror story" about OVER THERE is a great way to wake up our cheerful and naive child of the ways of the world.

-----

Of course the rest of us as readers want to understand the politics and the great powers of these forces shaped in mystery. Who is the Village Hidden by Mist? Who are the various actors and their politics? Why is X contradicted by Y when Y occurs literally 10 years later in our time and is separated by 450 chapters for we really do not learn more about the Village hidden by the Mist until The Five Kage Summit Arc. Meanwhile in those same 10 years we had 5 seasons of Naruto, 5 seasons of Shippuden, and thus we are talking over 220+ anime episodes.

[Traab]

Its also a way to demonstrate how naïve naruto is with his view on what it means to be a ninja compared to how the rest of the world looks at them and treats them, including his fellow ninja. It gives him something to oppose as well as stand for. The view that ninja are tools is anathema to him and he rejects it utterly. He spends much of the rest of the series following along with that general theme that they are all people and thus dont have to surrender to fate, destiny, politics, or even overwhelming force. While "protecting your precious people" is one of the main themes, its not the ONLY main theme and it all is started here in wave. Its honestly right up there at the very top for best arcs in the series. Its narutos first real challenge to his stubborn world view and the challenges only get worse from here on out.

[LaZodiac]

And also he has a really big sword and wears cowboy pants.

(I'm exaggerating but you're all just saying all the smart stuff already so I wanna point out that Zabuza's design is just actually excellent)

[Yanagi]

And also he has a really big sword and wears cowboy pants.

(I'm exaggerating but you're all just saying all the smart stuff already so I wanna point out that Zabuza's design is just actually excellent)

I liked the jauntily tilted forehead protector.

[Traab]

I liked the jauntily tilted forehead protector.

His hair suggests he used to be a protagonist but got it cut when he lost the title. (Its spiky but short)

[Peelee]

The Mod on the Silver Mountain: Raise thread! [wiggles fingers]

[LaZodiac]

I suppose since the thread is resurrected I need to talk about it; new chapter!

Naruto activates Kaioken and is Going To Die, but every hit shaves life off of Jeigan (I think I forget the villain's name). It appears as if Naruto is going to win! But then... the stupid happens.

It turns out Naruto, who needs every single scrap of chakra to beat this guy, did not turn off the link to Kawaki's artificial arm, draining him and also allowing Jeigan to find Kawaki and space-time jutsu him over so the bad guys can win this fight. Naruto is going to die in a very kinda stupid way and I. Am. Here for it!

And also we got news that since Samurai 8 sucked so bad it managed to get CANCELLED, Kishimoto is... returning to his roots and will be taking over writing for Boruto. So say goodbye to what characterization and development that Sarada had I guess- just in time for the dumb eyeball stuff to fully become the plot, too.

[Ramza00]

Does his best Orochimaru and screams, "Reaper Death Seal Release" followed by Edo Tensei

-----

So new chapters have dropped since last time we spoke. But also brand-new NEWS, we are going to recruit the souls of the living and bring back Masashi Kishimoto, author of Naruto, as the lead writer for Boruto. He is only 46 and has been working on Naruto products since 1999, thus 21 years. :smalltongue:

I will let LaZodiac tell me how good or bad Samurai 8: The Tale of Hachimaru was, the spin off different work he wrote on after Naruto (he was just the writter and not the artist so his work duties were less.) It only lasted 10 months prior to being canceled and quickly finished. That was in March 2020, so I guess returning to his old thing is his new thing.

I guess there is a Hokage reference her somewhere but which Hokage would Kishimoto would be?

[LaZodiac]

Does his best Orochimaru and screams, "Reaper Death Seal Release" followed by Edo Tensei

-----

So new chapters have dropped since last time we spoke. But also brand-new NEWS, we are going to recruit the souls of the living and bring back Masashi Kishimoto, author of Naruto, as the lead writer for Boruto. He is only 46 and has been working on Naruto products since 1999, thus 21 years. :smalltongue:

I will let LaZodiac tell me how good or bad Samurai 8: The Tale of Hachimaru was, the spin off different work he wrote on after Naruto (he was just the writter and not the artist so his work duties were less.) It only lasted 10 months prior to being canceled and quickly finished. That was in March 2020, so I guess returning to his old thing is his new thing.

I guess there is a Hokage reference her somewhere but which Hokage would Kishimoto would be?

Logistically speaking he'd be Tsunade.

Anyway the issue with Samurai 8 was that, you know how Naruto in the later years had a LOT of exposition about how things worked, and it was... not good, but was endurable because there had been years of world building and being shown this stuff that it made a degree of sense and was kind of interesting?

What if you had that from chapter 1 onward with no backing, and all it's all coached in half-understood video game terms because the MMO the main character played was actually made purely to train our hero without him realizing and also none of this is interesting and the main character is legitimately transphobic on top of being sexist.

There's a lot more technical I could get into on why Samurai 8 was such a waste, but I'll put in these terms that I feel are just going to be more damning than anything else; Samurai 8 is a series about cyborg space samurai fighting with mecha animal companions and I, I, ZODI, who will enjoy basically ANYTHING that is a combination of those things, found it IMMEDIATELY BORING.

They made SPACE SAMURAI CYBORG MECHA BATTLE ANIME... BORING.

[Ramza00]

Anyway the issue with Samurai 8 was that, you know how Naruto in the later years had a LOT of exposition about how things worked, and it was... not good, but was endurable because there had been years of world building and being shown this stuff that it made a degree of sense and was kind of interesting?

What if you had that from chapter 1 onward with no backing, and all it's all coached in half-understood video game terms because the MMO the main character played was actually made purely to train our hero without him realizing and also none of this is interesting and the main character is legitimately transphobic on top of being sexist.

There's a lot more technical I could get into on why Samurai 8 was such a waste, but I'll put in these terms that I feel are just going to be more damning than anything else; Samurai 8 is a series about cyborg space samurai fighting with mecha animal companions and I, I, ZODI, who will enjoy basically ANYTHING that is a combination of those things, found it IMMEDIATELY BORING.

They made SPACE SAMURAI CYBORG MECHA BATTLE ANIME... BORING.
Well that is unfortunate :smallfrown:


Logistically speaking he'd be Tsunade.
Hehe


Voice 1: Naruto is Finished! [Monologuing...]
Voice 2: SHUT UP! I'll Kill You Later.

In some ways Naruto 92/93/94/95/96 (manga 162 to 171) was the nadir, wait that is wrong word, Zenith of the Series.

-----

Seriously we are bring sub-atomic physics with Baryon mode into this :smalltongue: Baryons are a thing bigger than quarks but are still subatomic, Protons and Neutrons are Baryons (as are other things), but Electrons are not Baryons. Most forms of Baryons are unstable so we do not see them in nature.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baryon
https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Baryon_Mode

[Yanagi]

Nobody:

The Nine-tailed Fox: let me tell you about ninja nuclear physics

[Lord Raziere]

Nobody:

The Nine-tailed Fox: let me tell you about ninja nuclear physics

You mean the functions of his own body? :smalltongue:

[Rater202]

So I fell behind, what's this about ninja nuclear physics?

[Lord Raziere]

So I fell behind, what's this about ninja nuclear physics?

No idea. Tailed beasts are the giant reactors of chakra who can blow up cities and provides lot of energy, one assumes they're the analogue as they've always been, if there is some new boruto thing that is it instead, then its hot off the presses.

[Rater202]

No idea. Tailed beasts are the giant reactors of chakra who can blow up cities and provides lot of energy, one assumes they're the analogue as they've always been, if there is some new boruto thing that is it instead, then its hot off the presses.

Okay, looking it up: Apparently, it's completly literal, Kurama explains a power-up Naruto pulls out of his ass in terms of nuclear physics, comparing it to a fusion reaction.

[Lord Raziere]

Okay, looking it up: Apparently, it's completly literal, Kurama explains a power-up Naruto pulls out of his ass in terms of nuclear physics, comparing it to a fusion reaction.

So Boruto Era knows of that science. well given the tech of the world, its not implausible that they'd have that science, its just never shown.

[Rater202]

So Boruto Era knows of that science. well given the tech of the world, its not implausible that they'd have that science, its just never shown.

No, I mean...

Kurama. The big fox who pretty much just naps in Naruto's tummy or else snarks at him... Knows Nuclear physics.

Meaning one of two things: 1: Naruto studied nuclear physics at some point and Kurama learned it from him.

2: Nuclear physics has been a known thing since the time of the Sage of Six Paths and Kurama was either born knowing it or learned it sometime prior to everyone deciding "hey, you know those big god-beasts that Ninja-Jesus made to help preserve peace? Yeah, lets torture them and use them as weapons" While the rest of science and technology is nowhere near that level.

[Lord Raziere]

No, I mean...

Kurama. The big fox who pretty much just naps in Naruto's tummy or else snarks at him... Knows Nuclear physics.

Meaning one of two things: 1: Naruto studied nuclear physics at some point and Kurama learned it from him.

2: Nuclear physics has been a known thing since the time of the Sage of Six Paths and Kurama was either born knowing it or learned it sometime prior to everyone deciding "hey, you know those big god-beasts that Ninja-Jesus made to help preserve peace? Yeah, lets torture them and use them as weapons" While the rest of science and technology is nowhere near that level.

well y'know what they say, Occam's Razor: the simplest explanation is probably the correct one. Naruto studying nuclear physics is simpler than 2, because no matter how dumb Naruto is, he can still shadow clone his way through learning anything. but 2 raises a lot of unanswered sanity-challenging questions we don't have time to answer.

[Rater202]

well y'know what they say, Occam's Razor: the simplest explanation is probably the correct one. Naruto studying nuclear physics is simpler than 2, because no matter how dumb Naruto is, he can still shadow clone his way through learning anything. but 2 raises a lot of unanswered sanity-challenging questions we don't have time to answer.

For people who've read the chapter: Is "Baryon Mode" a name they give it in the chapter or does Kurama say "oh, yeah, that's Baryon mode?"

Because "Baryons" are class of dense particles composed of three quarks, such as protons or neutrons, that are consumed as raw materials during nuclear fusion reactions.

If Baryon Mode is a pre-existing thing that Kurama could have done at any time but didn't then that would suggest that Kurama's knowledge of nuclear physics is likewise pre-existing.

[LaZodiac]

For people who've read the chapter: Is "Baryon Mode" a name they give it in the chapter or does Kurama say "oh, yeah, that's Baryon mode?"

Because "Baryons" are class of dense particles composed of three quarks, such as protons or neutrons, that are consumed as raw materials during nuclear fusion reactions.

If Baryon Mode is a pre-existing thing that Kurama could have done at any time but didn't then that would suggest that Kurama's knowledge of nuclear physics is likewise pre-existing.

Kyubi could have done it at any time, he knew about nuclear physics in advance.

Also Naruto has NO idea what he's trying to say when he tries to explain Baryon mode.

So yeah, Rater is right, and Kyubi is a nuclear physicist.

[Rater202]

Kyubi could have done it at any time, he knew about nuclear physics in advance.

Also Naruto has NO idea what he's trying to say when he tries to explain Baryon mode.

So yeah, Rater is right, and Kyubi is a nuclear physicist.

The implications of this are...

For one, it implies that at some point people discovered nuclear physics well enough to understand subatomic particles and the process of fusion but then I guess the knowledge was lost(Naruto's not the most academic sort, but you'd think he'd have an idea of what "nuclear" meant if people were studying that.)

For two, it establishes that it's possible to consume chakra in order to make an energy that is more potent than the chakra consumed to make it.. Unless, of course, this is a power unique to Kurama, since it seems to be building on Kurama Mode.

Gyuki calls out Kurama for thinking that he's the strongest tailed beast, but it's been shown time and time again that Kurama's raw might dwarfs that of the other beasts and this might just be another example of it.

[Yanagi]

I'm just amused by the idea that the demon fox was secretly Richard Feynman all along and it just hasn't come up because everyone was too busy getting murdered with chakra to ask him some physics questions.

His plans for a Large Sharingan Collider will go unrealized, alas....

[Vahnavoi]

Boruto's whole thing for a while now has been Doing in the Wizard and explaining the Outsutuki clan as parasitic space aliens.

You know... after Naruto: the Last already revealed they had a magitech civilization on the moon.

Kurama knowing nuclear physics is not a surprise at this point. Naruto franchise has always had a weird undercurrent of science fantasy going on with it's mythical ninja bullcrap, now it's just at the front.

[Rater202]

I mean, the Otsusuki are never called "aliens," they're referred to as "celestial beings" and eating the elixirs they make from the Chakra Fruit explicitly imbues them with divinity.

Honestly, it's just that normally when Chakra stuff comes up it tends to be explained more... Alchemically if you will. Mix this thing and this thing together to get this thing, which can be mixed with this thing to get that thing, but oh it's not enough to just have this stuff, you've gotta do special training and be physically and spiritually healthy and improve yourself to improve the quantity, quality, and potency of your this thing and that thing, and if you're a direct blood descendant of these two guys and you of all their descendant's act or experience the most in common with them then you'll get some of their stuff added to yours and if you somehow mix their stuff together then that's when things get interesting.

There are hard rules in place and clear room for scientific experimentation, but at the end of the day it's clearly magic and there's a good chunk of symbolic logic and ties between the product and the physical and mental/spiritual wellness of the person doing the thing.

And then we get this, which is named after subatomic particles and is described explicitly as "what's happening is our chakra is being consumed as raw materials in a fusion reaction and creating a different but much greater kind of energy as a byproduct and that's why we're even stronger than when you use your Ninja-Jesus powers."

They got their real science in our magic-powered pseudo-science.

[Traab]

Since I dont read this comic I wanted to clarify, are they saying fusion as in the sci fi power production method? Or are they saying fusion like how if you fuse fire and earth chakra you get lava? Or if you fuse nature chakra into your demonic energy cloak you get the demon sage mode? Because it could be argued that those also are producing more powerful combinations than either are separately.

[Rater202]

Since I dont read this comic I wanted to clarify, are they saying fusion as in the sci fi power production method? Or are they saying fusion like how if you fuse fire and earth chakra you get lava? Or if you fuse nature chakra into your demonic energy cloak you get the demon sage mode? Because it could be argued that those also are producing more powerful combinations than either are separately.

They are saying "fusion" as in actual nuclear fusion, like wha happens inside the sun.

As The Nuclei of of five hundred million hydrogen atoms are fused together to produce the energy that powers and is emmited by the sun, so are Naruto and Kurama's chakra fused together to create this new not-chakra energy that powers Baryon Mode.

That is the explicit comparison Kurama.

and, as I've said, "Baryon" is a nuclear physics term.

So it's not even Sci-Fi power source, it's IRL nuclear physics.

[Ramza00]

I just realized something


https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/microheroes-dc/images/6/66/Justice_league_action_firestorm_by_stuart1001-darigl8.png/revision/latest?cb=20170405012211
https://bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/JusticeLeagueAction.jpg#main

So someday Naruto who is Firestorm will become like Captain Atom, and later Dr Manhattan, completing the Ninja Jesus theme :smallamused:


Just a reminder if you are behind the last 3 chapters are free on viz’s website. Please catch up :smallsmile:

https://www.viz.com/shonenjump/chapters/boruto

[Vahnavoi]

They got their real science in our magic-powered pseudo-science.

IIRC there've been references to genes and DNA since the introduction of bloodline limits in the Land of Waves arc. The sword Obito wielded was deliberately and obviously modeled after DNA double helix. (https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Sword_of_Nunoboko)

The franchise has had real science in its pseudo-mythological pseudo-occult nonsense since nearly the start. Now it's just being blatant about it. And physics instead of biology.

Also the Outsutsuki are totally space aliens. They were totally space aliens in the Tale of the Bambol Cutter from which Kishimoto ripped them off. :smalltongue:

[Ramza00]

While we are talking anime physics and magic with ancient aliens :smalltongue:

Can someone explain to me how Kakashi can breathe in, and say "Katon" and do a fire release spell and never take off his mask?

[Lord Raziere]

While we are talking anime physics and magic with ancient aliens :smalltongue:

Can someone explain to me how Kakashi can breathe in, and say "Katon" and do a fire release spell and never take off his mask?

well, we know that chakra can be formed and shaped out a ninjas body because of the Rasengan, correct? and elemental stuff can be applied to that chakra outside of a ninjas body, and that Kakashi knows the chidori, which is a technique derived from the rasengan.

Therefore Kakashi has experience applying a change of nature to chakra outside his body because of the Chidori, and he simply applies the same experience to breathing fire just, y'know, with his lips by blowing the chakra out first, then applying fire to it incredibly quickly. (and really if we're talking safety, thats what all ninjas SHOULD do involving fire release fire breathing, because I can't imagine having fire in your throat, mouth or lungs br any way good for their health no matter how brief.)

[Rater202]

While we are talking anime physics and magic with ancient aliens :smalltongue:

Can someone explain to me how Kakashi can breathe in, and say "Katon" and do a fire release spell and never take off his mask?

In addition to what Raz said, a cloth mask would do nothing whatsoever to stop Kakashi from breathing in or out.

[Traab]

As we see here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZI-uN5WMaEE), it looks like the fire ignites an inch or two away from the mouth. Thats how he can breathe fire without burning his mask.

[Ramza00]

Let me have my fun with the fire and mask comments :smallsigh: I was merely having fun thinking about how people need to keep their masks and cloaks on all the time and how the heroes never take them off :smallamused:


In addition to what Raz said, a cloth mask would do nothing whatsoever to stop Kakashi from breathing in or out.

Exactly!

[Rater202]

Now the question is: Can Baryon Mode be used in conjunction with Sage Mode or would that just be more raw materials for Baryonn Mode Energy?

[Lord Raziere]

Now the question is: Can Baryon Mode be used in conjunction with Sage Mode or would that just be more raw materials for Baryonn Mode Energy?

Well given that natural energy is just another type of chakra, it probably would just be more fuel for the fusion fire, I'd say. I don't see any particular logical reason why they'd be combined.

[Ramza00]

Well given that natural energy is just another type of chakra, it probably would just be more fuel for the fusion fire, I'd say. I don't see any particular logical reason why they'd be combined.

Most likely not impossible, most likely improbable for it is very hard to do.


Something something Aristotle in his Poetics in narrative drama, something something that I have forgot.
A ranting looney Sam Seaborn character from West Wing talking about Aristotle when he is surprised by the new narrative development of his story.
Me being Donna enjoying my cake, and offering the cake to Sam and Naruto fans.


DONNA: It's cake! It's c-a-k-e.

[Ramza00]

Something new happened in the December’s chapter, does anyone have thoughts? :smalltongue:

[LaZodiac]

I do!

I just... posted them in the wrong thread >_<

they're here now!

New Boruto!

Kawaki... genuinely just outsmarts the evil moon rabbit in a legitimately very good scene. **** yeah!

Boruto than reveals he has been Momoshiki for AWHILE and just ****ing takes out Sasuke's Rinnegan in one shot, improving the series substantially.

god I can't wait for kishimoto to ruin this good will the manga has instilled in me.

[Ramza00]

I do!

I just... posted them in the wrong thread >_<

they're here now!

New Boruto!

Kawaki... genuinely just outsmarts the evil moon rabbit in a legitimately very good scene. **** yeah!

Boruto than reveals he has been Momoshiki for AWHILE and just ****ing takes out Sasuke's Rinnegan in one shot, improving the series substantially.

god I can't wait for kishimoto to ruin this good will the manga has instilled in me.

So about power levels, in other words a nonsense discussion.


Sasuke with a single sharingan eye is what power level? Okay his rinnegan eye was the one who did Amaterasu, while his eye he still possess can shape the flames but he can not generate the flames. Can he do Susanoo? But is Susanoo useful against the main villains?

So is Sasuke kage level, above them below them? It doesn't really matter for he will be whatever power level the plot demands but I am curious on opinions. Could Sasuke beat a healthy Kakashi in his prime without Sharingan with Kakashi?

[Ramza00]

Thinking about how it has been 5 years of Boruto and there has been only 2 important developments in 5 FULL years. The rest of it has been filler and slow boil.

5 years!

For Comparison, the movie of Boruto came out August 2015, in that same week MHA is was on chapter 53 and in that chapter we had the Hero Killer Arc where Shoto had engage in the fight making it 3 vs Stain.

5 years! Nothing happened, sorry that is hyperbole, 2 things happened!

Next Boruto chapter comes out sometime this week :smalltongue:

[Lord Raziere]

Thinking about how it has been 5 years of Boruto and there has been only 2 important developments in 5 FULL years. The rest of it has been filler and slow boil.

5 years!

For Comparison, the movie of Boruto came out August 2015, in that same week MHA is was on chapter 53 and in that chapter we had the Hero Killer Arc where Shoto had engage in the fight making it 3 vs Stain.

5 years! Nothing happened, sorry that is hyperbole, 2 things happened!

Next Boruto chapter comes out sometime this week :smalltongue:

Unfortunately yeah, Boruto seems like an unplanned fan fic of Naruto's life after the canon series: a bunch of things only there for nostalgia or are slice of life stuff or just comedy, with very little direction about how to advance anything or where the author is going with this, it has a few ideas that seem cool but aren't explored enough because they are resolved too quickly. like say the Shinobi Gauntlet. something like this should y'know rightly be something that everyone is wanting to get their hands on and an example of how the new generation surpasses the previous, no matter how much Naruto the Hard Worker says otherwise or how useless it was against a single guy with an ability to counter it, like Naruto denouncing it should NOT have been the last word on that but apparently all the new tech to help defend the world against literal godlike aliens is in the hands of an Evil organization called Kara now, because only EVIL people would think advances in technology are good to use. Ugh.

[Ramza00]

New Chapter 3 weeks ago that we did not talk about at the time, and another new chapter that comes out in 9 days.

https://www.viz.com/shonenjump/chapters/boruto

And we get plot mechanics development where we understand better when A causes B and what the limits of the characters are.


So with the Loss of the Rinnegan, does it really matter when Isshiki (now dead) is the new power level?

Isshiki pulling a Rock Lee is able to bypass a Susanoo or a Kyuubi mode. We already know a 6th tails Kyuubi can defeat a Pain level Chibi Tensai. Now Sasuke pulled out 9 Chibaku Tensei including blocking the 8th tails and half of the 9 tails, but does that really matter?

Are we at a more insane power level or a less power level with Isshiki off the board and we now have other characters like Boruto and Momoshiki being the likely antagonist? (plus what remains of Kara)

[LaZodiac]

New Chapter 3 weeks ago that we did not talk about at the time, and another new chapter that comes out in 9 days.

https://www.viz.com/shonenjump/chapters/boruto

And we get plot mechanics development where we understand better when A causes B and what the limits of the characters are.


So with the Loss of the Rinnegan, does it really matter when Isshiki (now dead) is the new power level?

Isshiki pulling a Rock Lee is able to bypass a Susanoo or a Kyuubi mode. We already know a 6th tails Kyuubi can defeat a Pain level Chibi Tensai. Now Sasuke pulled out 9 Chibaku Tensei including blocking the 8th tails and half of the 9 tails, but does that really matter?

Are we at a more insane power level or a less power level with Isshiki off the board and we now have other characters like Boruto and Momoshiki being the likely antagonist? (plus what remains of Kara)


I have no idea how to discuss power levels because I legit forget who Isshiki is.

Anyway I'm also 100% sure I posted about this chapter but I must have just... forgotten, or dreamed it. Anyway good riddance to eyeball, Boruto now has to worry about the rabbit inside of him but we know a weakness (he can't take over as long as Boruto's chakra is strong, and you can bust his horns to push the USB out of alignment) and also rip Naruto.

[Ramza00]

Isshiki is the rabbit clan partner of Kaguyi, who was puppeting a human yet was ultrapowerful despite he was not at the full power. He is the guy who formed Kara.

[gooddragon1]

Took a bit of effort to complete, but that should do:

https://i.imgur.com/Pizgj9w.png
https://i.imgur.com/Eegvi0F.png

[LaZodiac]

New Boruto chapter!

Ooops they only put in the bad ideas again. .I'm so glad Kishimoto is back in charge. Soon Sarada will get to Do Nothing, as rightfully intended.

Also I'm pretty sure Kurama outright said that "they would die", as in both of them. **** off Kishimoto with your "I didn't tell you the whoooole truth" nonsense.

[Ramza00]

I liked this chapter. But maybe it has to do with me not liking demigod-aliens as the antagonist. One can not sympathize when one can not empathize, and a hungry ghost / asura / deva hybrid is just not interesting as an alien protagonist.

Now Orochimaru on the other hand is interesting for he is all those things and thus feels very human.

In sum the demigod-aliens are merely obstacles to be overcome, they are not interesting, they are just “there.”

[LaZodiac]

I liked this chapter. But maybe it has to do with me not liking demigod-aliens as the antagonist. One can not sympathize when one can not empathize, and a hungry ghost / asura / deva hybrid is just not interesting as an alien protagonist.

Now Orochimaru on the other hand is interesting for he is all those things and thus feels very human.

In sum the demigod-aliens are merely obstacles to be overcome, they are not interesting, they are just “there.”

You're genuinely kidding yourself if you think Code is going to be anything interesting, especially after they chickened out on Naruto actually dying.

Like, we know from chapter one that Naruto DOES DIE, they should stop dragging it out.

The other issue is that Boruto, from Chapter 1, has very much been a mystery of "how do we get to this point" and the more we introduce things not related TO THAT, the worse it gets.

[Ramza00]

I am sympathetic of a loser full of envy being the main villain either for now as a single arc or a long term villain. It is an inversion of Naruto and Sasuke much like the Red Lotus was like the Aang Gang.

Am I regaining hope with Boruto? The answer is no, I have complained several times that Boruto has had “years” to develop a story and still has done nothing. In the 6 and a half years of Boruto its parent manga did over 300 chapters, going from Issue 1 to Part 2 / Shippuden where Naruto is depressed for he just confronted Sasuke in the Orochimaru’s hideout, Sasuke effortlessly defeats the team, and Orochimaru begs for Naruto’s life reasoning Naruto and company are strong enough to defeat the rival Akatsuki duos which may be a problem for Sasuke and Orochimaru.

[Rater202]

You're genuinely kidding yourself if you think Code is going to be anything interesting, especially after they chickened out on Naruto actually dying.

Like, we know from chapter one that Naruto DOES DIE, they should stop dragging it out.

The other issue is that Boruto, from Chapter 1, has very much been a mystery of "how do we get to this point" and the more we introduce things not related TO THAT, the worse it gets.

I mean, technically they don't actually say that Naruto's dead, just that he's not there. Could be missing. Could be sealed away. Could have been captured by the bad guys and locked inside a giant Scientific Ninja Tool to use his godlike reserves of chakra as a power source.

[LaZodiac]

I am sympathetic of a loser full of envy being the main villain either for now as a single arc or a long term villain. It is an inversion of Naruto and Sasuke much like the Red Lotus was like the Aang Gang.

Am I regaining hope with Boruto? The answer is no, I have complained several times that Boruto has had “years” to develop a story and still has done nothing. In the 6 and a half years of Boruto its parent manga did over 300 chapters, going from Issue 1 to Part 2 / Shippuden where Naruto is depressed for he just confronted Sasuke in the Orochimaru’s hideout, Sasuke effortlessly defeats the team, and Orochimaru begs for Naruto’s life reasoning Naruto and company are strong enough to defeat the rival Akatsuki duos which may be a problem for Sasuke and Orochimaru.

I suppose that's true, but it raises the question of... what can he DO, exactly, if he's a failure?


I mean, technically they don't actually say that Naruto's dead, just that he's not there. Could be missing. Could be sealed away. Could have been captured by the bad guys and locked inside a giant Scientific Ninja Tool to use his godlike reserves of chakra as a power source.

All of these are fairly valid except for the last, since Kurama is dead so he's... severely weakened.

I just think it's a total cop out.

[Rodin]

You're genuinely kidding yourself if you think Code is going to be anything interesting, especially after they chickened out on Naruto actually dying.

Like, we know from chapter one that Naruto DOES DIE, they should stop dragging it out.

The other issue is that Boruto, from Chapter 1, has very much been a mystery of "how do we get to this point" and the more we introduce things not related TO THAT, the worse it gets.

Kishimoto chickening out on killing one of his characters? The devil you say!

*laughs in Sasuke, Choji, Neji*, Gaara, Kakashi, Hinata..."




*well, once at least.

[Rynjin]

You may as well add Kurama to that list too; it's been pretty well established that when Tailed Beasts "die" they just reform somewhere else an indeterminate amount of time later anyway.

[Lord Raziere]

You may as well add Kurama to that list too; it's been pretty well established that when Tailed Beasts "die" they just reform somewhere else an indeterminate amount of time later anyway.

pretty much. its basically pointless to fight tailed beasts unless you have a very strong seal or can vacuum them up into chakra like an otsutsuki. even if you won and killed it, which is highly improbable, the tailed beast would be back for revenge sooner or later and it'd probably take more than one ninja to do, and too many lives would be lost in the process of fighting one conventionally. there is a reason why we never had a tailed beast fight versus humans in the series, because it'd be nothing but desperate ploy after desperate ploy to buy time until someone can seal them up again. so basically a DBZ fight, but instead of awesome scenes of Goku fighting someone it'd just be them doing the Death Reaper Seal or something again.

[Rater202]

Was Kurama killed by using BaryonMode too long?

Becuase Baryon Mode consumes your chakra, your enemies chakra, and the chakra around you for use as fuel in what is explicitly compared to a Fuson Reaction: Tailed BEasts can't be killed becuase their chakra will just disperse and reform elsewhere and while they are self-sustaining and able to make more chakra Ex Nilo they aren't literally infinite in power.

If Kurama was killed by having all of his chakra consumed to fuel Baryon Mode then he might just be gone.

Unless there are still traces of his chakra elsewhere to serve as a seed, that is. Theoretically, if Naruto lives long enough Kurama might reform in him from traces bonding to the Kurama chakra in his body... Or might just inherit all of Kurama's power without the Kurama mind.

...Or, considering that Boruto and Himawari have whisker marks, and judging from Naruto's example that whisker marks come from pre-natal exposure to Kurama's chakra if Naruto does die one or both of them could get Kurama's chakra in a few years.

[Lord Raziere]

Baryon Mode is a possibility of true tailed beast death....but those are possibilities of bringing him back. tailed beasts are insanely resilient like that.

another possible way of "killing" a tailed beast would be to somehow tamper with their mind until it causes a death of personality/loss of identity, but thats not real relevant in this case.