Selling a soul

[Stattick]

Let's say you're a mortal, and you come into possession of another mortal's soul. There was a magical mishap, or they fell victim to The Void card from a Deck of Many Things, at any rate, the soul is in a portable object. And you come into possession of that object.

Now let's say that you want to sell said soul. What sounds like a fair price? Who would be interested in buying it?

Would it be fair to sell it for one or two of the low level Warlock Invocations or Sorcerer metamagic options or another classes low level class ability without multiclassing? How about a feat, epic boon, a charm or the like? Perhaps a pair of usable wings, Darkvision, or other racial feature?

Just wondering what sounds fair. Because there's an outside chance I might end up with someone's soul on a string in the next session. If it happens, I'm thinking about trying to sell it to one of the Arch-Fey we've dealt with.

[Amnestic]

I'd probably change it depending on the quality of the soul. "Good" souls being sold are generally valued more than "bad" souls. Likewise, "impactful" souls are probably worth more than "head down follow the crowd" souls.

Archbishop of the Church of Being Nice and Adopting Orphaned Cats is going to be worth more than Jim McThuggerson who spends his days harassing washerwomen and dockworkers for Pete T. Crimelord, ya know?

Trafficking in souls is usually seen as an evil act, since Good people would probably want the soul to pass on to its destined afterlife, though you might find a 'buyer' who wants to ensure a good soul gets to the right place and isn't snatched up by evil. Devils are the obvious one, but arcanists who want to experiment with souls might find a use for them too. And of course there's always necromancers, though usually they can find souls without help.

As for reward...like I said, depends on soul quality. But all your proposals sound solid. You could also aim for another subclass ability - example you're an arcane trickster rogue, and you get the level 3 scout abilities as your boon. If it was a really important soul, maybe even the whole extra subclass, but chances are if you're bargaining with a soul of that sorta level it'll have negative impacts down the line too.

[Unoriginal]

Let's say you're a mortal, and you come into possession of another mortal's soul. There was a magical mishap, or they fell victim to The Void card from a Deck of Many Things, at any rate, the soul is in a portable object. And you come into possession of that object.

Now let's say that you want to sell said soul. What sounds like a fair price? Who would be interested in buying it?


The biggest buyer of souls are the Devils and the Night Hags. Other entities might be interested in a specific soul.



Would it be fair to sell it for one or two of the low level Warlock Invocations or Sorcerer metamagic options or another classes low level class ability without multiclassing? How about a feat, epic boon, a charm or the like? Perhaps a pair of usable wings, Darkvision, or other racial feature?

Just wondering what sounds fair. Because there's an outside chance I might end up with someone's soul on a string in the next session. If it happens, I'm thinking about trying to sell it to one of the Arch-Fey we've dealt with.

Eeeh it's a big question. If the Archfey is very interested in the soul, they may be willing to pay that much, but I wouldn't count on it.

The section on soul-selling in Descent into Avernus indicates that even Archdevils don't usually trade Epic Boons in exchange for a soul, although they can trade one for a Charm or the effects of a Wish spell.

[AttilatheYeon]

The biggest buyer of souls are the Devils and the Night Hags. Other entities might be interested in a specific soul.



Eeeh it's a big question. If the Archfey is very interested in the soul, they may be willing to pay that much, but I wouldn't count on it.

The section on soul-selling in Descent into Avernus indicates that even Archdevils don't usually trade Epic Boons in exchange for a soul, although they can trade one for a Charm or the effects of a Wish spell.

they think big. They'll give epic boons for an act that'll get them a lot of souls.

[Unoriginal]

they think big. They'll give epic boons for an act that'll get them a lot of souls.

If they can't get that lot for cheaper, sure.

[Elbeyon]

In Descent into Avernus, a common soul sells for 100 gold. More valuable souls are worth a lot more. In the book, a pc can sell their soul for a legendary item or a true rez on a loved one. So, some souls are worth like 500,000 gold or something (using the magic item crafting in dmg as a guide).

[Unoriginal]

In Descent into Avernus, a common soul sells for 100 gold. More valuable souls are worth a lot more. In the book, a pc can sell their soul for a legendary item or a true rez on a loved one. So, some souls are worth like 500,000 gold or something (using the magic item crafting in dmg as a guide).

Not quite true. There is no set gold-to-soul ratio, it all depends on who's making the deal, and it's not really a question of "common" vs "more valuable souls".

A soul can be turned into a soul coin regardless of whose soul it is, and all soul coins are worth the same (although a soul coin can be a collector item if someone is interested in who the soul belonged to). How much a soul coin is worth is varied, though: you can spend one for three days of fuel, or to eat a fancy meal.

But deals can be made to trade your soul for a variety of things. Examples in the Descent into Avernus book include selling the souls of a whole family for some food, selling several hundred souls in exchange of living like a king for 50 years and being turned into a powerful Devil after death. Or you can indeed sell your soul for a legendary item and then turn into a Pit Fiend if you ever reach high level.

It's a pretty arbitrary currency system, which of course is on purpose.

[Elbeyon]

It is a bad idea to hide a more valuable soul in a soul coin if money is the goal. It is downgrading. Soul coins are meant to be used for trash souls. The type of souls as common as the mud they appear out of in hades. Souls are just not very valuable unless they belong to a rare, valuable individual. Valuable people like pcs.


Additionally, Fhert'Ahla acts as an exchange for soul coins, offering 100 gp in coins or gemstones for each soul coin delivered.


He charges one soul coin per larva.Z'neth sells soul larva for soul coins. A soul for a soul.

[Witty Username]

3.50$ or standard warlock powers, most likely fiend pact.

[Unoriginal]

3.50$ or standard warlock powers, most likely fiend pact.

Only fools exchange their soul for a Warlock Pact, you can get that for much cheaper than a soul.

Then again a lot of Warlocks are fools.

[Sigreid]

Only fools exchange their soul for a Warlock Pact, you can get that for much cheaper than a soul.

Then again a lot of Warlocks are fools.

Well, devils want to buy your soul and gods just want you to give it to them...so who's really the fool?

[Laserlight]

Last time someone sold a soul in one of my games, someone had used his first action to buy a copy of the Necronomicon and his second action to read it. Out loud. Since I happened to have a Cthulhu figure under the table, this livened up the evening considerably.
After much weirdness, Adrian offered Tom's soul ("he's not using it") to Dave. Tom was at another table and it was half an hour or so before he found out about this deal--but he didn't repudiate it.
What Adrian got in return was extra RAM for his microsheep so he could set off a eweranium baamb.

[Lavaeolus]

Well, devils want to buy your soul and gods just want you to give it to them...so who's really the fool?

Imagine trading your soul instead of just binding it to the material plane and living a hellish half-life. This post was brought to you by the lich gang.

Ah, but there's a point! The price of a soul depends on the market. For instance, selling souls in the middle of a city's marketplace is worth roughly a few decades in prison. Head to a more mundane black market and it's a rare curiosity, worth as much as you can talk it up. Your Archfey is likely much the same, except with its own idiosyncracities. A noble might be tempted to bid high for a soul on rarity alone, but that Archfey might find just any old soul rather mundane. The soul of a great artisan, a great warrior, "the world's greatest poet!" -- that might be a fine trophy indeed.

Of course, the problem with dealing with powerful and ancient otherwordly beings, is that they rarely keep up-to-date with the gold value. God forbid you try "paper money"; that just gets you raised eyebrows. If you have a soul worth bargaining, I might ask for some sort of boon rather than an amount of gp. That could be a magic item, for them to enchant an item for you, or some sort of forbidden knowledge. Do be careful not to press too hard and ask for too much; fey can be pretty capricious. Extra class features? Dangerous!

[Warning: that means that if the DM isn't happy about you messing with class balance, then insisting on it will probably result in backlash. You can't really go in expecting anything, but anything that adds features from other classes or is an Epic Boon could be, pretty fairly, instantly shot down. That goes for anyone you sell a soul to.]

You won't have this money trouble with devils, of course. They're always up-to-date with local economies and will pay you a "fair enough" wage for anything. Their tastes can be easier to manipulate: the purer the soul and the greater heroics it performed, well, they eat that stuff up. Can pretty much increase the value tenfold. Just be a little aware of legalese; I was once carting a truck full of spare souls, standard business arrangment, and I was halfway through the transaction when I noticed the damned imp had technically asked "for all souls in my possession". Nice try! Gave him a right whollop for that one. I'd recommend just sticking with money, as well; if they offer you some sort of "powerful weapon" I guarantee it comes with some sort of clause about growing in power the more it kills, etc. You know, road to hell sort of stuff, the usual tricks. Probably'll get you killed somehow. Just get nonmagic cash upfront.

Not gonna beat around the bush, just steer clear of Night Hags. Yes, they're interested in souls; no, they're not worth it. I don't care what magics she's offering. You're probably not their usual target if you're running around selling souls, but I'm half-inclined to think they'll give you some nightmares just for laughs rather than live knowing they helped you without strings. God help if you're still Neutral and this is your first soul rodio; that's the chicken wandering into the foxhouse for tea right there, let me tell you.

Wizards and liches are a little better -- they might not curse you just out of malevolence -- but you'll want to be on guard. Mortal wizards might not have the guts, and you can deal with them as an actual business transaction depending on the law of the land. If you can pry into what exactly they want the souls for, that's a great way of bucking up the price. Doing something sketchy? Better pay me for the risks I'm taking. You're dying soon and need the soul to sustain yourself? Good opportunity for doubling the money, if you're sure they really can pay and won't just firebolt you out of desperation. But certain liches? The moment you stop being a way for them to get more souls, you're a liability. A liability with one extra soul to harvest, who just walked into a deep dark lair in the middle of nowhere. I'd recommend dealing with middlemen, if you can, but liches can be real loners.

Finally, there are goodie two-shoes. Get a good read on them and this can be quite beneficial. They might pay a high amount to free anyone -- regardless of the soul's quality! This is a bit of a gamble, though. Get some dirt on them first so they can't just immediately turn you over to the guard, if that's a concern. Plus they might actually just... kill you where you stand? For being an Evil dealer in souls? What a pain! Make sure to come to some arrangement then, by the conversation's end. If you know they're of a merciful sort rather than a "ahah time to Smite some Evil", that can help. I'd recommend being vague on how you got the soul exactly, and underselling how culpable for the soul's state you are. Who knows? Maybe you can find a church offering a reward for souls, no-questions-asked.

[Stattick]

In this case, the soul I might come into possession of, is a young, attractive female ranger (I'm fairly sure she's a leveled character, around 10th level). She was part of a conspiracy to kidnap and extort a prior PC (my current character's mother). The conspirators succeeded in the kidnapping and extortion. The ranger went along with the conspiracy because she felt jealous and spurned by the prior PC. The ranger came within a hair of just killing the PC after the conspirators got what they wanted. Before he realized who she was, another newish player in the game hired the ranger to help look after his doddering grandmother. So far, the ranger hasn't done anything else crazy or evil that we know of, but she did seem a little wild-eyed when she asked a senior party member about the PC she'd once kidnapped. So, that's the quality of the soul.

As to who I'd sell the soul to, if I come into possession of it, it would likely be Jareth, the Goblin King (archfey, unseelie), the father of another previous PC, who the party has had some successful relations with in the past.

[Unoriginal]

In this case, the soul I might come into possession of, is a young, attractive female ranger (I'm fairly sure she's a leveled character, around 10th level). She was part of a conspiracy to kidnap and extort a prior PC (my current character's mother). The conspirators succeeded in the kidnapping and extortion. The ranger went along with the conspiracy because she felt jealous and spurned by the prior PC. The ranger came within a hair of just killing the PC after the conspirators got what they wanted. Before he realized who she was, another newish player in the game hired the ranger to help look after his doddering grandmother. So far, the ranger hasn't done anything else crazy or evil that we know of, but she did seem a little wild-eyed when she asked a senior party member about the PC she'd once kidnapped. So, that's the quality of the soul.

As to who I'd sell the soul to, if I come into possession of it, it would likely be Jareth, the Goblin King (archfey, unseelie), the father of another previous PC, who the party has had some successful relations with in the past.

How and why would your current PC steal this ranger's soul, though?

[Stattick]

How and why would your current PC steal this ranger's soul, though?

It's just one of many possible outcomes. I recently stole a Deck of Many Things (somewhat homebrewed by the GM) from my temple (to a chaotic trickster god). I stole it hoping to draw one of several cards from it that will give me a Wish - I'm trying to bring my recently murdered mother back to life. I'm at least one step ahead of the people and family (my aunt is the high priestess) that are going to be looking for me, because they'll almost certainly figure out that it had to be me that stole the deck (they use it to "read your fortune" in a ceremony in the temple).

I figure that I need to get clear of the 25 mi radius antimagic field that's been erected around the city before I can use the deck. I'm a squishy bard. That 25 miles should be about an 8 hr walk, without the protection of my party, so I figured that I'd secure the services of at least one guard on my way out of town. The ranger doesn't know me, so I figured that I'd hire her. The ranger once kidnapped my mom, extorted her for money, and then almost killed her, because the ranger was jealous. After we get clear of the field, I'll then want a guinea pig to test the deck on, to make sure that the deck wasn't cursed in some way if it isn't used in the right place or by the right person. And I don't care if something bad happens to that ranger.

One of the cards in a standard Deck of Many Things removes the person's soul, and places it in an item of the GM's choosing. I'm not sure if the GM's homebrewed deck even has that card, but if it does, and if the GM decides to put the soul in something at hand, I have a good chance of getting the ranger to hand the item over so I can cast Identify on it "to see if it tells me how to get the soul back into the ranger". In actuality, I'd just want the item in-hand before I cast Suggestion to send the ranger hours down the road before calling up that archfey father of a previous member of the adventuring party. I'm not worried about the ranger finding me later, I'm a Changling wearing Glamoured Armor - I could shake off the typical Ranger while walking through a crowded room. So, not a high chance that this scenario will actually happen play out, but it's possible. Mostly, I posted the thread just in case it did happen, to get a feel for what folks thought might be a fair price in exchange for the ranger's soul.

tl;dr: If the cards line up just right, I might be able to trick the ranger into getting her soul ripped out of her, put into a pendant she's wearing, and then handing the pendant over to me before I dismiss her with a Suggestion, and then disappearing before she can find me.

[Unoriginal]

It's just one of many possible outcomes. I recently stole a Deck of Many Things (somewhat homebrewed by the GM) from my temple (to a chaotic trickster god). I stole it hoping to draw one of several cards from it that will give me a Wish - I'm trying to bring my recently murdered mother back to life. I'm at least one step ahead of the people and family (my aunt is the high priestess) that are going to be looking for me, because they'll almost certainly figure out that it had to be me that stole the deck (they use it to "read your fortune" in a ceremony in the temple).

I figure that I need to get clear of the 25 mi radius antimagic field that's been erected around the city before I can use the deck. I'm a squishy bard. That 25 miles should be about an 8 hr walk, without the protection of my party, so I figured that I'd secure the services of at least one guard on my way out of town. The ranger doesn't know me, so I figured that I'd hire her. The ranger once kidnapped my mom, extorted her for money, and then almost killed her, because the ranger was jealous. After we get clear of the field, I'll then want a guinea pig to test the deck on, to make sure that the deck wasn't cursed in some way if it isn't used in the right place or by the right person. And I don't care if something bad happens to that ranger.

One of the cards in a standard Deck of Many Things removes the person's soul, and places it in an item of the GM's choosing. I'm not sure if the GM's homebrewed deck even has that card, but if it does, and if the GM decides to put the soul in something at hand, I have a good chance of getting the ranger to hand the item over so I can cast Identify on it "to see if it tells me how to get the soul back into the ranger". In actuality, I'd just want the item in-hand before I cast Suggestion to send the ranger hours down the road before calling up that archfey father of a previous member of the adventuring party. I'm not worried about the ranger finding me later, I'm a Changling wearing Glamoured Armor - I could shake off the typical Ranger while walking through a crowded room. So, not a high chance that this scenario will actually happen play out, but it's possible. Mostly, I posted the thread just in case it did happen, to get a feel for what folks thought might be a fair price in exchange for the ranger's soul.

tl;dr: If the cards line up just right, I might be able to trick the ranger into getting her soul ripped out of her, put into a pendant she's wearing, and then handing the pendant over to me before I dismiss her with a Suggestion, and then disappearing before she can find me.

Well, four things:

-If she got her soul ripped off her with a Deck of Many Things, it would mean that her body would be unconscious and inert, while her soul is stuck in the item and unable to do anything.

-Your plan kinda ignore the possibility of the Deck empowering the Ranger.

-I assume that your PC's mother was also a Changeling, and this Ranger was able to kidnap her. It was likely at least a couple decades ago, so unless she was lazy in the meantime she's probably at least somewhat stronger now. If you make an enemy out of her and she get the chance to take revenge, I wouldn't count on your ability to escape her.

-Why not cut the middle man and just give the Deck to the Archfey in exchange for your mother being brought back to life? Archfeys probably love the chaos of the Deck, it is a beyond legendary magic item and such much more valuable than one mortal's soul, you've already burned all the bridges with the temple you stole it from, and that way you don't have to rely on random chances to maybe get what you want.

[Stattick]

Well, four things:

-If she got her soul ripped off her with a Deck of Many Things, it would mean that her body would be unconscious and inert, while her soul is stuck in the item and unable to do anything.

I'm not sure how the GM would play it. But it wouldn't surprise me if he had the Ranger still ambulatory after getting her soul yanked out. If not, and she just collapsed, I'd be alright with that.


-Your plan kinda ignore the possibility of the Deck empowering the Ranger.

The Ranger isn't an enemy, per se. The Ranger doesn't even know about my character's existence. I wouldn't go out of my way to do her any favors, nor would I go out of my way to set up an elaborate plan to murder her. But it wouldn't bother me if I happened to cause terrible things to happen to her. So, she's the perfect guinea pig.


-I assume that your PC's mother was also a Changeling, and this Ranger was able to kidnap her. It was likely at least a couple decades ago, so unless she was lazy in the meantime she's probably at least somewhat stronger now. If you make an enemy out of her and she get the chance to take revenge, I wouldn't count on your ability to escape her.

It's a long story, but actually, no, my mother wasn't a Changeling. And it kidnapping happened last year. My character basically Kyle Reesed into the setting.


-Why not cut the middle man and just give the Deck to the Archfey in exchange for your mother being brought back to life? Archfeys probably love the chaos of the Deck, it is a beyond legendary magic item and such much more valuable than one mortal's soul, you've already burned all the bridges with the temple you stole it from, and that way you don't have to rely on random chances to maybe get what you want.

Funny you'd say that. The thought had crossed my mind. The adventuring party is named The Bridge Burners, afterall. But I'd prefer to ease into damnation slowly, instead of jumping straight into the deep end. So I'm hoping that things will work out well enough to allow me to return the deck after I'm done.

[Unoriginal]

100% fair, but keep in mind:


But I'd prefer to ease into damnation slowly, instead of jumping straight into the deep end.

If your character is planning on selling someone's soul if given the opportunity, they're already close to the deep end.

[Stattick]

100% fair, but keep in mind:



If your character is planning on selling someone's soul if given the opportunity, they're already close to the deep end.

I wouldn't do it if it was just some random person's soul. But this particular person, yeah, that's a thing that might happen. She shouldn't have kidnapped my mom or have been an all around terrible person.

[Stattick]

To follow up, the NPC (Molly) escorted me out of town, as I wished. She dragged along the half senile mother of one of the other PCs.

When I pulled them out, Molly was VERY interested in drawing some cards. She drew two cards. The first was Flames - she gained a Devil as an enemy. The second card was Sun - she gained a magic item. I also confirmed that Molly is still obsessed with my character's mom too, but fortunately, she didn't know of my existence, and as a Changeling, there was no physical resemblance.

So, she didn't draw the card I was hoping for, BUT, she did confirm that the cards are working correctly, and aren't likely cursed, as I'd feared they might be.

The other NPC, another PC's mother, also wanted to draw a card. I talked her into just drawing one card, hoping that it wasn't a bad one, but if it was, that the GM might let me burn a luck point or something to allow a different card to be pulled. She drew Vizier - ask a question and receive an answer. So, didn't have to burn resources to let her draw a different card, but also didn't get to find out if I could burn a resource to allow a different card to be pulled.