Gnoll as a playable race?

[Pyramid Pug]

Sup folks, here's some context for this. I'll be participating in Drawtober this year and to get some practice for it (and because I need to become more regular in my drawing), I've been doing daily sketches. I haven't had any particular theme (other than fanart friday) and the last couple of days has been an exploration of my DnD war cleric dwarf (he's kinda my guinea pig for try out things or when I don't have any particular idea on what I want to do).

Today tho.. INSPIRATION STRUCK!! I started sketching and it turned out an Hyena like crazed character, and as I sketched it started flowing all sorts of ideas as a sorcereress or warlockess (witch?) complete with personality and whatnot. I'm completely in love with the idea and now I want to make her a possible playable character in case something happens to my dwarf!

Now I figured it wouldn't be much of a problem since there's all sorts of exotic and weird playable races out there and Gnolls (which I figured it would be the closest) aren't exotic or uncommon even, but after some search I haven't found anything about them as playable races? Is there any official release on them as such?

Mind you I have absolutely no idea of a gnoll's racial adjustments and I'm really not looking for power gaming or anything of the sort, this is a fun character I'd like to play with one day. She's goofy, she's crazed, I love her and I'd like to one day see her take the stage in a campaign!

If there isn't any official material on the matter, I can always ask my DM to homebrew something, he's always up for creative shenanigans, but I'd love to hear the forum input on this!

[Dienekes]

There is no gnoll player race in 5e.

If your GM doesn’t want to homebrew up a gnoll, I’d look to Leonin, refluffing the roar as an evil cackle. Bugbear, or Lizardfolk are also decent options. Lizardfolk surprisingly fits mechanically quite well except for the hold breathe 15 minutes thing which is more flavor than anything.

[Fnissalot]

There is no gnoll player race in 5e.

If your GM doesn’t want to homebrew up a gnoll, I’d look to Leonin, refluffing the roar as an evil cackle. Bugbear, or Lizardfolk which surprisingly fits mechanically quite well are also decent options.

I agree that refluffing the leonin to the roar to a cackle and the claws to a bite is probably the cleanest way to do them.

The second alternative for me would be a refluff of the shifter race with the shifting being a kind of bloodthirsty rage.

My third choice would be the orc race. It doesn't really need a refluff but is rather boring.

I don't see Gnolls as sneaky which bugbears are, and the lizard folks being used to water and having better ac also feels of to me.

[Dienekes]

I agree that refluffing the leonin to the roar to a cackle and the claws to a bite is probably the cleanest way to do them.

The second alternative for me would be a refluff of the shifter race with the shifting being a kind of bloodthirsty rage.

My third choice would be the orc race. It doesn't really need a refluff but is rather boring.

I don't see Gnolls as sneaky which bugbears are, and the lizard folks being used to water and having better ac also feels of to me.

To my surprise, you are right that gnolls aren’t particularly sneaky. I’ve had them ambush my players a fair few times and always thought of them as surprise hunters. But apparently that is nowhere in their stat block.

[Zhorn]

The 5e shift for gnolls has been to push them more towards demonic killing machines emphasising that they are spawns of Yeenoghu, so for the current settings you're going to be hard pressed to find anything supporting them as a PC race.

BUT for a non-forgotten realms setting, or settings where Yeenoghu has no presence or influence I'm all for a tweak of any existing gnolls to be more of a beastfolk rather than a demonic spawn.
Perhaps a remnant of Gorellik's followers predating his fall and Yeenoghu's rise to power

[Yakk]

You could take one of the beastial and swap unsuitable feature for some kind of accuracy ability while covered in long stsm grass.

[Pyramid Pug]

Done inking the sketch. For those who are curious (and to get an idea of the character), here's the link to the post on twitter https://twitter.com/PyramidPug/status/1302953820381761537?s=20

She's my precious baby, I love her and I want to protect her!

More to the point, with a face like that I imagine her she'd be chaotic aligned and in all likelihood Wild Magic sorceress, tho being a warlock could fit as well. What do you folks imagine her class would be?



The 5e shift for gnolls has been to push them more towards demonic killing machines emphasising that they are spawns of Yeenoghu, so for the current settings you're going to be hard pressed to find anything supporting them as a PC race.

BUT for a non-forgotten realms setting, or settings where Yeenoghu has no presence or influence I'm all for a tweak of any existing gnolls to be more of a beastfolk rather than a demonic spawn.
Perhaps a remnant of Gorellik's followers predating his fall and Yeenoghu's rise to power

Yeah, we play mostly in Forgotten Realms, tho with a creative enough story I could prolly justify playing just about anything really (well within reason, I ain't likely to play a Tarrasque 😂)

That said I ain't looking to be a special snowflake or anything, I was sketching the character and it really reminded me of a Gnoll. Figured with so many monster races now being playable, a gnoll would be as well, tho I guess I was wrong.

There's always the whole wild magic angle, the thing could have broken the whole demonic hold/nature within her, or she could have naturally been the odd ball that no one knew what to do with her anyway.

I imagine she thinks of herself as a fancy lady and with high charisma she could actually BS some folks into believing it as well, nothing suspicious here, just a high society dinner with your noble humans, elves and a gnoll 🤣

[JackPhoenix]

5e gnolls are just a step above demons. "No goodness or compassion resides in the heart of a gnoll. Like a demon, it lacks anything resembling a conscience, and can't be taught or coerced to put aside its destructive tendencies. The gnolls' frenzied bloodlust makes them an enemy to all, and when they lack a common foe, they fight among themselves. Even the most savage orcs avoid allying with gnolls." They would not make for viable player characters.

That said, there's gnoll "NPC race" in DMG: +2 Str, -2 Int, 1d4 bite, darkvision and the Rampage ability gnolls have. It's the closest you'll get to official playable gnoll. There's also playable gnoll race in Exploring Eberron, but that's different, specific setting, and also 3rd party product.

[HappyDaze]

Keith Baker put a PC gnoll race into Exploring Eberron if you want to use DM's Guild stuff.

[da newt]

Yup - DMG pg 282 lists gnolls as a NPC. It's a start / something to flesh out. +2 St, -2 Int, Dark Vision, Rampage

I'd replace Rampage with a BA bite attack (prof + St to hit, 1d4 + St damage), add +1 to Wis, and add keen sense for smell and hearing (ADV on Perception for those senses). At that point I think it would be balanced with most any other generic PC race (maybe a touch under).

As for class, I'd think more Shaman than Sorcerer (but I'm not sure of your vision for her), and look at Circle of Land Druid - Grass Land or maybe Cleric - Trickster or Nature ... I assume she may think she's high Cha, but gnolls strike me as low Cha really (but Chaotic for sure).

She has a fun face - reminds me of lion king Hyena Ed.

[Quietus]

Done inking the sketch. For those who are curious (and to get an idea of the character), here's the link to the post on twitter https://twitter.com/PyramidPug/statu...381761537?s=20

She's my precious baby, I love her and I want to protect her!

More to the point, with a face like that I imagine her she'd be chaotic aligned and in all likelihood Wild Magic sorceress, tho being a warlock could fit as well. What do you folks imagine her class would be?

She's got an undead look to my eyes; I'd want to go with a shadow sorcerer. Possibly warlock. Use Vampiric Touch (sorcerer gets this in the class expansion UA) regularly; Warlock in particular with the auto-upcast would make decent use of this. 5d6 each turn, healing for half... I suppose a Death cleric could also do this, and burn channel divinities to increase the necrotic damage done, and therefore the damage healed.

[Fnissalot]

The 5e shift for gnolls has been to push them more towards demonic killing machines emphasising that they are spawns of Yeenoghu, so for the current settings you're going to be hard pressed to find anything supporting them as a PC race.

BUT for a non-forgotten realms setting, or settings where Yeenoghu has no presence or influence I'm all for a tweak of any existing gnolls to be more of a beastfolk rather than a demonic spawn.
Perhaps a remnant of Gorellik's followers predating his fall and Yeenoghu's rise to power

It is kind of sad, they used to be one of the few reasonable races that rather took a bribe than was slain in the old edition adventures I remember.

[zinycor]

The leonin statblock fits pretty well, I would go with that.

As for an in-world reason, even with all their abyssal influence they aren't fiends yet, so there is always room for your character to be one of the few good people on an evil race (A DnD classic)

Edit: refluffing a Tabaxi is also an option I would consider.

[micahaphone]

This just reminds me of a point later into Out of the Abyss where the party can meet a gnoll who's been affected by one of the available madnesses and is now terrified of violence and bloodshed. This is especially disturbing for them as they remember everything they did as a gnoll leading up to this point, and know that they "should" enjoy the hunt and the slaughter. They can be a good guide to a labyrinth if your party doesn't decapitate them immediately.



As far as race, Orc would fit great with the bonus action charge, but I personally associate gnolls with speed/charging, less about the raw strength of an orc and more about the speed of a pack bearing down on you. So I could see tabaxi being a good fit.


EDIT: okay looking at the leonin statblock (first I've heard of it), that'd be a good fit too. wow. even gets an extra 5 ft of movement!

[Witty Username]

Out of DMG seems boring but balanced.

The 5e version of gnolls is universally evil and stupid and therefore considered not fit for a player. This makes an official version unlikely.

[Sigreid]

Personally, I liked older edition gnolls. In 5e though, they're literally manifestations of a psychotic demon lord's crazy. Not sure you can make a functional character out of that.

[Zhorn]

This is where as I was saying earlier to fish up a story reason for them to be independent from Yeenoghu.
Lore wise Gorellik WAS the chief deity worshipped by gnolls, and while being chaotic evil, he was a demigod and not a demon, who's domains were of beasts and the hunt.
Also worth noting that Yeenoghu was not the originator of gnolls (he gained the ability to make them after rising to power and taking over gnoll worship). Prior to Yeenoghu, Gorellik was the main creator of gnolls for a long while (though I think there are some sources having even him as coming in after the gnolls' true origination).
He was also a wanderer, and while the Abyss and Pandemonium are the main planes he would inhabit, he had no home plane. Wandering other planes would not be out of the question.
It would be entirely reasonable for there to be tribes of gnolls created by Gorellik (or at the very least NOT created by Yeenoghu) having no demonic influence, wandering as small nomadic hunting tribes in the likes of the Feywilds or Beastlands. Remnants of their demigods prior wanderings, perpetuating their existence the old-fashion way. Still 'evil' in the sense of hunting and killing anything for food, but more similar to how lizardfolk see anyone not them as meat, and not some demonic madness driven by impossibly unending hunger.

Simple lore compatible reason to get a non-demonic gnoll suitable for PC usage, and the most snowflakey thing about them is having LESS interaction with a demonlord than compared to their standard counterparts.

[Witty Username]

Personally, I liked older edition gnolls. In 5e though, they're literally manifestations of a psychotic demon lord's crazy. Not sure you can make a functional character out of that.

yet tieflings are in the PHB, apparently fiend blood makes people irredeemably evil except when it doesn't.

[JackPhoenix]

yet tieflings are in the PHB, apparently fiend blood makes people irredeemably evil except when it doesn't.

Fiend blood doesn't make people anything. Tieflings have nothing to do with gnolls... genetic link to a fiend is not the same thing as being created as psychotic monster.

[Pyramid Pug]

Thanks all for the great input! Yeah seems more like a matter of creating a good backstory. I've also seen some good online homebrews that are fairly balanced.

Lorewise even the more bound gnolls like the ones in FR (which is the setting I usually play in) have the safeguard of "it's not that aren't good gnolls, it's that the ones who show compassion are eaten or chased out". I mean.. she's kinda the oddball already so.. at a bare minimum story wise being a sorceress/warlock could have meant the magic broke the demonic hold or the patron could have shielded her from the other gnolls retaliation.

She wouldn't be undead/shadow/necro tho.. she's a fun character and I don't particularly like more emo or edgy characters. Plus those are more usually associated with evil (tho not necessarily so) and I want to distance the character from it. Come to think of it, I don't really like when a class or subclass is associated with an alignment, don't fancy much celestial stuff now that I think about it 🤔

Now hear me out.. sheep-blooded sorcerer.. like dragon-blooded, but sheep.

Seriously tho, this is something I've thought about before (no, not the sheep, but kind of 😂), there's all kinds of themed sorcerer subclasses but there isn't one nature themed. That would be cool, like having dryad blood or having survived a Wild Hunt and being rewarded. Maybe I should take another sorcerer subclass and refluff it as that.

[Verble]

The Midgard setting from Kobold Press has gnolls as a playable race. Great setting.

They get some weapon proficiencies and a bonus to intimidate weaker opponents.

[Sigreid]

yet tieflings are in the PHB, apparently fiend blood makes people irredeemably evil except when it doesn't.

Very different situation between a dark ancestor and literally being created as a manifestation of a demon lord's crazy. Personally, I prefer old school gnolls where this wouldn't be an issue.

[AHF]

Very different situation between a dark ancestor and literally being created as a manifestation of a demon lord's crazy. Personally, I prefer old school gnolls where this wouldn't be an issue.

There are lots of stories about things created out of evil and pursuing evil purposes that essentially break free, garner a sense of awareness / sentience they never had before, and choose a different path.

Just need some narrative why the inherently evil creature or modified version thereof now can make their own choice. You can see 'inherently evil' or 'created by evil' characters who flipped in many circumstances from Smurfette (created by evil for evil but redeemed by a spell) to Spike in Buffy (inherently evil vampire redeemed by love and recapturing his soul) to Lasciel from the Dresden Files (an irredeemable fallen angel but whose psychic image develops independent sentience and redeems the psychic manifestation).

[Sigreid]

There are lots of stories about things created out of evil and pursuing evil purposes that essentially break free, garner a sense of awareness / sentience they never had before, and choose a different path.

Just need some narrative why the inherently evil creature or modified version thereof now can make their own choice. You can see 'inherently evil' or 'created by evil' characters who flipped in many circumstances from Smurfette (created by evil for evil but redeemed by a spell) to Spike in Buffy (inherently evil vampire redeemed by love and recapturing his soul) to Lasciel from the Dresden Files (an irredeemable fallen angel but whose psychic image develops independent sentience and redeems the psychic manifestation).

Or you just decide "Not in my D&D" and move on. :)

[JNAProductions]

Or you just decide "Not in my D&D" and move on. :)

It's not your D&D, though.

It's you and your players'. Their desires matter too.

[Zhorn]

In trying to have 'good' gnolls, I worry there's also a large misunderstanding of the gnoll's particular brand of 'evil'.
Gnolls in worship of Yeenoghu are not slaves being mind controlled. They switched over their worship to this demon prince because he better represented their natural inclinations and values of violence and slaughter more so than their previous deity being of beasts and hunting.
Ignoring the fiend aspect that Yeenoghu has imparted to gnolls since he took over creating them, the primary difference between a pre-Yeenoghu gnoll and a post-Yeeneghu gnoll is just the hunger.
Both would happily eat off the face of anyone around them (including other gnolls), but a pre-Yeenoghu gnoll can satiate that hunger with any old eating habits. Post-Yeenogu gnolls continue to have an insatiable hunger until they've slaughtered and devoured intelligent/sentient creatures.
Pre-Yeenoghu gnolls can be reasoned/bartered with, as if they can get a feed without without the need of slaughtering you then it's all the same.
Post-Yeenogu gnolls cannot be reasoned/bartered with, and there is nothing you can offer then that they want more than to kill and eat YOU


Lorewise even the more bound gnolls like the ones in FR (which is the setting I usually play in) have the safeguard of "it's not that aren't good gnolls, it's that the ones who show compassion are eaten or chased out".

This one is applying too much of a human psychology to them, and dilutes the core aspect of Yeenoghu gnolls. It's not that compassion is rare, its that they don't have it at all. Similarly IF somehow there were one such gnoll in their midst, it wouldn't be chased out or eaten, it would only be eaten. Even when only amongst like minded gnolls, the main thing stopping them from trying to eat each other constantly is the other gnoll will try to eat them back, and being all about the easy kill, this drives them to divert their attention to human(-oid) settlements instead. A gnoll not constantly looking to eat someone is a weak and easy target in the minds of a gnoll that is.

As mentioned earlier, you want a Forgotten Realms gnoll not driven by such madness and hunger, don't get any gnoll and remove Yeenoghu, get a gnoll that NEVER HAD any connection to Yeenoghu.


Or you just decide "Not in my D&D" and move on. :)

This works too. Home games are free to scrap anything that doesn't work for you, but I maintain that's something better saved for homebrew settings. If playing in a particular known setting, there should at the very least be some level of respect for elements existing in that setting and attempt to adhere to comparability. Otherwise what's the point in even using the setting to begin with?

Homebrew settings where drow have no sunlight sensitivity, live above ground, are not matriarchal, and are not worshippers of an evil spider god? Sure, go nuts.
Try to pull that off in Forgotten Realms and I'm thinking why even call them drow at that point when they're clearly not?

Or dwarves without beards, who are tall, and don't have a mining culture.

Or super intelligent and civilised pure blood orcs that exclusively live in cities and are not large and muscle bound.

[Sigreid]

It's not your D&D, though.

It's you and your players'. Their desires matter too.

To an extent. Part of the fun, at least in the groups I've been part of is learning and not knowing.

Regardless, my desire to have them be a primitive race and not actual literal manifestations of crazy is unlikely to disappoint anyone in my group. Though I've also toyed with a campaign world where orcs are spontaneous manifestations of the hate in the world to facilitate the black and white/absolute good vs monstrous evil.

[FoxWolFrostFire]

Gnolls are most similar to orc. So you can rip their stat block...also the guy who made Eberron made a 3rd party book called exploring eberron which has Gnoll player stats

[HappyDaze]

Gnolls are most similar to orc. So you can rip their stat block...also the guy who made Eberron made a 3rd party book called exploring eberron which has Gnoll player stats

I pointed out the Exploring Eberron gnolls (particularly the Znir Pact) much earlier on, and nobody seemed to notice.

[FoxWolFrostFire]

I pointed out the Exploring Eberron gnolls (particularly the Znir Pact) much earlier on, and nobody seemed to notice.

Sorry about that. I was on my phone at the time and it is easy to overlook posts while doing so.

[Pyramid Pug]

In trying to have 'good' gnolls, I worry there's also a large misunderstanding of the gnoll's particular brand of 'evil'.
Gnolls in worship of Yeenoghu are not slaves being mind controlled. They switched over their worship to this demon prince because he better represented their natural inclinations and values of violence and slaughter more so than their previous deity being of beasts and hunting.
Ignoring the fiend aspect that Yeenoghu has imparted to gnolls since he took over creating them, the primary difference between a pre-Yeenoghu gnoll and a post-Yeeneghu gnoll is just the hunger.
Both would happily eat off the face of anyone around them (including other gnolls), but a pre-Yeenoghu gnoll can satiate that hunger with any old eating habits. Post-Yeenogu gnolls continue to have an insatiable hunger until they've slaughtered and devoured intelligent/sentient creatures.
Pre-Yeenoghu gnolls can be reasoned/bartered with, as if they can get a feed without without the need of slaughtering you then it's all the same.
Post-Yeenogu gnolls cannot be reasoned/bartered with, and there is nothing you can offer then that they want more than to kill and eat YOU



This one is applying too much of a human psychology to them, and dilutes the core aspect of Yeenoghu gnolls. It's not that compassion is rare, its that they don't have it at all. Similarly IF somehow there were one such gnoll in their midst, it wouldn't be chased out or eaten, it would only be eaten. Even when only amongst like minded gnolls, the main thing stopping them from trying to eat each other constantly is the other gnoll will try to eat them back, and being all about the easy kill, this drives them to divert their attention to human(-oid) settlements instead. A gnoll not constantly looking to eat someone is a weak and easy target in the minds of a gnoll that is.

As mentioned earlier, you want a Forgotten Realms gnoll not driven by such madness and hunger, don't get any gnoll and remove Yeenoghu, get a gnoll that NEVER HAD any connection to Yeenoghu.



This works too. Home games are free to scrap anything that doesn't work for you, but I maintain that's something better saved for homebrew settings. If playing in a particular known setting, there should at the very least be some level of respect for elements existing in that setting and attempt to adhere to comparability. Otherwise what's the point in even using the setting to begin with?

Homebrew settings where drow have no sunlight sensitivity, live above ground, are not matriarchal, and are not worshippers of an evil spider god? Sure, go nuts.
Try to pull that off in Forgotten Realms and I'm thinking why even call them drow at that point when they're clearly not?

Or dwarves without beards, who are tall, and don't have a mining culture.

Or super intelligent and civilised pure blood orcs that exclusively live in cities and are not large and muscle bound.

And yet the poster boy for Forgotten realms is a Drow that got over his light sensitivity, lives above ground, is not matriarchal and is not a worshipper of Lloth lol. Ignoring the vast horde of special snowflakes and Mary sues Drizzt created, he does serve a purpose of contrasting the vileness of the main Drow society (and let's not forget that there are non-evil drow refugee communities that rejected Lloth and the Underdark). It's a reminder that unless directly mind-controlled (by like say mind-flayers), no society or culture is truly homogenic.

"Though gnolls were not necessarily evil, the craving of the hunt and primal bloodlust that inhabited the gnoll's mind have made many of the race lean towards a chaotic evil alignment by reflex. Gnolls that succumbed to this tendency often became nomadic savages, wreaking havoc wherever they can, giving them their fearsome reputation as slaving brigands throughout the world. Fortunately, such creatures have rarely been united and although gnolls as a whole have had a strong affinity for family and blood ties, this friendliness has not often extended to those who belonged to a different pack and the race has commonly made war on itself.[12] Some gnolls could suffer from a rare form of madness that could quell their intense hunger and evil instincts, causing guilt for their misdeeds and a pacifistic nature. "

That's from the FR wiki article referencing 5th edition books. It also says that the gnolls believe they were created by that dood you mentioned, but many don't and don't actually worship him, with some outright establishing non-aggressive relations with other races working as hunters and trappers for them.

I'm not looking to be Drizz't 2.0, I legit never liked special snowflakes or emo/ edgy characters. I did a sketch that gave me an interesting and funny idea for a character and decided to explore it further. I ain't looking for power-gaming or anything either, gnoll's racial bonus (well the homebrews I've seen) are mostly physical and I see this character as a full spellcaster, with high charisma. In fact the funny of it is precisely going against type, a gnoll that sees herself a fancy lady eating traveling rations with fork and knife.

Gonna be honest, this is the best and most interesting character I ever created and the reaction here and on twitter has been nothing but positive.

As for the why she wouldn't be a demonic hyena, in a world of magic and gods that's the easiest explanation. Maybe she's a sorcerer and the magic in her blood shifted her natural gnoll tendencies (I still like the whole sheep-blooded sorcerer lol), maybe she accidentally saved a feywild creature who blessed her with peace, maybe a trickster god thought it would be funny (I know I did), maybe she got experimented upon by a wizard. Could be any of these, heck could be ALL of these.

On a side note (and I think I've mentioned this before), is there any subclass splat for the sorcerer that's nature-based? (official or homebrew). Sorcerers have all these different themes for bloodlines, but none nature themed.

[zinycor]

I guess storm blodline would be the closer from official books, but there surely is some homebrew for it. Maybe consider fey warlock if your GM isn't into homebrew.

[micahaphone]

In the fairly well balanced "Compendium of Forgotten Secrets" 3rd party book, there's a sorcerous origin that's like divine soul but for the druid spell list. It does give a limited lineage/domain spell list, 1 spell per odd level, through sixth level spells. A weak sleep spell effect that will let you finish off fights your party has already won, some temp hp. the druid spell options and lineage spells are the standouts.

The full book is well done (and if anything most options are flavorful but underpowered), but there's also a free pdf with the player options available at https://www.genfantasypress.com/ Look at the end of the "BlackThorn Grove" chapter, which coincidentally is also one of my favorite warlock patrons in that book. "Sorcerous Origin: Blackthorn Lineage"




EDIT
And if your DM wants official material only, I like the concept of a grateful fey granting power, but they did it as a quick 'n easy thing before popping back into the feywild, so your character got a bit too much arcane juice put into their blood, and now you're a wild magic sorcerer. People think Gnolls are unstable, but you're not like other gnolls, you're unstable in a different direction!

[Darthnazrael]

As folks have repeated, in core dnd 5e*, they're not a playable race because of their demonic nature. I heard that, because of this, in the upcoming TCoE, when they introduce the idea that "The defining characteristic of humanoids is that they are capable of ethical reasoning, and therefore any creature with the Humanoid type now has a suggest alignment of Any," they're going to make a special note of gnolls' specifically evil nature, and change their type from Humanoid to Fiend.

* This is not true for every setting in 5E. In Exandria (aka Critical Role World, the setting of Wildemount and Tal'Dorei), Gnolls are specifically not this way, but rather ARE humanoids capable of ethical reasoning. Because of this, I really suggest looking at Matt Mercer's material for inspiration on them if you want to play a PC gnoll. For example, even if your game isn't set in Exandria, maybe she is from Exandria and was planeshifted to your ST's preferred game world by her Infernal master (in this scenario, the PC is a Fiend Warlock), who wants her to free this world's Gnolls from Yeenoghu's control (because the Infernal Master is a high-ranking demon working for a different demon Prince, opposed to Yeenoghu).

[zinycor]

It's not like Celestial can choose to do evil or fiends to do good.... right?

[Sigreid]

It's not like Celestial can choose to do evil or fiends to do good.... right?

In D&D lore? Not without changing what they are. Falling or rising as appropriate. Unless it's a trick to further their goals for a fiend.

Oh, and because I'm not sure I was clear, I'm in favor of a less directly fiendish version of gnolls where they would be viable for a player race. I didn't care for the new lore when I read it.

[micahaphone]

It's not like Celestial can choose to do evil or fiends to do good.... right?

Planescape: Torment had Fall-From-Grace, a succubus who opened a philosophy school and debate hall, leaving behind her typical succubus ways.
Zariel chose to abandon the celestial plane to go fight in the blood war, going from archangel to archdevil.

It's very rare, but it does happen

[Unoriginal]

It's not like Celestial can choose to do evil or fiends to do good.... right?

If there is no choice, there is no good or evil.

A Celestial may be a personification of good, but they choose to stay themselves.

[zinycor]

So, in the end, even with the new lore, it seems like a gnoll deciding to not be evil would be fine, but it might change its nature, depending on GM interpretation, right?

[Unoriginal]

So, in the end, even with the new lore, it seems like a gnoll deciding to not be evil would be fine, but it might change its nature, depending on GM interpretation, right?

It would be as exceptional as a Fiend becoming not evil, but yes.


Do note that the Wildemount Gnolls mentioned above are under Yeenoguh's influence like all the other Gnolls, unless one of the mystical artifacts known as the Luxon's Beacons break said influence.

[Darthnazrael]

I'm not strong in my Wildemount lore, but I was lead to believe they do have greater 'free will', as it were, than traditional 5e rules. I could be wrong on that, though.