What makes an item cursed?

[jjordan]

Example: Players discover a helmet in the loot taken from a group of creatures. Knowledge cleric sits down to ritually cast identify and determines that this helmet grants blindsense within 30 feet to the wearer. Side effect is that the wearer now takes double damage from thunder attacks.

Do you just hand the player the item card with everything on it? Do you hand the player the item card with just blindsense on it and let them discover the thunder damage side effect in play?

The DMG specifically states that identify will not detect curses. Does this type of side effect count as curse?

Yes, I know the answers are a matter of DM opinion. So what's your opinion?

[Cicciograna]

Example: Players discover a helmet in the loot taken from a group of creatures. Knowledge cleric sits down to ritually cast identify and determines that this helmet grants blindsense within 30 feet to the wearer. Side effect is that the wearer now takes double damage from thunder attacks.

Do you just hand the player the item card with everything on it? Do you hand the player the item card with just blindsense on it and let them discover the thunder damage side effect in play?

The DMG specifically states that identify will not detect curses. Does this type of side effect count as curse?

Yes, I know the answers are a matter of DM opinion. So what's your opinion?

I would not disclose the curse, and let the players find out by themselves.
According to this interesting analysis (https://thinkdm.org/2018/06/30/cursed-items/), "A good cursed item will also have beneficial properties", which seems to be the case here. For me, it would make for a more interesting story if the characters discovered the curse by being exposed to them. Maybe I would give some kind of hint on the fact that the item is cursed, like the wearer feels uneasy whenever there's a thunderstorm outside; if it's one of those "can't be removed" items, when camping for the night I'd pass a secret message to the other players stating "you notice that [PC name] is still wearing his helmet" and proceed from there.

[Unoriginal]

Example: Players discover a helmet in the loot taken from a group of creatures. Knowledge cleric sits down to ritually cast identify and determines that this helmet grants blindsense within 30 feet to the wearer. Side effect is that the wearer now takes double damage from thunder attacks.

Do you just hand the player the item card with everything on it? Do you hand the player the item card with just blindsense on it and let them discover the thunder damage side effect in play?

The DMG specifically states that identify will not detect curses. Does this type of side effect count as curse?

Yes, I know the answers are a matter of DM opinion. So what's your opinion?

It's not really a matter of opinion, though. A cursed magic item is an item which impose an effect (generally but not always an hindering one) or a condition of use on the wearer/user.

It can be a side effect, like your helmet making the wearer vulnerable to Thunder, the whole effect, like a cursed ring which makes the wearer less agile, an additional effect with nothing to do with the main effect, like a sword cursed to make the wearer very easy to scry on by whoever own the magic mirror of the sword's creator, or simply be a "can't remove the item" clause.

As for the rest, as the DMG says:


A magic item's description specifies whether the item is cursed. Most methods of identifying items, including the identify spell, fail to reveal such a curse, although lore might hint at it. A curse should be a surprise to the item's user when the curse's effects are revealed.

If you don't like that kind of surprises, though, just tell everything about the item from the get go.

[Gryndle]

Example: Players discover a helmet in the loot taken from a group of creatures. Knowledge cleric sits down to ritually cast identify and determines that this helmet grants blindsense within 30 feet to the wearer. Side effect is that the wearer now takes double damage from thunder attacks.

Do you just hand the player the item card with everything on it? Do you hand the player the item card with just blindsense on it and let them discover the thunder damage side effect in play?

The DMG specifically states that identify will not detect curses. Does this type of side effect count as curse?

Yes, I know the answers are a matter of DM opinion. So what's your opinion?

As described I wouldn't even call the helmet "cursed". Its an item with a drawback, but unless you left something out, the character can remove it and not use it as situations dictate. Now if the character couldn't do so i would consider it cursed.

[cutlery]

Effects with a negative side effect you can opt out of by removing the item aren't necessarily cursed; I'd consider something that needs a lesser restoration, remove curse, dispel magic, or better to reverse meets the loose definition in my head.

Something like the shield of missile attraction; where even removing the shield doesn't end the negative effect.

[firelistener]

I just always tell the players everything. I used to keep the specifics of curses hidden, but then it always felt to the players like I was making stuff up as I went. To counteract it, they started spending tons of game time fiddling with new magic items and acting super paranoid all the time. Once, they found a mundane red silk robe in a chest and spent 30 minutes conducting tests with it despite me insisting that there was absolutely nothing magical about it. Being up front about curses just helps the game flow better, in my experience.

[Kurt Kurageous]

If the item requires attunement, an attuned person would be aware of the curse, negating surprise. But if the item didn't require attunement (maybe maiking it 'too good to be true', you got a shot at surprise.

I personally don't like cursed items for the same reason I am wary of using traps. Once the PCs have encountered one, their paranoia level rises greatly. This tends to bog down the game.

A little goes a long way.

[jjordan]

Thanks for the thoughtful responses, everyone. I particularly liked the article you linked to Cicciograna.

Right now according to the RAW:
-An item is cursed if the DM says it's cursed.
-Curses can't be detected until they take effect. Which I interpret as when the curse actually has an effect, not when the player becomes cursed (unless that creates an immediate effect).

I don't like gotcha curses for a bunch of reasons. First, they're no fun. Second, it feels wrong to me. When a character sits down to identify a magic item they should at least have a chance of spotting the curse. Third, detect magic, it's magic, identify, nothing, so that means it's cursed, chuck it. Which is just really mechanistic gameplay.

I'm pondering this and ways to address it. I was dropping hints when the players cast identify but they didn't like this because there was no mechanism for them do anything else with the item. They knew something was up but they didn't know what and didn't know what else to do. And just handing someone the card really cuts into plot. Here you go, Bilbo, the card for the one ring. It'll let you be invisible and control a bunch of other creatures, if you know how, but it will also slowly corrupt you.

[firelistener]

Thanks for the thoughtful responses, everyone. I particularly liked the article you linked to Cicciograna.

Right now according to the RAW:
-An item is cursed if the DM says it's cursed.
-Curses can't be detected until they take effect. Which I interpret as when the curse actually has an effect, not when the player becomes cursed (unless that creates an immediate effect).

I don't like gotcha curses for a bunch of reasons. First, they're no fun. Second, it feels wrong to me. When a character sits down to identify a magic item they should at least have a chance of spotting the curse. Third, detect magic, it's magic, identify, nothing, so that means it's cursed, chuck it. Which is just really mechanistic gameplay.

I'm pondering this and ways to address it. I was dropping hints when the players cast identify but they didn't like this because there was no mechanism for them do anything else with the item. They knew something was up but they didn't know what and didn't know what else to do. And just handing someone the card really cuts into plot. Here you go, Bilbo, the card for the one ring. It'll let you be invisible and control a bunch of other creatures, if you know how, but it will also slowly corrupt you.

As DM, it's ultimately up to you on how much info to give. IMO, the fun part isn't wondering how exactly an item is cursed, but rather deciding if it's worthwhile to use it despite the curse. Your helmet, for example, works great in this regard. Is blindsense worth thunder vulnerability? Sure, sometimes. But it only really becomes a "curse" if they get stuck with their choice.

What I usually do is tell players all the item's qualities like that, but I only leave out whether or not it's "cursed" in the traditional sense that they cannot remove it under normal circumstances. I find this fun for everyone because the player is still making an informed decision, but they still get the surprise of discovering that they might be stuck with their choice for longer than they intended.

If the item is supposed to slowly have its qualities revealed for plot's sake like the One Ring, I would just make any attempts at identification fail and/or reveal false info. That should be fine mechanically if you say it has been imbued with a permenant effect from Nystul's Magic Aura.

[Ninja_Prawn]

I don't like surprise 'gotcha' curses either. They're cheap, not fun, and they promote a bad kind of paranoia. Also, I struggle to see the point of identify if it doesn't identify curses and attuning to an item tells you everything about it for free. Hence, I tend to rule that curses are always and only revealed by identify. Kills two birds with one stone.

[Stattick]

GM: You find a bucket helmet. That means it's one piece, no movable faceplate. But there are small breathing holes in front of the mouth and nose. The helm is very ornate and shiny, but there's messy crud around all around the breathing holes.

Cleric: *detect magic*

GM: It's magic.

Cleric: *Identify*

GM: The helm grants Blindsense to 30', but makes you vulnerable to Thunder damage.

Cleric: Cool. I think Fighter might like this.

Fighter: Definately!

Later...

Fighter: So... this curse sucks.

Cleric: Thunder damage isn't that common though.

Fighter: No, that's not the curse. The curse is that I can't take the helmet off.

Cleric: Uh, that doesn't seem so bad.

Fighter: I'm hungry. I'm gonna pour some soup through the helmet's grill toward my mouth.

Cleric: Oh... no faceplate. Oh, my.

Fighter: Someone's GOT to learn Prestidigitation. Otherwise, I'm never gonna get all the soup out of my goatee.

Cleric: What a horrible curse.

[Segev]

GM: You find a bucket helmet. That means it's one piece, no movable faceplate. But there are small breathing holes in front of the mouth and nose. The helm is very ornate and shiny, but there's messy crud around all around the breathing holes.

Cleric: *detect magic*

GM: It's magic.

Cleric: *Identify*

GM: The helm grants Blindsense to 30', but makes you vulnerable to Thunder damage.

Cleric: Cool. I think Fighter might like this.

Fighter: Definately!

Later...

Fighter: So... this curse sucks.

Cleric: Thunder damage isn't that common though.

Fighter: No, that's not the curse. The curse is that I can't take the helmet off.

Cleric: Uh, that doesn't seem so bad.

Fighter: I'm hungry. I'm gonna pour some soup through the helmet's grill toward my mouth.

Cleric: Oh... no faceplate. Oh, my.

Fighter: Someone's GOT to learn Prestidigitation. Otherwise, I'm never gonna get all the soup out of my goatee.

Cleric: What a horrible curse.
That's glorious. Well played.


The important thing about cursed items is that there should be some hint about the curse the players can pick up on, so that when it triggers, they don't think it came out of nowhere. And it should be a hint that is not just, "I can see that making sense," but rather, "Oh, THAT's why such-and-such was so-and-soing!"

For instance, if the party comes across a statue of an exhausted-looking orc leaning on an axe in a somewhat odd position in a room, their first instinct might be, "Oh, it's a medusa's lair; watch out, guys!" But then, when the bones in the room pull together into skeletons that start attacking, and initiative is rolled, and the statue comes to life and flies into a frothing rage as it attacks the PCs, they might wonder what's up with that.

Identifying the axe as a +1 axe that crits any time you have advantage and both rolls would have hit (as well as under the normal circumstances) is really cool. The fact that the curse on it drives you berserk, attacking the nearest living creature each round, if you miss when you have Advantage or Disadvantage, and that the only way to snap out of it is to get a crit, is a bit unfortunate. Especially since having no living targets while you're still berserk turns you to stone until combat begins near you.

Nevertheless, the reason the exhausted-looking statue was there is that he'd been berserk in several relatively short combats in a row, since the skeletons kept tearing apart the living beings he was compelled to attack, and then the fights ended and he turned back to stone.

It's even a mildly manageable curse, particularly for that player who just wants to roll combat dice and otherwise disengages from the game when combat isn't happening.

[KittenMagician]

the way i run i dentify is that higher level identifies reveal more information about an item. low end curses are revealed by lower end identifies. high end curses are only revealed by high end identifies. a level 9 identify reveals all the information about an item including all curses. when identify is cast at any level i inform the caster if there is more information to learn or not.

A good example is each PC got a scale from a demigod rainbow dragon as a quest reward. One of the players got a red scale and had it made into a breastplate. it is a +2 breastplate that provides fire resistance. further for every instance of resisting 10 fire damage at once (resisting 9 or less damage gives nothing) the breast plate gains a charge. the charges can be used to cast the cantrip firebolt being 1 charge. that is all the players know about it.

it also does the following:
**4 charges:** Cast the *Aganazzar's Scorcher* spell.

**7 charges:** Cast the *Fireball* spell.

**12 charges:** Cast the *Immolation* spell.

**20 charges:** Cast the *Fire Storm* spell.

**50 charges:** Gain permanent immunity to fire damage.

so for each charge he needs to take 20 fire damage so he can resist 10. this means to reach 50 charges he needs to take a total of 1000 fire damage without spending any charges. so far he has 1 charge.

[Greywander]

I'm not sure if there's an official definition of what makes something a cursed item, but I always assumed that the defining trait of cursed items was that you can't just take them off. You might be able to physically remove the item, but the effects of the curse would continue. If the item uses attunement, then you can't unattune to the item.

So you could run this helm as a cursed item. Either it can't be removed, or the player remains vulnerable to thunder damage even after taking the helm off. You could also just run it as a non-cursed item with a drawback.

If you run it as a cursed item, a good way to foreshadow the curse's effect would be to describe the player suddenly having sensitive hearing, to the point where the louder sounds are actually painful. Then, when they finally take thunder damage, you can describe it as being so loud that it feel like your eardrums are bursting. Part of the purpose of foreshadowing is to cue the players in to the fact that this was always the plan, rather than something you made up on the spot. They might not figure out what the sensitive hearing means, but when the player takes double damage from thunder, they should see the connection.