item familiar question

[Zhepna]

Hi,

I have the item familiar feat and my race is elf generalist (Races of the wild p. 157)

my character need an high amount of spellcraft. I bought an custom +14 spellcraft item and it'll be the item linked as my item familiar.

At 3rd level, an elf wizard’s link to her familiar strengthens. The bonus on skill checks, saves, or hit points granted by the familiar doubles.

When I level, I invest skills points into my item familiars and invest the bonus skills points given into spellcraft.

I understand that those extras skills points obtained are doubled by the elf generalist capacity.

However, I would like to know if it also double the +14 spellcraft that the custom magic item is given.

Thanks for the information and have a nice day.

[tuesdayscoming]

Elf Generalist will NOT double ANYTHING from an Item Familiar. Item Familiar DOES NOT EQUAL "Familiar".

Elf Generalist affects the bonuses from the creature you select as part of the "Summon Familiar" feature that wizards get at level one.

[Zhepna]

ok, sorry for the mistake. I thought it was going like this because of what I read online.

Per exemple at the 7th paragraph of this link:

https://ihititwithmyaxe.tumblr.com/post/26025536059/breaking-dd-35-item-familiars-incantatrix/amp

''The “Natural Link” ability strengthens the bond between the wizard and familiar, and doubles any bonuses granted by a familiar, be they to hit points, saves, or skill checks. So the +12 bonus to Spellcraft from item familiar just became a whopping +24.''

[tuesdayscoming]

Absolutely no need to apologize! It's a perfectly reasonable point of confusion. However, Item Familiar's benefits are distinct from those of Wizard/Sorcerer familiars. There's a LOT of material in 3.5, and there have been even more people interpreting (often incorrectly) the admittedly very complicated rules, so one must be careful to "fact-check" one's sources.

To further reinforce my point (and to serve as a helpful tool for interpreting rules in the future), note two features:

1) "Item Familiar" never states that it IS a familiar or that it interacts with the wiz/sorc feature in any way
2) Elven Generalist's "Natural Link" ability states that the "doubling" effect in question specifically REPLACES two of the normal familiar benefits, neither of which are granted by an item "familiar"

I would note, however, that you've already made use of two of the VERY best +Spellcraft options (custom item+spell familiar). Almost any character (incantatrix included) should be MORE than set with just the bonuses you already have in place. However, there are... other options.

Check out Guidance of the Avatar (http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a). For a boost to any single skill roll, there's simply no better option. Grab a wand, staff, runestaff, custom item, or knowstone of GotA and honestly, I can't imagine you'd need any further Spellcraft optimization.

Of course, it's a Cleric spell, so you might need to UMD it, depending on the item you choose to use. However, you already have a custom item of +Spellcraft, so a custom item of +UMD is probably an option, too!

Please let me know if you have any follow-up questions, and I apologize if my initial response came off as rude.

[Zhepna]

Wow honestly you are perfect for this community. I love your fast and in details answers. It was not rude at all.

Thanks for the advices for spellcraft and incantatrix. I already knew them but it's a pleasure to see other members of the community see what we try to construct and suggests things beyond our questions.

For the Guidance of the Avatar, you're right, it's the best boost. Since it's a divine spell, I'll not be able to craft or buy an eternal wand of it. However, we have a cleric in the group and I should be able to convince him to help me with that.

[tuesdayscoming]

That's kind of you to say!

You're quite right that Guidance of the Avatar CANNOT, as a divine spell, be put into an ETERNAL wand (at least not without other rules exploits/optimization to MAKE IT an arcane spell, which IS possible). However, it CAN be put onto a NORMAL divine wand.

If you were to buy such a wand and give it to your cleric, I'm SURE they'd be happy to use it for your benefit (especially if you used your Incantatrix abilities to metamagic THEIR spells, too!). However, YOU could use the wand yourself, if you can pass the DC 20 Use Magic Device (UMD) skill checks (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/useMagicDevice.htm).

Just in case you didn't know, UMD allows you to use wands and other magic items from other classes' spell lists. It's probably not worth it, since you already have a cleric, but is something that's worth knowing!

Happy hunting, Zhepna :smallbiggrin:

[Zhepna]

Thanks and have a nice week :smallwink:

[Zhepna]

I just realized... my custom +14 spellcraft item is a bonus to competence and Guidance of the Avatar is also a competence bonus so it doesn't stack.

Damn...

then I thought about Divine Insight but since the range is Personal, the cleric will not be able to cast it on me.

If I buy a wand, I'll have to success an UMD check but since I'm wizard/incantatrix, it will be a cross-skill so a low chance to succeed.

I have others ways to add spellcraft but they are less good.

On that subject. If we are not in combat, at the beginning of the days and I cast a spell with persist on it, can the other players each try to help me (so Aid Another) to each of them add me +2 spellcraft?

Do they also need to have at least point in spellcraft to do that? I thought about that because my familiar can do it so maybe players can contribute too.

[tuesdayscoming]

Oof! You're quite right on the competence v. competence issue. My apologies for neglecting that detail

Might I suggest you use Divine Insight (Spell Compendium 70, another level 2 cleric spell) for an up-to +15 INSIGHT bonus instead? It's not SRD material, so I can't link it w/in forum policy, but a google search will do ya (edit, as per below: sure it's range Personal, but just use UMD or a runestaff/knowstone!)

I'm not sure whether or not multiple 'Aid Another' actions stack, but I THINK they do. You'll have to look elsewhere to be certain.

EDITED: Cuz I forgot Divine Insight's bonus was based on CL; even at minimum CL to cast it, however, this will be a +8 insight bonus, which is quite significant

Further Edits:

Other options include:

Shape Soulmeld: Mage's Spectacles (feat) for +4 or more spellcraft (insight)
Butterfly Familiar: +3 (untyped?) spellcraft, Dragon Magazine 323(?) -- this IS affected by Elven Generalist bonuses!!!
Spellscale race (RotD 21, if you can still change your race): UNTYPED(?) bonus equal to 1/2 your CHARACTER level, as long as you choose the "Io" blood-quickening meditation each day; notably as good or BETTER than being an elf generalist w/ Butterfly familiar if you're character level 6+!
5 ranks in Knowledge (Arcana): Untyped +2 synergy bonus to spellcraft
1 level in Exemplar (CA 44): Loses you a caster level, but can always "Take 10" on spellcraft
I'm sure there are others, but those are what spring to mind

YET FURTHER EDITS: Sure, Divine Insight is Personal ranged -- but that just brings us back to discussion of Use Magic Device (or a Runestaff that lets you cast it with your slots :smallwink:)