Best build for a Paladin Tank in a group full of squishy ranged classes?

[Lunafeather]

Hi there! I am building a Paladin for my group with the intention of being the sole tank and melee. The other classes in my group are: Wizard, Wild Magic Sorcerer, Bard/Rogue or Bard/Cleric, and Warlock or Arcane Trickster Rogue (the latter two players haven't fully decided yet). Considering that all of these are generally ranged and somewhat fragile classes, I was wondering what the best build for a Paladin tank would be.

I was possibly looking at Sword + Shield, Dueling, and Oath of the Ancients, but would love to hear other builds! I have never played a Paladin nor played in a group with a paladin (and am actually relatively new to DnD in general). I am also not sure how I should assign abilities.

My Paladin will be a Protector Aasimar.

I am also considering dipping into Warlock for only 1 or 2 levels -- my character was the first child of her parents to survive to birth, and became deathly ill as an infant. Her father made a pact with an evil entity to save her life, not yet knowing she was an Aasimar (the entity did, however). She is haunted by this entity as she grows up, sometimes showing a dark side. I want to play with her turning Fallen at some point, which is the result of her making a pact with the entity that has been haunting her, possibly to save her father. But she fights off the entity's presence and returns to being a Protector Aasimar. No idea if that's planning too much in advance, though. I may not multi-class at all.

Thank you for any suggestions/ideas.

[CTurbo]

I love the backstory. I also love the potential multiclassing for story reasons and not for pure mechanics.

I think if you do multiclass, you should choose Vengeance. You could say that the evil entity's power over her has only strengthened her convictions.

Ancients is great, but I'm not sure how it would fit in with her backstory. Devotion seems like a good fit though.

If you're going to go Fallen at some point(which I would personally allow, but I don't think many would. Check with your DM), Conquest Paladin would be GREAT.

The 5e Paladin is really strong and I think you're going to love it. Personally, I prefer Paladins single classed, but multiclassing for story purposes trumps all. Get ready for thousands of posts insisting you take Hexblade. lol

Yeah Sword and Board for highest AC possible would be good.

[Frogreaver]

Hi there! I am building a Paladin for my group with the intention of being the sole tank and melee. The other classes in my group are: Wizard, Wild Magic Sorcerer, Bard/Rogue or Bard/Cleric, and Warlock or Arcane Trickster Rogue (the latter two players haven't fully decided yet). Considering that all of these are generally ranged and somewhat fragile classes, I was wondering what the best build for a Paladin tank would be.

I was possibly looking at Sword + Shield, Dueling, and Oath of the Ancients, but would love to hear other builds! I have never played a Paladin nor played in a group with a paladin (and am actually relatively new to DnD in general). I am also not sure how I should assign abilities.

My Paladin will be a Protector Aasimar.

I am also considering dipping into Warlock for only 1 or 2 levels -- my character was the first child of her parents to survive to birth, and became deathly ill as an infant. Her father made a pact with an evil entity to save her life, not yet knowing she was an Aasimar (the entity did, however). She is haunted by this entity as she grows up, sometimes showing a dark side. I want to play with her turning Fallen at some point, which is the result of her making a pact with the entity that has been haunting her, possibly to save her father. But she fights off the entity's presence and returns to being a Protector Aasimar. No idea if that's planning too much in advance, though. I may not multi-class at all.

Thank you for any suggestions/ideas.

So much depends on how your DM plays encounters. Will he try to bypass you to get to the squishies? Will he settle in on mostly attacking the one charging the monsters? The answer to those questions can change depending on how defensive you are compared to your allies.

Depending on his playstyle the build you should take will be different. If you don't have an idea of what that will be ahead of time I recommend taking defensive style and keeping your options between sword and shield or two handed weapons open.

In terms of subclass you can't go wrong with any. If I had to suggest one for your party I would suggest Oath of the Crown (not sure how that works out backstory wise though). It has a great ability to help keep enemies attacking you (I'm assuming that's what you want).

[kingcheesepants]

If the bard goes cleric he'll at least be passably tanky and can help you out in the front if need be. A straight Paladin does a good job in the front line but if you're the primary melee fighter you might need a few tricks to keep the enemies from passing you by to target the squishies in the back. One popular way to do this is with the Sentinel feat which prevents enemies from leaving combat with you. This feat pairs well with the Polearm Master feat which you can use with a spear and shield although you wouldn't be picking that up until level 8 at the earliest and more realistically at level 12 by which point your game may very well be entering its final phase.

[AttilatheYeon]

2 words Con-Quest

[Lord Vukodlak]

Oath of the Crown has some useful things,
Champion's Challenge can prevent a host of enemies from going more then 30ft from you, they also get Oath Spell such as Warding Bond, Compelled Duel and Spirit Guardians.

[kingcheesepants]

In reference to assigning abilities the important ones for Paladin are Str, Cha, Con, Dex, Wis, Int. In that order. In your case the intelligence is particularly unnecessary as you have a wizard and a bard in the party and between the two of them they should be able to deal with skill checks related to history and arcana and what have you. Strength needs to be high in order to hit things and do damage (especially as the primary melee combatant) you also need at least a 15 strength to use plate armor which you'll want ASAP. Charisma is for your spells, it's good to have that high but you may find that you don't need more than say a 16 or you may even squeak by with a 14. Con is needed to get that HP up. The rest are good to have but not quite as needed.

[nickl_2000]

It sounds like a perfect place to run a PAM/Sentinel Conquest Paladin. Since people are going to try and run past you to the squishes having a reaction that can stop them in their tracks is wonderful. Add onto that the level 7 aura that stops baddies from moving when they are frightened and you are doing an amazing job controlling the battlefield.

[da newt]

PAM with shield and spear/staff is superior to sword and shield - although there is a Feat cost and makes Dueling FS almost mandatory. Sentinel will help keep bad guys from moving away from you (but feat cost again).

IMO Conquest Paladin is the best control subclass and if you go that route, MAX CHA is a priority.

A Hexblade Warlock dip will allow you to use CHA as your att/dam stat so you can leave ST at 15 for plate armor.

Don't worry too much - it's hard to create a weak Paladin tank.

[Lunafeather]

So sorry for taking so long to respond to these suggestions!

We are starting our game this week, and this is the breakdown I have:

CHA 17 (15+2) / STR 16 / CON 14 / INT 12 / WIS 12 (11+1) / DEX 9 (we rolled for stats). I am thinking of switching Charisma and Strength especially if I do go warlock for a level or 2, and am also considering switching Dex and Int solely for RP purposes. The only reason I have the 9 in Dex and not Int/Wis is because I chose the Haunted One background, and none of my available proficiencies are Dex based, they are all Wis or Int. I will not be changing this unless I decide to do so for the aforementioned RP reasons, so please do not suggest it/insist on it.

Party-wise, the two undecided members switched things up, so now we are rolling with:
- Human Variant Circle of the Stars Druid (who is taking magic initiate to get Cleric spells)
- Illusion Wizard
- Arcane Trickster Rogue
- Wild Magic Sorcerer

I will be going with a re-flavored Oath of the Crown (Conquest is nice for tanking, but I could not in any way justify the spells offered by it based on my character's morals/personality). We also each get one Feat at level 1, and I chose Sentinel. I may choose PAM in the future, as I want to switch between S+S and a Glaive (cause it's cool as heck).

I plan to get to Lvl 6 as a Paladin before dipping into Warlock for a level or two.

What recommendations do you have for that dip? Is Hexblade the only option? Why do so many people believe it's the best choice? Is Hexblade a specific patron, or is it a specific Pact? Don't you have to take 3 levels to get a pact, and is that many levels worth it? How do the Paladin's spells/spell slots interact with the Warlocks, since they are technically different abilities?

Thanks again for all the help!

[diplomancer]

Conquest for sure, specially after level 7. Focus on Cha. Try to get Pipes of Haunting. Sword and shield until you can afford Pole Arm Master, then spear/staff and shield.
Consider a 1 level hexblade dip, but only after level 9.

[Mikal]

Honestly I wouldn’t dip at all.

Warlock brings you NOTHING, compared to what you can already do with your stats as is.
If you go conquest, there’s really just better stuff every level. Warlock just slows that progression down. And if you wanna tank the best you choose conquest.

[Eldariel]

Hmm, with a party like that I think it's important to make sure you have reasonable ranged prowess to complement your melee.

Your party looks like it can make great use of kiting tactics...if you aren't forced to run into melee. Now, if you make sure you have the option of getting out of melee and shooting people in the face efficiently (two levels of Warlock for Agonizing Blast + Eldritch Blast is probably the easiest option to that end and you could get Hexblade for Cha-based melee too), you can kite when it suits you and melee when it, again, suits you. This would also get you Armor of Agathys which is a great way to enhance your HP total and overall, it'd go nice. I'd definitely go Ancients if I were meant to especially be durable as being able to halve all the nukes thrown your way is just great especially if you have a lot of temporary HP. This build could go Cha 16/Con 16 and just max out Cha and focus on your durability (stuff like Heavy Armor Master and Tough looks almost appealing when you're a lone frontline without much in terms of class-based extra durability). PAM wouldn't be a bad idea and you do indeed want to pick up Sentinel at some point though with your Smites I find it unlikely that people would commonly try and ignore you.


So Hexblade 2/Ancients Pally 7ish seems great and then you can advance Sorcerer (for Twin Spell and Quicken Spell abuse) or Bard (for Magical Secrets abuse) if you want bigger smiting and Agathys and such or Pally if you want Improved Divine Smite and the random goodies it provides down the line. All of those are fine options, really. Bard 11 or Sorc 11 would still give you a 6th level spell and 14th level slots so that wouldn't be so bad. Though Hexblade 2/Ancients Pally 18 would also be very solid far as being an untouchable and unmovable frontline goes.

EDIT: Warlock 3 is actually still reasonable: 2 SR recovery slots is great for Smiting and you get Pact (Chain is the best here; makes twice the sense too, if you wanna fall to have a physical manifestation for the spirit manipulating you).

The second Invocation is really between Eldritch Spear and Repelling Blast. For kiting Repelling Blast is better but Eldritch Spear gives you enough range to hit kiting flying targets and such so I'd go with that.

[ff7hero]

Outside the box thought, and acknowledging up front this probably isn't actually what OP is looking for, but the thread title gave me an idea I wanted to share. It does still dip Warlock, but spoiler alert, it's not Hexblade.

As a Paladin, if your party is standing back, rushing forward to engage means taking them out of your aura in most cases. Instead, I would want to lean into my party basically being a walking artillery battery and make sure my ranged game was also on point.

With that in mind, I would eventually go Ancients Paladin with Protection fighting style, but I'd take my second and third level in Warlock for that juicy Eldritch Blast.

It would have a bit of a slow start. Level 1 you're basically "just" a Paladin, but it amps up by level 3, which is pretty good. Eventually you'll fight with a shield and empty hand to Blast and Protect against any ranged attacks against the squishies.

Great Old Ones would be the Patron I'd use for this. If anyone gets in close, draw your weapon and cast Dissonant Whispers. If the enemy fails their save, you and maybe some party members can make OAs. In later levels you can snag Warcaster to Booming Blade for guaranteed rider damage.

[Eldariel]

Outside the box thought, and acknowledging up front this probably isn't actually what OP is looking for, but the thread title gave me an idea I wanted to share. It does still dip Warlock, but spoiler alert, it's not Hexblade.

As a Paladin, if your party is standing back, rushing forward to engage means taking them out of your aura in most cases. Instead, I would want to lean into my party basically being a walking artillery battery and make sure my ranged game was also on point.

With that in mind, I would eventually go Ancients Paladin with Protection fighting style, but I'd take my second and third level in Warlock for that juicy Eldritch Blast.

It would have a bit of a slow start. Level 1 you're basically "just" a Paladin, but it amps up by level 3, which is pretty good. Eventually you'll fight with a shield and empty hand to Blast and Protect against any ranged attacks against the squishies.

Great Old Ones would be the Patron I'd use for this. If anyone gets in close, draw your weapon and cast Dissonant Whispers. If the enemy fails their save, you and maybe some party members can make OAs. In later levels you can snag Warcaster to Booming Blade for guaranteed rider damage.

I think Hexblade is just too good to skip on ESPECIALLY if you wanna switch hit melee and range. Otherwise your melee will fall way behind as you can't up your To Hit (or your blasts will fall into mediocrity without Cha pumps), but with Hexblade you can just pump Cha and Con and get full benefit out of everything.

[Nidgit]

Yeah, a Hexblade dip is great for Paladins and gives them Shield, SADness, and better odds of a crit. All those things are excellent. But it's a heavily overused build that shouldn't be forced upon you by the forum. Fiend would be a fine Patron that regularly gains you a little temp HP and would match the flavor quite well. Genie from Tasha's offers a consistent damage boost, with Bottled Respite potentially making it easy for you to bypass some stealth sections despite having heavy armor. I'd probably go Djinni or Marid for the particular type of Genie Patron due to the useful spell options. Celestial would also be a solid pick if the flavor didn't clash so much.

As far as what Paladin subclass you should take, just take whatever feels right for the character! Vengeance Paladin would probably be my lowest-ranked pick but even it would work fine. Redemption would probably be another to stay away from given your party composition. Ancients, as someone above mentioned, would be fantastic in that your allies could nuke your location with spells and you'd still be ok. It created some difficult/interesting roleplay options though, on that if you want your Aasimar to Fall for a bit, it'll be rather difficult to justify not becoming an Oathbreaker Paladin given Ancients' particular tenets about being good and cheerful. But Crown and Devotion could both work well for your desired flavor as well and both are pretty mechanically sound.

In terms of fighting style and feats, this heavily depends on your GM's style. If they usually have enemies just attack whoever's closest, you're probably fine tanking up with a shield and picking Dueling. Heavy Armor Master could be a nice choice here if you have an uneven Strength score. If they're the type to have enemies prioritize threats, you need to be a bigger problem for enemies. Ditch the shield and go for some heavier weaponry, take Polearm Master or Great Weapon Master, and pick Defense style to mitigate the AC loss. Either way, Sentinel is an excellent feat to grab fairly early to make you extra sticky.

Just don't go quarterstaff and shield with PAM and Dueling. That's a cheese build and everyone knows it.

[Segev]

Bugbear PAM/sentinel is one of the best barriers to passing by you that you can get.

Now, you’re going Aasimar, so that doesn’t help; I only mention it for completeness.

As for Conquest vs Crown, if you go single-class, perhaps that dark influence corrupts his Oath rather than giving him Warlock levels.

Ancients does give a delicious magic resistance. And the entangle effect can hold some enemies back.

Javelins and other strength-based melee weapons that can be thrown give you SAD for your ranged attacks, though admittedly javelins have disadvantage to hit beyond 30 feet. You might want a backup bow for medium-range combat, unless you’re approximately -5 to hit compared to with a javelin (which is unusual but not impossible).

Under my house rules this wouldn’t work, but by base rules, if neither you nor your target can see each other, the advantage and disadvantage cancel out, so a fog cloud or darkness spell can work to your advantage here. Heck, darkness works to your advantage entirely, if you don’t treat it as an ink blot but instead treat it the way you would standing in the dark and attacking a creature carrying a torch.

[Eldariel]

Yeah, a Hexblade dip is great for Paladins and gives them Shield, SADness, and better odds of a crit. All those things are excellent. But it's a heavily overused build that shouldn't be forced upon you by the forum.

I don't get this logic. How does something being heavily overrecommended in a forum affect your private games? If it's not overused in your own games, it seems to me there's no problem. And even if it is, why does it matter what anyone else plays? Play what makes you happy, not what somebody else tries to tell you to. Basically, if the OP themself isn't playing a Hexblade, I don't see a problem with going that route. Indeed, these are recommendations: it seems completely pointless to tell someone "don't play this because people recommend it too much". Indeed, that seems counterproductive. Isn't it the asker's business to decide what they want to play with us merely providing ideas for what works and what doesn't? Could you please explain your thinking here? What's wrong with popular, effective builds?

[Petrocorus]

CHA 17 (15+2) / STR 16 / CON 14 / INT 12 / WIS 12 (11+1) / DEX 9 (we rolled for stats). I am thinking of switching Charisma and Strength especially if I do go warlock for a level or 2, and am also considering switching Dex and Int solely for RP purposes. The only reason I have the 9 in Dex and not Int/Wis is because I chose the Haunted One background, and none of my available proficiencies are Dex based, they are all Wis or Int. I will not be changing this unless I decide to do so for the aforementioned RP reasons, so please do not suggest it/insist on it.

I should point out there are slightly more ways to even Str than Cha with half-feats (feats that gives you a +1 in an ability).
If you go Hexblade 3 or Hexblade 1 but without PAM, put 16 in Cha to get a 18.
You may want to do the same if you choose Conquest Paladin, and then tak Heavy Armor Master to even the Strength.



I will be going with a re-flavored Oath of the Crown (Conquest is nice for tanking, but I could not in any way justify the spells offered by it based on my character's morals/personality). We also each get one Feat at level 1, and I chose Sentinel. I may choose PAM in the future, as I want to switch between S+S and a Glaive (cause it's cool as heck).

PAM + Sentinel is really a good way for martial to make crowd control.



I plan to get to Lvl 6 as a Paladin before dipping into Warlock for a level or two.

What recommendations do you have for that dip? Is Hexblade the only option? Why do so many people believe it's the best choice?

This is mostly because this Patron's level 1 feature is to allow to key weapon attacks to Cha. Making your character a Single Ability Dependent character, or SAD. Which allows you to focus your ASI on Cha and not to have to pump up two or three abilities.
But the other level 1 feature is also quite good, and rise with proficiency bonus, not class level, which makes it ideal for multiclassing.
And in addition, this patron gives access to the Shield spell, perfect for a tank.

Plus of course what all Warlock give you, Eldritch Blast + Agonizing Blast, Devil's Sight or Fiendish Vigor, Spells slot for your Smite, Hex, etc.



Is Hexblade a specific patron, or is it a specific Pact? Don't you have to take 3 levels to get a pact, and is that many levels worth it?

It's a Patron, not a Pact. From the Xanathar's Guide to Everything. But you do need the Pact of the Blade in order to use your SAD feature with heavy weapon like Glaives or Halberds.

Is it worth it to take 3 level of Warlock? This is a matter of appreciation and you'll probably receive both answers.
Warlock 3 gives you a lot of goodies, but cost you 3 level of progression of Paladin, which is a lot. And Paladin is a class that really gets a lot of goodies too. You'll notably want to reach level 7 ASAP for the auras.

So, in order to evaluate if multiclassing would be worthy for you, you should first ponder what you expect exactly to get by multiclassing, do you really need this things (depending on the campaign, party composition, roles you want to fill, etc) , and what they will cost you and weight the gain and the cost.
If the point is only to have a back-up range attack, then a feat might be better.
It is also dependant on how long the campaign will last. Multiclassing in a campaign that will go up to level 5, like Lost Mine of Phandelver for instance, is usually a waste, unless you really know what you're doing.



How do the Paladin's spells/spell slots interact with the Warlocks, since they are technically different abilities?

Warlock spell slot are a different pool of spell slot that don't combine with normal spell slot, but are counted separately. Which is why the Warlock dip is so good on Paladin, because you get 1 spell slot that you regain on a short rest in addition of your Paladin spell slot.

[Nidgit]

I don't get this logic. How does something being heavily overrecommended in a forum affect your private games? If it's not overused in your own games, it seems to me there's no problem. And even if it is, why does it matter what anyone else plays? Play what makes you happy, not what somebody else tries to tell you to. Basically, if the OP themself isn't playing a Hexblade, I don't see a problem with going that route. Indeed, these are recommendations: it seems completely pointless to tell someone "don't play this because people recommend it too much". Indeed, that seems counterproductive. Isn't it the asker's business to decide what they want to play with us merely providing ideas for what works and what doesn't? Could you please explain your thinking here? What's wrong with popular, effective builds?
OP literally questioned if Hexblade is the only option. My point was that yes, it's quite good, but it's not the required pick.

As far as popularity goes, there are a good number of people who don't want to pick the perfectly optimized, most commonly used option. Going with something a little more unique can make your character feel special. If that's not important to you, that's fine. But the OP seemed a little reluctant to plan on going Hexblade and I wanted to make it clear that's a valid opinion.

[micahaphone]

OP I see you picked Crown and that is certainly a great choice that I won't discourage, but I also wanted to suggest that you can rework the flavor/tenets of the Oath of Conquest, so that it's not doing evil/authortarian vibes. It's a great thing to workshop with your DM, so you ensure your vision fits within their world and they get a better understanding of your character.




And while I understand that Hexblade carries many fine goodies in exchange for only 1 or 2 levels, you'll still want decent strength for your armor, and mono classed paladin is still very strong. Getting your higher level spell slots already takes long enough with paladin, and the extra HP/bonuses to saves/Lay on Hands, all that is great for being the party's tank.

[Arkhios]

Two-Weapon Fighting and Dual Wielder isn't all that bad idea with a paladin, even though you can't take the fighting style (at least not without DM's permission).

I speak from personal experience, as I have played one with great results. Divine Favor is one of the best spells for this specific purpose, because the effect clings to you, not any specific weapon or target creature (such as Hex or Hunter's Mark, respectively), so each attack you hit with deals the extra damage, and you can still be a tank with heavy armor proficiency, defense fighting style, and Dual Wielder feat, since the latter two give you in total a +2 bonus to AC, as if you had a shield.
The biggest advantage is, however, more attacks = more chances to make critical hits = more chances to land devastating smites (and, to be honest, paladin should reserve their divine smites for critical hits ONLY). Once you get to 11th paladin level, all your attacks benefit from Improved Divine Smite. Including your bonus attack with another weapon.

In a group of squishies myself, I've found that my brute force approach benefits the group the most. The sooner our enemies fall, the more likely my companions are to survive.

[Chugger]

Best is relative. If you're fighting something that is casting fireballs on the party - a bad wizard, flame skulls - you'll wish you'd gone Ancients. If you're fighting a swarm of creatures that go past you and get to the squishies, you'd wish you'd gone conquest or crown maybe. If you're fighting a boss that's really hard to kill and magic wind limits their arrows and ranged spells - you'll wish you'd gone vengeance.

Spirit Guardians, which I think conquest gets, helps a lot - difficult terrain - things can't just run past you - they get slowed. But this often just slows them one round, then they're on the squishies. You hurt them as they went past you, but they got past you. A lot of tanking tactics only stop one creature - like compel duel or if you dipped ancestor barb or cavalier. That area fear and aura that keeps things from moving is pretty good on a mob of mooks. But it's not great for all fights.

Go with whatever you like. Make it work. And sometimes squishies need to misty step or sumpin out of trouble! I created a Devotion Pal for Curse of Strahd - he's great - his devotion stuff is actually very hand - and being able to turn undead is great (when undead attack).

[Nhorianscum]

Hi there! I am building a Paladin for my group with the intention of being the sole tank and melee. The other classes in my group are: Wizard, Wild Magic Sorcerer, Bard/Rogue or Bard/Cleric, and Warlock or Arcane Trickster Rogue (the latter two players haven't fully decided yet). Considering that all of these are generally ranged and somewhat fragile classes, I was wondering what the best build for a Paladin tank would be.

I was possibly looking at Sword + Shield, Dueling, and Oath of the Ancients, but would love to hear other builds! I have never played a Paladin nor played in a group with a paladin (and am actually relatively new to DnD in general). I am also not sure how I should assign abilities.

My Paladin will be a Protector Aasimar.

I am also considering dipping into Warlock for only 1 or 2 levels -- my character was the first child of her parents to survive to birth, and became deathly ill as an infant. Her father made a pact with an evil entity to save her life, not yet knowing she was an Aasimar (the entity did, however). She is haunted by this entity as she grows up, sometimes showing a dark side. I want to play with her turning Fallen at some point, which is the result of her making a pact with the entity that has been haunting her, possibly to save her father. But she fights off the entity's presence and returns to being a Protector Aasimar. No idea if that's planning too much in advance, though. I may not multi-class at all.

Thank you for any suggestions/ideas.

In regards to the premise of "squishies" that really depends on how your casters play, it's actually kinda plausible that all of them might be able to burst up to more defenses than your paladin has.

Similarly with a whopping 4 arcane fullcasters the battlefield is pretty much controlled by default.

So... play what you like. Really it's not tenable to full on tank in 5e. Just have fun with it and build the thing you most envision as a tank and it'll do the job as well as anything.