Sorcerer variants

[Biggus]

I was thinking about the specialist and focused specialist options for Wizards, where they gain more spell-slots in exchange for narrowing their focus, and it occurred to me you could do the reverse for Sorcerers; reduce their spell slots in exchange for extra spells known.

The simplest way would be to give one extra spell known at each level and one less spell per day at each level, or two extra and two less. I'm not sure how playable the latter would be, but I think the former could work.

Does anything like this exist in the rulebooks? If not, has anyone tried making anything along these lines themselves? How did it play if so?

EDIT: it appears the answer to these questions is no, so I'd now like to know: would you allow variant Sorcerers who exchange spells per day for spells known in the manner I suggested in your games? If not, why not?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Wizards' scarce resource is spells/day, so they sacrifice versatility to gain more of those. Sorcerers' scarce resource is spells known, and they also have an option available to sacrifice versatility to get more of those. In Dragon Compendium you'll find the Bloodline feats, which sacrifice being able to cast spells with a specific descriptor (such as fire, or glamour, or healing) to get a specific list of additional spells known, one per spell level. These actually work for any spontaneous arcane spellcaster, so a Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Warmage, etc. could also take these to expand their repertoire.

There's also getting a custom Runestaff (MIC p224), preferably as an Ancestral Relic but that's a bit too good for most tables.

[Troacctid]

Does anything like this exist in the rulebooks? If not, has anyone tried making anything along these lines themselves? How did it play if so?
There aren't any sorcerer variants to this effect, no. All the ACFs that reduce your spell slots actually reduce your spells known, so if anything it's the opposite.

However, any prestige class that loses casting but grants additional spells known is essentially doing what you describe. (Sand shaper, exalted arcanist, recaster, etc.)

[Thurbane]

If Dragon material is allowed, Knowstones are a great way to exchange resources (wealth) for more spells known.

[NigelWalmsley]

Honestly you could just give the Sorcerer some extra spells known and that would be fine. They're kinda shafted compared to both Wizards and the fixed-list casters.

In terms of RAW options, your best bets are Knowstones, Runestaves, Arcane Disciple, and Arcane Preparation => Mage of the Arcane Order.

[Darg]

2 levels chameleon and extra spell feat can switch out a spell every day.

[Thurbane]

There's some feat based options as well:

Bloodline (Dragon Compendium) [as mentioned]

Apprentice (spellcaster)
Blessed of the Seven Sisters
Celestial Sorcerer Lore
Draconic Legacy
Extra Spell
Improved Oneiromancy
Mother Cyst

...there's probably others I've omitted.

[Darg]

Arcane Disciple feat with the spell domain. Anyspell gives you the ability to prepare spells (one per cast) of certain levels as long as you have the arcane writing to read. It even lets you bypass the check in order to read the spell if its not your spell book. It even lets you apply any metamagic you want as it will only ever use 3rd level slots or 6th for the greater version.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Pathfinder favored class benefits gives certain races extra spells known if you pick a spontaneous caster as your favored class. I'm talking +1 spell known per Sorcerer level, but you can only pick spells up to one level lower than the highest level you can currently cast.

[Biggus]

Thank you for the suggestions, but I wasn't asking "are there other ways for Sorcerers to get extra spells known?" I was asking "is there a Sorcerer variant which exchanges spells per day for spells known?". It appears the answer is no, so now I'll change the question to: would you allow variant Sorcerers of the kind I specified in your games? If not, why not?

[Thurbane]

Thank you for the suggestions, but I wasn't asking "are there other ways for Sorcerers to get extra spells known?" I was asking "is there a Sorcerer variant which exchanges spells per day for spells known?". It appears the answer is no, so now I'll change the question to: would you allow variant Sorcerers of the kind I specified in your games? If not, why not?

As a DM? Yes. I'd allow a Sorcerer to exchange spells/day (or access to spell schools) for spells known.

[Darg]

Thank you for the suggestions, but I wasn't asking "are there other ways for Sorcerers to get extra spells known?" I was asking "is there a Sorcerer variant which exchanges spells per day for spells known?". It appears the answer is no, so now I'll change the question to: would you allow variant Sorcerers of the kind I specified in your games? If not, why not?

The trade off for having more spells known is always losing spells known. I personally would allow a variant that sacrifices spell slots for spells known.

I personally like the idea of a versatile spellcaster like ability. Spend 2 spell slots of the same level to cast any spell with a level that matches the sacrificed slots on the sorcerer spell list. This reduces the caster level by one which might prevent the spell from being cast if it brings the caster level below the minimum.

I also like the idea of a bloodline sorcerer which is similar to the domain access variant, but gives an extra spell known when you gain access to a new level at the cost of 1 spell slot per spell level and your first 2 spells known are predetermined by a list.

There was one game where a player used the spirit shaman casting style for his sorcerer with an extra spell known per level, -1 spell slot, and kept the spontaneous metamagic. I think it turned out alright.

[NigelWalmsley]

Thank you for the suggestions, but I wasn't asking "are there other ways for Sorcerers to get extra spells known?" I was asking "is there a Sorcerer variant which exchanges spells per day for spells known?". It appears the answer is no, so now I'll change the question to: would you allow variant Sorcerers of the kind I specified in your games? If not, why not?

As noted, I would give them more spells known for free, so it seems fairly clear that you could justify giving them more spells known at some cost. That said, it seems like this mostly just encourages the 15-minute workday, so I think there's a real chance that this particular cost is less healthy for the game than "free" would be.


I personally like the idea of a versatile spellcaster like ability. Spend 2 spell slots of the same level to cast any spell with a level that matches the sacrificed slots on the sorcerer spell list. This reduces the caster level by one which might prevent the spell from being cast if it brings the caster level below the minimum.

There are several thousand spells on the Sorcerer list. Asking players to look through that at play time with any non-trivial frequency seems like it would immediately grind the game to a screeching halt.

[Darg]

There are several thousand spells on the Sorcerer list. Asking players to look through that at play time with any non-trivial frequency seems like it would immediately grind the game to a screeching halt.

Really? Maybe I've just been playing around a reliable bunch. That and we stick mostly to the 1st party material. It's also good manners not to just say "Hold up guys, I'mma see if I can find a spell that I don't know exists that is the perfect solution to our situation." As a DM I would rein it in and say that if the player can't think of the spell then obviously his character couldn't either. The player should do the homework prior to coming to the table.