Sith Lord build

[DarthOccultarus]

So I am planning on trying out a "Sith Sorcerer" sort of character. At first I thought Wizard, but the expenses for obtaining new spells are ridiculously high. Any tips? I am trying to reach level 20 and Multiclassing is a possibility.

[Blood of Gaea]

There's no reason to rely on buying or copying spells as a Wizard. You start with six spells and get two per level. By 20th level you have 44 spells know, much more than any other caster.

[kalkyrie]

Depending on your campaign, you may not be able to buy magical items. If that's true, you will have little to spend your gold on *apart* from scribing spells.

[Unoriginal]

So I am planning on trying out a "Sith Sorcerer" sort of character. At first I thought Wizard, but the expenses for obtaining new spells are ridiculously high. Any tips? I am trying to reach level 20 and Multiclassing is a possibility.

"Sith Sorcerer" is still a rather large character concept, which could be emulated by Bard, Artificer, Warlock and Wizard without much refluff, and by other classes with a bit more refluffing.

What do you want your character to be able to do, exactly?

[TheCleverGuy]

To me, Jedi or Sith are best represented by the Great Old One Warlock, with Pact of the Blade. Your patron is The Force itself, you get mind powers, your pact weapon is your lightsaber (bonus points if you have a Sun Sword). You can fluff Eldritch Blast as simple Force pushes, especially if you get the Repelling Blast invocation. Witch Bolt is basically Force lightning already.

[DarthOccultarus]

"Sith Sorcerer" is still a rather large character concept, which could be emulated by Bard, Artificer, Warlock and Wizard without much refluff, and by other classes with a bit more refluffing.

What do you want your character to be able to do, exactly?

As to what I want to do, I want to create a powerful Character who specializes in dealing damage by lightning and dark power, has maybe a small healing ability, and the ability to manipulate people

[DarthOccultarus]

To me, Jedi or Sith are best represented by the Great Old One Warlock, with Pact of the Blade. Your patron is The Force itself, you get mind powers, your pact weapon is your lightsaber (bonus points if you have a Sun Sword). You can fluff Eldritch Blast as simple Force pushes, especially if you get the Repelling Blast invocation. Witch Bolt is basically Force lightning already.

Witch Bolt may be like force lightning, but it is pretty shoddy in terms of usage. It deals low damage and can be rather easily walked away from

[cutlery]

As to what I want to do, I want to create a powerful Character who specializes in dealing damage by lightning and dark power, has maybe a small healing ability, and the ability to manipulate people

Warlock sort of gets you there. You'll have to pretend that eldritch blast looks like lightning, or take a patron that grants access to lightning bolt/call lightning. Blade pact for the magic sword in hand thing. Telekinesis would be another good one, and mage hand, too.

The 5e classes don't work great for this, though, nor do the spells. The flavor is different, and not too many of the mechanics match up.

I think a monk might work better; could go 4 elements for the lightning and gaining deflect missiles; dip Fighter to 3 for EK to pick up mage hand, weapon bond, action surge.

You'll be MAD and not optimal, but thats what it would take to get the most fitting set of jedi/sith abilities.

Fighter/sorcerer/monk might work too, but that's even more MAD.

[nickl_2000]

Have you considered artificer? Especially the UA Armorer.

Cantrip: Shocking Grasp
Level 1: Jump, Cure Wounds (force jump), Longstrider (speed)
Level 2: Invisibility
Level 3: Elemental Weapon, Lightning Bolt, Hypnotic Pattern

Guardian style armor for the lightning launcher.

It actually could be used to make a decent Darth Vader.

[Unoriginal]

As to what I want to do, I want to create a powerful Character who specializes in dealing damage by lightning and dark power, has maybe a small healing ability, and the ability to manipulate people

Maybe a Storm Sorcerer, then?




It actually could be used to make a decent Darth Vader.

Darth Vader wasn't a Sith Sorcerer, though.

Even before getting stuck in the armor he used the Force more like a beatstick than anything else.

[KorvinStarmast]

So I am planning on trying out a "Sith Sorcerer" sort of character. At first I thought Wizard, but the expenses for obtaining new spells are ridiculously high. Any tips? I am trying to reach level 20 and Multiclassing is a possibility.
You might want to try the College of Whispers Bard 17 / Warlock 3 (Pact of blade) (Any old patron will do, but I'd suggest GOO).
College of Whispers bard seems to be the kind of character whose charisma and scheming fits into how the Sith operate. I suggest 17 to eventually get level 9 spells, but if you can live without them, take it Whispers Bard 15 / Bladelock 5.
Bladelock seems to fit into the two-handed light saber wielding Jedi with eldritch blast (Repelling and agonizing Blast).

Yes, you can take hexblade, sure, why not? Charisima is the be all and end all for the Sith Lord, is it not? Persuasion, Deception, etcetera ...

Anyhoo, that's my suggestion.

[nickl_2000]

Maybe a Storm Sorcerer, then?




Darth Vader wasn't a Sith Sorcerer, though.

Even before getting stuck in the armor he used the Force more like a beatstick than anything else.

That is a solid point, I did just want to point on the other options out there for something a little bit different.

[zinycor]

Warforged eldritch knight for a Quick Vader.

You might also try Sorcadin (conquest Paladin is very fitting)

If you feel more caster inclined, pretty much any fits as long as you play it evil.

Edit: if you wanting force lightning, storm sorcerer and storm cleric have plenty of sinergies.

[Unoriginal]

That is a solid point, I did just want to point on the other options out there for something a little bit different.

More than fair, it's important to examine the question under all angles.


As to what I want to do, I want to create a powerful Character who specializes in dealing damage by lightning and dark power, has maybe a small healing ability, and the ability to manipulate people

Sorry to keep asking questions, but do you want any kind of melee capacities?

If you do, Githyanki would be a good choice. The psionic powers it grants would be good for a Sith-style PC, and it also gives you proficiency in armor up to medium as well as in short, long and great swordfighting. Plus the bonus skill proficiency and language proficiency are fitting for a Sith Sorcerer.

[GlenSmash!]

As to what I want to do, I want to create a powerful Character who specializes in dealing damage by lightning and dark power, has maybe a small healing ability, and the ability to manipulate people

A bard might be the easiest way to get all those options. Storm sorcery could certainly work too. Tempest Cleric to a dark god (or refluffed as a the dark side) could work too, but you don't get charisma casting and don't have a lot of manipulate people options outside of hold person.

[DarthOccultarus]

More than fair, it's important to examine the question under all angles.



Sorry to keep asking questions, but do you want any kind of melee capacities?

If you do, Githyanki would be a good choice. The psionic powers it grants would be good for a Sith-style PC, and it also gives you proficiency in armor up to medium as well as in short, long and great swordfighting. Plus the bonus skill proficiency and language proficiency are fitting for a Sith Sorcerer.

Not really aiming for much in the melee. I am aiming for a character with Valkorion-ish vibes.

[NorthernPhoenix]

Straight Bladesinger is probably the least complicated way to do this. You're fine in melee, lightly armored, and get all the spells that could represent the powers Sith use.

[Unoriginal]

Not really aiming for much in the melee. I am aiming for a character with Valkorion-ish vibes.

I'm not familiar with Valkorion, but if you're not interested in melee then I really suggest the Storm Sorcerer.

[zinycor]

I'm not familiar with Valkorion, but if you're not interested in melee then I really suggest the Storm Sorcerer.

I agree with this.

[sithlordnergal]

Hmmm, you wanna be the Immortal Emperor eh? Well, here's what I got for ya!


Sith Sorcerer

Race: Half-Elf

Class: Lore Bard 19 /Storm Sorcerer 1


Str: 8

Dex: 14

Con: 13+1

Int: 12

Wis: 11+1

Cha: 14+2



You can start out with a total of 7 skills, 3 from Bard and 4 from Half-Elf plus Background, and one to two Tool Proficencies. You'll get 3 more Proficencies at level 3. I'd suggest


Acrobatics
Arcana
Deception
History
Insight
Intimidation
Investigation
Perception
Stealth
Performance or Slight of Hand





Now, sadly there aren't a ton of Lightning spells available at low levels. However, you do have some options:

For your Sorcerer spells, I'd snag Chaos Bolt or Chromatic Orb and Shield, with Shocking Grasp as your Cantrip. Those will handle your ranged low level Lightning attacks far better than Witch Bolt can.

Later on as a Lore Bard you can get Call Lightning and Lightning Bolt at Bard 6, Storm Sphere at Bard 10, Whirlwind at Bard 14, and Wish at Bard 18. That'll basically net you everything you need for Lightning Damage and gives you some of the best Lightning spells available. As a Bard you'll have access to some crippling Psychic damage spells, illusions, and enchantments, all of which are well within his abilities.

[Lille]

I mean, for ranged lightning options, you could use Lightning Lure. It's not amazing, but it is a ranged cantrip. For a multiclass character, it's fun to combine with the Tempest Cleric's knockback ability.

[zinycor]

You could also just ask your GM to have all your spells turn into lightning/thunder damage.

Personally I would accept.

[Unoriginal]

You could also just ask your GM to have all your spells turn into lightning/thunder damage.

Personally I would accept.

The Pyromancer Sorcerer subclass explicitly mentions it can be modded for other types of damage IIRC, but it's still in the realm of homebrewing and UAs.

[J-H]

Psi Knight and some of the associated feats did a great job of replicating Darth Vader. Stop incoming damage. Hit really hard. Jump long distances. Read minds. Shove people or things with your mind. The only thing it didn't cover was Force Choke.

[sithlordnergal]

Psi Knight and some of the associated feats did a great job of replicating Darth Vader. Stop incoming damage. Hit really hard. Jump long distances. Read minds. Shove people or things with your mind. The only thing it didn't cover was Force Choke.

Ehhh, downside is he wants to be more like Valkorion...Valkorion was far more akin to Darth Sidious than he was to Darth Vader. So instead of a power house in armor that looks like he can crush your head, you have an unassuming fellow who's just lived forever and can turn you to dust with a a flick of the wrist and some lightning.

[zinycor]

Ehhh, downside is he wants to be more like Valkorion...Valkorion was far more akin to Darth Sidious than he was to Darth Vader. So instead of a power house in armor that looks like he can crush your head, you have an unassuming fellow who's just lived forever and can turn you to dust with a a flick of the wrist and some lightning.

Btw, turning into a lich is always cool, and something very dark side. Try making it one of your character goals.

[cutlery]

Btw, turning into a lich is always cool, and something very dark side. Try making it one of your character goals.

If you can be a lich, be a lich.

[zinycor]

If you can be a lich, be a lich.

Words to unlive by.

[TheCleverGuy]

Witch Bolt may be like force lightning, but it is pretty shoddy in terms of usage. It deals low damage and can be rather easily walked away from

There are lots of ways your party members can keep an enemy from moving out of range. Grapple, trip, even just move to block their path. I agree that the damage isn't great, but it's an automatic hit every round after the initial casting. Not too bad, IMO.

[Brawnspear]

If the plan is for a Fearcerer I too suggest Conquest Paladin up to at least 7 to make people choke on their own fear. Go up to level 8 for another ASi/feat. You get some healing from Paladin with Cure wounds and Lay On Hands, as well as spiritual weapon for that Force Hammer.
For the rest, go Divine Soul Sorcerer, you can pick up all the lightning spells you want that way, and also have access to things like chill touch, toll the dead, inflict wounds, necrotic Spirit Guardians and fear (Or go up to 9 in paladin to get it as a domain spell).

If you don't want the beatstick of paladin, you can pick up the Menacing feat from the skill feats UA and replace at least 1 attack with an attempt to frighten someone, which you can use to great effect with your choking fear aura.

[DarthOccultarus]

There are lots of ways your party members can keep an enemy from moving out of range. Grapple, trip, even just move to block their path. I agree that the damage isn't great, but it's an automatic hit every round after the initial casting. Not too bad, IMO.

Is there a reliable method that can be used by the player casting witch bolt?

[DarthOccultarus]

If the plan is for a Fearcerer I too suggest Conquest Paladin up to at least 7 to make people choke on their own fear. Go up to level 8 for another ASi/feat. You get some healing from Paladin with Cure wounds and Lay On Hands, as well as spiritual weapon for that Force Hammer.
For the rest, go Divine Soul Sorcerer, you can pick up all the lightning spells you want that way, and also have access to things like chill touch, toll the dead, inflict wounds, necrotic Spirit Guardians and fear (Or go up to 9 in paladin to get it as a domain spell).

If you don't want the beatstick of paladin, you can pick up the Menacing feat from the skill feats UA and replace at least 1 attack with an attempt to frighten someone, which you can use to great effect with your choking fear aura.

Not quite going for the fear-centric abilities. I shall probably be taking the menacing feat, but fear is somewhat secondary to having a wide range of lightning abilities

[Joe the Rat]

If you do, Githyanki would be a good choice. The psionic powers it grants would be good for a Sith-style PC, and it also gives you proficiency in armor up to medium as well as in short, long and great swordfighting. Plus the bonus skill proficiency and language proficiency are fitting for a Sith Sorcerer.

Githyanki is a really solid base for going Sith. The fact that the Githzerai are just a wee bit Jedah makes it work on theme. Plus that gives you all the sword proficiencies you need for a Sun Sword or Flametongue, and let go of Pact of the Blade altogether.



If you were going for a Darth Zannah style SS, I'd say GOOlock and Whisper Bard all day long. But she was a bit more of a mind melter.
For Lightning-a-Go-Go, Storm Sorc. has a lot going for it. The option to float with any cast spell has a cool vibe to it, and sorcerer leans well into elemental-focused lists. Draconic has potential as well - makes you tougher, element-theme is strong, with boosting options. Not sure about the wings though.

Coming back to Warlock for a sec, the UA (and soon TCoE) Djinn Genie Warlock brings a bit of thunder, and wind. Having your own personal meditation chamber would up the vibes, though it might be a bit odd that it's also pocket-sized.

If you are eyeing Wizard, don't sweat the costs so much. You get plenty free on level-up, and trolling dungeons for lost, ancient, forbidden holocrons scrolls and spellbooks is very much in flavor for a Sith caster. The way campaigns run, the hundreds of gold is a pittance. It also leans nicely into ritual magic - sit, contemplate for ten minutes + a bit, complete a casting. Really good for Divinations. This is also a selling point on Tome Warlock. Pretty much any school will work (Evocation leans into lightning, Abjuration is universally handy, Divination lets you seize fate, as the Sith should), but Bladesinger has a good case. It gives you a way to be reasonably okay at being in a fight without dipping around for martial proficiency, but is really more "I have a trick to keep me alive in a fight" than "Tenser's Transformation Jr."


But the real key is this: If you can't get Storm Sphere, it's not the right build for you.

[Unoriginal]

Githyanki is a really solid base for going Sith. The fact that the Githzerai are just a wee bit Jedah makes it work on theme. Plus that gives you all the sword proficiencies you need for a Sun Sword or Flametongue, and let go of Pact of the Blade altogether.



If you were going for a Darth Zannah style SS, I'd say GOOlock and Whisper Bard all day long. But she was a bit more of a mind melter.
For Lightning-a-Go-Go, Storm Sorc. has a lot going for it. The option to float with any cast spell has a cool vibe to it, and sorcerer leans well into elemental-focused lists. Draconic has potential as well - makes you tougher, element-theme is strong, with boosting options. Not sure about the wings though.

Coming back to Warlock for a sec, the UA (and soon TCoE) Djinn Genie Warlock brings a bit of thunder, and wind. Having your own personal meditation chamber would up the vibes, though it might be a bit odd that it's also pocket-sized.

If you are eyeing Wizard, don't sweat the costs so much. You get plenty free on level-up, and trolling dungeons for lost, ancient, forbidden holocrons scrolls and spellbooks is very much in flavor for a Sith caster. The way campaigns run, the hundreds of gold is a pittance. It also leans nicely into ritual magic - sit, contemplate for ten minutes + a bit, complete a casting. Really good for Divinations. This is also a selling point on Tome Warlock. Pretty much any school will work (Evocation leans into lightning, Abjuration is universally handy, Divination lets you seize fate, as the Sith should), but Bladesinger has a good case. It gives you a way to be reasonably okay at being in a fight without dipping around for martial proficiency, but is really more "I have a trick to keep me alive in a fight" than "Tenser's Transformation Jr."


But the real key is this: If you can't get Storm Sphere, it's not the right build for you.

How can you get Storm Sphere, and what makes you consider it the key part of a lightning build?

I agree that a Wizard wouldn't be that disadvantaged for needing gold in most campaigns, and that seeking lost knowledge in old tombs is very Sith Sorcerer. But can a Wizard really specialize on lightning and get some specific benefits from doing so?

[zinycor]

How can you get Storm Sphere, and what makes you consider it the key part of a lightning build?

I agree that a Wizard wouldn't be that disadvantaged for needing gold in most campaigns, and that seeking lost knowledge in old tombs is very Sith Sorcerer. But can a Wizard really specialize on lightning and get some specific benefits from doing so?

It depends on how powergamey you feeling. I believe it fits well enough, be an evoker and pick elemental adept as a feat.

Storm sorcerer might be more powerful, but not so much to make a big difference.

[Vogie]

Is there a reliable method that can be used by the player casting witch bolt?

The most reliable method is with a Distant spell metamagic. It's a whole lot easier to keep someone in a 60 ft range than in a 30 ft one.

I've also used the homebrew at my table that upcasting Witch Bolt makes the damage slowly tick down. For example, a 3rd level witch bolt deals 3d12 on the first turn, then 2d12 on the second, 1d12 on the third, fourth, and so on.

[micahaphone]

I'll also point out that Enervate is "Witchbolt, but good". Necrotic damage instead of lightning, but that's still a sith vibe. As is sucking the vitality out of an enemy.

I'd be tempted to take Heighten metamagic or go shadow sorcerer to make sure that at level 7 you can make an Enervate land. Especially with shadow sorc, ask your dm if the doggo can grapple with its attack.



Shadow sorcerer with a few lightning spells and mind control enchantments would be pretty sith, imo. Might want elemental adept, might not.

[DarthOccultarus]

Githyanki is a really solid base for going Sith. The fact that the Githzerai are just a wee bit Jedah makes it work on theme. Plus that gives you all the sword proficiencies you need for a Sun Sword or Flametongue, and let go of Pact of the Blade altogether.



If you were going for a Darth Zannah style SS, I'd say GOOlock and Whisper Bard all day long. But she was a bit more of a mind melter.
For Lightning-a-Go-Go, Storm Sorc. has a lot going for it. The option to float with any cast spell has a cool vibe to it, and sorcerer leans well into elemental-focused lists. Draconic has potential as well - makes you tougher, element-theme is strong, with boosting options. Not sure about the wings though.

Coming back to Warlock for a sec, the UA (and soon TCoE) Djinn Genie Warlock brings a bit of thunder, and wind. Having your own personal meditation chamber would up the vibes, though it might be a bit odd that it's also pocket-sized.

If you are eyeing Wizard, don't sweat the costs so much. You get plenty free on level-up, and trolling dungeons for lost, ancient, forbidden holocrons scrolls and spellbooks is very much in flavor for a Sith caster. The way campaigns run, the hundreds of gold is a pittance. It also leans nicely into ritual magic - sit, contemplate for ten minutes + a bit, complete a casting. Really good for Divinations. This is also a selling point on Tome Warlock. Pretty much any school will work (Evocation leans into lightning, Abjuration is universally handy, Divination lets you seize fate, as the Sith should), but Bladesinger has a good case. It gives you a way to be reasonably okay at being in a fight without dipping around for martial proficiency, but is really more "I have a trick to keep me alive in a fight" than "Tenser's Transformation Jr."


But the real key is this: If you can't get Storm Sphere, it's not the right build for you.

Why is Storm Sphere so big? Is it due to the "Force Storm" flavour

[Joe the Rat]

I Use Darth Bane as my gold standard for Force Lightning. Being able to whip up a field of sound, driving force, and the casual blast of lightning while also throwing out bolts or whatever you feel like doing is a solid approach to mayhem.

[DarthOccultarus]

I Use Darth Bane as my gold standard for Force Lightning. Being able to whip up a field of sound, driving force, and the casual blast of lightning while also throwing out bolts or whatever you feel like doing is a solid approach to mayhem.

How do you do that in DnD exactly?

[sithlordnergal]

Why is Storm Sphere so big? Is it due to the "Force Storm" flavour

Well, because of the Force Storm flavor and the fact that its actually a pretty decent spell. 20ft radius sphere that can deal 2d6 bludgeoning damage, disadvantage on perception checks to hear things, and a 60ft bonus action lightning attack with a range of 60ft that has advantage on anyone within the sphere itself, and it lasts for 1 minute.