Ways to allow monsters to be conjured via planar ally or planar binding?

[redking]

What ways are available to conjure monsters via planar binding or planar ally that are not traditionally available for this purpose? Lets say I wanted to planar bind an Ettin. Some sort of templated Ettin? How would one go about it?

[Venger]

You're asking how to get monsters who are not on the planar binding/planar ally list by using those spells? I am afraid you cannot do this. Unlike the summon monster line, there aren't alternatives designated for planar binding/ally, and in any instance, you can't summon creatures with templates aside from the listed ones (fiendish, celestial, pseudonatural, etc). Did you want an ettin specifically for any particular purpose? Whatever it is you need from it may be replicable through other means.

[NigelWalmsley]

There is no "Planar Binding list". Planar Binding just lets you get Outsiders or Elementals up to a certain HD cap. As far as I can tell, there's nothing prohibiting those from being Half-Fiend Ettins if you can convince your DM that running up the CR/HD ratio even more than Planar Binding already does is a good idea.

[Venger]

Elementals or outsiders are the list. You can't summon stuff with templates specifically because it seldom affects HD and gives you a bunch of free stuff, same as you can't shapeshift into creatures with templates.

[One Step Two]

As long as the type is Outsider or Elemental, HD limitation and that you must know of the creature you're summoning. For Planar Ally, you need to have an alignment component.

So, as long as you stick the Half-Fiend (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/halfFiend.htm) or Half-celestial (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/halfCelestial.htm) template on it, you can indeed have an Ettin, or any eligible monster that has it's type changed to Outsider

Knowing the creature for Planar Binding is tricky, you probably need to make a few Knowledge (the planes) checks, and perhaps a casting of Sending to confer with it before hand. Extraplanar scrying might help too. Once you have the target, prepare your method of summoning and off you go!

Edit:

Elementals or outsiders are the list. You can't summon stuff with templates specifically because it seldom affects HD and gives you a bunch of free stuff, same as you can't shapeshift into creatures with templates.

Planar Ally (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/planarAllyLesser.htm) and Binding (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/planarBindingLesser.htm) don't call out templated creatures at all, unless there was an updated ruling in another book? You might be confusing it with Alter Self stopping you from using a templated creature?

[Quentinas]

With planar ally you can't have a specific elemental or outsider as it being a Deity choice, so depending on the situation the deity (so the DM ) will send you someone who can be useful , with planar binding obviously you say the kind of the creature so maybe you can ask for a templated creature (if you know it obviously)

[NigelWalmsley]

Elementals or outsiders are the list. You can't summon stuff with templates specifically because it seldom affects HD and gives you a bunch of free stuff, same as you can't shapeshift into creatures with templates.

You can't Alter Self into a form with a template because the spell specifically says you can't do that. I certainly agree that allowing people to use Planar Binding to summon up the result of some eight-level exercise in template stacking with Planar Binding is probably imbalanced, but so is casting Planar Binding at all. There's nothing in the spell's text that says anything about not being able to conjure up Half-Fiend Ettins or Half-Elemental Trolls.

[Venger]

You can't Alter Self into a form with a template because the spell specifically says you can't do that. I certainly agree that allowing people to use Planar Binding to summon up the result of some eight-level exercise in template stacking with Planar Binding is probably imbalanced, but so is casting Planar Binding at all. There's nothing in the spell's text that says anything about not being able to conjure up Half-Fiend Ettins or Half-Elemental Trolls.

Great, so throw all the templates that don't affect HD on there. At least now I know why everyone thinks planar ally/binding is good. I always thought they were very weak spells for their level.

[Kayblis]

While the spells don't forbid templates, the creature must exist somewhere to be called. This usually means that, if you can template the creature, you'll only find the most basic way to get the creature to work, as mentioned with the Half-Fiend or Half-Celestial templates which populate the upper and lower planes. Sure, you technically can build a monster sheet with 17 templates that still stays below the HD cap and results in an Outsider, but unless you make the creature yourself(and as such killing the need for the spell in the first place), you probably won't find this mess of a monster anywhere in the multiverse, at least not with the low HD count you need.

That's where DM adjudication comes in, specially with the Divine spells. Sure, you can summon a Half-Fiend Ettin, they exist in the lower planes. You can't summon a Pseudonatural Half-Minotaur Half-Ogre Unseelie Fey Mineral Warrior Half-Fiend Ettin though, because even if it's a technically legal monster if you apply the templates in a specific order, that's such a specific concoction that it probably never existed in the history of the planes. If your DM lets you summon that thing just because it can exist, you probably have bigger issues than a strong summon.

[newguydude1]

"The kind of creature to be bound must be known and stated. If you wish to call a specific individual, you must use that individual’s proper name in casting the spell. "

if your dm rules half fiend ettin is a kind of creature then yeah.
if your dm rules ettin is a kind of creature and a half fiend ettin is not then no.

[unseenmage]

Bind Simulacrums of the creatures you're after. Lower HD, same superpowered tatse.
Do this only if you want the Playground to throw books at you.

EDIT
Oh and for even more books Bind Simulacrums of Simulacrums of the creature you're after.

[Anthrowhale]

There is also the 'Spirit Binding' line of spells which allows access to a few more types (Fey, elemental, incorporeal undead, and some oddballs like astral projectors).

[redking]

Thanks for the replies. So as long as they are elemental or outsiders for some reason, such as a template, 'regular' monsters can be called via planar binding. A half-fiend doppelganger can make a great spy or impostor. Binding a doppelganger might be the only way to obtain its services. Its not like they make themselves known. Any good binds using these 'regular' monsters?

[Zanos]

Great, so throw all the templates that don't affect HD on there. At least now I know why everyone thinks planar ally/binding is good. I always thought they were very weak spells for their level.
I don't see why. Even without templates, at 9th level you can compel an arbitrary number of creatures with 6 BAB and 20+ in their physical ability scores along with damage reduction, spell resistance, or other special abilities to fight for you. If bodyguards or bruisers isn't your goal, there's a huge variety of SLAs available as well as some outsiders with racial casting. At 11 you get access to 12 HD monsters, which is actually higher than you. At 15 it's 18 HD, which is again, higher than you.

[NigelWalmsley]

I assumed that was sarcasm.