Leveling an awakened zombie dragon?

[Delta_tea]

Hi All. So I have a CR5, HD19 zombie purple dragon that was just awakened. So now that it has an int score (again) it can earn experience! It has zero class levels right now.

Does it earn exp like a level 5 or 19 party member? Or does it earn like a cohort? Which won't work because my character is only level 5. Or is there another way to earn I don't know about?

Once it has enough to actually level, what can go up? Class levels seems the easiest to understand. But the bucket of points needed should be greatly smaller (level zero) or is it a 19HD pool size? maybe I can elect to take another Dragon hit die??? But at what point can I age the dragon? I know it normally takes life-times, but there should be some way to advance a catagory.

Also, anyone see a problem with giving it a Vow of Poverty as one of its new feats?

Thanks for the ideas!

[Venger]

Is it a pc or a cohort? Only those accrue xp. An int value does not allow npcs to gain xp. It only grants a formerly mindless creature skills and feats. Urpriest's Monstrous Monster Handbook (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?207928-Urpriest-s-Monstrous-Monster-Handbook) explains how monstrous races do stuff if that is at play here, but I suspect it is not. Basically, a monster with 19HD (plus whatever LA, if applicable) is equal to its HD + its LA. That gives you a value known as its ECL (effective character level.) So if this thing is in a party with level 5 characters, it would basically never earn xp anyway. Class levels are likely your best bet. Check out draconomicon for classes intended for stuff with a lot of dragon hd. Since it is a zombie, it does not have the option to gain more dragon hd, only hd of undead if it wanted to take monster levels. Since it is a zombie, it similarly cannot advance age categories as a dragon. Zombies are Evil, so cannot take exalted feats. Vow of poverty sucks anyway, so you aren't missing much.

[Doctor Despair]

While it cannot advance by age categories, it is eligible to gain the Evolved Undead template any number of times as it ages. Not very PO unless you're the DM making a backstory, however, as normally you'd have to have it at character creation for a normal adventure

[Venger]

The usual dodge to this is jamming it in a fast time plane or demiplane until it has all the powers you want. Since he has a 19hd zombie purple dragon as a lvl 5 character, I don't think po is a concern.

[Delta_tea]

Is it a pc or a cohort? Only those accrue xp. An int value does not allow npcs to gain xp. It only grants a formerly mindless creature skills and feats. Urpriest's Monstrous Monster Handbook (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?207928-Urpriest-s-Monstrous-Monster-Handbook) explains how monstrous races do stuff if that is at play here, but I suspect it is not. Basically, a monster with 19HD (plus whatever LA, if applicable) is equal to its HD + its LA. That gives you a value known as its ECL (effective character level.) So if this thing is in a party with level 5 characters, it would basically never earn xp anyway. Class levels are likely your best bet. Check out draconomicon for classes intended for stuff with a lot of dragon hd. Since it is a zombie, it does not have the option to gain more dragon hd, only hd of undead if it wanted to take monster levels. Since it is a zombie, it similarly cannot advance age categories as a dragon. Zombies are Evil, so cannot take exalted feats. Vow of poverty sucks anyway, so you aren't missing much.

Its an animated undead zombie dragon, so more of cohort maybe? I guess it makes since if it doesn't earn experience. It doesn't have an LA, its literally a 19HD zombie dragon without class levels. Its ECL is 19 if you count the monster hit dices. His creation was:

Dragon, Purple Young Adult (CR7):
https://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/block/Dragon,_Purple_Young_Adult%7Calpha%7CAll%7CDragon

Combined with the Zombie Dragon template:
https://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/zombiedragon.shtml

Ending up with a CR 4.5, 19HD, 19ECL

So it sounds like it can earn class levels but there doesn't seem to be method for it to accrue experience... Sad pandas. Btw Zombie Dragons are Neutral, not Evil (bottom of the template page). VoP doesn't seem to have an alignment requirement. Are you seeing it some where?


While it cannot advance by age categories, it is eligible to gain the Evolved Undead template any number of times as it ages. Not very PO unless you're the DM making a backstory, however, as normally you'd have to have it at character creation for a normal adventure

Maybe I can make the case with the DM at party level 6, the dragon's CR should advance to level 6. Evolved Undead template is a +1 CR and it stacks so things are uniform. It would get silly after those Fast Healing +3 start stacking. Amazing however! It looks like as an 19HD, he'd get full access to all of the Spell-Like Abilities right away. Definitely a plus.


The usual dodge to this is jamming it in a fast time plane or demiplane until it has all the powers you want. Since he has a 19hd zombie purple dragon as a lvl 5 character, I don't think po is a concern.

He's the rock for our team. He's literally a ton of HP and if things get bad, he can fly us away and just nuke from orbit with energy dragon breath. So I'm trying to take care of him and power it up as much as the rules allow when its been awakened.

[Venger]

Its an animated undead zombie dragon, so more of cohort maybe? I guess it makes since if it doesn't earn experience. It doesn't have an LA, its literally a 19HD zombie dragon without class levels. Its ECL is 19 if you count the monster hit dices. His creation was:
Cohort is a discrete rules term with a specific definition. Does your guy have leadership (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#leadership) or an undead cohort, or something similar alongside an abnormally high leadership score? How does he have this dragon? If it's through one of those means and the dragon is awakened through awaken undead (and thus has an intelligence score) then it is entitled to earn xp the same as a normal character of its ECL. Since it's 19+ levels higher than you and will presumably be helping you fight monsters, it's very unlikely it will ever earn any xp for quite some time based on how the formula works. You always count monster HD to determine ECL. Some monsters like dragons which are not playable for PCs will have a note under their LA that says +such and such (cohort). Purple dragon does not have any such entry, and is not listed as an option under dragon cohort.

I'm familiar with the zombie dragon template. I didn't know you were using it. I thought it was just a dragon with the zombie template.



So it sounds like it can earn class levels but there doesn't seem to be method for it to accrue experience... Sad pandas. Btw Zombie Dragons are Neutral, not Evil (bottom of the template page). VoP doesn't seem to have an alignment requirement. Are you seeing it some where?

Only PCs and cohorts can gain xp. Levels can only be accrued by gaining xp. A character who is neither a pc nor a cohort cannot gain xp.

I thought you were applying the zombie template, which arbitrarily imposes an NE alignment.

VoP is an Exalted feat, and like all exalted feats, requires a Good alignment (and an int of 3 or more, for that matter)



Maybe I can make the case with the DM at party level 6, the dragon's CR should advance to level 6. Evolved Undead template is a +1 CR and it stacks so things are uniform. It would get silly after those Fast Healing +3 start stacking. Amazing however! It looks like as an 19HD, he'd get full access to all of the Spell-Like Abilities right away. Definitely a plus.

He's the rock for our team. He's literally a ton of HP and if things get bad, he can fly us away and just nuke from orbit with energy dragon breath. So I'm trying to take care of him and power it up as much as the rules allow when its been awakened.
CR is not relevant. CR just determines encounter level for monsters. Did you have time to look at urpriest's handbook? It explains all this very well.

[Zombimode]

Dragon, Purple Young Adult (CR7):
https://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/block/Dragon,_Purple_Young_Adult%7Calpha%7CAll%7CDragon

Whatever this abomination is supposed to be, it is NOT CR7. This thing looks straight out of the Immortals Handbook.

[Venger]

It's from dragon compendium (read: reprinted from a random edition of dragon magazine) so pretty much on par with the immortals handbook in terms of quality and game balance. I know shivering touch exists, but I wouldn't want to see the lvl 7 party who can kill this thing 50% of the time.

[Zarvistic]

The dragon is CR 13, it's in the errata.

[Zombimode]

More reasonable, but I would actually rather give this creature a makeover then trying to find a more fitting CR.
Fortitude +43 is just a stupid number.