Piggy Knowles
2020-09-10, 04:16 PM
INTRODUCTION
With more than a decade and a half of toying around with 3.5, I’ve accumulated a lot of spare builds and ideas. While I don’t have an active game going right now, I still like to pop open my builds folder and try to refine things. Recently I decided to make a dedicated effort to flesh out some of these builds into full write-ups, and reached out to some friends in the CO community who might be interested in doing the same. In the spirit of Tempest Stormwind’s Weekly Optimization Showcase (imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, right?), I thought I’d showcase the end results here.
The goal is (usually) not to show off any fancy new TO trick, but to showcase effective, playable builds and spur discussion. While each of us has a different build philosophy, in general the intent is to create something that can be played in most groups from level 1 to level 20. Again, the goal is discussion, so feel free to discuss the build, talk about other options, make suggestions or tear it all to shreds. Also, feel free to use anything showcased here in any of your campaigns—and let us know how they work out if you do!
Right now the group consists of myself, the Viscount, Akal Saris, Venger, WhamBamSam, Darrin and daremetoidareyou. Typically one of us writes up the build concept and possibly a stub, the others share feedback on Discord, and together we refine things until we’re happy with the final product.
For this showcase, we’re doing something a little bit different and showcasing four builds that didn’t quite make the cut: welcome to the Cutting Room Floor!
Special Edition: The Cutting Room Floor
BACKGROUND
You may not believe it based on how infrequently we post these optimization showcases, but our little group stays very active. While not everything we talk about is specifically focused on the optimization showcases, we’re pretty much always tinkering, tossing builds back and forth and coming up with ideas.
Unfortunately, I’ve noticed a bit of a problem. We’ve got at least a half-dozen builds completed and partially written up… but before they get finalized, we get another idea and go off chasing that one! Sometimes this is good - some of my favorite builds are concepts we started, wrote up, got distracted from, and then eventually returned to with some fresh new ideas. But in practice, we’ve got tons of cluttered Google docs full of everything from build stubs to mostly completed write-ups that may never see the light of day.
So, we decided to do a lightning round of showcases called the Cutting Room Floor. This will feature not one but four builds that we put together. These don’t represent everything we’ve been working on in the past few months, but they’re all builds that we thought felt interesting and worth exploring further, even if we didn’t quite develop them as far as some of the previous showcases.
Because we’re doing so many at once, I’ll probably be a bit lighter on the flavor side of the write-ups here, and I’m going to be selfish and not include sources. Please feel free to ask if you want us to source anything, though! As always we’ve basically stuck to Iron Chef rules just to have a general baseline: official sources only, no DragMag unless it was reprinted in Dragon Compendium, no assumed flaws/traits, attempted minimal reliance on items. I hope you enjoy and comment on what we’ve got. I think there’s a lot of fun stuff here.
List of builds this showcase:
Cutting Room Floor: The Happiest SADiest (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?618674-Optimization-Showcase-in-the-Playground-Cutting-Room-Floor-The-Happiest-SADist) (Cha-SAD gish)
Cutting Room Floor: Burn, Baby, Burn (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?618675-Optimization-Showcase-in-the-Playground-Cutting-Room-Floor-Burn-Baby-Burn) (Warmage optimization)
Cutting Room Floor: Bad Touch (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?618676-Optimization-Showcase-in-the-Playground-Cutting-Room-Floor-Bad-Touch) (Dread necromancer gish/debuffer)
Cutting Room Floor: Stomp the Yard (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?618679-Optimization-Showcase-in-the-Playground-Cutting-Room-Floor-Stomp-the-Yard) (Trample optimization)
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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/431937476010180610/753721911988715681/happiest_sadist.jpg
The Happiest SADist
Won’t you dance with me?
OVERVIEW
I love bards, and I love Tome of Battle, and I’m pretty fond of gishes, too. So what happens when we smoosh them all together? Well, we end up with the Happiest SADist, an exercise in making an effective Cha-SAD (single-ability dependent, for those who don’t follow the lingo) gish.
This build came primarily out of tinkering with the Ascetic Mage feat. The feat is intended for sorcerer/monk multiclass builds, but oddly enough, it requires neither sorcerer nor monk levels. As written, it can just as easily work for, say, a swordsage. And if we’re going with a hefty Charisma focus to make the most out of Ascetic Mage, why not start off with bard for Snowflake Wardance fun?
This build isn’t the most original we’ve ever done, but it’s very clean in a way that we all found quite satisfying. The final outcome is a build with +16 BAB, 9th-level spells and 8th-level maneuvers that ends up with Charisma to attack, damage and AC in addition to spellcasting. Best of all, unlike many gishes, it avoids the early awkward levels that often plague such characters, making it one of the few gishes I’d happily play from level 1 to level 20. Hope you enjoy.
THE BASICS
Race: Human. You’ll need the feat, and human lets you just barely hit all your skill requirements without needing to pump your Intelligence.
Build Stub: Unarmed Swordsage 2/Bard 4/Jade Phoenix Mage 10/Sublime Chord 2/Sacred Exorcist 2. (Not in that order, of course.)
Alternate Class Features: Unarmed swordsage, fey bard
Alignment: Any good and non-lawful.
The Happiest SADist
Level
Class
Feats
Class Features
Spells/Maneuvers
Notes (Click to Expand)
1st
Unarmed Swordsage 1
Improved Unarmed StrikeB, Two-Weapon Fighting, Lion Tribe Warrior
Unarmed strike, quick to act +1, discipline focus (weapon focus)
Wolf fang strike, sudden leap, moment of perfect mind, burning blade, distracting ember, stone bones, child of shadowstance
As a swordsage you’ll primarily focus on tiger claw and desert wind, though you have a smattering of other maneuvers as well. Tiger claw is a natural fit for your fighting style, so that should be no surprise. Desert wind mostly gets a bad rap, but it actually does alright for itself in moderation, and it’ll help you qualify for some of its better options when you become a JPM. Dual wield and pick up some bonus damage via burning blade when necessary, pounce with Lion Tribe Warrior, and stay mobile to properly take advantage of child of shadow’s miss chance.
As for unarmed swordsage versus the standard variety, going unarmed is basically something for nothing, since you’ll pick up armor proficiencies by multiclassing regardless. It will also help you hit the pre-req for Ascetic Mage down the road.
2nd
Fey Bard 1
Animal companion, bardic music, nature sense, wild empathy
Detect magic, prestidigitation, message, daze
The fey bard from Unearthed Arcana doesn’t really see a ton of play, as it gives away almost all of the bard’s songs, including the iconic inspire courage. However, it does NOT trade away the bardic music ability itself, even if it loses any songs to spend it on. Since you’ll be reserving your bardic music uses for Snowflake Wardance anyhow, this is actually an easy trade for you. In return you get a few druidic abilities. Wild empathy is actually quite a bit better for you than the typical druid thanks to your excellent Charisma, but the real draw is the animal companion. A flanking partner/meatshield is going to be far more useful in these early levels than anything your bardic music would give you. Hard to go wrong with a riding dog as your companion of choice, but if you prefer the far more badass (but strictly inferior) wolf instead, I promise not to hold it against you.
3rd
Fey Bard 2
Snowflake Wardance
Mage hand, sleep, grease
And here’s why you don’t want to bother with inspire courage or inspire awe. With Snowflake Wardance you start down the path of getting Charisma to, um, everything, trading your useless bardic music uses for a very nice bonus to your attack rolls. This will more than make up for the penalty you take from TWFing or the fact that you needed to start with a lower than usual strength to accommodate all your other stat requirements. Meanwhile, sleep and grease give you some powerful ways to take out foes at this level, especially considering your high Charisma.
4th
Fey Bard 3
Dancing lights, swift invisibility
Swift invisibility is a fun little way to move around unseen. I find it’s best to use it defensively, picking up total concealment for a round to quickly sneak out of harm’s way or get past the front-lines in a big battle to attack more vulnerable targets.
5th
Fey Bard 4
Resist nature’s lure
Alter self, glitterdust, sleep -> improvisation
With 2nd-level spells online, go ahead and get the gold standard of alter self and glitterdust. These two spells end up on pretty much every bard I make, and a good number of my sorcerers, too - they’re that good. Sleep can be swapped out now that you should mostly be facing foes above its HD limit. Improvisation is a perfect replacement. I don’t like taking it at early levels, because it requires a decent CL to get the most out of it, but a pool of floating luck bonuses can be more than a little useful.
And don’t forget that your animal companion improves here as well. It’s almost always worth it to swap up whenever you get the chance. If you want to get yourself a dinosaur buddy then the fleshraker is of course a phenomenal pick, but I’m personally fond of the dire bat.
6th
Unarmed Swordsage 2
Ascetic Mage
AC bonus
Flashing sun, hunter’s sensestance
Go ahead and jump back into swordsage here, just in time to pick up Ascetic Mage. While it’s intended to work with monks, it will absolutely work with swordsage as well, allowing you to get your Charisma to AC while in light armor. That’s a major defensive boost, and between your Cha focus and the fact that unlike the monk, you aren’t restricted to running around in your knickers and can actually wear some armor, you’ll likely end up with one of the highest ACs in the party.
As for your maneuver and stance, flashing sun effectively gives you flurry of blows, and while it may not be as good overall as dancing mongoose, the fact that it’s two levels lower and doesn’t eat your swift action definitely has its advantages. Meanwhile hunter’s sense helps you fulfill tiger claw pre-reqs and gives you a ton of utility. It also has some really nice synergy with glitterdust, allowing you to sniff out the general location of hidden foes to target with glitter bombs for easy identification.
7th
Jade Phoenix Mage 1
Arcane wrath, rite of waking
Foehammer
With 2nd-level spells and all your maneuver and skill requirements hit, into jade phoenix mage you go. While you could qualify for a 3rd-level desert wind maneuver here, you’ll benefit more from picking up something out of devoted spirit to help cover pre-reqs later. Shield block doesn’t work with Snowflake Wardance, so that means crusader’s strike or foehammer. I prefer foehammer for its ability to punch through DR when needed, though again it’s mostly just here to fill pre-reqs. You also get a pseudo-Arcane Strike here. It’s not anywhere as good as actual Arcane Strike, but since you won’t qualify for that for quite some time, it’s certainly not going to hurt to have.
8th
Jade Phoenix Mage 2
Mystic phoenix stance
Charm person, whirling blade
Mystic phoenix stance isn’t a bad little stance. The CL boost is great for when you’re buffing up in the morning, and a dodge bonus to AC can be more useful than the miss chance from child of shadow in some circumstances. As for your spells, charm person doesn’t necessarily synergize with being a gish but works well with your high Charisma and is an all around useful bit of utility. Whirling blade gives you a quick and dirty ranged option when necessary, and should still benefit from all your melee attack boosts… including Snowflake Wardance, meaning it can give you double your Charisma to attack. Hey, I’ll take it!
9th
Jade Phoenix Mage 3
Stone Power
Divine surge
While you’re mostly going to want to full attack, there are times when a standard action strike is just right, and for its level it is hard to find one with better damage returns than divine surge. As for your feat, you’ll need Power Attack for a pre-req, but Power Attack really doesn’t play nicely with your fighting style. Luckily Stone Power can come in here instead, giving you some temporary HP when needed without much caring how you wield your weapon.
10th
Jade Phoenix Mage 4
Empower strike
Bladeweave, haste, scrying
3rd-level spells are quite nice for the bard. Mostly you’ll want haste, which is the ultimate party-friendly buff spell, but picking up scrying as a 3rd is never a bad option either. You also get another 2nd-level spell, and bladeweave is nice as a way to add some swift action stunning on top of your attack routine. Empower strike doesn’t do much for you now, but you’ll get some spells that can fully take advantage of it shortly.
11th
Sublime Chord 1
Bardic lore, bardic music
Enervation, ruin delver’s fortune, greater mirror image, dismissal
The timing is more or less perfect: with hitting 3rds last level, you manage to qualify for sublime chord right on time. This class needs no introduction: basically any non-divine bard should at least consider it. Immediately your spellcasting will jump up by two spell levels, giving you three 4ths and a 5th. Your 5th will need to go to dismissal in order to qualify for sacred exorcist. As for your 4ths, enervation is a great debuff and takes full advantage of your JPM empower strike ability. Ruin delver’s fortune is literally a lifesaver, especially with your supercharged Charisma. And greater mirror image is one of the absolute best defensive buffs for its level, with the quick casting time making it particularly useful.
12th
Sacred Exorcist 1
Divine Might
Exorcism, turn undead
Dimension door, overland flight
Let’s keep expanding how you can take advantage of that high Charisma. You already have Snowflake Wardance for attack rolls, so now let’s add on Divine Might for damage. That requires a quick dip into sacred exorcist for turning, but is more than worth the investment. Now you’re getting Charisma to attack, damage and AC in addition to using it for spellcasting. As for spells, dimension door is still probably my favorite tactical teleportation spell - it’s a classic for a reason, boasting long range, verbal components only and the ability to take along multiple allies. There are few better ways to get out of trouble in a pinch. Meanwhile overland flight is just a fantastic set it and forget it buff, giving you decent flight all day long without having to waste any actions in combat.
13th
Jade Phoenix Mage 5
Radiant charge, thicket of bladesstance, superior resistance
Back into JPM. You get a stance here, and unfortunately the timing is a bit awkward - you only have access to 5th-level maneuvers at this point, and both desert wind and devoted spirit have their stances at 6th. Go ahead and take thicket of blades as a consolation prize. On the other hand you do get an excellent charging maneuver in radiant charge, which combines with Lion Tribe Warrior to add on some very nice bonus damage to every single attack and buff you while you’re at it. And with superior resistance you also add on a huge bonus to all your saves, one that lasts all day long.
14th
Jade Phoenix Mage 6
Firebird stance, jade phoenix master
While mystic fire stance can actually be pretty handy, I’m not a huge fan of firebird stance. Still, it can come in handy if you’re up against a fire-heavy foe.
15th
Jade Phoenix Mage 7
Arcane Strike
Desert tempest, greater dispel magic, irresistible dance
Ah, after seven levels of the inferior arcane wrath, you pick up the real deal: Arcane Strike. Most of your spells have been focusing heavily on either utility or long duration buffs that you can cast early and then ignore. This allows you to feed any leftover spell slots into some very significant bonus damage. Unlike arcane wrath, which restricts you to a single attack, this bonus damage lasts all round and can really add up fast. And speaking of spells, you have the ability to pick up greater dispel as a 5th, so by all means do so. While you have a lot of competition for good 5ths, it’s a must have spell and a good contender for the best debuff in 3.5, and you’ll soon be able to quicken it for free. You also get irresistible dance two spell levels early, and since you don’t mind being in melee range, the fact that it’s a touch spell shouldn’t slow you down in the least. As for your maneuver, desert tempest is a strike that allows you to move and attack multiple foes, essentially duplicating the dervish’s signature ability in a single maneuver. Being a strike, it also allows you to trigger the JPM abilities, making it doubly good.
16th
Jade Phoenix Mage 8
Quickening strike
Energy absorption
I mentioned there were advantages to taking GDM as a 5th, right? Here is why it’s important: with quickening strike, you now get a free quicken for any 5th-level or lower spell once an encounter after using a strike. There are very few ways for a spontaneous caster to quicken spells, making this even more handy. As for your spell, go ahead and take another key defensive spell: energy absorption. This is another spell that lasts all day, provides resistance to every single energy type and lets you completely ignore one strong energy attack and even convert it into healing. It’s a great “nope!” option and well worth adding to your daily buffstack.
17th
Jade Phoenix Mage 9
Salamander charge, dragonsight, disintegrate, greater teleport
Salamander charge doesn’t have the damage bonus of radiant charge, but it allows you to bypass most of the charging restrictions while also setting up a wall of fire behind you. That’s worth it in cool points alone, even if it’s a bit weak for the level. Don’t worry, your spells will more than make up for it: dragonsight gives you multiple new methods of vision, including blindsense, all day long, greater teleport is one of the most essential and gamechanging spells around and disintegrate combines nicely with empowering strike and can be a powerful blast spell or excellent utility as needed.
18th
Jade Phoenix Mage 10
Martial Study (raging mongoose)
Emerald immolation
Mind blank
It might not come into play very frequently, but emerald immolation is probably the downright coolest capstone around (perhaps only challenged by the truenamer’s capstone). And when it does come into play, it can be absolutely gamechanging, so yeah, own your status as a legendary phoenix and rise from the ashes. But realistically you don’t really want to die at all, so you should pick up the granddaddy of all defensive spells: mind blank. This completely shuts down an entire school of magic and a whole host of other effects and lasts all day long. It’s absolutely essential at this level.
Oh, and while you don’t get a maneuver at this level, you do hit IL 15 here, so you can spend your feat on Martial Study to nab an 8th-level maneuver. There is little better than raging mongoose for you, which gives you a whopping four extra attacks as a swift action.
19th
Sublime Chord 2
Song of arcane power
Greater anticipate teleportation, glass strike, greater shadow evocation
With JPM finished you can go ahead and take another level in sublime chord, which progresses your casting and gives you song of arcane power. I shouldn’t have to explain why getting a +4 CL to a spell before casting is great, especially while setting up your daily buffs. And as for spells, greater anticipate teleportation is another must-have spell at high levels to avoid teleportation ambushes, giving you ample time to set up your defenses. Glass strike is a save-or-die, which you really haven’t messed around with yet; while mostly you’re not that interested in them, it’s nice to have in your toolkit and it’s a rare Fort-based save-or-die that will work on the undead. And finally, as a spontaneous caster you just can’t beat the raw flexibility of greater shadow evocation (made even better if you can use it to duplicate spells like contingency).
20th
Sacred Exorcist 2
Detect evil, resist possession
Time stop
One last level. This can be anything that gives you +1 BAB and progresses casting; for simplicity’s sake I went with another level of sacred exorcist, but you can play around a bit. This will put you just high enough to nab a 9th-level spell. It’s really hard to go wrong here, and I often default to shapechange for the incredible flexibility it provides (and the ability to gently break the game when I need to pull out the big guns), but here I decided to take a different tack and use time stop. It’s an absolutely iconic spell, and a great way to set up necessary buffs if you’re ever caught unawares. It can even be empowered with your JPM’s empowering strike. You’ll more or less never regret having this one, so enjoy.
Spells
0- Detect magic, prestidigitation, message, daze, mage hand, dancing lights
1- Sleep, swift invisibility, grease, improvisation, charm person
2- Alter self, glitterdust, whirling blade, bladeweave
3- Haste, scrying
4- Enervation, ruin delver’s fortune, greater mirror image, dimension door
5- Dismissal, overland flight, greater dispel magic, dragonsight
6- Superior resistance, irresistible dance, disintegrate, greater anticipate teleportation
7- Energy absorption, greater teleport, glass strike
8- Mind blank, greater shadow evocation
9- Time stop
Maneuvers/Stances
1- Wolf fang strike, sudden leap, moment of perfect mind, burning blade, distracting ember, counter charge, child of shadowstance, hunter’s sensestance
2- Flashing sun, foehammer
3- Thicket of bladesstance
4- Divine surge
5- Radiant charge
6- Desert tempest
7- Salamander charge
8- Raging mongoose
Stats are a little bit awkward to start off with, but once you hit the necessary pre-reqs for everything, you’ll quickly become something very close to Cha-SAD. You need a Dex of 15 for TWF, while Strength is still necessary for attack and damage. I recommend starting off with a Charisma of 16 and splitting your remaining point buy between Strength and Dex. Once you hit that 15 minimum (or 16 for the quick AC boost if you are using a high enough point buy), you can pretty much ignore Dexterity entirely, and mostly focus on boosting Charisma and Strength via items.
Note that if you’re starting at a higher level and can afford (and find) feycraft weapons, you can conceivably drop Strength down to an 11 or 12 and instead focus heavily on Dexterity. You’ll need to bump your Strength to 13 by ECL 9 to qualify for Stone Power, but gloves of ogre strength will be relatively cheap by that level.
Beyond that, though… Charisma, Charisma, Charisma. Not only does it drive your spellcasting, but it will also get added to your attack, damage and AC. Wisdom is your dump stat, and while you probably don’t want an Int penalty due to the many skill requirements of sublime chord, you won’t need higher than a 10.
SAMPLE STAT ARRAYS:
28-Point Buy: Str 14/Dex 15/Con 10/Int 10/Wis 8/Cha 16
32-Point Buy: Str 14/Dex 16/Con 12/Int 10/Wis 8/Cha 16
Your skills are mostly pretty locked in thanks to the hefty requirements from things like sublime chord. Feel free to dump any leftovers into the Cha-based skill of your choice.
Your typical gish accoutrements, plus slippers of battledancing to get even more mileage out of your Charisma focus. Get some nice TWF boosters as well, like gloves of the balanced hand.
BUILD SUMMARY
You hit the basic gish benchmark of 9th-level spells and +16 BAB, and have 8th-level maneuvers to boot. Charisma drives your spellcasting, attack rolls, damage rolls and AC. You’ve got tons of good defensive options, and offensively you’re no slouch: TWF, pounce, Charisma to attack and damage, Arcane Strike, raging mongoose… you basically have it all.
At low levels you’ll play almost like a ranger, pouncing with two weapons and sending your riding dog or wolf out to fight alongside you, with some spells and maneuvers to augment your prowess. You’re not too bad defensively even at the very beginning, thanks to a passable Dex, the ability to wear armor and the 20% miss chance from child of shadow stance. As the mid-levels progress you begin shifting more and more of your focus to spellcasting, working mostly with long duration defensive buffs and utility and relying on things like Arcane Strike and pounce to drive much of your damage.
VARIANTS
There’s certainly room to play with maneuver and spell selection, and you have at least one free level that can easily be swapped. That said, there isn’t much reason to deviate too far from the main build stub.
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And there you have it! Feel free to comment, discuss or check out one of the others!
With more than a decade and a half of toying around with 3.5, I’ve accumulated a lot of spare builds and ideas. While I don’t have an active game going right now, I still like to pop open my builds folder and try to refine things. Recently I decided to make a dedicated effort to flesh out some of these builds into full write-ups, and reached out to some friends in the CO community who might be interested in doing the same. In the spirit of Tempest Stormwind’s Weekly Optimization Showcase (imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, right?), I thought I’d showcase the end results here.
The goal is (usually) not to show off any fancy new TO trick, but to showcase effective, playable builds and spur discussion. While each of us has a different build philosophy, in general the intent is to create something that can be played in most groups from level 1 to level 20. Again, the goal is discussion, so feel free to discuss the build, talk about other options, make suggestions or tear it all to shreds. Also, feel free to use anything showcased here in any of your campaigns—and let us know how they work out if you do!
Right now the group consists of myself, the Viscount, Akal Saris, Venger, WhamBamSam, Darrin and daremetoidareyou. Typically one of us writes up the build concept and possibly a stub, the others share feedback on Discord, and together we refine things until we’re happy with the final product.
For this showcase, we’re doing something a little bit different and showcasing four builds that didn’t quite make the cut: welcome to the Cutting Room Floor!
Special Edition: The Cutting Room Floor
BACKGROUND
You may not believe it based on how infrequently we post these optimization showcases, but our little group stays very active. While not everything we talk about is specifically focused on the optimization showcases, we’re pretty much always tinkering, tossing builds back and forth and coming up with ideas.
Unfortunately, I’ve noticed a bit of a problem. We’ve got at least a half-dozen builds completed and partially written up… but before they get finalized, we get another idea and go off chasing that one! Sometimes this is good - some of my favorite builds are concepts we started, wrote up, got distracted from, and then eventually returned to with some fresh new ideas. But in practice, we’ve got tons of cluttered Google docs full of everything from build stubs to mostly completed write-ups that may never see the light of day.
So, we decided to do a lightning round of showcases called the Cutting Room Floor. This will feature not one but four builds that we put together. These don’t represent everything we’ve been working on in the past few months, but they’re all builds that we thought felt interesting and worth exploring further, even if we didn’t quite develop them as far as some of the previous showcases.
Because we’re doing so many at once, I’ll probably be a bit lighter on the flavor side of the write-ups here, and I’m going to be selfish and not include sources. Please feel free to ask if you want us to source anything, though! As always we’ve basically stuck to Iron Chef rules just to have a general baseline: official sources only, no DragMag unless it was reprinted in Dragon Compendium, no assumed flaws/traits, attempted minimal reliance on items. I hope you enjoy and comment on what we’ve got. I think there’s a lot of fun stuff here.
List of builds this showcase:
Cutting Room Floor: The Happiest SADiest (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?618674-Optimization-Showcase-in-the-Playground-Cutting-Room-Floor-The-Happiest-SADist) (Cha-SAD gish)
Cutting Room Floor: Burn, Baby, Burn (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?618675-Optimization-Showcase-in-the-Playground-Cutting-Room-Floor-Burn-Baby-Burn) (Warmage optimization)
Cutting Room Floor: Bad Touch (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?618676-Optimization-Showcase-in-the-Playground-Cutting-Room-Floor-Bad-Touch) (Dread necromancer gish/debuffer)
Cutting Room Floor: Stomp the Yard (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?618679-Optimization-Showcase-in-the-Playground-Cutting-Room-Floor-Stomp-the-Yard) (Trample optimization)
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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/431937476010180610/753721911988715681/happiest_sadist.jpg
The Happiest SADist
Won’t you dance with me?
OVERVIEW
I love bards, and I love Tome of Battle, and I’m pretty fond of gishes, too. So what happens when we smoosh them all together? Well, we end up with the Happiest SADist, an exercise in making an effective Cha-SAD (single-ability dependent, for those who don’t follow the lingo) gish.
This build came primarily out of tinkering with the Ascetic Mage feat. The feat is intended for sorcerer/monk multiclass builds, but oddly enough, it requires neither sorcerer nor monk levels. As written, it can just as easily work for, say, a swordsage. And if we’re going with a hefty Charisma focus to make the most out of Ascetic Mage, why not start off with bard for Snowflake Wardance fun?
This build isn’t the most original we’ve ever done, but it’s very clean in a way that we all found quite satisfying. The final outcome is a build with +16 BAB, 9th-level spells and 8th-level maneuvers that ends up with Charisma to attack, damage and AC in addition to spellcasting. Best of all, unlike many gishes, it avoids the early awkward levels that often plague such characters, making it one of the few gishes I’d happily play from level 1 to level 20. Hope you enjoy.
THE BASICS
Race: Human. You’ll need the feat, and human lets you just barely hit all your skill requirements without needing to pump your Intelligence.
Build Stub: Unarmed Swordsage 2/Bard 4/Jade Phoenix Mage 10/Sublime Chord 2/Sacred Exorcist 2. (Not in that order, of course.)
Alternate Class Features: Unarmed swordsage, fey bard
Alignment: Any good and non-lawful.
The Happiest SADist
Level
Class
Feats
Class Features
Spells/Maneuvers
Notes (Click to Expand)
1st
Unarmed Swordsage 1
Improved Unarmed StrikeB, Two-Weapon Fighting, Lion Tribe Warrior
Unarmed strike, quick to act +1, discipline focus (weapon focus)
Wolf fang strike, sudden leap, moment of perfect mind, burning blade, distracting ember, stone bones, child of shadowstance
As a swordsage you’ll primarily focus on tiger claw and desert wind, though you have a smattering of other maneuvers as well. Tiger claw is a natural fit for your fighting style, so that should be no surprise. Desert wind mostly gets a bad rap, but it actually does alright for itself in moderation, and it’ll help you qualify for some of its better options when you become a JPM. Dual wield and pick up some bonus damage via burning blade when necessary, pounce with Lion Tribe Warrior, and stay mobile to properly take advantage of child of shadow’s miss chance.
As for unarmed swordsage versus the standard variety, going unarmed is basically something for nothing, since you’ll pick up armor proficiencies by multiclassing regardless. It will also help you hit the pre-req for Ascetic Mage down the road.
2nd
Fey Bard 1
Animal companion, bardic music, nature sense, wild empathy
Detect magic, prestidigitation, message, daze
The fey bard from Unearthed Arcana doesn’t really see a ton of play, as it gives away almost all of the bard’s songs, including the iconic inspire courage. However, it does NOT trade away the bardic music ability itself, even if it loses any songs to spend it on. Since you’ll be reserving your bardic music uses for Snowflake Wardance anyhow, this is actually an easy trade for you. In return you get a few druidic abilities. Wild empathy is actually quite a bit better for you than the typical druid thanks to your excellent Charisma, but the real draw is the animal companion. A flanking partner/meatshield is going to be far more useful in these early levels than anything your bardic music would give you. Hard to go wrong with a riding dog as your companion of choice, but if you prefer the far more badass (but strictly inferior) wolf instead, I promise not to hold it against you.
3rd
Fey Bard 2
Snowflake Wardance
Mage hand, sleep, grease
And here’s why you don’t want to bother with inspire courage or inspire awe. With Snowflake Wardance you start down the path of getting Charisma to, um, everything, trading your useless bardic music uses for a very nice bonus to your attack rolls. This will more than make up for the penalty you take from TWFing or the fact that you needed to start with a lower than usual strength to accommodate all your other stat requirements. Meanwhile, sleep and grease give you some powerful ways to take out foes at this level, especially considering your high Charisma.
4th
Fey Bard 3
Dancing lights, swift invisibility
Swift invisibility is a fun little way to move around unseen. I find it’s best to use it defensively, picking up total concealment for a round to quickly sneak out of harm’s way or get past the front-lines in a big battle to attack more vulnerable targets.
5th
Fey Bard 4
Resist nature’s lure
Alter self, glitterdust, sleep -> improvisation
With 2nd-level spells online, go ahead and get the gold standard of alter self and glitterdust. These two spells end up on pretty much every bard I make, and a good number of my sorcerers, too - they’re that good. Sleep can be swapped out now that you should mostly be facing foes above its HD limit. Improvisation is a perfect replacement. I don’t like taking it at early levels, because it requires a decent CL to get the most out of it, but a pool of floating luck bonuses can be more than a little useful.
And don’t forget that your animal companion improves here as well. It’s almost always worth it to swap up whenever you get the chance. If you want to get yourself a dinosaur buddy then the fleshraker is of course a phenomenal pick, but I’m personally fond of the dire bat.
6th
Unarmed Swordsage 2
Ascetic Mage
AC bonus
Flashing sun, hunter’s sensestance
Go ahead and jump back into swordsage here, just in time to pick up Ascetic Mage. While it’s intended to work with monks, it will absolutely work with swordsage as well, allowing you to get your Charisma to AC while in light armor. That’s a major defensive boost, and between your Cha focus and the fact that unlike the monk, you aren’t restricted to running around in your knickers and can actually wear some armor, you’ll likely end up with one of the highest ACs in the party.
As for your maneuver and stance, flashing sun effectively gives you flurry of blows, and while it may not be as good overall as dancing mongoose, the fact that it’s two levels lower and doesn’t eat your swift action definitely has its advantages. Meanwhile hunter’s sense helps you fulfill tiger claw pre-reqs and gives you a ton of utility. It also has some really nice synergy with glitterdust, allowing you to sniff out the general location of hidden foes to target with glitter bombs for easy identification.
7th
Jade Phoenix Mage 1
Arcane wrath, rite of waking
Foehammer
With 2nd-level spells and all your maneuver and skill requirements hit, into jade phoenix mage you go. While you could qualify for a 3rd-level desert wind maneuver here, you’ll benefit more from picking up something out of devoted spirit to help cover pre-reqs later. Shield block doesn’t work with Snowflake Wardance, so that means crusader’s strike or foehammer. I prefer foehammer for its ability to punch through DR when needed, though again it’s mostly just here to fill pre-reqs. You also get a pseudo-Arcane Strike here. It’s not anywhere as good as actual Arcane Strike, but since you won’t qualify for that for quite some time, it’s certainly not going to hurt to have.
8th
Jade Phoenix Mage 2
Mystic phoenix stance
Charm person, whirling blade
Mystic phoenix stance isn’t a bad little stance. The CL boost is great for when you’re buffing up in the morning, and a dodge bonus to AC can be more useful than the miss chance from child of shadow in some circumstances. As for your spells, charm person doesn’t necessarily synergize with being a gish but works well with your high Charisma and is an all around useful bit of utility. Whirling blade gives you a quick and dirty ranged option when necessary, and should still benefit from all your melee attack boosts… including Snowflake Wardance, meaning it can give you double your Charisma to attack. Hey, I’ll take it!
9th
Jade Phoenix Mage 3
Stone Power
Divine surge
While you’re mostly going to want to full attack, there are times when a standard action strike is just right, and for its level it is hard to find one with better damage returns than divine surge. As for your feat, you’ll need Power Attack for a pre-req, but Power Attack really doesn’t play nicely with your fighting style. Luckily Stone Power can come in here instead, giving you some temporary HP when needed without much caring how you wield your weapon.
10th
Jade Phoenix Mage 4
Empower strike
Bladeweave, haste, scrying
3rd-level spells are quite nice for the bard. Mostly you’ll want haste, which is the ultimate party-friendly buff spell, but picking up scrying as a 3rd is never a bad option either. You also get another 2nd-level spell, and bladeweave is nice as a way to add some swift action stunning on top of your attack routine. Empower strike doesn’t do much for you now, but you’ll get some spells that can fully take advantage of it shortly.
11th
Sublime Chord 1
Bardic lore, bardic music
Enervation, ruin delver’s fortune, greater mirror image, dismissal
The timing is more or less perfect: with hitting 3rds last level, you manage to qualify for sublime chord right on time. This class needs no introduction: basically any non-divine bard should at least consider it. Immediately your spellcasting will jump up by two spell levels, giving you three 4ths and a 5th. Your 5th will need to go to dismissal in order to qualify for sacred exorcist. As for your 4ths, enervation is a great debuff and takes full advantage of your JPM empower strike ability. Ruin delver’s fortune is literally a lifesaver, especially with your supercharged Charisma. And greater mirror image is one of the absolute best defensive buffs for its level, with the quick casting time making it particularly useful.
12th
Sacred Exorcist 1
Divine Might
Exorcism, turn undead
Dimension door, overland flight
Let’s keep expanding how you can take advantage of that high Charisma. You already have Snowflake Wardance for attack rolls, so now let’s add on Divine Might for damage. That requires a quick dip into sacred exorcist for turning, but is more than worth the investment. Now you’re getting Charisma to attack, damage and AC in addition to using it for spellcasting. As for spells, dimension door is still probably my favorite tactical teleportation spell - it’s a classic for a reason, boasting long range, verbal components only and the ability to take along multiple allies. There are few better ways to get out of trouble in a pinch. Meanwhile overland flight is just a fantastic set it and forget it buff, giving you decent flight all day long without having to waste any actions in combat.
13th
Jade Phoenix Mage 5
Radiant charge, thicket of bladesstance, superior resistance
Back into JPM. You get a stance here, and unfortunately the timing is a bit awkward - you only have access to 5th-level maneuvers at this point, and both desert wind and devoted spirit have their stances at 6th. Go ahead and take thicket of blades as a consolation prize. On the other hand you do get an excellent charging maneuver in radiant charge, which combines with Lion Tribe Warrior to add on some very nice bonus damage to every single attack and buff you while you’re at it. And with superior resistance you also add on a huge bonus to all your saves, one that lasts all day long.
14th
Jade Phoenix Mage 6
Firebird stance, jade phoenix master
While mystic fire stance can actually be pretty handy, I’m not a huge fan of firebird stance. Still, it can come in handy if you’re up against a fire-heavy foe.
15th
Jade Phoenix Mage 7
Arcane Strike
Desert tempest, greater dispel magic, irresistible dance
Ah, after seven levels of the inferior arcane wrath, you pick up the real deal: Arcane Strike. Most of your spells have been focusing heavily on either utility or long duration buffs that you can cast early and then ignore. This allows you to feed any leftover spell slots into some very significant bonus damage. Unlike arcane wrath, which restricts you to a single attack, this bonus damage lasts all round and can really add up fast. And speaking of spells, you have the ability to pick up greater dispel as a 5th, so by all means do so. While you have a lot of competition for good 5ths, it’s a must have spell and a good contender for the best debuff in 3.5, and you’ll soon be able to quicken it for free. You also get irresistible dance two spell levels early, and since you don’t mind being in melee range, the fact that it’s a touch spell shouldn’t slow you down in the least. As for your maneuver, desert tempest is a strike that allows you to move and attack multiple foes, essentially duplicating the dervish’s signature ability in a single maneuver. Being a strike, it also allows you to trigger the JPM abilities, making it doubly good.
16th
Jade Phoenix Mage 8
Quickening strike
Energy absorption
I mentioned there were advantages to taking GDM as a 5th, right? Here is why it’s important: with quickening strike, you now get a free quicken for any 5th-level or lower spell once an encounter after using a strike. There are very few ways for a spontaneous caster to quicken spells, making this even more handy. As for your spell, go ahead and take another key defensive spell: energy absorption. This is another spell that lasts all day, provides resistance to every single energy type and lets you completely ignore one strong energy attack and even convert it into healing. It’s a great “nope!” option and well worth adding to your daily buffstack.
17th
Jade Phoenix Mage 9
Salamander charge, dragonsight, disintegrate, greater teleport
Salamander charge doesn’t have the damage bonus of radiant charge, but it allows you to bypass most of the charging restrictions while also setting up a wall of fire behind you. That’s worth it in cool points alone, even if it’s a bit weak for the level. Don’t worry, your spells will more than make up for it: dragonsight gives you multiple new methods of vision, including blindsense, all day long, greater teleport is one of the most essential and gamechanging spells around and disintegrate combines nicely with empowering strike and can be a powerful blast spell or excellent utility as needed.
18th
Jade Phoenix Mage 10
Martial Study (raging mongoose)
Emerald immolation
Mind blank
It might not come into play very frequently, but emerald immolation is probably the downright coolest capstone around (perhaps only challenged by the truenamer’s capstone). And when it does come into play, it can be absolutely gamechanging, so yeah, own your status as a legendary phoenix and rise from the ashes. But realistically you don’t really want to die at all, so you should pick up the granddaddy of all defensive spells: mind blank. This completely shuts down an entire school of magic and a whole host of other effects and lasts all day long. It’s absolutely essential at this level.
Oh, and while you don’t get a maneuver at this level, you do hit IL 15 here, so you can spend your feat on Martial Study to nab an 8th-level maneuver. There is little better than raging mongoose for you, which gives you a whopping four extra attacks as a swift action.
19th
Sublime Chord 2
Song of arcane power
Greater anticipate teleportation, glass strike, greater shadow evocation
With JPM finished you can go ahead and take another level in sublime chord, which progresses your casting and gives you song of arcane power. I shouldn’t have to explain why getting a +4 CL to a spell before casting is great, especially while setting up your daily buffs. And as for spells, greater anticipate teleportation is another must-have spell at high levels to avoid teleportation ambushes, giving you ample time to set up your defenses. Glass strike is a save-or-die, which you really haven’t messed around with yet; while mostly you’re not that interested in them, it’s nice to have in your toolkit and it’s a rare Fort-based save-or-die that will work on the undead. And finally, as a spontaneous caster you just can’t beat the raw flexibility of greater shadow evocation (made even better if you can use it to duplicate spells like contingency).
20th
Sacred Exorcist 2
Detect evil, resist possession
Time stop
One last level. This can be anything that gives you +1 BAB and progresses casting; for simplicity’s sake I went with another level of sacred exorcist, but you can play around a bit. This will put you just high enough to nab a 9th-level spell. It’s really hard to go wrong here, and I often default to shapechange for the incredible flexibility it provides (and the ability to gently break the game when I need to pull out the big guns), but here I decided to take a different tack and use time stop. It’s an absolutely iconic spell, and a great way to set up necessary buffs if you’re ever caught unawares. It can even be empowered with your JPM’s empowering strike. You’ll more or less never regret having this one, so enjoy.
Spells
0- Detect magic, prestidigitation, message, daze, mage hand, dancing lights
1- Sleep, swift invisibility, grease, improvisation, charm person
2- Alter self, glitterdust, whirling blade, bladeweave
3- Haste, scrying
4- Enervation, ruin delver’s fortune, greater mirror image, dimension door
5- Dismissal, overland flight, greater dispel magic, dragonsight
6- Superior resistance, irresistible dance, disintegrate, greater anticipate teleportation
7- Energy absorption, greater teleport, glass strike
8- Mind blank, greater shadow evocation
9- Time stop
Maneuvers/Stances
1- Wolf fang strike, sudden leap, moment of perfect mind, burning blade, distracting ember, counter charge, child of shadowstance, hunter’s sensestance
2- Flashing sun, foehammer
3- Thicket of bladesstance
4- Divine surge
5- Radiant charge
6- Desert tempest
7- Salamander charge
8- Raging mongoose
Stats are a little bit awkward to start off with, but once you hit the necessary pre-reqs for everything, you’ll quickly become something very close to Cha-SAD. You need a Dex of 15 for TWF, while Strength is still necessary for attack and damage. I recommend starting off with a Charisma of 16 and splitting your remaining point buy between Strength and Dex. Once you hit that 15 minimum (or 16 for the quick AC boost if you are using a high enough point buy), you can pretty much ignore Dexterity entirely, and mostly focus on boosting Charisma and Strength via items.
Note that if you’re starting at a higher level and can afford (and find) feycraft weapons, you can conceivably drop Strength down to an 11 or 12 and instead focus heavily on Dexterity. You’ll need to bump your Strength to 13 by ECL 9 to qualify for Stone Power, but gloves of ogre strength will be relatively cheap by that level.
Beyond that, though… Charisma, Charisma, Charisma. Not only does it drive your spellcasting, but it will also get added to your attack, damage and AC. Wisdom is your dump stat, and while you probably don’t want an Int penalty due to the many skill requirements of sublime chord, you won’t need higher than a 10.
SAMPLE STAT ARRAYS:
28-Point Buy: Str 14/Dex 15/Con 10/Int 10/Wis 8/Cha 16
32-Point Buy: Str 14/Dex 16/Con 12/Int 10/Wis 8/Cha 16
Your skills are mostly pretty locked in thanks to the hefty requirements from things like sublime chord. Feel free to dump any leftovers into the Cha-based skill of your choice.
Your typical gish accoutrements, plus slippers of battledancing to get even more mileage out of your Charisma focus. Get some nice TWF boosters as well, like gloves of the balanced hand.
BUILD SUMMARY
You hit the basic gish benchmark of 9th-level spells and +16 BAB, and have 8th-level maneuvers to boot. Charisma drives your spellcasting, attack rolls, damage rolls and AC. You’ve got tons of good defensive options, and offensively you’re no slouch: TWF, pounce, Charisma to attack and damage, Arcane Strike, raging mongoose… you basically have it all.
At low levels you’ll play almost like a ranger, pouncing with two weapons and sending your riding dog or wolf out to fight alongside you, with some spells and maneuvers to augment your prowess. You’re not too bad defensively even at the very beginning, thanks to a passable Dex, the ability to wear armor and the 20% miss chance from child of shadow stance. As the mid-levels progress you begin shifting more and more of your focus to spellcasting, working mostly with long duration defensive buffs and utility and relying on things like Arcane Strike and pounce to drive much of your damage.
VARIANTS
There’s certainly room to play with maneuver and spell selection, and you have at least one free level that can easily be swapped. That said, there isn’t much reason to deviate too far from the main build stub.
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And there you have it! Feel free to comment, discuss or check out one of the others!