Scribe scrolls

[Mrark]

I'm starting a new campaign as a wizard, but the scribe scroll feat isn't something i will ever use. Is there a way to change it to something else? I remember reading something about it, but I'm not sure about it. Thanks for the help:smallsmile:

[DeTess]

This wonderful thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?444354) collects pretty much all the alternative class features, so its a great resource if you don't like a class feature and want to see if there are other options.

Now, for scribe scroll, it seems your only option is this one from UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard) which lets you pick a fighter bonus feat instead of scribe scroll, but which also rewrites the list of bonus feats you get at levels 5, 10 15 and 20 to only use the list of fighter bonus feats, which is a somewhat questionable trade. Still, there are probably some nice feats you can get that way if you really dig through your books (martial study is a fighter bonus feat, iirc).

[Doctor Despair]

Improved Initiative is a good option, too! :)

[Mrark]

Improved Initiative is a good option, too! :)

Can I take it instead of scribe scrolls?

[Doctor Despair]

Can I take it instead of scribe scrolls?

As someone pointed out upthread, yes. :)

Wizard
Some wizards trade their knowledge of magic and craft to improve their combat prowess.

Gain
Bonus feat list (as fighter; bonus feats gained at 1st level and every five levels as wizard).

Lose
Scribe Scroll, wizard bonus feat list.

[Mrark]

As someone pointed out upthread, yes. :)

Wizard
Some wizards trade their knowledge of magic and craft to improve their combat prowess.

Gain
Bonus feat list (as fighter; bonus feats gained at 1st level and every five levels as wizard).

Lose
Scribe Scroll, wizard bonus feat list.

Yeah but losing all the wizard bonus feats..

[DeTess]

Yeah but losing all the wizard bonus feats..

You don't lose them, you can just only pick them from the fighter bonus feat list.

[Mrark]

You don't lose them, you can just only pick them from the fighter bonus feat list.

Are there good feats for a wizard in that list?

[DeTess]

Are there good feats for a wizard in that list?

Depends on which sources your DM allows you to use. Improved initiative is good, as is martial study from tome of battle. I suggest doing your own research as well because there might be things you'll like that others will overlook.

[ShurikVch]

More stuff:

This Conjurer variant (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#enhancedSummoning) trades Scribe Scroll to Augmented Summoning, and bonus feats - to extra enhancements for your summons

If Dragon magazine is OK, then:

#357: Eidetic Spellcaster - trades Scribe Scroll and Familiar to independence from physical spellbook
#324: Filidh - trades Scribe Scroll to Filidh Knowledge, and bonus feats - to Greater Divining (CL boost for Divination spells)
#312: There are three new variants of Necromancy specialist - Deathwalker, Fleshcrafter, and Soul Reaper. (All three aren't get neither Scribe Scroll, nor other usual bonus feats) Deathwalker with levels becomes more and more like Undead (and at 20th level - Undead completely). Fleshcrafter is focused on creating things from parts of living creatures (Stitched Flesh Familiar, Animated Objects, and Flesh Golems). Soul Reaper - catches souls for benefits, gets couple of bonus feats, and creates Undead Servants (could be completely sentient, and with class levels).

[Biggus]

Are there good feats for a wizard in that list?

If you're a ray specialist Weapon Focus, Improved Critical and Precise shot are all useful.

More generally, there's Improved Toughness (CW), good for squishy Wizards.

[Miss Disaster]

On a related note, I believe Paizo's official Pathfinder Society play allows a wizard to legally swap-out Scribe Scroll for a Spell Focus: "X" feat.

I'm not sure if WotC ever allowed something similar in their official 3.5 Organized Play system.

[Ramza00]

A good external list from a different website molivero dot com has a section that is very thorough called.

"VARIANT CLASSES, ALTERNATIVE CLASS FEATURES, AND SUBSTITUTION LEVELS"

[Mrark]

A good external list from a different website https://molivero.com/ has a section that is very thorough called.

"VARIANT CLASSES, ALTERNATIVE CLASS FEATURES, AND SUBSTITUTION LEVELS"

What is this?

[tiercel]

Are there good feats for a wizard in that list?

Partly it depends on how long you’re staying in the Wizard class — if you’re hopping into a prestige class at the earliest opportunity, then you can probably find one or two (even generically) good fighter bonus feats. If you’re staying a Wizard for a while for whatever reason, successive fighter feats presumably become less attractive unless you have something specific in mind.

A couple of specific edge cases:

(For a gnome variety) Dodge + Titan Fighting: Plain Dodge is pretty lousy, but Titan Fighting kicks it up to +4 dodge AC vs any single opponent bigger than you

Light Armor Proficiency + Exotic Armor Proficiency (gnome twistcloth, Races of Stone): now you can wear armor for which armor bonus (1+enhancement bonus) applies vs touch attacks. Make it githcraft (DMG II) for 0% ASF

—

Improved Toughness is not bad for d4 HD wizards, but note that a single-classed wizard can’t take it at 1st or 5th level due to the requirement base Fort save +2.

Martial Study is nice in principle but also a bit tricky on a wizard with no initiator class levels, being stuck with a first-level maneuver at 1st or 5th level.

[Ramza00]

What is this?

It is someone’s personal website. Type the words into google do not go to the website main page and you will see he assembled a list of 3.5 stuff.

[Segev]

Just to play devil’s advocate: why won’t you ever use scribe scroll? It’s handy for making piles of situationally-useful spells. Especially low-level ones. You can make low-level spell scrolls literally in a few hours before bed. First level scrolls cost 12.5 gp to scribe.

[Mrark]

Just to play devil’s advocate: why won’t you ever use scribe scroll? It’s handy for making piles of situationally-useful spells. Especially low-level ones. You can make low-level spell scrolls literally in a few hours before bed. First level scrolls cost 12.5 gp to scribe.

Using exp really annoys me..

[Thunder999]

Scrolls are cheap enough to just buy them.

[Segev]

Using exp really annoys me..

Isn't it only 1 xp for a level 1 scroll?

[Thurbane]

I would humbly suggest the following for the Martial Wizard ACF (depending on how you want to play your wizard, of course):

1 - Improved Initiative
5 - Martial Study [Action Before Thought] (use Concentration Check instead of Ref save)
10 - Martial Study [Mind Over Body] (use Concentration Check instead of Fort save)
15 - Improved Toughness
20 - Martial Study [Shadow Stride] (teleport 50 ft as a move action)

OK, so the level 15 and 20 options aren't amazing, but a Wizard would really appreciate the ability to use a Concentration check instead of Ref or Fort saves.

[tiercel]

5 - Martial Study [Action Before Thought] (use Concentration Check instead of Ref save)

Assuming minimum initiator level counts as a prerequisite, this doesn’t quite work as a 5th level wizard has only IL 2 (and needs IL 3 to choose a second-level maneuver).

....If minimum initiator level doesn’t count as a prereq, then a looooooooot of folks are going to like Martial Study (Mountain Tombstone Strike) at, well, any level.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Isn't it only 1 xp for a level 1 scroll?

It's
1=1
2=6
3=15
4=28
5=45
6=66
7=91
8=120
9=153


Aka chump-change compared to the xp from level appropriate encounters.

[Thurbane]

Assuming minimum initiator level counts as a prerequisite, this doesn’t quite work as a 5th level wizard has only IL 2 (and needs IL 3 to choose a second-level maneuver).

....If minimum initiator level doesn’t count as a prereq, then a looooooooot of folks are going to like Martial Study (Mountain Tombstone Strike) at, well, any level.

Yep, I miscalculated. Maybe I rounded up instead of down. Need to be level 6 as a non-initiating class to take that maneuver.