Thoughts on Medium Armor Master

[Drizztguen]

I’ve been wondering what people think about the medium Armor master feat. I’m working on a padlock for my next campaign, variant human with this as my starting feat. I can swap out my chain mail starting equipment for scale mail, and with a shield that gives me 19 AC at level 1. If I take the defensive fighting style at Paladin level 2 I’m up to AC 20, and if I swap in half plate that goes to 21. Plus I don’t get disadvantage on stealth.

I haven’t read many comments on this feat, but it does seem to have its merits.

Any thoughts?

[Drizztguen]

I forgot to mention since I’m going padlock I won’t be putting a lot into my strength (going hexblade so I’ll be using charisma for attacks) which also makes my character less MAD.

[cutlery]

You'll need a dex of 16 for the full benefit.

If I was worried about AC and stat points were scarce, I'd probably wear heavy armor, as a 15 is cheaper than a 16.

If I went dex instead and wore medium armor, I'd probably just live with being a point down in ac; you'd want to get MAM early to get the most out of it and to not waste that 16 dex; if you have a 14 dex you need another ASI four levels later to get that AC bonus.

[Zhorn]

Agreeing with cultery, all things being equal, getting 15 STR and spending a feat on Heavily Armored will have a quicker payoff than getting Medium Armor Master and 16 DEX and

Unless you already have the 16 DEX, that will require at least one ASI spent on getting to 16 to get the full benefit, resulting in two feats.

Heavily Armored comes with a +1 to STR, so you only need a 14 before taking the feat and you'll be set for wearing Plate.

[Unoriginal]

Medium Armor Master is a feat worth its price, but it's not talked about a lot because there are very few builds where the PC wants to stop at DEX 16 yet want to be stealthy.

If you have a 16 DEX score, low STR score and don't care to improve either, it's worth it.

[Eldariel]

MAM lets you have full AC while still being stealth competent. Essentially it improves your Stealth-capable AC by 2 if you have your 16 Dex. It might be worth it on its own on a very small minority of builds but unfortunately it generally loses out against ASI or top tier feats. So there are very few builds that can really afford to pick it up.

[Arkhios]

Medium Armor Master is a feat worth its price, but it's not talked about a lot because there are very few builds where the PC wants to stop at DEX 16 yet want to be stealthy.

If you have a 16 DEX score, low STR score and don't care to improve either, it's worth it.

Expertise in Stealth one way or another, and a loss of 2 points (16 vs 20) is nothing compared to a double proficiency bonus.

a STRogue perhaps?

[Unoriginal]

Expertise in Stealth one way or another, and a loss of 2 points (16 vs 20) is nothing compared to a double proficiency bonus.

a STRogue perhaps?

A STRogue or an armored Bard could benefit from it, yeah.

[Amechra]

Medium Armor Master is a solid feat if the following things are true:

1) You already have proficiency in medium armor. (Because taking Moderately Armored + Medium Armor Master is a bit of a big ask.)
2) You value Dexterity more than Strength, or can't use heavy armor in the first place. (Because otherwise you could just take Heavily Armored and save yourself some stat points.)
3) Dexterity isn't your best ability score. (Because if it is, light armor isn't going to cost you an extra ASI to max out.)

The only characters I can think of that would get the most benefit out of it are Barbarians and non-Druid spellcasters with medium armor proficiency. I could maybe see a Strength-based rogue picking it up if they got medium armor proficiency from elsewhere? But yeah, those are the main ones. So yeah, your Padlock should be fine.

...

The main reason people don't discuss it (except for in the perennial threads about how medium armor kinda sucks) is because it's a really boring feat to build around. Being slightly better at wearing armor isn't as fun as, say, being a good verbal mimic (from Actor), being a master of parkour (from Athlete or Mobile) or having solid tanking potential (from Sentinel). And that's before you get into feats like Elven Accuracy/Healer/Polearm Expert, which are mechanically interesting (Healer's on that list purely because it turns Rogues into surprisingly competent combat medics).

[Unoriginal]

A Druid other than Moon might find it useful, too.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Really depends on DM interpretation both for this feat as well as stealth. I played a Paladin with a level in Rogue and expertise in athletics and stealth. Generally got favorable rulings, so me and the other stealthy characters generally got surprise, and I was able to use the shove before attacks. The result was a whole lot of damage before the baddies could do anything as well as hitting with advantage. In this case it was super effective and way better than any +1 to hit and damage I could have got.
But rulings and play styles vary.

[heavyfuel]

My thoughts are: It sucks.

Theoretically, you can get 18 AC with a Half-plate and 16 Dex, but why/how the hell do you have 16 points in a tertiary score?

If Dex is your primary stat, you're better off with light armor. While 18 AC is technically better than 17 AC you get from Studded Leather and 20 Dex, is the 1 point of AC really worth a feat? And I can't even think of a situation where Dex is a secondary score, beating out Con but losing to whichever is your primary score is.

[Dork_Forge]

It's a solid feat for upping your armor game if you're using medium armor anyway, the generally feeling from the thread is don't bother if your Dex is max, but MAM is still better than studded leather.

If you have a free feat, go for it. If you have a great set of rolls so you don't need the first two ASIs for your primary, go for it. Playing a Dex based Fighter with all those ASIs to burn? Go for it!

It gets harder to justify over bumping a stat for me however.

[Unoriginal]

My thoughts are: It sucks.

Theoretically, you can get 18 AC with a Half-plate and 16 Dex, but why/how the hell do you have 16 points in a tertiary score?

Some people roll, and I've seen people suggest DEX over CON for casters.


Oh, Trickster Clerics might want it too.

[Amechra]

A Druid other than Moon might find it useful, too.

That depends on whether or not your DM allows you to purchase wooden armor. :p

I'd seriously consider dipping a level or two into Monk before taking MAM on a Druid.


My thoughts are: It sucks.

Theoretically, you can get 18 AC with a Half-plate and 16 Dex, but why/how the hell do you have 16 points in a tertiary score?

If Dex is your primary stat, you're better off with light armor. While 18 AC is technically better than 17 AC you get from Studded Leather and 20 Dex, is the 1 point of AC really worth a feat? And I can't even think of a situation where Dex is a secondary score, beating out Con but losing to whichever is your primary score is.

For casters without access to heavy armor that don't rely on Concentration spells, I'd actually prioritize Dexterity over Constitution. After all, reducing the number of times you get hit also reduces the number of Concentration saves you'll have to make. Plus, it's pretty easy to start off with Dexterity 15, which the feat boosts up to 16 (coincidentally also grabbing you +1 to initiative and to a bunch of skills).

The big boost is getting medium armor/shields, since that boosts your Wizard with a 14 Dex from AC 14/15 to AC 18 with a shield.

[Eldariel]

It's a solid feat for upping your armor game if you're using medium armor anyway, the generally feeling from the thread is don't bother if your Dex is max, but MAM is still better than studded leather.

If you have a free feat, go for it. If you have a great set of rolls so you don't need the first two ASIs for your primary, go for it. Playing a Dex based Fighter with all those ASIs to burn? Go for it!

It gets harder to justify over bumping a stat for me however.

Free feat over Lucky or Alert or Observant or Res: Wis/Con or Mobile or whatever? IMHO the opportunity cost is way too huge.

[CheddarChampion]

I think it is mostly fine as a V. Human feat if you'll only play at low levels.

#1 16 Dex + Studded Leather: 15 AC, +3 to Dex
#2 18 Dex + Studded Leather: 16 AC, +4 to Dex, 1 ASI required
#3 20 Dex + Studded Leather: 17 AC, +5 to Dex, 2 ASIs required

#4 14 Dex + Breastplate: 16 AC, +2 to Dex
#5 14 Dex + Half Plate: 17 AC, +2 to Dex, disadvantage on stealth

#6 16 Dex + Breastplate: 16 AC, +3 to Dex
#7 16 Dex + Half Plate + MAM: 18 AC, +3 to Dex, 1 ASI required

+1 Dex gives you +1 to initiative, +1 to Dex saves, +1 to Dex checks and skills.
ASI/feats are considered as interchangeable here.
For a V. Human, the cost of 1 ASI is lower than normal. But it is still considerable.

#6 vs #7: one free ASI vs +2 AC.
#2 vs #7: +1 Dex vs +2 AC.
#4 vs #7: 4 free point buy points and 1 free ASI vs +1 to Dex and +2 AC.
#5 vs #7: 4 free point buy points and 1 free ASI vs +1 to Dex, +1 AC, no disadvantage on stealth.

So decide for yourself if the tradeoffs are worth it.
Str/Full Plate vs Dex is a whole other can of worms.

[Dork_Forge]

Free feat over Lucky or Alert or Observant or Res: Wis/Con or Mobile or whatever? IMHO the opportunity cost is way too huge.

It depends on what kind of character you're going for, if your character uses medium armor anyway and you can afford the Dex (if it's not your primary, even then every point of Dex brings it's own plethora of benefits) then it's a straight upgrade and allows you to stealth with the party. Disadvantage on stealth can really suck and make you the one that give up the sneak approach.

If you're not going to be stealthing or using medium armor by default then don't bother obviously, but it's a feat I'd like on my Battle Smiths that's for sure.

[heavyfuel]

Plus, it's pretty easy to start off with Dexterity 15, which the feat boosts up to 16 (coincidentally also grabbing you +1 to initiative and to a bunch of skills).

I think you confuse Moderately Armored (which does increase Dex) with Medium Armor Master (which doesn't)


Some people roll, and I've seen people suggest DEX over CON for casters.


Oh, Trickster Clerics might want it too.


For casters without access to heavy armor that don't rely on Concentration spells, I'd actually prioritize Dexterity over Constitution. After all, reducing the number of times you get hit also reduces the number of Concentration saves you'll have to make.

Okay, but then you're also spending a feat on +1 AC. As Eldariel has very aptly put it:


Free feat over Lucky or Alert or Observant or Res: Wis/Con or Mobile or whatever? IMHO the opportunity cost is way too huge.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Dork_Forge]

Okay, but then you're also spending a feat on +1 AC. As Eldariel has very aptly put it:


And removing your stealth penalty, if you were avoiding that penalty by not advancing past Breast Plate, well the jump is bigger as nothing is stopping you going to Half Plate now.

[sithlordnergal]

Its going to depend on the build. In general, you're better off using Heavy Armor because it gets you the same benefits of Medium Armor Master, outside of removing Stealth disadvantage, with minimal effort. You technically don't even need to meet the Strength requirements for Heavy Armor, you just lose 10 feet of movement if you don't meet said requirements.

Medium Armor Master is generally better for multiclass Martial/Full Casters, or classes that can use Medium Armor but not Heavy Armor. Stuff like a Fighter/Wizard who maxes out their Int and has a couple of ASI's to use might find it nice to get Medium Armor Master because now they can have a base 21 AC with mundane equipment, provided they took Defense for their Fighting Style, while keeping their full speed. On a Paladin/Hexblade, I think you'll be fine with it. You won't need to invest in Strength, so that frees up a few ASI's.

[Frogreaver]

Some people roll, and I've seen people suggest DEX over CON for casters.


Oh, Trickster Clerics might want it too.

I prefer dex on most full casters (initiative is very important for them IMO), but this one has a 13 str requirement. I would go heavy armor with that (assuming point buy).

If stealth was really that important I think taking the expertise stealth feat at that point would be the best option.


Its going to depend on the build. In general, you're better off using Heavy Armor because it gets you the same benefits of Medium Armor Master, outside of removing Stealth disadvantage, with minimal effort. You technically don't even need to meet the Strength requirements for Heavy Armor, you just lose 10 feet of movement if you don't meet said requirements.

Losing 10ft of movement is a big deal, and an even bigger deal on a melee character. I wouldn't do this.

[Amechra]

I think you confuse Moderately Armored (which does increase Dex) with Medium Armor Master (which doesn't)

Ah yes, I did.

Well, it should say something that I was able to mentally add a +1 to Str or Dex to the feat without it being imbalanced.

[heavyfuel]

And removing your stealth penalty, if you were avoiding that penalty by not advancing past Breast Plate, well the jump is bigger as nothing is stopping you going to Half Plate now.

That can be done by getting a Mithral Half Plate. The opportunity cost here is simply not getting an Adamantine one, but Crits in 5e aren't too terrible.


Ah yes, I did.

Well, it should say something that I was able to mentally add a +1 to Str or Dex to the feat without it being imbalanced.

Indeed! :smallbiggrin:

[Dork_Forge]

That can be done by getting a Mithral Half Plate. The opportunity cost here is simply not getting an Adamantine one, but Crits in 5e aren't too terrible.


You're equating a feat choice with a magic item, one is a player decision, the other is a DM decision.

If you want to frame it that way though, then the feat is worth a +1 set of mithral medium armor of your choice.

[heavyfuel]

You're equating a feat choice with a magic item, one is a player decision, the other is a DM decision.

While the DMG does lump mithral/adamantine armors/weapons with magic items, it's been my experience that most DMs are faaaar more willing to allow players access to these things.

To get a proper magic item, you need to either find it or hope the dm allows you to get one crafted. To get mithral/adamantine gear, all you need is some of the metal and someone willing to forge it for you. Discovering which group of people has access to rare - yet fungible - material is way easier than tracking down a specific magic item.

Its more akin to tracking Diamonds for a Raise Dead spell than tracking something like a Ring of Invisibility.

[Dork_Forge]

While the DMG does lump mithral/adamantine armors/weapons with magic items, it's been my experience that most DMs are faaaar more willing to allow players access to these things.

To get a proper magic item, you need to either find it or hope the dm allows you to get one crafted. To get mithral/adamantine gear, all you need is some of the metal and someone willing to forge it for you. Discovering which group of people has access to rare - yet fungible - material is way easier than tracking down a specific magic item.

Its more akin to tracking Diamonds for a Raise Dead spell than tracking something like a Ring of Invisibility.

That's a tabel difference then as that's neither my experience as a player, how I run it or how it's presented in book.

Mithral and Adamantine are listed as magic items, if you ignore that and treat them as standard equipment then no wonder a feat that makes wearing armor better has less appeal to you.

[heavyfuel]

That's a tabel difference then as that's neither my experience as a player, how I run it or how it's presented in book.

Mithral and Adamantine are listed as magic items, if you ignore that and treat them as standard equipment then no wonder a feat that makes wearing armor better has less appeal to you.

I wonder if Mithral and Adamantine weapons in games such as yours suddenly stop working inside AMFs.

And if so, what happens if you're wearing a Mithral Breastplate under your clothes and you enter an AMF. Does it burst your shirt open?

And if not, isn't that proof that they're definitely not standard magic items?

[cutlery]

If you can get your hands on plate proficiency (you can) and a good ranged attack (eldritch blast), I don't see much point in trying to be a lackluster stealther.

You'll still never be as good as a rogue or bard with expertise in stealth.

If you're building a stealther, use the feat for skulker instead, get lots of dex, do dex things (like wear studded). You can still smite with a rapier.

[Dork_Forge]

I wonder if Mithral and Adamantine weapons in games such as yours suddenly stop working inside AMFs.

And if so, what happens if you're wearing a Mithral Breastplate under your clothes and you enter an AMF. Does it burst your shirt open?

And if not, isn't that proof that they're definitely not standard magic items?

They don't stop working, they lose their extraordinary properties, because they're magic items.

As far as proof goes, they are in the magic items section of the DMG and are assigned a rarity, however you like to play them doesn't change the fact that RAW, they are indeed magic items and your comparison is basically 'it's not very good as a feat, just grab an uncommon item.'

[Drizztguen]

Thanks everyone, lots to ponder.

[heavyfuel]

They don't stop working, they lose their extraordinary properties, because they're magic items

One of the extraordinary properties of a Mithral Breastplate is being able to wear it under clothing. So, what happens to your clothing when you enter an AMF?

[Dork_Forge]

One of the extraordinary properties of a Mithral Breastplate is being able to wear it under clothing. So, what happens to your clothing when you enter an AMF?

Honestly it would depend on my mood and if I actually remembered the character had clothes on top, in reality though it literally doesn't matter. You're trying to argue that magical items aren't magic items to devalue a feat you don't have a high regard for.

At the end of the day you can choose to take MAM as long as feats are allowed (which seems very common), you can't just choose to have mithral unless your DM is giving you a free choice of uncommon item, at which point you'd probably be better off choosing something else a lot of the time.

[OvisCaedo]

I really don't think mithral armor is meant to actually be magical, I think 5e's sort of sloppy formatting just had no other section to put "unique" equipment properties into. (then again, I think it's not the first edition to do this either. 3.5 listed the mithral shirt similarly, it just also had the detail listed of it explicitly not being actually magical) It's just a kind of metal. But it IS a rare one, so at least by base game design, it shouldn't "really" be any easier to find than any other item of the same assigned rarity, enchanted or not.

I was going to try to make a comparison to adamantine weapons being listed but also being given very straightforward availability/price guidelines in Xanathar's, but uh. It looks like they didn't actually HAVE adamantine weapons in the DMG at all, despite the chunk of original MM monsters who had resistance to non-adamantine weapons. So that's kind of silly, but at least probably a good sign that the two special metals weren't really given much thought to begin with.

[heavyfuel]

I really don't think mithral armor is meant to actually be magical, I think 5e's sort of sloppy formatting just had no other section to put "unique" equipment properties into. (then again, I think it's not the first edition to do this either. 3.5 listed the mithral shirt similarly, it just also had the detail listed of it explicitly not being actually magical) It's just a kind of metal.

That's my opinion as well. They just list it there, but they're not actually magical.


you can't just choose to have mithral unless your DM is giving you a free choice of uncommon item

But it IS a rare one, so at least by base game design, it shouldn't "really" be any easier to find than any other item of the same assigned rarity, enchanted or not.

This is what I don't agree with. If you want a Cloak of Elvenkind - another Uncommon item - the only to get it is by somehow finding a Cloak of Elvenkind. However, if you want a Mithral Half-plate, but you instead find a Mithral Scale Mail, you can just take it to a blacksmith and have them use that metal to make you a Half-Plate instead. Or you can find some mithral ore. Or you can find a few mithral weapons.

With the sheer number of possible mithral items in existance, finding enough mithral to have a half-plate forged is like 20 times easier than finding a specific uncommon item.

Yeah, the DM still has the final word on whether or not you find it, but the same is true for literally everything in the game.

[Dork_Forge]

This is what I don't agree with. If you want a Cloak of Elvenkind - another Uncommon item - the only to get it is by somehow finding a Cloak of Elvenkind. However, if you want a Mithral Half-plate, but you instead find a Mithral Scale Mail, you can just take it to a blacksmith and have them use that metal to make you a Half-Plate instead. Or you can find some mithral ore. Or you can find a few mithral weapons.

With the sheer number of possible mithral items in existance, finding enough mithral to have a half-plate forged is like 20 times easier than finding a specific uncommon item.

Yeah, the DM still has the final word on whether or not you find it, but the same is true for literally everything in the game.

There is nothing to disagree with here, it's an uncommon item that is entirely DM or module specific.

As a DM I have never given out and as a player I've never found any mithral in 5 years of playing and 4 of running. So it's a big jump to assume that you can not only find some, but that you'll find enough to melt down into armor, but besides that...

Please point me to the specific part of the rules that would allow you to have an existing item melted down and recrafted into something you want, because again, it sounds like DM rulings on specific tables.

And none of this even touches on the fact that comparing a feat to an uncommon item is beyond apples to oranges.

[heavyfuel]

Please point me to the specific part of the rules that would allow you to have an existing item melted down and recrafted into something you want, because again, it sounds like DM rulings on specific tables.

Wait... You really want me to quote you rules text that says metals can be forged? Lol, sure thing. I'll get right on it, buddy. While I'm at it, would like rules text that says food contains calories or that says fire is hot?

[Dork_Forge]

Wait... You really want me to quote you rules text that says metals can be forged? Lol, sure thing. I'll get right on it, buddy. While I'm at it, would like rules text that says food contains calories or that says fire is hot?

Whether or not you agree with it or think that it makes sense, Mithral items are included as uncommon in the Magic Items section of the DMG. The only actual rules we have pertaining to them (that I can see) is the magic item creation rules that require a blueprint, materials and so on.

Run it however you like at your own tables, but it is very clearly not as clear cut as making anything out of steel, those are the rules we actually have to play with.

[Jerrykhor]

Honestly its a really awkward feat. Like most people have mentioned, its very odd to leave 16 in Dex, because if you do, its not your main stat, and yet its a very high investment just for AC.

The only build i can see that might consider this feat, is a Barbarian who has rolled 16 in Dex. But if you do, its likely you rolled at least 16 or higher for Con, because you wouldn't have your Dex be higher than Con.

The awkward part is if you rolled 15 in Dex. Do you spend your ASI on +1 Dex first? Or take the feat first? Even if you go variant human and start with the feat, you still cannot benefit from the +3 Dex to medium armor. Either way, you cannot enjoy the full benefits until the next ASI when you have both. IMO this should have been a half feat (+1 Dex) like Heavy Armor Master.

[SLOTHRPG95]

I find that it occupies a similar space as TWF fighting style: strong at low levels, passable through some amount of tier 2, and then a falloff. On the one hand, a VHuman Fighter starting with MAM can hit an AC 20 (with no stealth disadvantage!) at 1st level with 16 Dex, Scale Mail, Defense fighting style, and a shield. On the other hand, 16 Dex is a big ask for a non-Dex Fighter if you're going point buy, and if you're playing a Dex-based Fighter then you'll likely max out at 6th level, and lose only one point of AC relative to MAM w/ Studded Leather. If you're playing in a gold-poor game, then its usefulness might be extended a bit further as Half Plate costs half of what Full Plate does, and Scale Mail costs a quarter of Splint. Otherwise, it's a feat I could see picking up on a Trickery Cleric or a stealthy Valor Bard, or maybe a STRanger if I rolled stats and rolled high.

[KorvinStarmast]

I used it on my vHuman gloom stalker.
Good for a scout to have some AC.

I used it on my (lvl 14) half orc Champion.
He also had defensive fighting ability and dueling fighing ability. (+1 def)
He eventually had a +1 half plate and a +1 shield.
And shield master was his last feat.

It worked together pretty well.

[SLOTHRPG95]

I used it on my (lvl 14) half orc Champion.


I feel like this is another situation in which it's a decent pick: when you're already on your 5th+ ASI, and can afford to start picking up some more niche benefits. I just usually play in/run campaigns that tend to not go past level 12 or 13 at the highest, making the opportunity cost somewhat higher.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Honestly its a really awkward feat. Like most people have mentioned, its very odd to leave 16 in Dex, because if you do, its not your main stat, and yet its a very high investment just for AC.

The only build i can see that might consider this feat, is a Barbarian who has rolled 16 in Dex. But if you do, its likely you rolled at least 16 or higher for Con, because you wouldn't have your Dex be higher than Con.

The awkward part is if you rolled 15 in Dex. Do you spend your ASI on +1 Dex first? Or take the feat first? Even if you go variant human and start with the feat, you still cannot benefit from the +3 Dex to medium armor. Either way, you cannot enjoy the full benefits until the next ASI when you have both. IMO this should have been a half feat (+1 Dex) like Heavy Armor Master.
It's a trade off. If you want a stealthy character it's 2 AC points (1/2 plate and +3AC gives you 18 AC). Otherwise you are stuck with Breastplate and Dex +2 or investing an 18 Dex +4 and Light to get AC 16. If you aren't intending on using the Stealth then it definitely isn't worth it.
It worked well on my Paladin as I could get a good AC and put other ASIs into Chr and Feats. However, if I'd played the character to tier 4 it probably would have started to be counterproductive: once Ch is maxed and I had my 2 feats, probably I wouldn't have had a good place for my level 19ASI. More feats I suppose.
Probably this feat is best on things like Clerics with Med Armor who aren't going to be attacking too much.

[Witty Username]

My thoughts on Medium Armor Master:

Question 1) Is your dexterity 16?
Question 2) Are you proficient in stealth, and planning on using it?

If you answered yes to both of these questions then medium armor master is worthwhile since it will represent a +2 to AC in effect.
metrics Dex 16
studded leather 12 +3 = 15
breastplate 14+2= 16

Half-plate with Medium Armor Master 15+3 = 18

[Yuroch Kern]

I’ve been wondering what people think about the medium Armor master feat. I’m working on a padlock for my next campaign, variant human with this as my starting feat. I can swap out my chain mail starting equipment for scale mail, and with a shield that gives me 19 AC at level 1. If I take the defensive fighting style at Paladin level 2 I’m up to AC 20, and if I swap in half plate that goes to 21. Plus I don’t get disadvantage on stealth.

I haven’t read many comments on this feat, but it does seem to have its merits.

Any thoughts?


I forgot to mention since I’m going padlock I won’t be putting a lot into my strength (going hexblade so I’ll be using charisma for attacks) which also makes my character less MAD.

Sounds like you are putting at least a 16 Dex. Solid plan. MAM is a great feat, since everyone can generally get medium armor proficiency, most enemies wear it if you need new stuff, and even if you aren't proficient in Stealth, at least a +3 will be decent enough to let you take a shot. Outside magic. a 21 AC is great too, well done. Never count on getting magic or special items that you want, no matter what others parrot. \m/

[cutlery]

Sounds like you are putting at least a 16 Dex. Solid plan. MAM is a great feat, since everyone can generally get medium armor proficiency, most enemies wear it if you need new stuff, and even if you aren't proficient in Stealth, at least a +3 will be decent enough to let you take a shot. Outside magic. a 21 AC is great too, well done. Never count on getting magic or special items that you want, no matter what others parrot. \m/

Of course, a 15 in strength with no feat gets you heavy armor - if you aren’t proficient in stealth (and don’t plan to be) I wouldn’t spend a feat on MAM.

If you are proficient in stealth, you’d be better served spending an asi on dex to go from 16 to 18 and sticking with light armor.

Because if you plan to actually use stealth, I’d want a batter score.

Maybe a rogue multiclass with medium armor, where you use expertise to make up for the moderate dex, perhaps?

[Vogie]

I used it on my Fire Genasi Artificer. Half plate, +3 dex, +1 for infusion gets my AC to 19 with only 16 dex, making me decent at firing my crossbow while still able to focus my further upgrades on my Int, without giving up stealthiness in a party with 2 heavy armor wearers.

[Yuroch Kern]

Of course, a 15 in strength with no feat gets you heavy armor - if you aren’t proficient in stealth (and don’t plan to be) I wouldn’t spend a feat on MAM.

If you are proficient in stealth, you’d be better served spending an asi on dex to go from 16 to 18 and sticking with light armor.

Because if you plan to actually use stealth, I’d want a batter score.

Maybe a rogue multiclass with medium armor, where you use expertise to make up for the moderate dex, perhaps?

I believe this Padlock build is steering toward stealth with a decent AC, since it lends itself to the frontline. Even if you were to get the 18 Dex, studded leather would only get you 19 AC, with a....+6 Stealth? I don't know the total level or multiclass split. With MAM and a Dex ASI, AC is 21 and a +6 Stealth. All it takes is a single proficiency pick. While difficult, a straight Dex check of +3 isn't terrible. Disadvantage is what really messes up Stealth attempts.

[Segev]

With the new “flexible racial modifiers” rules, I think Mountain Dwarves are good candidates for Medium Armor Master. Put one of their +2s into Dexterity, and they can turn a 14 into a 16. Or even a 13 into a 15 that a half-feat could get to 16.

A Mountain Dwarf wizard putting dex as his secondary stat would not be remiss anyway.