Core + Complete series E6 builds.

[H_H_F_F]

We might be starting an E6 campaign soon, for the first time. DM has approved the core 3 books, as well as Complete warrior, divine, arcane, and adventurer.

I'd like to play a melee mundane or a gish, and I'd like to stay in the same neighbourhood power-wise as the others, who will play mid-op casters. Any suggestions?

I'm not looking to be as powerful as a caster, just to not be completely useless.

[NigelWalmsley]

Sorcadin (Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4) seems like an okay choice for a gish build in that environment. Duskblade would be perfect if you could convince your DM to allow the PHBII.

[H_H_F_F]

Duskblade would be perfect if you could convince your DM to allow the PHBII.

Not gonna happen, I'm afraid.

I felt like Sorcadin would probably not work as great in E6, As I won't be able to really pump Cha up, and will have very low HP. Am I off on that?

Thank you, either way!

[NigelWalmsley]

Well, yeah. You're just not going to be able to make a great Gish in E6 if you're not allowed to go Duskblade. Sorcadin can still get decent saves (16 or 18 Charisma is reasonable with point buy), and your HP won't be cripplingly bad, particularly compared to a party of casters.

[Zarvistic]

You could also go with monk instead of paladin for the first two levels and take ascetic mage at 6.

[Caylin]

Isnt cleric 6 a reasonable gish with those book limitations?

[H_H_F_F]

Isnt cleric 6 a reasonable gish with those book limitations?

I don't want to play a tier 1. I'm looking for "good melee fighter", which can be supported by magic or not, not for "good at anything".
Thank you for your suggestion, regardless.

[Boci]

I don't want to play a tier 1. I'm looking for "good melee fighter", which can be supported by magic or not, not for "good at anything".
Thank you for your suggestion, regardless.

Clerics aren't automatically good at everything, they have to be build. Take war domain + something, take combat feats, ready combat spells. You can also put your strength higher than your wisdom. You'll be good at combat, not everything. You'll still be a swiss army knife, because you can ready other spells, but you won't be a tier 1 caster if you don' try. If that's still too much, Cleric 4 / Fighter 2 is also good.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

There are only two serious gish classes in E6, and it appears you have access to neither: Duskblade in PH2, and the best is a Mystic Ranger in Dragon 336 p105, with Sword of the Arcane Order in CoV, preferably with the wild shape variant in UA/SRD, animal forms from MM3, Magical Training in PGtF, with Frostblood Half-Orc in DM and the half-humans and humanlike races variant in RoD. Yes, it takes a lot of different books to put together enough synergy to squeeze a proper gish out of six class levels. But enough of the what-ifs.


You'll have access to Wraithstrike due to Complete Adventurer, which pairs well with Power Attack.

Can you get a weapon with a wand chamber, found in Dungeonscape? If so, you don't need to get 2nd level spells, just use a Wand of Wraithstrike instead. Per the Rules Compendium a spell trigger or spell completion item (wand, staff, scroll) takes the same action to activate as the spell being used, so a Wand of Wraithstrike is a swift action to activate. You don't necessarily even need to get that on your class spell list if you get UMD.

You've also got Bladeweave in CV without the SC nerf, and Whirling Blade in CA. I'll say your best bet for an arcane gish is going to be a Bard. Sadly you won't have Melodic Casting as it's in CM, but you'll be able to get Bladeweave and Whirling Blade and UMD a Wand of Wraithstrike.


Another option is to go with a Cleric or Druid. Sadly a Druid's best animal companion and wild shape form choices aren't in any of the books you've mentioned, but it's still viable. Cleric won't really be able to DMM: Persist due to a lack of Nightsticks in LM, but you can worship something like Zarus (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20041203a) with the Strength and War domains and use a greatsword.

[H_H_F_F]

You could also go with monk instead of paladin for the first two levels and take ascetic mage at 6.

Not really my style. Thanks for the suggestion.


Clerics aren't automatically good at everything, they have to be build. Take war domain + something, take combat feats, ready combat spells. You can also put your strength higher than your wisdom. You'll be good at combat, not everything. You'll still be a swiss army knife, because you can ready other spells, but you won't be a tier 1 caster if you don' try. If that's still too much, Cleric 4 / Fighter 2 is also good.

That's a good point, but I know myself. I'm going to have a hard time not preparing the spells I know I'd need to.

But based on that suggestion, maybe favoured soul? Or Paladin/ favoured soul? I don't think I've ever actually played one. What do you think?

[Caylin]

Also isnt the point of E6 that the tier gap is much smaller if even there at all?

But anyways ok you dont want cleric. Tome of battle or duskblade would solve the problem but are off the table.

barb 2 wiz 4 for lols?

[Boci]

But based on that suggestion, maybe favoured soul? Or Paladin/ favoured soul? I don't think I've ever actually played one. What do you think?

That could work yes. Full favoured soul for 3rd level spells, or Paladin 2 / FS 4 for cha to saves and you still the second level buffs, plus divine favour (might want to practised spell caster to make the bonus +4). Either one should work. If your not casting save spells you'll only need 14 or 16 charisma, the rest can go in strength and con.

[lylsyly]

given your limitations and desires I would say the Sorcadin is probably your best bet.

Paladin 2 for a the BAB, HP and charisma to all saves
Sorcerer 4 and concentrate on the buffing spells
ABS = CHA>STR>CON>DEX>INT>WIS
Self buff and swing your sword

[H_H_F_F]

Thank you everyone for your insights and suggestions!
I haven't seen any mundane suggestions, if anyone has those I'd love to hear them - though I suppose that's difficult without ToB...

I'm considering some of the suggestions made here so far. Thanks again!

[Boci]

Thank you everyone for your insights and suggestions!
I haven't seen any mundane suggestions, if anyone has those I'd love to hear them - though I suppose that's difficult without ToB...

I'm considering some of the suggestions made here so far. Thanks again!

Mundane classes work well in e6. Full BAB gets 2 attack, which is reasonably power. Fighter might be not that great, because you'll be getting dimishing returns on the bonus feats, but barbarian should be solid. You can rage twice per day, hit stuff hard, and with extra rage from complete warrior you have enough rages that you should be reliably having one in every encounter. Full paladin should also work.

[lylsyly]

Thank you everyone for your insights and suggestions!
I haven't seen any mundane suggestions, if anyone has those I'd love to hear them - though I suppose that's difficult without ToB...

I'm considering some of the suggestions made here so far. Thanks again!

Straight Barbarian, LOL. or use Paladin or Ranger for just a tad of casting ability.

[Darrin]

Meatbags:

Fighter 6: PA/Leap Attack/Shock Trooper is perfectly serviceable. No pounce, but that's hardly unusual in E6. DPS-wise, you're toe-to-toe with a mounted lance + Spirited Charge.

Ranger 2/Barbarian 1/Fighter 1/Ranger +1/Horizon Walker 1. Take the Desert Terrain Mastery (immune to fatigue), fill out your feats with Extra Rage and you should have more then enough for a full day of encounters.

Unfortunately, Complete Scoundrel wasn't included in your list of allowed sources, so Daring Outlaw (Swash 3/Rogue 3) or Swift Hunter (Scout 4/Ranger 2) doesn't appear to be available.

Gishy:

I'm not really seeing a lot here...

Swashbuckler 3/Wizard 3: This has some decent Int synergy, but gish builds depend a great deal on their swift-action spells, and unfortunately most of those are found in the Spell Compendium, PHBII, and Complete Mage. If your spell selection is just going to be whatever it is, Swashbuckler 3/Wu Jen 3 has about the same effectiveness given your sources, has some eastern flavor, and putting Spell Secret: Still Spell on your signature go-to spell has a little more utility over Wizard 3.

Bard 1/Fighter 2/Bard +2/Mindbender 1: Requires Practiced Spellcaster to satisfy the caster level requirement. Several things you can build off of here: Inspire Courage + Extra Music, Diplomancer-ish stuff, Telepathy for better party communication (but no Mindsight, unfortunately). Only gets 2nd level spells, but with a wand of CLW you're a back-up healer, and all-around utility infielder.

[Silly Name]

Mundane classes work well in e6. Full BAB gets 2 attack, which is reasonably power. Fighter might be not that great, because you'll be getting dimishing returns on the bonus feats, but barbarian should be solid. You can rage twice per day, hit stuff hard, and with extra rage from complete warrior you have enough rages that you should be reliably having one in every encounter. Full paladin should also work.

I find Ranger 2/Fighter 4 or Ranger 3/Fighter 3 to be an ok-ish build for E6 if you want to go Two Weapon Fighting. You get full BaB, your saves are decent, and you have a lot of feats to make the build.

6 levels of straight Fighter aren't that hot, but you can easily multiclass in Barbarian or Paladin too for some extra stuff, or even go Rogue if you feel like while staying pretty much mundane.

If you really want to, you could go full Ranger and pick Archery as your combat style for some extra ranged options, but focus on melee with the rest of your feat selections (Favored Power Attack is a nice feat for a melee ranger if your favored enemies pop up often enough).

[Maat Mons]

For that Fighter 6 build with Leap Attack, remember that Leap Attack requires Jump 8 ranks, which straight fighter can't get in E6 without the Martial Study Feat, which isn't within the allowed sources.

[Darrin]

For that Fighter 6 build with Leap Attack, remember that Leap Attack requires Jump 8 ranks, which straight fighter can't get in E6 without the Martial Study Feat, which isn't within the allowed sources.

Jump is a class skill for fighters, so I'm not quite seeing the problem there. The only issue I see with Leap Attack is it's not a Fighter Bonus feat, so you have to take it at 6th level, at the same time you take Shock Trooper (which can be taken as a Fighter Bonus feat).

[bean illus]

What do you mean by mid op casters?
Will there be any other front liner? Or are you dedicated to armor, and charging?

Do you have a ranged attacker?

By gish, can you depend on your dm giving ranger wands?

In e6 i have trouble feeling melee without high bab. A ranger can give you bab and wand-gish.

H PBS
R Mounted Combat
F Mounted Archery
R 2 Rapid Shot, Precise Shot

F 2 Improved Mounted Archery
R 3
R 4 Animal Companion, MS, IRS

Just enough skills to max ride, handle animal, and cover your bases.

You get bab +6, flanking buddies, trip, action economy (your ride and familiar both attack). Improved Mounted Archery is cool.

[Gorthawar]

A palasorc ends up with only 1 lvl 2 spell known. An alternative idea could be 3-4 levels of warlock seasoned to taste. With hideous blow you get an extra 2d6 damage to your standard action attack and you can use the invocations available and extra invocation feats for lots of utility. I'm partial to mixing it up with barbarian / intimidating rage / extra rage and frightful blast although it would be better with imperious command.

For mundanes a gnome/halfling paladin/beastmaster gets a pretty powerful mount (leopard for example) that can go most places due to medium size. Using a lance and the usual charging feats is great even if you don't get pounce.

[Maat Mons]

Sorry about thinking Fighters didn't get Jump as a class skill.

It seems I got confused. I remembered that last time I did an E6 ubercharger, I had to dip Barbarian, because the class I was taking most of my levels in didn't have jump as a class skill. I thought I remembered it being a Fighter build, and thus thought Fighter didn't get Jump.

But now that I think more on it, I remember it was actually a Paladin of Freedom build. I was using Paladin to get Turn Undead without losing any base attack bonus. I wanted Turn Undead to fuel Travel Devotion. And I couldn't lose any base attack bonus because Shock Trooper requires +6, and you can never get that in E6 if even one of your classes has less than full base attack bonus.

[SLOTHRPG95]

Fighter 1/Bard 4/Spellsword 1 gets you a +5 BAB and 2nd-level spells, and you're free to wear mithral breastplate (full plate w/ Battle Caster) and a heavy mithral shield w/ no spell failure chance. Or if you're fine with a divine gish, I'll second the previous suggestion of Fighter 2/Cleric 4.