The Black Obelisks in every adventure, and what they do. [Archive]

jaappleton

2020-09-13, 08:55 AM

Unoriginal

2020-09-13, 09:37 AM

I know what they do.

It’s big. It has huge implications for 5E and Forgotten Realms. This is a pretty huge deal.

How do I know? Honestly not important, I’m not giving up my sources. If you know me around here, you know I have a pretty good reputation of getting info a bit early.

You can choose to believe me, call me a liar, whatever. But I had this confirmed to me. I know it’s real.

Read it at your own risk. You might get extremely hyped, or possibly very angry. It’s nowhere near what I thought it was.

The Black Obelisks are the key to bring back the Netherese and the Netheril Empire.

Well I read the spoilers and don't know what that means.

However given how widespread on the map those obelisks are I'm gonna expect a wide-world adventure one of those days.

Or it'll just be part of the "setting bible" for FR 5e and never get addressed in a released product.

JackPhoenix

2020-09-13, 09:42 AM

I seriously doubt some stuff scattered through adventures has any impact on 5e as a whole, and unless it means the end of FR-pushing, I couldn't care less about what it means for that setting.

jaappleton

2020-09-13, 09:42 AM

Zhorn

2020-09-13, 09:47 AM

As someone that legitimately enjoys Forgotten Realms, I'm interested.

Amnestic

2020-09-13, 09:48 AM

Does that mean that FR's gonna get even more high magic than it already is?

jaappleton

2020-09-13, 09:51 AM

Does that mean that FR's gonna get even more high magic than it already is?

I think that’s a safe assumption to make.

Amechra

2020-09-13, 09:57 AM

... I thought that people generally figured out that this kind of thing was dumb back in the 90s?

Basically... who cares? Metaplot and setting secrets that you don't lay out in the DM's section are utterly useless and just a sign that the writers in question prize their own creativity and sense of cleverness over the actual playability of the material. I'm kinda disappointed, honestly.

Segev

2020-09-13, 10:49 AM

D&D seems to do metaplot on the scale of editions. All the printed adventures are happening more or less simultaneously and without direct impact on each other so even if you chain them interestedly are your table, you can do them in any order.

But with the turn of the editions, FR usually has some big event that is used to explain the rules changes between editions. This can and does change the face of Toril. For example, I’m pretty sure Mezro was present in prior editions, rather than a ruin that is almost entirely emptied of valuables as it is in Tomb of Annilhilation.

Dork_Forge

2020-09-13, 11:08 AM

Segev

2020-09-13, 11:15 AM

Err what black obelisks? I just took a quick gander at Lost Mines to see what you mean and couldn't see anything. Can you give some examples please?

Th e only one I know of is in the courtyard of the Tomb of the Nine Gods. In Tomb of Annihilation. It has a function in the module, but is not crucial.

micahaphone

2020-09-13, 11:19 AM

Err what black obelisks? I just took a quick gander at Lost Mines to see what you mean and couldn't see anything. Can you give some examples please?

Edit: Bell of Lost Souls covers this, looks like it's from Rime of the Frost Maiden, interesting I guess, doesn't seem the kind of thing most players would be aware of or care aboutl...

In Out of the Abyss in the Gracklestugh chapter
in the whorlstone tunnels, the derro sorcerer(s) are researching a weird black obelisk with teleportation powers that no one understands or can control. npc interactions with it have caused some surface world currency and other odds and ends to end up down in the underdark. it can teleport players outside of the city or other shenanigans from the DM.

Amnestic

2020-09-13, 11:30 AM

D&D seems to do metaplot on the scale of editions.

I think that’s a safe assumption to make.

So they're setting up 6e's big setting shift?

Edea

2020-09-13, 11:33 AM

You get magic, you get magic, EVERYBODY gets magic!

ProsecutorGodot

2020-09-13, 12:08 PM

You get magic, you get magic, EVERYBODY gets magic!

You say this sarcastically but I thought it was appropriate to allow my players to pick up a cantrip of their choice when they got planeshifted to a setting with a significantly higher magical saturation than the one they came from.

I'm interested in big shakeups. I'm new to DND starting this edition, it's important to remember that there are many people like me who haven't gone through several setting shakeups.

I assume the spoiler in question was well known in prior editions, but mention of it in 5E is barely whispers. I wouldn't know what it was if I wasn't such a massive nerd reading up on lore for fun.

Azuresun

2020-09-13, 12:12 PM

Does that mean that FR's gonna get even more high magic than it already is?

And also that Mystra is going to die.

Amnestic

2020-09-13, 12:43 PM

And also that Mystra is going to die.

What, again?

Segev

2020-09-13, 12:46 PM

Yeah, if they do this, it’ll probably be for changing to 6e mechanics.

And also that Mystra is going to die.

What, again?

Maybe Mystral will reincarnate, or Karsus will ascend.

Mith

2020-09-13, 01:19 PM

Yeah, if they do this, it’ll probably be for changing to 6e mechanics.

Maybe Mystral will reincarnate, or Karsus will ascend.

Mystral as a more Chaotic Neutral approach to magic could be interesting. I hope it's not Karsus ascending. That would just nullify his Folly.

Edea

2020-09-13, 04:13 PM

jaappleton

2020-09-13, 04:31 PM

Mystra might as well be a phoenix for how many times she keeps dying and coming back to life, good grief.

Also I'm 100% down for fully-accessible, class-agnostic magical mayhem, just in case my sarcasm earlier made it sound like I'm not.

I'm trying to remember correctly. Its been quite a few years, so forgive me if I get some details wrong. I have to preface this with how I know of it first:

I started D&D with 4E, and I started fairly late in its life cycle. Rather than buy all the books, to get started, I found it much more economical to get a D&D Insider account. That was the 4E character builder, and it was... thoroughly 'fine'.

But I remember something about the Spellplague happening, and there was this kind of hidden class in the character builder you could only access if you selected a Spellscar background. It honestly wasn't very powerful because it never got the support the other classes did, but it was a unique and cool concept. In the world of 'class agnostic magical mayhem', this certainly seem like it'd fit the bill. People could cause magical effects with their blood, after all.

Remember, 4E didn't use 'spells' so much as everyone used 'powers', but I'd be very much open to something like it again. Unfortunately I'm not very well versed in lore, but I do believe they essentially backtracked on the Spellplague, didn't they?

Man_Over_Game

2020-09-13, 06:05 PM

Unfortunately I'm not very well versed in lore, but I do believe they essentially backtracked on the Spellplague, didn't they?

Kinda, yeah.

Ed Greenwood threw something of a bitch fit about his characters no longer being relevant, since the Spellplague kinda required a 100-year time lapse and, in his words, "140-year-old humans don't fight very well". So they worked on a "Second Sundering" that kinda undid everything that the spellplague changed in the long-term, while...also keeping it canon?

Like a classic comic retcon.

One thing that did stick was that the gods were stripped of most of their power, and weren't to muck around with mortals very much, which is why 4e heroes were so much more powerful and interfered directly with deities, while 5e heroes and gods are much more mundane in comparison.

Ao, God of Gods, basically got really sick and tired of the other gods getting too much power and messing around with everything (I think it was mostly because he was jealous), so he locked them all down and added a bunch of rules, which is why it takes 15 levels before you get to see Tiamat's avatar (which has to get summoned through a long series of rituals and other BS by her followers).

Hellpyre

2020-09-13, 08:08 PM

Segev

2020-09-14, 12:24 AM

It would seem like something of an odd choice to make, considering it would require bypassing the biggest decree of the deity of magic for the [SPOILERS] to return in a way at all similar to the way they are portrayed in lore. Plus undercutting a huge myth about the folly of hubris that has been inherent to the setting for decades.

That is only so if the [spoiler] is portrayed as a good thing, rather than something of a world-wide crisis that is swiftly leading to the destruction of the Realms.

DarknessEternal

2020-09-14, 12:29 AM

They keep the Eye of Terror contained.

Wait, am I on the right forum?

Segev

2020-09-14, 12:42 AM

They keep the Eye of Terror contained.

Wait, am I on the right forum?

Could be some sort of epic Beholder.

Mr Adventurer

2020-09-14, 02:09 AM

Does it include Nightstone? I thought that was explicitly Giantish?

ProsecutorGodot

2020-09-14, 04:50 AM

Does it include Nightstone? I thought that was explicitly Giantish?

No, it was a magical chunk of obsidian that no one knew the function of. The giants only believed it was something their ancestors made. I guess we know differently now.

I wonder if an obelisk being moved means anything for this.

Comaward

2020-09-14, 10:34 AM

I foresee one possible solution:

RELEASE THE PHAERIMM!!!

Segev

2020-09-14, 11:02 AM

I foresee one possible solution:

RELEASE THE PHAERIMM!!!

Then the Sharn return, after getting a bit lost because they visited the city of Sharn in Eberron.

OldTrees1

2020-09-14, 11:08 AM

We did a quick check of some hardcovers so I am wondering, where are these obelisks? (In spoilers of course)

KorvinStarmast

2020-09-14, 11:13 AM

I know what they do. They are the trigger for Richard Strauss' opening for "Thus Spake Zarathustra" to begin playing.
However given how widespread on the map those obelisks are I'm gonna expect a wide-world adventure one of those days. A published adventure from levels 1-20?

... I thought that people generally figured out that this kind of thing was dumb back in the 90s? It's a thing with humans, they keep trying the same old thing ...

The only one I know of is in the courtyard of the Tomb of the Nine Gods. In Tomb of Annihilation. It has a function in the module, but is not crucial. Unless they are going to now make it connected?
And also that Mystra is going to die. Sad Face. :smallfrown:

OldTrees1

2020-09-14, 11:50 AM

A published adventure from levels 1-20?

No, if it covers all of Faerun it will only be 5-16. :smallfrown: "Nobody plays tier 4 so we won't release content for tier 4." :smallmad:

Segev

2020-09-14, 11:56 AM

"Nobody plays tier 4 so we won't release content for tier 4." :smallmad:

Man, talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy.

OldTrees1

2020-09-14, 12:06 PM

Man, talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Yup, basically every level demographic has some related self-fulfilling prophecy.
IIRC: "People don't focus much time on Tier 1. Let's make Tier 1 & 4 take less xp but Tier 2 & 3 take more.

Segev

2020-09-14, 12:14 PM

Yup, basically every level demographic has some related self-fulfilling prophecy.
IIRC: "People don't focus much time on Tier 1. Let's make Tier 1 & 4 take less xp but Tier 2 & 3 take more.

To be fair, I think the logic on Tier 1 is more, "People have complained that they don't enjoy it as much, but feel it's needed to learn the ropes of the character/system, so we'll make it go relatively fast."

chainer1216

2020-09-14, 01:14 PM

How much you want to bet this has to do with that Faerun Magic: The Gathering set?

ProsecutorGodot

2020-09-14, 01:48 PM

How much you want to bet this has to do with that Faerun Magic: The Gathering set?

This has had hints long prior to this* crossover stuff with MTG. The earliest obelisk I'm aware of is from SKT, they've been casually tossing these mysterious, probably ancient and magical obelisks for at least 4 years.
I say "this" but the plane shift crossover stuff is from roughly the same timeframe

Hal

2020-09-14, 01:52 PM

Ao, God of Gods, basically got really sick and tired of the other gods getting too much power and messing around with everything (I think it was mostly because he was jealous), so he locked them all down and added a bunch of rules, which is why it takes 15 levels before you get to see Tiamat's avatar (which has to get summoned through a long series of rituals and other BS by her followers).

Unrelated to obelisks and such, but my settings have always had rules about planeshifting to explain this kind of stuff.

Basically, the amount of magical energy needed to bring something through a planar portal is equivalent to their metaphysical "size." You can spend a 3rd level spell slot to bring in minor creatures, and a 9th level spell slot will bring in some heavy hitters, but even those won't summon a god-level creature. For that, you gotta have cults, rituals, time, etc. That's also why you're far more likely to summon an avatar rather than the actual god/demon lord/archdevil.

I also have a framework for planar "distance," making it harder to pass through the planes that are further from each other. Thus why the demon lords aren't just popping in to Nessus to bring the Blood War right to Asmodeus; I'm sure he has wards and such, but it requires so much juice to make the trip that it's too costly to make.

JoshuaZ

2020-09-14, 02:40 PM

But with the turn of the editions, FR usually has some big event that is used to explain the rules changes between editions. This can and does change the face of Toril. For example, I’m pretty sure Mezro was present in prior editions, rather than a ruin that is almost entirely emptied of valuables as it is in Tomb of Annilhilation.

They really like doing this and it never has really made a lot of sense. For example, when they went changed to an addition that didn't have a separate assassin class and had the Time of Troubles, one thing that happened was they had a giant spell which killed every single assassin in the setting. This apparently made more sense than just saying that they were all mechanically rogues now. The need to have fluff for mechanical changes like this is apparently either an inability for them to understand that characters don't need to be literally their classes (e.g. a certain samurai having no levels in samurai) or that they really don't realize how flexible their own systems are.

noob

2020-09-14, 04:24 PM

Or maybe the obelisks will just make the oerth explode violently then the rest of the dnd settings will be on earth(which is included in the forgotten realms) and in the MTG planes.

Imbalance

2020-09-14, 06:25 PM

We did a quick check of some hardcovers so I am wondering, where are these obelisks? (In spoilers of course)

Ditto. So far, this thread mentions two.
Plot twist - if you use Kagrenac's tools on one, a Dwemer pops out.

Also, weren't the [spoilers] back already in some capacity? I thought I read that in some Neverwinter related lore stuff. I was using the idea as a premise for why the Sorcerer's spell focus was leaving him encrypted messages.

Iskande

2020-09-14, 07:06 PM

Err what black obelisks? I just took a quick gander at Lost Mines to see what you mean and couldn't see anything. Can you give some examples please?

Edit: Bell of Lost Souls covers this, looks like it's from Rime of the Frost Maiden, interesting I guess, doesn't seem the kind of thing most players would be aware of or care aboutl...

I dont even care for the Forgotten Realms all that much and I've been excited for figuring out what these damn pillars are for since at least Storm Kings Thunder in 2016. I love/hate a good mystery.

OldTrees1

2020-09-14, 07:34 PM

Ditto. So far, this thread mentions two.
Plot twist - if you use Kagrenac's tools on one, a Dwemer pops out.

Also, weren't the [spoilers] back already in some capacity? I thought I read that in some Neverwinter related lore stuff. I was using the idea as a premise for why the Sorcerer's spell focus was leaving him encrypted messages.

I was asking people to post more of these obelisks inside spoiler blocks
I did not find an obelisk but I might have missed it.

Dork_Forge

2020-09-14, 07:40 PM

I dont even care for the Forgotten Realms all that much and I've been excited for figuring out what these damn pillars are for since at least Storm Kings Thunder in 2016. I love/hate a good mystery.

To each their own, ime keeping plots like this away from DMs serves no purpose. If DMs knew then we could play it up to some degree.

I was asking people to post more of these obelisks inside spoiler blocks
I did not find an obelisk but I might have missed it.

I CTRL+F'd obelisk in Lost mines and got zero hits, so it's clearly not every adventure.

LudicSavant

2020-09-14, 07:43 PM

unless it means the end of FR-pushing, I couldn't care less about what it means for that setting.

I share this sentiment.

McSkrag

2020-09-14, 10:09 PM

Obelisk sighting:

In the village of Nightstone at the beginning of Storm King's Thunder.

MeeposFire

2020-09-14, 11:50 PM

I was always hopeful it’d open a portal to a new world. Sigil, maybe Spelljammer. Alas...

EDIT: @JackPhoenix
It does unfortunately mean they’re nowhere near done with stuff concerning Forgotten Realms. They aren’t going to build up to something by placing a very specific thing in almost every adventure since 5Es release leading up to this just to gloss over it.

It means something very big, something very Forgotten Realms, is coming.

Just so you know they would not need anything really special to go to Sigil or do anything with Spelljammer as those have been connected to FR (and other settings too) since their inceptions. For Sigil you just need a planar portal which means you need a key or of course high enough level magic (which FR is full of) and Spelljammer just requires having a ship and there are various races and factions on FR that you may find those at least traditionally.

Elbeyon

2020-09-15, 12:05 AM

Just so you know they would not need anything really special to go to Sigil or do anything with Spelljammer as those have been connected to FR (and other settings too) since their inceptions. For Sigil you just need a planar portal which means you need a key or of course high enough level magic (which FR is full of) and Spelljammer just requires having a ship and there are various races and factions on FR that you may find those at least traditionally.The only way to get into Sigil is a planar portal. The Lady of Blades controls all travel to Sigil through the portals. No one can just use magic to get inside of it. All planar travel fails. She blocks everyone, including the gods, from entering without her permission, and she says people have to use the portals.

MeeposFire

2020-09-15, 12:21 AM

The only way to get into Sigil is a planar portal. The Lady of Blades controls all travel to Sigil through the portals. No one can just use magic to get inside of it. All planar travel fails. She blocks everyone, including the gods, from entering without her permission, and she says people have to use the portals.

Sorry I always get ahead of myself and talk about Planescape in general and not just Sigil. That being said it is well known that you can get to Sigil and essentially anywhere else in the planes from FR (yes Sigil will require a portal but they exist in FR so it is not really an issue unless the DM wants it to be an issue).

opaopajr

2020-09-15, 08:53 AM

Eh, I already got a box set to that idea back in 2e. Dunno if I would be excited for it to come back into current FR. But at least it's not the Spellplague; I found that for me it scrubbed a lot of the diverse regional menaces for a less interesting 'elegance'.

I don't pay much attention to metaplot, as I just consider it optional alt history fun. :smallsmile: No real worries or anticipation by me.

Terebin

2020-09-15, 11:43 AM

I know what they do.... It’s nowhere near what I thought it was.

I'm curious what you thought they were

Willie the Duck

2020-09-15, 11:58 AM

They aren’t going to build up to something by placing a very specific thing in almost every adventure since 5Es release leading up to this just to gloss over it.

You say that, but (for example) WizKids include 'Clix points' with each purchase of their Heroclix, Mechwarrior, and so on collectable game figure came with absolutely no idea for what they were going to be used. Sometimes writers just put things in just in case something really big seems like a good idea at some point.

jaappleton

2020-09-15, 02:39 PM

I'm curious what you thought they were

I thought it was going to open a portal to somewhere. Spelljammer? Sigil?

Or maybe be the key to summoning some big bad, and any of the published adventures with an obelisk could have served as the lead-in to a high level adventure that’d start at Tier 3 and go through to 20.

Segev

2020-09-15, 02:43 PM

I thought it was going to open a portal to somewhere. Spelljammer? Sigil?

Or maybe be the key to summoning some big bad, and any of the published adventures with an obelisk could have served as the lead-in to a high level adventure that’d start at Tier 3 and go through to 20.

Well, the one in Tomb of Annihilation does something minor to help find the entrance, and, if broken, releases a Nalfeshnee that attempts to kill the party.

Imbalance

2020-09-16, 09:36 AM

You say that, but (for example) WizKids include 'Clix points' with each purchase of their Heroclix, Mechwarrior, and so on collectable game figure came with absolutely no idea for what they were going to be used. Sometimes writers just put things in just in case something really big seems like a good idea at some point.

"Thank you for asking about Clix Points. We intended these for a promotion that we ultimately decided not to run." ~from memory, but pretty close to the official statement eventually included in the HeroClix FAQ. I know, because I clipped and saved these religiously for two years, and we pestered them about it every chance we got, until they finally told us to shut up about it. I still have a good many that I kept. Stupid hoarder tendencies.

I'm still looking for these obelisks in the books and not finding any more than what were already listed. Seems like much ado about nothing if they aren't actually "in every adventure."

jaappleton

2020-09-16, 10:23 AM

"Thank you for asking about Clix Points. We intended these for a promotion that we ultimately decided not to run." ~from memory, but pretty close to the official statement eventually included in the HeroClix FAQ. I know, because I clipped and saved these religiously for two years, and we pestered them about it every chance we got, until they finally told us to shut up about it. I still have a good many that I kept. Stupid hoarder tendencies.

I'm still looking for these obelisks in the books and not finding any more than what were already listed. Seems like much ado about nothing if they aren't actually "in every adventure."

I mean... I intended to say what they do in every adventure they're in.

Apologies if it came across as something else. When I found out what they do, I was a bit excited to get the topic up to discuss it.

Segev

2020-09-16, 10:24 AM

I mean... I intended to say what they do in every adventure they're in.

Apologies if it came across as something else. When I found out what they do, I was a bit excited to get the topic up to discuss it.

Oh, so they do more than is written in the adventures? Or you're making a sort of index/summary of what each of them do in a single reference?

jaappleton

2020-09-16, 10:36 AM

Oh, so they do more than is written in the adventures? Or you're making a sort of index/summary of what each of them do in a single reference?

What they all do is revealed in Frostmaiden. They're all scatter across Toril, where Forgotten Realms takes place. And they are the key to doing what I said in the first post.

KorvinStarmast

2020-09-16, 11:01 AM

And they are the key to doing what I said in the first post.
Which, for my money, is about the last thing the FR needs, because I see that as implying a move to a silly level of "high magic" as the default for D&D.
But what should I expect from the company that brought us Magic: The Gathering?

Segev

2020-09-16, 11:09 AM

Which, for my money, is about the last thing the FR needs, because I see that as implying a move to a silly level of "high magic" as the default for D&D.
But what should I expect from the company that brought us Magic: The Gathering?

Let's be fair. WotC has owned D&D for 20 years, now.

Arkhios

2020-09-16, 12:29 PM

It would seem like something of an odd choice to make, considering it would require bypassing the biggest decree of the deity of magic for the [SPOILERS] to return in a way at all similar to the way they are portrayed in lore. Plus undercutting a huge myth about the folly of hubris that has been inherent to the setting for decades.

Epic Level Handbook. Mark my words.

...or some kind of D&D pastiche of Pathfinder's Mythic Rules...

:biggrin:

OldTrees1

2020-09-16, 12:32 PM

Epic Level Handbook. Mark my words.

:biggrin:

... I was going to explain why that was unlikely. But it seems possible. Still improbable. Based on current releases I expect anything themed as L5-L40 would be refluffed as L5-15.

sambojin

2020-09-16, 04:01 PM

Maybe WotC are sick of the setting and are going to Age of Sigmar it? (ie: they'll change everything, it'll suck for about 4-5years, and maybe become enjoyable after you buy a heap of new books after that, that let you kinda play the stuff like you used to).

And since MtG, if you're going to AoS something, and there's obelisks involved, I'm thinking dragon'ish godstyle planewalkers and/or eldrazi. It'll be as terrible as it sounds as crossover material and corporate product placement.

Unoriginal

2020-09-16, 05:02 PM

I was always hopeful it’d open a portal to a new world. Sigil, maybe Spelljammer. Alas...

At least

Frostmaiden doesn't exactly have no Spelljammer links, right?

JackPhoenix

2020-09-16, 10:08 PM

LurkytheDwarf

2020-09-17, 12:33 AM

Epic Level Handbook. Mark my words.

If they go that route, hopefully because of [ Spoiler ] they'll just give us 10th+ level spells instead of the epic spell system from 3.5. I mean...

https://i.ibb.co/gzqnLng/10thlevelspell.png
Sorry to you, Mr. Earth Elemental.