How do you handle Ready actions out of combat?

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Hello guys :)

The way I do it is:
"If you ready and action out of combat you can use it with your first round reaction."

That is how I handle it, it doesn't break the suprise mechanic and let the players feel better because their actions aren't useless.

Of course their enemies can do it too.
It makes suprise a little stronger but it still cost the reaction to use.

If it is a non combat action I count it as part of RP and let them do whatever they want with it(if it is a ready spell I still require them to use their concentration).


Edit:

I act like the character have the strain of continues combat as long as they ready an action.

Reading an action put strain on the body or mind IMO and if done for a long time will require a save for Exustion.

[Blood of Gaea]

Turns still happen outside of combat mechinically, we just don't need to pay them attention. Just consider them to be using their action each turn to continue holding that action following the normal rules.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I simply don't allow readying actions outside of initiative. Otherwise every monster they ever encounter would have an action readied against any intruder, and it would not be to the party's benefit.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Combat isn't the important thing. Initiative is. The two are not the same, even if combat is the main reason we use initiative.

And contra the previous person, turns don't happen outside of combat--that's a pure gamist abstraction. Time passes, sure. But turns don't--those are part of the initiative construct. And spells (especially) make it really weird to just "re-ready" your action each pseudo-turn. Plus being really cumbersome and duplicative of the initiative construct, since then everyone is always Readying an attack in potentially hostile situations.

There are two classes of sequenced actions (of which Ready is one sub-part):
* Actions with uncontested sequence.
* Actions with contested sequence.

If I hold the door for someone and pass through afterward, there's no contest as to who goes first (usually). So it just happens. This covers all the sorts of non-combat "Readied Actions" where timing matters for the fiction, but all the actors are willing to work together to do it in the right sequence. No big deal, no need to invoke mechanics here. It just happens.

If I'm trying to beat someone to something (say to pull a lever when someone walks onto a trap door), or the timing of my action depends on the action of someone who isn't willing to cooperate, then we need to decide who goes first. Do I have the chance to get into position before they've crossed? Even if combat isn't the direct result, we still roll initiative (with the 0-point set slightly before the trigger would go off). If I win initiative, I get to Ready as normal. If he wins initiative, I didn't react fast enough to pull the lever in time to affect him. And then things go on from there--we might even drop out of initiative after that. This process can (in the simple 2-person case with one being unaware) reduce it to a contested Initiative check without the formalism of the whole action-declaration process and turn-taking. But usually, this sort of contested sequence ends up devolving into combat on a failure anyway, so you might as well just roll initiative and do things normally.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

I simply don't allow readying actions outside of initiative. Otherwise every monster they ever encounter would have an action readied against any intruder, and it would not be to the party's benefit.

Shouldn't they need to be aware of an intruder or they are extremely paranoid?

[Unoriginal]

Shouldn't they need to be aware of an intruder or they are extremely paranoid?

If you can Ready out of initiative there is no reason why PCs don't have a "I attack the most threatening monster if they show hostility" Ready action all the time when they explore a dungeon, and there is no reason for guards who are on the lookout for potential intruders to not have a "I attack the intruder I have the best shot at hitting if they show they're hostile" Ready action.

It's just not what Ready actions are for. They're only for when the initiative is active and someone wants to delay their action based on the expectation of a trigger event happening later in the round.

[KorvinStarmast]

If we aren't in combat, one group I played with used initiative for whose turn it is to talk based on intelligence. That was our default turn order outside of combat.

For that group, it worked well enough.

Another group I was with (that is now disrupted) used Charisma for that mechanically and of course the Bard was always the first one to speak up. (Which kinda makes sense, as they are typically blabbermouths to start with ...)

[HappyDaze]

If you can Ready out of initiative there is no reason why PCs don't have a "I attack the most threatening monster if they show hostility" Ready action all the time when they explore a dungeon, and there is no reason for guards who are on the lookout for potential intruders to not have a "I attack the intruder I have the best shot at hitting if they show they're hostile" Ready action.

It's just not what Ready actions are for. They're only for when the initiative is active and someone wants to delay their action based on the expectation of a trigger event happening later in the round.

You obviously allow a lot more than I would with a readied action. I would not allow "most threatening monster" as a legit target nor "if they show hostility" as a trigger as both are far too open. Likewise "best shot at hitting" isn't something that I would allow. For targeting I usually have "nearest creature that is not a member of my party" and for trigger it usually has to e something the target does, like "moves within 5 feet of us" or "casts a spell" or "opens the door." And yes, I do have readied actions sometimes lead to unfortunate outcomes like shooting an innocent that rushes out of the brush as a monster chases it...because I'm that kind of DM.

[Lunali]

You obviously allow a lot more than I would with a readied action. I would not allow "most threatening monster" as a legit target nor "if they show hostility" as a trigger as both are far too open. Likewise "best shot at hitting" isn't something that I would allow. For targeting I usually have "nearest creature that is not a member of my party" and for trigger it usually has to e something the target does, like "moves within 5 feet of us" or "casts a spell" or "opens the door." And yes, I do have readied actions sometimes lead to unfortunate outcomes like shooting an innocent that rushes out of the brush as a monster chases it...because I'm that kind of DM.

I hope you tell your players about this rule change ahead of time as ready actions explicitly say that you can choose whether or not to take the action when the trigger happens.

[Man_Over_Game]

Hello guys :)

The way I do it is:
"If you ready and action out of combat you can use it with your first round reaction."

That is how I handle it, it doesn't break the suprise mechanic and let the players feel better because their actions aren't useless.

Of course their enemies can do it too.
It makes suprise a little stronger but it still cost the reaction to use.

If it is a non combat action I count it as part of RP and let them do whatever they want with it(if it is a ready spell I still require them to use their concentration).

That's a pretty dang complicated topic, what between:
People deciding on what makes Surprise possible.
Determining what Initiative actually is in-game.
Determining when the optimal time is to actually roll Initiative.
Rewarding player intuition vs. in-character actions and weaknesses.
Rewarding the metagame vs. taking unnecessary - but dramatic and interesting - risks.


Whenever it becomes a question of "What's best", you always gotta ask "What do I want?"

Is it to reward your players for every decision they make? Only for the good decisions they make? Is what they do in-character more important than what they have for stats or what their "normal" persona would do contrary to the character? Do enemies get the same opportunities with the mechanics as players? Should they? Do you want your players to become masters at gaming the game system, or do you want it to be a fluid simulation game?

I have a bunch of opinions on a lot of this, but I feel like these needed to be answered by every DM before they could really have a solid answer as to what the Ready Action should do out-of-combat, and I suspect that the opinions of any two DMs could vary drastically.

[Mikal]

Simple- you can’t.

[greenstone]

If you can Ready out of initiative there is no reason why PCs don't have a "I attack the most threatening monster if they show hostility"
Isn't that what every PC and monster is doing anyway?

Since both the PCs and their foes are always readying to attack, we need a mechanism to work out whose attack goes off first. A good way to do this would be to get all the actors in the scene to roll an Ability Check, say Dexterity. Highest gets to go first.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Isn't that what every PC and monster is doing anyway?

Since both the PCs and their foes are always readying to attack, we need a mechanism to work out whose attack goes off first. A good way to do this would be to get all the actors in the scene to roll an Ability Check, say Dexterity. Highest gets to go first.

But there is a big difference between reading an action and being ready fpr something.

If you are ready to shoot your bow(pooling the string and everything) all day you will greatly hurt your muscles and bones.
If you walk with your bow outside ready to use it in case of a fight you will not have an extreme amount of strain of your arms and back.

I see the first option as reading an attack with a bow, the character is in a place where she cam just released her attack, no need to do anything but him and reales the arrow (I think that bow is the best example but I handle it the same for every ready action).

I see the second option as a character aware there is a chance for danger.

If someone will try to ready his bow for a few hours (legendary heroes and everything are stronger then normal human, just look at carry capacity) I will ask him to roll for Exhaustion as I see it as the relevant mechanic.

It is the same as being ready to move, you aren't just standing there looking at the ceiling, your body is coiled like a spring ready to burst with the speed of full movement that take as little as a reaction.
Ones again, it should be a strain of the body.

I act with all the ready action like that.

Basically, I act like the character have the strain of continues combat as long as they ready an action.

I will add that to the opening post

[MoiMagnus]

I consider Ready Action to be a patch to the fact that combat are turn-based while the "universe" is not, so I consider that most of the time, there is no "in universe" fundamental difference between ready actions and non-ready actions.
[There are corner cases, obviously. Like with spells where readying actions use concentration]

When someone says "I'm waiting for this trigger", I understand "I'm waiting for the first round where this trigger is valid to use my action". So a "ready action outside of combat" is just the action of the first round.

I mean, the PC might say "I'm prepare an attack against the first monster I see coming out of this bush" while the monster will say "I prepare an attack against the first PC I see while coming out of this bush". Whose going to attack first? Depends on the initiative rolls, that's what the first round is for. What if someone was not prepared? That only happen when one group is taken by surprise (otherwise you probably hear the others before you get into attack range), so that's what surprise rules are for.

[HappyDaze]

I hope you tell your players about this rule change ahead of time as ready actions explicitly say that you can choose whether or not to take the action when the trigger happens.

Well, yes and no. Unless their readied action is to take a Perception check, they might just get information like "a creature throws open the door" or "a creature emerges from the brush" before having to decide whether to use the attack/spell that they readied for that trigger. If they opt not to use it, it's lost. If they opt to use it, they accept that they may hit someone/something that they may regret. Now, they can be a bit more specific in their selection of targeting by saying "if an X steps out of the brush then I shoot it" but then they don't get a shot if a Y steps out instead, so there are benefits and drawbacks to being specific with Ready.

[Unoriginal]

Isn't that what every PC and monster is doing anyway?

If that was the case, Surprise wouldn't be a thing.

People just aren't constantly Readying actions, and in fact can only do that when the initiative order is up. That's it.

[Kane0]

I tend to use round-table or side initiative so when i get a character wanting to ready i give them a heads up that it will start initiative if it hasnt already. Often this has a de-escalating effect on their approach, but sometimes they get cocky; either way i leave it to the players

[Demonslayer666]

I handle them by not allowing them.

You can be alert for danger, or distracted by doing another task. If you are distracted, you will most likely be surprised. If you are alert for danger, you get a perception check (in most situations) against being surprised.

That's how out of combat ready you can be, you cannot be more ready than that until combat starts.

[Jamesps]

I handle them by not allowing them.

You can be alert for danger, or distracted by doing another task. If you are distracted, you will most likely be surprised. If you are alert for danger, you get a perception check (in most situations) against being surprised.

That's how out of combat ready you can be, you cannot be more ready than that until combat starts.

I'd agree with this and most people here. You can't take the ready action outside of initiative passes. Basically anything that references rounds or combat (like dodging) I require to take place during initiative passes in most circumstances. Actions that reference periods of objective time (seconds, minutes, hours) I allow, but if a character takes actions consecutively every six seconds for long periods of time they'll start to accrue exhaustion.

[Keravath]

If such a situation comes up, I usually have everyone roll for initiative and resolve events in initiative order. Even if one side is not aware of the other.

Sometimes, if I know a narrative sequence is coming up that will work better if everyone takes turns and people's actions can affect each other then I will have the players roll initiative to resolve it. Sometimes these might involve combat and other times not. At least in my games initiative is not always synonymous with combat.

In addition, a combat round is 6 seconds. Initiative defines how quickly each character reacts/takes action in a combat relative to the others. All it does is define an order of actions allowing for the resolution of sequential events even though most of the actions take place simultaneously. It isn't a great simulation but it works.

[Tanarii]

I dont. Ready is only available in initiative, and only after your first turn.

Determining who resolves something first when people are trying to get off the first action is what rollong initiative is for.

[Xetheral]

I generally do not permit readying an action outside of combat. However, in exceptional circumstances I may permit it on an ad-hoc basis if doing so would be a better mechanical model for what is happening in the fiction.

As an example, let's say a PC is adjacent to a rune that, when touched, will magically destroy a 50' bridge. There is an orc on the far side of the bridge, and the PC wants to use the rune to destroy the bridge if the orc tries to cross. Played RAW, if the orc declares they are going to cross the bridge, combat doesn't start (no hostile actions have been declared) and the PC is able to destroy the bridge before the orc can successfully cross. However, if the orc declares that they are going to make an attack after crossing the bridge (doable via the orc's Aggressive trait) then combat starts and initiative is rolled. If the orc goes first, they are (somehow) able to cross the bridge and make an attack before the PC can destroy the bridge.

To resolve the incongruity of the orc being able to accomplish crossing the bridge in cyclic initiative despite being unable to without cyclic initiative, I would exceptionally permit the PC to Ready an action to touch the rune, even though combat hadn't started yet. In my opinion, that better mechanically models the unusual situation than adhering to RAW would. Rationally there is no way the orc could cross the whole bridge before the PC could touch an adjacent rule, and exceptionally permitting the Ready action outside of combat is an easy way to mechanically ensure that the rational result isn't sacrificed in the transition to initiative.

[PhoenixPhyre]

I generally do not permit readying an action outside of combat. However, in exceptional circumstances I may permit it on an ad-hoc basis if doing so would be a better mechanical model for what is happening in the fiction.

As an example, let's say a PC is adjacent to a rune that, when touched, will magically destroy a 50' bridge. There is an orc on the far side of the bridge, and the PC wants to use the rune to destroy the bridge if the orc tries to cross. Played RAW, if the orc declares they are going to cross the bridge, combat doesn't start (no hostile actions have been declared) and the PC is able to destroy the bridge before the orc can successfully cross. However, if the orc declares that they are going to make an attack after crossing the bridge (doable via the orc's Aggressive trait) then combat starts and initiative is rolled. If the orc goes first, they are (somehow) able to cross the bridge and make an attack before the PC can destroy the bridge.

To resolve the incongruity of the orc being able to accomplish crossing the bridge in cyclic initiative despite being unable to without cyclic initiative, I would exceptionally permit the PC to Ready an action to touch the rune, even though combat hadn't started yet. In my opinion, that better mechanically models the unusual situation than adhering to RAW would. Rationally there is no way the orc could cross the whole bridge before the PC could touch an adjacent rule, and exceptionally permitting the Ready action outside of combat is an easy way to mechanically ensure that the rational result isn't sacrificed in the transition to initiative.

Initiative is not only for combat. It's for any situation where timing and reaction speed is important. I'd have everyone involved roll initiative as normal, but short-circuit if the player goes before the orc (player.initiative > orc.initiative) and collapse the bridge instead of asking everyone else for their initiative.

And the orc, if he wins, can make it across the bridge by using Aggressive as well as moving. This fictionally represents him moving really really fast, faster than normal in a dead charge at a player. He rushes forward so fast that he's off the bridge by the time it really starts collapsing.

[BeefGood]

That's how out of combat ready you can be, you cannot be more ready than that until combat starts.

This is an interesting point! Let's phrase it differently: What, if anything, can you do before combat, to make yourself "more ready" for combat?
I can think of only two things: you can ensure that your sword is in one hand and your shield in the other, and you can move to an advantageous location.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

I'd agree with this and most people here. You can't take the ready action outside of initiative passes. Basically anything that references rounds or combat (like dodging) I require to take place during initiative passes in most circumstances. Actions that reference periods of objective time (seconds, minutes, hours) I allow, but if a character takes actions consecutively every six seconds for long periods of time they'll start to accrue exhaustion.

I agree with the bolded part.

As I added in the edit of the opening post, too long time of reading an action outside of combat will lead for a roll VS exhaustion in my games.
If you ready an action for an hour you will feel like you were in a fight for an hour because you put yourself on the same mental/physical strain.

I don't see why it shouldn't be allowed at all, nothing make combat different from not combat, it ia still the same world with the same rules.
It is not like a TV show where starting combat summon an arena or a new dimension.

[Demonslayer666]

This is an interesting point! Let's phrase it differently: What, if anything, can you do before combat, to make yourself "more ready" for combat?
I can think of only two things: you can ensure that your sword is in one hand and your shield in the other, and you can move to an advantageous location.

There are many possibilities: casting spells, drinking potions, activating magic items, hiding, offering up the halfling as a diplomatic solution.

[Hellpyre]

I don't usually allow the Ready action as such, but I am amenable to PCs planning out specific action sequences to take. If my players tell me "Elara is going to open the door, and I immediately take a shot at the first humanoid I see." I let them do that. If there is a humanoid in sight, it's functionally a suprise round as far as initiative is concerned.

If a different player says "I want to cast dispel magic if I see the red orb glow again when Finnen walks back up to it." I'd be fine with that. If your character, a highly-trained and combat-tested individual, expects a specific event and prepares for it, I feel it's reasonable to react more quickly if that specific event occurs.

Now if a player said "I want to walk around all day ready to shoot the first thing to attack me." I wouldn't allow them a bonus on that. The key to me is specific and immediate stimulus and response. Everyone who carrys a sword is expected to want to use it if something attacks them. The thing that makes a difference is having a good idea when and how that thing is going to attack you. You might be on guard in a tomb raid, but if you point and a sarcophagus and say "I fireball that if it moves." Then you have a specific objective in mind. You don't get to fireball a shadow creeping out of a wall, and you certainly can't just say you want to fireball the next enemy.

(It also helps that I tell my players they can incur disadvantage on other perception checks by focusing enough on an action to have that quicker reaction. That tends to keep it to being used only when there's a reason to expect a certain outcome.)

[Rakoa]

Well, yes and no. Unless their readied action is to take a Perception check, they might just get information like "a creature throws open the door" or "a creature emerges from the brush" before having to decide whether to use the attack/spell that they readied for that trigger. If they opt not to use it, it's lost. If they opt to use it, they accept that they may hit someone/something that they may regret. Now, they can be a bit more specific in their selection of targeting by saying "if an X steps out of the brush then I shoot it" but then they don't get a shot if a Y steps out instead, so there are benefits and drawbacks to being specific with Ready.

Do your players not have high enough Passive Perception to tell a human from an ogre?

[Xetheral]

Initiative is not only for combat. It's for any situation where timing and reaction speed is important. I'd have everyone involved roll initiative as normal, but short-circuit if the player goes before the orc (player.initiative > orc.initiative) and collapse the bridge instead of asking everyone else for their initiative.

And the orc, if he wins, can make it across the bridge by using Aggressive as well as moving. This fictionally represents him moving really really fast, faster than normal in a dead charge at a player. He rushes forward so fast that he's off the bridge by the time it really starts collapsing.

That's not an acceptable outcome for me, personally. Realistically, without cyclic initiative, there is simply no way that an orc can run more than 50' before the PC can move his hand and touch a rune. Exceptionally allowing the PC to ready an action out of combat in this situation entirely resolves the situation and is a minor exception to make. Accordingly, I find it a good solution at my table to use in circumstances like the example.

[Sigreid]

I have initiative rolled but don't actually enter combat cycles. The initiative just determines if ready actions come up the sequence of them.

[Tanarii]

This is an interesting point! Let's phrase it differently: What, if anything, can you do before combat, to make yourself "more ready" for combat?
I can think of only two things: you can ensure that your sword is in one hand and your shield in the other, and you can move to an advantageous location.
Attempt to launch an ambush.

[Lunali]

Initiative is not only for combat. It's for any situation where timing and reaction speed is important. I'd have everyone involved roll initiative as normal, but short-circuit if the player goes before the orc (player.initiative > orc.initiative) and collapse the bridge instead of asking everyone else for their initiative.

And the orc, if he wins, can make it across the bridge by using Aggressive as well as moving. This fictionally represents him moving really really fast, faster than normal in a dead charge at a player. He rushes forward so fast that he's off the bridge by the time it really starts collapsing.

While I agree with the sentiment that initiative can be used outside of combat, the example in use is one that I would consider to be combat. IMO, initiative for the combat should have already been rolled at the time the narration of events began. In other words, either the orc comes into view already aware of the PC and charges across the bridge before they can really react or the orc is surprised to see the PC and hesitates long enough for them to get ready to drop the bridge.

[Tanarii]

While I agree with the sentiment that initiative can be used outside of combat, the example in use is one that I would consider to be combat. IMO, initiative for the combat should have already been rolled at the time the narration of events began. In other words, either the orc comes into view already aware of the PC and charges across the bridge before they can really react or the orc is surprised to see the PC and hesitates long enough for them to get ready to drop the bridge.
Why? I mean, if the PCs want to burst through a door you can place them on the other side of it an then roll initiative. You don't need to start with the first character opening the door and the PCs all outside the room. Start when the interesting action happens.