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Frosty
2007-11-01, 04:08 PM
I've npticed that a relatively small amount of monsters focus on ranged attacks, and virtually none on using actual projectile weapons like bows. I wonder if that's saying anything about projectile weapons being underpowered without a ridiculous amount of splatbook and feats to back it up?

Can you guys think of any monsters that mainly rely on ranged physical attacks?

Fax Celestis
2007-11-01, 04:09 PM
Arrow Demon. Medusa. Manticore. Basilisk. Cockatrice.

SurlySeraph
2007-11-01, 04:11 PM
Erinyes, too.

Artanis
2007-11-01, 04:11 PM
NPC Elves, maybe?

SpikeFightwicky
2007-11-01, 04:15 PM
Arrow Demon. Medusa. Manticore. Basilisk. Cockatrice.

Cockatrice? Don't they petrify on a melee peck?

Other options:

Devil -> Erinyes, Harpy (they're statted as using clubs, but their 'advanced' version is a ranged character. It shouldn't take much to give a basic harpy a bow), most humanoids have the option of melee or ranged.

MobiusKlein
2007-11-01, 04:16 PM
Giants? Boulders are pretty nice damage when they hit.

cupkeyk
2007-11-01, 04:20 PM
The pixie, grig, thorn, nixie, they have bows and sneak attack dice or sleep arrows for sniping. The pixie can actually use Improved Invisibility too. The redcaps have an eldritch stone ability.

The harpy has an entry for a harpy archer. The flying playable race from RoTW, uhh I can't recall what they are called, lolz, they have a racial familiarity with those foot bows.

Giants specialise in hurling rocks and even get a prestige class for it.

tainsouvra
2007-11-01, 04:21 PM
Much like players, most intelligent foes in my campaigns have some sort of ranged weapon or ranged units, but few (if any) rely on them exclusively.

Fax Celestis
2007-11-01, 04:23 PM
Cockatrice? Don't they petrify on a melee peck?

Other options:

Devil -> Erinyes, Harpy (they're statted as using clubs, but their 'advanced' version is a ranged character. It shouldn't take much to give a basic harpy a bow), most humanoids have the option of melee or ranged.

Good catch. I thought it was a gaze attack.

Raolin_Fenix
2007-11-01, 04:33 PM
In general, monsters tend to rely on melee because they're, well, monsters. Most monsters are lacking either in intelligence (to create a projectile weapon) or opposable thumbs (with which to use a projectile weapon). A couple might be able to shoot spikes, or something. But intelligent, five-fingered monsters are in the minority.

SpikeFightwicky
2007-11-01, 05:12 PM
Easy ranged devastator (if you use the 'Complete' splat books, specifically, Complete Adventurer):

Take a hill giant (or reasonable faccimile), remove improved bullrush, weapon focus (greatclub) and improved sunder feats, and replace with quick draw, weapon focus (rock) and power throw (brutal throw? it's the one that lets you use STR instead of DEX when using thrown weapons) feats. Now his full attack block looks like:

Greatclub +15/+10 melee (2d8+10) or 2 slams +15 melee (1d4+7) or rock +16/+11 ranged (2d6+7) <-- and this is from 120 feet away.

Frosty
2007-11-01, 05:15 PM
What is a rock's range increment? Is it an improvised weapon?

Enguhl
2007-11-01, 05:16 PM
Marrash. They are fun because they turn people into more Marrash..es...

Fax Celestis
2007-11-01, 05:18 PM
What is a rock's range increment? Is it an improvised weapon?

The rock's range increments are delineated in each giant's Rock Throwing (Ex) ability.

Guy_Whozevl
2007-11-01, 05:21 PM
Arrowhawks have their ranged electricity touch. That kinda counts for something. The Solar works too, with its Slaying Arrows.

kjones
2007-11-01, 05:21 PM
How 'bout Drow? I suppose they don't exactly count as monsters, but they've got those sleep arrows that are always good for a larf... Easy to give them class levels, easy to make Drow societies.

Chronos
2007-11-01, 06:31 PM
Nobody's mentioned the Beholder yet? It's not a weapon, but those eye rays do use attack rolls.

AslanCross
2007-11-01, 09:11 PM
The Solar is probably the most powerful archer monster in core. It's got very high AB, a large-sized composite longbow (5), and slaying arrows.

Logic Cannon
2007-11-02, 01:56 AM
I'm personally surprised that fewer people give intelligent humanoids bows/crossbows, especially the cowardly ones like goblins that have poor Str scores but decent Dex scores, where using ranged attacks is more competitive in combat as well as better in character.

Doresain
2007-11-02, 02:19 AM
I'm personally surprised that fewer people give intelligent humanoids bows/crossbows, especially the cowardly ones like goblins that have poor Str scores but decent Dex scores, where using ranged attacks is more competitive in combat as well as better in character.

or kobolds for that matter

SpikeFightwicky
2007-11-02, 06:32 AM
I'm personally surprised that fewer people give intelligent humanoids bows/crossbows, especially the cowardly ones like goblins that have poor Str scores but decent Dex scores, where using ranged attacks is more competitive in combat as well as better in character.

Most humanoids already have ranged weapons in their stat blocks, including goblins and kobolds. The fact that they have a higher attack bonus with ranged kind of points them towards ranged combat.

Frosty
2007-11-02, 12:23 PM
Sometimes I wonder what'd be better and more interesting challenges at high levels: Enemy adventuring parties (mostly humanoids) with class levels or the standard monsters.

Fax Celestis
2007-11-02, 12:34 PM
Sometimes I wonder what'd be better and more interesting challenges at high levels: Enemy adventuring parties (mostly humanoids) with class levels or the standard monsters.

Honestly, a full 90% of my encounters are humanoids with class levels.

TheLogman
2007-11-02, 12:36 PM
Fax already mentioned it, but Arrow Demons are built around the bow. They all have a magical composite bow, carry Dr-piercing arrows, can fire 2 Composite Bows at a time, and are just altogether awesome. Drow and other elves with levels in Ranger fare well when it comes to Ranged Combat.

cupkeyk
2007-11-02, 12:40 PM
Oh and Thayvian golems

Frosty
2007-11-02, 12:43 PM
Which MM is Arrow Demon from?

Old_Man
2007-11-02, 12:50 PM
or kobolds for that matter

*Flashback* Oh, God... kobolds! Darts, arrows, spears, rocks, boiling oil, acid, flaming arrows, poisoned arrows, arrows covered in excrement. They shoot them from tunnels and from murder holes in the ceiling. They shoot them from around corners and from behind barricades. You chase after them, but they hide in their little tunnels where only the halfling can follow. But if you send the halfling in after them, he gets eaten, eaten like the pack mules, eaten like the retainers guarding the pack mules. The wizard is no use; he just fried the cleric with a badly placed fireball. The fighter is no use; he can barely move encumbered as he is. The thief... Where is the thief? Is he hiding or did he get picked off in the last chamber? Well, we're not going back to check. Not through that barrage again.

Fax Celestis
2007-11-02, 12:51 PM
Which MM is Arrow Demon from?

Actually, I think they're in the Fiend Folio. Could be wrong though.

cupkeyk
2007-11-02, 12:53 PM
mm3 page 34 actually for arrow demon

EDIT: OMG, I corrected Fax!

Laurellien
2007-11-02, 01:42 PM
Arrow Demon: MM3
Erinyes: MM
Harpy Archer: MM
Stone Giants (lobbing rocks)

To name a few.

Fax Celestis
2007-11-02, 01:46 PM
mm3 page 34 actually for arrow demon

EDIT: OMG, I corrected Fax!

Monster Manuals are (obviously) not my forte.

MariettaGecko
2007-11-02, 02:40 PM
*Flashback* Oh, God... kobolds! Darts, arrows, spears, rocks, boiling oil, acid, flaming arrows, poisoned arrows, arrows covered in excrement. They shoot them from tunnels and from murder holes in the ceiling. They shoot them from around corners and from behind barricades. You chase after them, but they hide in their little tunnels where only the halfling can follow. But if you send the halfling in after them, he gets eaten, eaten like the pack mules, eaten like the retainers guarding the pack mules. The wizard is no use; he just fried the cleric with a badly placed fireball. The fighter is no use; he can barely move encumbered as he is. The thief... Where is the thief? Is he hiding or did he get picked off in the last chamber? Well, we're not going back to check. Not through that barrage again.

Sounds like someone's been through Dragon Mountain back in 2e. And had an Excellent DM running it. I only wish I had been there for that one.

GoC
2007-11-02, 03:37 PM
Sounds like someone's been through Dragon Mountain back in 2e. And had an Excellent DM running it. I only wish I had been there for that one.

Actualy I think those are Tucker's Kobolds...