Breaking an Hexblade's blade?

[Unoriginal]

Alright, I was asked how one could defeat an Hexblade, and I started to wonder: while there are many ways to beat an Hexblade, if you know they're an Hexblade, can't you simply break their weapon?

A typical Hexblade/Bladelock's Pact Weapon is only magical for going past resistance/immunities, and even if they use a magic weapon, most magic items have resistance to all damages but are explicitly not indestructible unless they have the special feature which make them so. Using the DMG's rules, a Medium humanoid's weapon would have 10 HPs (or 3d6).


The section on Adamantine Weapons in the Xanathar's indicates that hitting an item with an adamantine weapon results in a crit so someone with an Adamantine Greataxe or Greatsword would be pretty likely to sunder the Hexblade's weapon in one successfully landed blow, and almost certain in two.

Assuming the Hexblade doesn't get a turn in-between them, it's also possible for one person to Disarm the Warlock and for a second one to cast Shatter on it (although this one wouldn't work if the Warlock was used a magic weapon).


Am I missing something here? And what do you think?

[LudicSavant]

Alright, I was asked how one could defeat an Hexblade, and I started to wonder: while there are many ways to beat an Hexblade, if you know they're an Hexblade, can't you simply break their weapon?

A typical Hexblade/Bladelock's Pact Weapon is only magical for going past resistance/immunities, and even if they use a magic weapon, most magic items have resistance to all damages but are explicitly not indestructible unless they have the special feature which make them so. Using the DMG's rules, a Medium humanoid's weapon would have 10 HPs (or 3d6).


The section on Adamantine Weapons in the Xanathar's indicates that hitting an item with an adamantine weapon results in a crit so someone with an Adamantine Greataxe or Greatsword would be pretty likely to sunder the Hexblade's weapon in one successfully landed blow, and almost certain in two.

Assuming the Hexblade doesn't get a turn in-between them, it's also possible for one person to Disarm the Warlock and for a second one to cast Shatter on it (although this one wouldn't work if the Warlock was used a magic weapon).

Am I missing something here? And what do you think?

It's a setback, because they can only bond 1 weapon at a time for Hex Warrior. But nothing's stopping them from just casting spells at you when you take their weapon away.

Also, if they have Pact of the Blade, they can just conjure a new Hex Warrior weapon as an Action.


If you later gain the Pact of the Blade feature, this benefit extends to every pact weapon you conjure with that feature, no matter the weapon's type.

More likely, the weapon-sunderers are just putting themselves at an action economy disadvantage and handing the Hexblade the win.

[Valmark]

You can indeed- all you're doing is wasting the Hexblade's action (maybe).

Unless they made a pact with a magic weapon, a warlock with Pact of the Blade can just conjure the weapon again next turn. Depending on the situation, that could be useful- just not a lasting solution.

That is, assuming the Hexblade in question doesn't just Eldritch Blast instead of waisting their action re-conjuring their weapon. Plus, this won't work on a Chain or Tome Warlock. At least, not as well.

EDIT: Forgot an Hexblade has their own weapon feature. Honestly, the reply's the same- if they aren't a Blade they'll use Eldritch Blast, if they are they might resummon it.

[cutlery]

Misty step away and start lobbing eldritch blasts.

Average damage will probably increase, unless the target can gain some cover.

[nickl_2000]

Alright, I was asked how one could defeat an Hexblade, and I started to wonder: while there are many ways to beat an Hexblade, if you know they're an Hexblade, can't you simply break their weapon?

A typical Hexblade/Bladelock's Pact Weapon is only magical for going past resistance/immunities, and even if they use a magic weapon, most magic items have resistance to all damages but are explicitly not indestructible unless they have the special feature which make them so. Using the DMG's rules, a Medium humanoid's weapon would have 10 HPs (or 3d6).


The section on Adamantine Weapons in the Xanathar's indicates that hitting an item with an adamantine weapon results in a crit so someone with an Adamantine Greataxe or Greatsword would be pretty likely to sunder the Hexblade's weapon in one successfully landed blow, and almost certain in two.

Assuming the Hexblade doesn't get a turn in-between them, it's also possible for one person to Disarm the Warlock and for a second one to cast Shatter on it (although this one wouldn't work if the Warlock was used a magic weapon).


Am I missing something here? And what do you think?

Wouldn't it be easier to disarm the hexblade and the second person just take the weapon and run instead of shatter? The disarmed person doesn't have a weapon to threaten for an AoO (and even if they were allowed to punch, that is likely 2 damage if they hit).

[cutlery]

Wouldn't it be easier to disarm the hexblade and the second person just take the weapon and run instead of shatter? The disarmed person doesn't have a weapon to threaten for an AoO (and even if they were allowed to punch, that is likely 2 damage if they hit).

That would be a bad time to discover it was a pact of the blade hexblade warlock; they can call a new weapon (or recall a bonded one) as an action.

Further, disarming attempts have disadvantage if a weapon is being held in two hands. It will cost them an action, potentially, at least, but knocking them prone (no disadvantage) and beating the crap out of them seems a more efficient use of time.

[Unoriginal]

That would be a bad time to discover it was a pact of the blade hexblade warlock; they can call a new weapon (or recall a bonded one) as an action.

Further, disarming attempts have disadvantage if a weapon is being held in two hands. It will cost them an action, potentially, at least, but knocking them prone (no disadvantage) and beating the crap out of them seems a more efficient use of time.

It's true that would be more efficient, especially if we're talking about a group vs a warlock.

[Mikal]

I don’t get why all the work to “beat a Hexblade”

Beat em the same way you’d beat anyone. Drop their hp to 0 before they do the same to yours...

Why break their weapon? Why try and disarm them? They still have (and are likely doing more damage with) eldritch blast.

Breaking their weapon doesn’t break their bond to their patron, if that’s the thought process.

[Contrast]

I would tend to assume if their pact weapon is their actual patron then it will likely be a sufficiently powerful artifact so as to resist simple sundering.

As others have already discussed, if your intent is to simply deprive them of a weapon then the tactic will be less effectively than doing the same to any martials weapon because after you've taken their weapon, they're still a powerful magic user and there's a good chance they can just teleport it back/assign a new pact weapon.

So in short, unless additional shenanigans are underway supported by the DM then not a particularly effective way to deal with a hexblade RAW.

[nickl_2000]

I don’t get why all the work to “beat a Hexblade”

Beat em the same way you’d beat anyone. Drop their hp to 0 before they do the same to yours...

Why break their weapon? Why try and disarm them? They still have (and are likely doing more damage with) eldritch blast.

Breaking their weapon doesn’t break their bond to their patron, if that’s the thought process.

I see this as more effective against the Hexblade 1 dip personally than a full classed hexblade. Someone drops 1 level into hexblade, then they haven't focused on strength or dex to be able to hit as well and they are severely nerfed.

[Valmark]

It's true that would be more efficient, especially if we're talking about a group vs a warlock.

Honestly, if you're talking about a group vs a warlock the group doesn't need that much of a strategy unless there is an enormous difference in level.

[Unoriginal]

I don’t get why all the work to “beat a Hexblade”

Beat em the same way you’d beat anyone. Drop their hp to 0 before they do the same to yours...

Yes, that why I said there are many ways to beat an Hexblade in the OP.



Why break their weapon? Why try and disarm them? They still have (and are likely doing more damage with) eldritch blast.

Well first of all, breaking someone's weapon is awesome and cinematic as hell. Second, it was more of a "would that be an efficient way to weaken them?" kind of questions, same way that taking away a caster's focus and component pouch does limit what they can do, and how taking away a wiazrd's spellbook is pretty harsh even if not immediately weakening for them (at it just prevents them from changing their spell selection). Or if you manage to make the Barbarian unable to rage they're way less of an issue.


I would tend to assume if their pact weapon is their actual patron then it will likely be a sufficiently powerful artifact so as to resist simple sundering.

Well the Hexblade's weapon is supposedly a non-magical projection from the Patron. Not an artifact-grade item by itself.



As others have already discussed, if your intent is to simply deprive them of a weapon then the tactic will be less effectively than doing the same to any martials weapon because after you've taken their weapon, they're still a powerful magic user and there's a good chance they can just teleport it back/assign a new pact weapon.

Indeed. That tactic would work way better with practically all weapon users except an Hexblade or Bladelock.



So in short, unless additional shenanigans are underway supported by the DM then not a particularly effective way to deal with a hexblade RAW.

Indeed.


I see this as more effective against the Hexblade 1 dip personally than a full classed hexblade. Someone drops 1 level into hexblade, then they haven't focused on strength or dex to be able to hit as well and they are severely nerfed.

That is also a good point. Without the Pact of the Blade the Hexblade can't just recreate their weapon in an action IIRC.


Honestly, if you're talking about a group vs a warlock the group doesn't need that much of a strategy unless there is an enormous difference in level.

Well yeah, that's what tends to happen when the PCs are fighting a Warlock NPC as a boss (like the Volo's Warlock of the Fiend, which isn't a direct copy-paste of the class but still similar).

Or if a bunch of NPC mooks are fighting a decently-leveled Hexblade PC.

[cutlery]

The fact remains this is less effective than disarming nearly any other martial, as warlocks have pretty good spells to fall back on.

Also, that would be a bad time to discover the warlock has a 3 level eldritch knight dip.

[Unoriginal]

The fact remains this is less effective than disarming nearly any other martial, as warlocks have pretty good spells to fall back on.

I haven't disputed that fact.

Only time such a tactic would be worthwhile against a Bladelock would be if they're wielding a magic weapon which is scarier than the Warlock by itself.

*cough*Like Fjord in Critical Role*cough*.

[zinycor]

Alright, I was asked how one could defeat an Hexblade, and I started to wonder: while there are many ways to beat an Hexblade, if you know they're an Hexblade, can't you simply break their weapon?

A typical Hexblade/Bladelock's Pact Weapon is only magical for going past resistance/immunities, and even if they use a magic weapon, most magic items have resistance to all damages but are explicitly not indestructible unless they have the special feature which make them so. Using the DMG's rules, a Medium humanoid's weapon would have 10 HPs (or 3d6).


The section on Adamantine Weapons in the Xanathar's indicates that hitting an item with an adamantine weapon results in a crit so someone with an Adamantine Greataxe or Greatsword would be pretty likely to sunder the Hexblade's weapon in one successfully landed blow, and almost certain in two.

Assuming the Hexblade doesn't get a turn in-between them, it's also possible for one person to Disarm the Warlock and for a second one to cast Shatter on it (although this one wouldn't work if the Warlock was used a magic weapon).


Am I missing something here? And what do you think?

Sure, personally, rather than breaking it I would use heat metal on the weapon so they would take damage, eventually having to drop it ( Or taking it into their weird space thing)

And ofc, blindness spell is alwats a good counter.

EDIT: Am confused on why bother with doing that though... it would always be more efffective to either kill the warlock or dealing with their connectio to their patron if you want to go more narrative.

[Mikal]

I see this as more effective against the Hexblade 1 dip personally than a full classed hexblade. Someone drops 1 level into hexblade, then they haven't focused on strength or dex to be able to hit as well and they are severely nerfed.

See, I have to disagree, for one simple fact: Anyone dipping Warlock will very likely be taking Eldritch Blast. They're going to be dangerous even without their weapon, perhaps even more, unless they're building some sort of GWM -5/+10 type.

Do you deprive them of an avenue of attack? Sure. Does that make it more effective even against those who dip? I guess, but it's like breaking an ankle vs. breaking a leg. One is less worse than the other, but you're still not winning many races.


Well first of all, breaking someone's weapon is awesome and cinematic as hell. Second, it was more of a "would that be an efficient way to weaken them?" kind of questions, same way that taking away a caster's focus and component pouch does limit what they can do, and how taking away a wiazrd's spellbook is pretty harsh even if not immediately weakening for them (at it just prevents them from changing their spell selection). Or if you manage to make the Barbarian unable to rage they're way less of an issue.


Cinematic =/= effective. I mean you can be cinematic a bunch of ways. Doesn't mean you're doing anything useful by doing so, or your actions could be put to better use doing the "boring but effective" thing.

Also, taking away a casters component bag and focus isn't the same as a hexblade's weapon. Hexblade's can function just fine without a weapon, and many players probably don't even USE a weapon if they're playing a hexblade. Despite the name, the weapon is completely optional. If you took away my hexblade's physical weapon from a fight, for example, you're still eating my eldritch blasts which can push you, pull you, and slow you down while doing more damage than my weapon did. And I can do it from further away.

My two cents anyway.

[Unoriginal]

Cinematic =/= effective. I mean you can be cinematic a bunch of ways. Doesn't mean you're doing anything useful by doing so, or your actions could be put to better use doing the "boring but effective" thing.

It's also possible to do cinematic and effective. This is just not an example of that.



Also, taking away a casters component bag and focus isn't the same as a hexblade's weapon. Hexblade's can function just fine without a weapon, and many players probably don't even USE a weapon if they're playing a hexblade. Despite the name, the weapon is completely optional. If you took away my hexblade's physical weapon from a fight, for example, you're still eating my eldritch blasts which can push you, pull you, and slow you down while doing more damage than my weapon did. And I can do it from further away.

I wasn't advocating to do it, I was wondering if it was a good idea that would help, and people explained why it wouldn't.

[Mikal]

It's also possible to do cinematic and effective. This is just not an example of that.
I... never said otherwise?
Not sure what the point here was supposed to be. I'm just pointing out that cinematic isn't the same as effective. Your OP was

[quote]while there are many ways to beat an Hexblade, if you know they're an Hexblade, can't you simply break their weapon?

To which the answer has been shown was a resounding "no". As i stated they still have Eldritch blast, where you went off on the cinematic bit, which honestly, doesn't really matter with relation to your original post.


I wasn't advocating to do it, I was wondering if it was a good idea that would help, and people explained why it wouldn't.
Fair enough.

Sounds to me like the question has been sufficiently answered then?

[Unoriginal]

Not sure what the point here was supposed to be. I'm just pointing out that cinematic isn't the same as effective. Your OP was



To which the answer has been shown was a resounding "no". As i stated they still have Eldritch blast, where you went off on the cinematic bit, which honestly, doesn't really matter with relation to your original post.

Well if you recall my "it's cinematic" response was on your question as to why someone would try to do it, and was trying to say that I thought the idea sounded cool and wanted to see if it was effective as well. As you and others have pointed out, it isn't.

I apologize for not managing to explain myself in a comprehensible way.



Sounds to me like the question has been sufficiently answered then?

It was indeed.

Thanks everyone, it was pretty helpful.

[Mikal]

Well if you recall my "it's cinematic" response was on your question as to why someone would try to do it, and was trying to say that I thought the idea sounded cool and wanted to see if it was effective as well. As you and others have pointed out, it isn't.

I apologize for not managing to explain myself in a comprehensible way.



It was indeed.

Thanks everyone, it was pretty helpful.

No worries. Sorry for confusing your reply as if it were meant to be an answer about it being a good tactic.