Stop Speculating!

[Eladrinstar]

When people start coming up with a vast amount of guesses as to what will occur, it makes the Giant want to do something different. So stop it. You may very well be delaying the awesomeness that is strip 500.

[kpenguin]

When people start coming up with a vast amount of guesses as to what will occur, it makes the Giant want to do something different. So stop it. You may very well be delaying the awesomeness that is strip 500.

Actually... no.

For instance, I a lot of people speculated on a third Greenhilt child. That prediction came true.

[Eladrinstar]

Actually... no.

For instance, I a lot of people speculated on a third Greenhilt child. That prediction came true.

Yes, but he feels the need to change the strip when people get close to what he has written, to throw them off. He has said it himself.

[HomerHT]

In addition, speculation is supposed to be put in Spoiler brackets specifically so the Giant doesn't do that.

[Migodnar]

Actually... no.

For instance, I a lot of people speculated on a third Greenhilt child. That prediction came true.

Yeah, that's true.
If we don't especulate there is not much to do here...

[Chrismith]

Yes, but he feels the need to change the strip when people get close to what he has written, to throw them off. He has said it himself.

He has also said that he doesn't read threads of a speculatory nature for that very reason.

[Porthos]

When people start coming up with a vast amount of guesses as to what will occur, it makes the Giant want to do something different. So stop it. You may very well be delaying the awesomeness that is strip 500.

Really? You honestly believe that Rich changes the storyline because someone might guess it ahead of time?

I'll save the snarky responses and just say that I think you are putting a little too much power in the hands of the fans here. :smallwink:

[Alfryd]

Stop Speculating!
Ummm.... No?

Really? You honestly believe that Rich changes the storyline because someone might guess it ahead of time?
Our approval fills him with shame.

[Spiryt]

Really? You honestly believe that Rich changes the storyline because someone might guess it ahead of time?

I'll save the snarky responses and just say that I think you are putting a little too much power in the hands of the fans here. :smallwink:

Yeah, just imagine Giant lurking trough all this threads, and using "Erase" in his ilustrator again and again, just beacuse "damn, this bugger guessed it too". :smallwink:

[dragon_masterd]

When people start coming up with a vast amount of guesses as to what will occur, it makes the Giant want to do something different. So stop it. You may very well be delaying the awesomeness that is strip 500.

Umm....Speak for your self, but I think that the Giant is probably a bit smarter than that.

[Aquillion]

I think that Belkar is secretly a robot.

[Spiryt]

I think that Belkar is secretly a robot.

No way, he's the last dinosaur.

[evileeyore]

When people start coming up with a vast amount of guesses as to what will occur, it makes the Giant want to do something different. So stop it. You may very well be delaying the awesomeness that is strip 500.I'm gonna go out on a limb and speculate that...

... this thread will get you nowhere.

;)

[Constantinople]

When people start coming up with a vast amount of guesses as to what will occur, it makes the Giant want to do something different. So stop it. You may very well be delaying the awesomeness that is strip 500.

So, what you're saying is that we can change the storyline by posting about the opposite of what we want to happen, thus confusing The Giant as too what we want and what we're guessing?

If so:

I don't want to find out V's gender.
I don't want Miko to appear again, either resurrected or in an afterlife.
I don't want to find out the Mysterious Voice Bad Guy That's Allied With The Azure City Noble Bad Guy.

:smallbiggrin:

[Antamar]

No way, he's the last dinosaur.

No your, both wrong, he's Manbearpig!

[Studoku]

So, what you're saying is that we can change the storyline by posting about the opposite of what we want to happen, thus confusing The Giant as too what we want and what we're guessing?

If so:

I don't want to find out V's gender.
I don't want Miko to appear again, either resurrected or in an afterlife.
I don't want to find out the Mysterious Voice Bad Guy That's Allied With The Azure City Noble Bad Guy.

:smallbiggrin:

Nice idea. If it is true...

I don't want to see Haley topless.:smallbiggrin:

[Migodnar]

Nice idea. If it is true...

I don't want to see Haley topless.:smallbiggrin:

Me neither! That would be WAY to bad, I might throw up!

[Chronos]

Really? You honestly believe that Rich changes the storyline because someone might guess it ahead of time?With good reason. Quoth the Giant in the Playground himself (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6468),
I have discussed on numerous occassions how predicting what is going to happen ruins the strip for others, and how it makes it more likely that I will feel the need to rewrite the strip in order to keep it surprising and entertaining. Which means delays as I try to figure out what will happen next, since my best ideas have already been discussed to death on the message board. Constant speculation will result in a worse comic for everyone. Stop it.Now, maybe some of us wouldn't mind people guessing what we're going to do in our art, but that's irrelevant. The Giant doesn't like seeing people guess what he's going to do, and it's his comic we're all gathered here to enjoy, so we play by his rules. He specifically avoids reading threads or spoiler boxes marked "speculation" or "prediction" or the like, for this reason, but please, don't put your speculations out in the open.

[Alfryd]

With good reason. Quoth the Giant in the Playground himself,
I was looking for that. Couldn't get Search to behave itself, though.

Of course, I never really understood the specific need for this kind of precaution. If people don't want to see predictions about the future direction for the strip, who's forcing them to read the threads in question? (It's also a bit paranoid to call them 'spoilers' when, 9 times in 10, they'll turn out to be nothing of the sort. If you toss out enough random predictions, staistically speaking a couple will manage to be correct. That doesn't mean privileged information is being dispensed.)

But, that's a dead horse long buried.

[Wanderlust]

While I'm sure Rich doesn't read these things anymore, I also recall him stating that he has changed the outcome of various story points in the past because of people posting the same ideas on the forums. It may sound lame to some people, but I can sympathize with not wanting to have someone guess correctly, post it on the boards, and then gloat about how they were right. It would take away some of the originality of it for me.

[geekyhedgehog]

Yeah, but all sorts of people were speculating that 3 1/2 months was because of Roy losing track of time, and that came true after all.

[The Extinguisher]

The most Rich is going to change is little jokes (like the whole arrow thing) I don't he's going to redo his entire plot because someone guessed it.

We don't have much to do besides speculate. Besides, it's not hurting it any.
He said he's more inclined to, not that we would.

Besides, if he didn't want us doing it, he'd ban it outwright.

[Studoku]

Yeah, but all sorts of people were speculating that 3 1/2 months was because of Roy losing track of time, and that came true after all.

Just as many people were spectulating that time flowed faster in celestia because of some wierd sci-fi mama-jama and that didn't come true.

[Icewalker]

Huh, never seen that quote before. Good to know more accurately what he thinks.


I think this time we have a bit of an excuse. It is strip 500 after all, and he just put up what is probably the biggest and least predictable cliffhanger in OOTS

[Ghastly Epigram]

Yeah, but all sorts of people were speculating that 3 1/2 months was because of Roy losing track of time, and that came true after all.

Right, but there were really only a few possible solutions to the 3 1/2 months thing. It was virtually impossible for people NOT to guess it (And lots of other people got it wrong as well, more so I would say). In my mind, that sort of thing is a bit different from speculating, say;

That Haley will be captured by Team Evil and is forced to give away vital information.

(I don't particularly think that will happen, it was just an example)

Besides, perhaps that's a credit to the fans for not blurting it out in non-speculation threads. :smallwink:

Anyways, ultimately the giant's say goes (and I can sympathize with his stance on this. I imagine it must be very frustrating to have the "next big plot twist" (or even worse, the entire layout of a story arc) figured out the second it becomes even slightly plausible), and lets face it, it's really not such an unreasonable request to mark speculation threads as such (Or put it in spoilers if you really have an urge to post it elsewhere). And for the most part (At least as far as I've noticed), people here tend to adhere to this pretty well these days, so the OP's point is somewhat moot.

And this entire post is getting somewhat convoluted, so I'll just stop there. Can't wait for 500! :smallamused:

[DreadSpoon]

Read the foreward to Dungeon Crawlin' Fools. Rich specifically states that much of popularity of OOTS (or, at least, much of the measure of its popularity) lies in the vibrant forum community that is constantly worried about and guessing at what might happen in future comics.

I don't care all that much for speculation, but it's part of what makes the community go.

[NikkTheTrick]

Hmm... By now we have speculated so muchon outcomes of strip 500 that at least someone's speculation has to come true. So, my guess would be that speculation does not matter anyway. There are always opposing "schools of outcomes", so speculations won't spoil the outcome since no one is certain about the leading speculation since there is none until proven by the comic.

[thubby]

No, its fun and interesting.
the giant is going to change his comic no matter what we do, its not like he has it all written out. so might as well have fun.

[MCerberus]

The Chimera is going to be resurrected along with Roy and will eventually kill an OotS member. Also it might be a vampire now.

:elan: dun dun DUN

[Edea]

Question:


Did Girard die at some point in another book? I know Soon, Dorukan, Lirian, and Kraagor bit the dust, and I'm guessing since Xykon has Selini's diary she's probably croaked, but I missed where Girard died ?_? . Unless of course it was just old age, but (assumed) epic level characters might have a way of getting around that.

[Chronos]

Did Girard die at some point in another book? I know Soon, Dorukan, Lirian, and Kraagor bit the dust, and I'm guessing since Xykon has Selini's diary she's probably croaked, but I missed where Girard died ?_? . Unless of course it was just old age, but (assumed) epic level characters might have a way of getting around that.We do not know Girard's (or, for that matter, Serini's) fate, and both might still be alive. Even without Extended Lifespan (the way epic characters have around dying of old age), Dorukan's also human, and he was still alive (though very old) as of last year. Soon has been dead of old age for a while now, but he was also considerably older than the other human members of the Scribble. And halflings live longer than humans, so it's also quite plausible that Serini's still around somewhere.

[Holammer]

Imho, OOTS storytelling lends itself to speculation something fierce. Because it follows a clear rule set many understand, levels, races, alignments and classes. There is a plethora of visual and dialogue clues that simply moan "speeeculate" in an irresistible sirens voice.
It's too bad Rich himself isn't very fond of speculation himself and I understand him. [spoilers] tags should be handed out in liberal measure.

[Chronos]

Imho, OOTS storytelling lends itself to speculation something fierce.Also because it's being told in an episodic manner, as a webcomic. In an ordinary novel, if you set up something on page 100 that's resolved on page 600, a reader might have a few hours or days to think through the implications. But in a comic, there might be years between something's setup and its resolution. And in a webcomic in particular, there's a ready-made community of folks to discuss it, so soon, anything that's been figured out by one person is known to everyone who's interested.

[MCerberus]

Nerds + beloved characters + time = speculation


This situation has two of those in spades with a little of number 3 sprinkled in. Oh and be proud of your nerdness.

[dragongirl13]

Listen, if you post it, that doesn't strictly mean that the Giant will change his plans. OotS has a plot. If you guess what will happen next in the plot, he will not change it if it is vital to the plot. However, if it is not vital to the plot, he may change it.

[MCerberus]

or maybe
Roy looks down to find the OotS with a new leader fighting Xykon. This new leader yells "FREEDOM" and we see Latte kill Redcloak.

[Felixaar]

I think that Belkar is secretly a robot.


No way, he's the last dinosaur.

What are y'all, blind? Hes the last robotic dinosaur.

Also, as a writer myself I doubt Rich would change the plot just because someone guessed it. With all his fans he wouldnt have many options that dont involve robotic dinosaurs, and now I've already guessed that!

[Chronos]

What are y'all, blind? Hes the last robotic dinosaur.Or maybe a mummified firebreathing mutant vampire zombie alien robot dinosaur. That was my Halloween costume three years ago.

[Alfryd]

...the giant is going to change his comic no matter what we do, its not like he has it all written out.
Actually, that's pretty well exactly he's done, as far as the broad outline of the plot is concerned at least. According to Rich, the main reason why he doesn't script out entire strips well in advance is apparently because the impulse to go back and rework a given strip to death is difficult for him to resist. (Also, he's apparently been tempted to alter the story in order to defy fan expectations on a few occasions, but has thus far refrained from doing so.)

[Nerd-o-rama]

No.

White text.

[Holammer]

Actually, that's pretty well exactly he's done, as far as the broad outline of the plot is concerned at least. According to Rich, the main reason why he doesn't script out entire strips well in advance is apparently because the impulse to go back and rework a given strip to death is difficult for him to resist. (Also, he's apparently been tempted to alter the story in order to defy fan expectations on a few occasions, but has thus far refrained from doing so.)

Yep, I read that part myself, but perhaps Rich should mentally compare the speculation fans with the Infinite monkey theorem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem). Given enough time and enough fans, one of them should be able to accurately predict a plot twist.

[Fussy]

If we don't speculate, all that happens is 3 times a week there's a 'new comic is up' thread. WOW fun

[Blayze]

Stop Speculating!

Short answer: No.
Long answer: No.

[MCerberus]

Hmm all but my last speculation seem to still be within the realm of possibility.

[dragonseth]

Hmm all but my last speculation seem to still be within the realm of possibility.

The realm of possibility is VERY large. And it can even be changed if we find out that something that happened didn't really happen and the characters just thought it happened. Happen.

[MCerberus]

The realm of possibility is VERY large. And it can even be changed if we find out that something that happened didn't really happen and the characters just thought it happened. Happen.

So Latte can still be the savior of the world?

[dragonseth]

So Latte can still be the savior of the world?

Of course!

[AKA_Bait]

When people start coming up with a vast amount of guesses as to what will occur, it makes the Giant want to do something different. So stop it. You may very well be delaying the awesomeness that is strip 500.

To echo many others: No. Furthermore, I do not think it's your place, or the place of anyone other than a Mod to ask people to.

The Giant has requested that we refrain from posting speculation outside of spoiler marked threads and below spoiler tags. Not everyone has done so but the majority of posters seem to have complied. If Rich finds that the remaining folks who don't post below the tags are still a problem for him then he should do what he said in the thread linked above and add speculation to the list of topics not to be discussed on these forums. That thread was from over two years ago and I am not aware of any subsequent one raising the same problem in which the Giant has participated.

If Burlew were to post again requesting that we stop I would be the fist one on your side. I find these boards to be a wonderful place for discussion of OotS as well as many other topics and whatever restrictons The Giant needs to help him with his art I would happily comply with. Until he does, we shouldn't presume to speak for him.

[SteveMB]

Imho, OOTS storytelling lends itself to speculation something fierce. Because it follows a clear rule set many understand, levels, races, alignments and classes. There is a plethora of visual and dialogue clues that simply moan "speeeculate" in an irresistible sirens voice.

I don't know that the "clear rule set" is relevant. There's at least as much speculation over on the Erfworld forum, where the rules of the universe are only known (to the readers) to the extent that they've been shown in the story to date.

I think Chronos is more on target about speculation being a natural result of presenting a long interconnected story one piece at a time.

[fwiffo]

The whole "if you predict things that will happen and you are right, then Giant will change it" principle is silly. If you are a writer and nobody can predict where the story is going, then you are not doing things right. A good story should be able to be predicted. There are patterns and events flowing from each other, and leading in a particular direction. There is foreshadowing, there are characters who act according to their character traits, there are events developing according to the rules you set up. If your readers can't see those patterns or see them going somewhere where you are not going, then you have not constructed your story properly. Sure, you can spring a new story element now and then, but you can't do it to the point where they are completely random.

A rather famous plot-writing rule attributed to Anton Chekhov says roughly "if you show a gun mounted on wall in Act 1, someone better fire it by act 3". Well, the corollary is that you need someone to fire gun in act 3, then you better show it hanging on the wall in Act 1. You can't just pull it out of thin air, without setting it up, or you end up with Deus Ex plotting. You may not need to put a huge "future plot device" sign next to that gun (or that gender changing belt), but it has to be there - and that means someone will see it and figure out what you mean to use it for.

And, that is a good thing