Epic feats in non-epic feat slots

[Melcar]

Hellow fellow scriberinos...

Is there a specific rule, that would prohibit against using a lower level feat slot to hold a higher level feat, specifically epic feats, if Psychic Reformation was used to change the feat in question? Like, if you honored the prerequisite, could say a level 21+ change all of his lower level feats into epic feats by use of Physic Reformation?

I can't find a hard rule that prohibits this...

Thanks in advance!

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

No. You need to meet a feat's prerequisites at the level you gained it, even with Psychic Reformation. Unless you qualified for your epic feats prior to reaching epic levels, they're not valid feat choices for those feat slots.

[Thurbane]

I believe true dragons have an exception to this rule, but otherwise, no. Not that I am aware of.

I mean, some people argue that if a bonus feat doesn't say you need to meet the reqs, then you can ignore all reqs (including being epic), but that is very shaky ground, and has been debated to death ever since the dawn of 3E.

[Doctor Despair]

By RAW, old Dragonwrought Kobolds are eligible for epic feats pre-epic, and Martial Monks can arguably select epic fighter feats with their bonus feats pre-epic. Apart from that, I'm unaware of means to get early access to epic feats. Maybe find an epic Heartfire Fanner with an epic feat you otherwise meet the prerequisites for?

[Iamyourking]

Yes, True Dragons of the Old age category can take Epic Feats despite the fact that Golds are the only one that are actually Epic Encounters by that age.

[Vaern]

By RAW, old Dragonwrought Kobolds are eligible for epic feats pre-epic, and Martial Monks can arguably select epic fighter feats with their bonus feats pre-epic. Apart from that, I'm unaware of means to get early access to epic feats. Maybe find an epic Heartfire Fanner with an epic feat you otherwise meet the prerequisites for?
The RAW legality of Dragonwrought Kobolds is still debatable. The Dragonomicon, in its introduction, says that the term "dragon" encompasses a large number of creatures, but the book and rules therein are, for the most part, concerned only with true dragons. In order to be considered a true dragon a creature would have to advance through age categories, but dragonwrought kobolds, despite having a table of dragon age categories and when they would be considered to be a part of that age category, do not advance through them. They advance through character levels, and therefore do not qualify for the dragon exception.
Or not. That's just the most convincing argument against kobolds qualifying as epic that I've seen.

[Doctor Despair]

The RAW legality of Dragonwrought Kobolds is still debatable. The Dragonomicon, in its introduction, says that the term "dragon" encompasses a large number of creatures, but the book and rules therein are, for the most part, concerned only with true dragons. In order to be considered a true dragon a creature would have to advance through age categories, but dragonwrought kobolds, despite having a table of dragon age categories and when they would be considered to be a part of that age category, do not advance through them. They advance through character levels, and therefore do not qualify for the dragon exception.
Or not. That's just the most convincing argument against kobolds qualifying as epic that I've seen.

As I recall, that is the argument against Dragonwrought Kobolds qualifying as true dragons for archetypes or something similar. The argument for them to qualify for epic feats is actually a lot stronger.

From the Draconomicon, page 66:


These feats are available to characters of 21st level or higher. Dragons of at least old age also can choose these feats even if they have no class levels.

[Melcar]

No. You need to meet a feat's prerequisites at the level you gained it, even with Psychic Reformation.

Where does it specifically say that? The reason I'm asking is because as far as I can tell, there is nothing stopping me from using Psychic Reformation to place Leadership in my level 3 feat slot, if I'm above level 6, and thus meating all of Leaderships prerequisites. I simply took the thought to its logical conclusion, and asked about epic feats, but the question remains, because unless there is some hard rule prohibiting this, I cant see why not... PHB does not make that distiction! Even though PHB2's feat retraining rule does make that disctiction, thats a specific rule for feat retraining only, and not a general rule, to be applied for Psychic Reformation as well. Why, well the way I see it, PHB does not say that you "have to meet a feats prerequisites at the level you gained it" only that you have to meet them... only PHB2's retraining rules say that. Ergo, Psychic Reformation, which is not the same rule as the retraining rule from PHB2, thus does not include the same rule.

Insidentilly neither does the ELH. So, where does it specifically say, that a non-epic feat slot cannot hold an epic feat, if you meet all the prerequisite for the epic feat (being level 21+, etc.)


By RAW, old Dragonwrought Kobolds are eligible for epic feats pre-epic, and Martial Monks can arguably select epic fighter feats with their bonus feats pre-epic. Apart from that, I'm unaware of means to get early access to epic feats. Maybe find an epic Heartfire Fanner with an epic feat you otherwise meet the prerequisites for?

I was not talking about gaining early access to epic feats, but whether or not I can use feat slots from level 1 through 18 to hold epic feats once I have gotting access to them and meat all the requirements. Again not gaining access pre epic but using pre epic feats slots to hold epic feats post epic.

[Doctor Despair]

I was not talking about gaining early access to epic feats, but whether or not I can use feat slots from level 1 through 18 to hold epic feats once I have gotting access to them and meat all the requirements. Again not gaining access pre epic but using pre epic feats slots to hold epic feats post epic.

If you can select epic feats pre-epic, then they are valid choices at pre-epic levels, so as long as you meet the other prereqs, you can Reform into them

[Melcar]

If you can select epic feats pre-epic, then they are valid choices at pre-epic levels, so as long as you meet the other prereqs, you can Reform into them

What about at post-epic level?

[ixrisor]

What about at post-epic level?

You have qualified for the feat when you took it. If you want to put a feat into an 18th level slot, you need to have qualified for it when you were level 18. Therefore, you can only put an epic feat in that slot if you have the ability to take epic feats before you are level 21.

[Melcar]

You have qualified for the feat when you took it. If you want to put a feat into an 18th level slot, you need to have qualified for it when you were level 18. Therefore, you can only put an epic feat in that slot if you have the ability to take epic feats before you are level 21.

Where does its specifically say that tho? I can't find it anywhere except for the retraining rule in PHB2, which since it only appears there, must be a specific to that retraining rule! You might infer that its supposed to be a general rule, but its only ever mentioned there, so it can't be. Is there a specific reference/quote/citation where it literally says that if you want to put a feat into an 18th level slot, you need to have qualified for it when you were level 18? Or at any other level for that matter?

I would argue, that if you have 4 levels of fighter, you can with the help of Psychic Reformation place Weapon Specialization in any of your feat slots so long as you still honor the prerequisites! The feat only has: Proficiency with selected weapon, Weapon Focus with selected weapon, fighter level 4th as prerequisites. So assuming I'm a human level 4 fighter, 25 Psion, and I now want to rearrange my feats, and I make sure to still honor the requirements (Proficiency with selected weapon, Weapon Focus with selected weapon, fighter level 4th). Why should I not be able to use any of the number of feats I have to hold weapon specialization?

Feats don't have levels associated with them. You don't get access to two level 1 feats, one level 3 feat, one level 6 feat etc, you gain access to a number of feats. The feat don't care when you got it, its a pool of feats. The only requirement is the ones being mentioned under the feat description itself. In the case of Weapon Specialization its: Proficiency with selected weapon, Weapon Focus with selected weapon, fighter level 4th. All that my level 4 fighter, 25 Psion meets at the time when casting Psychic Reformation and he has a total number of 10 feats. I would argue - since I haven't been able to find any rule prohibiting this, and people here haven't been able to reference any rule prohibiting this - that I can use any of my 10 feats for Weapon Specialization!

Why, well because feats do not have a level associated with it. You just gain access to a number of feats, not two level 1 feats, one level 3 feat so on and so forth...

[TheStranger]

The distinction is that you’re not just reselecting feats at your current level. You’re undoing and remaking your fear choices over the past X levels, so each choice needs to have been a choice you could have made at that level.

Edit: I had originally quoted some language to support that but I accidentally looked at the Pathfinder SRD. I blame my small phone screen. The 3.5 SRD doesn’t have the same language but I do think it strongly implies that you’re undoing and redoing level up choices, not just selecting X feats that you now qualify for.

[Melcar]

It’s in the SRD description of Psychic Reformation. “Any change made must have been available at the level selected.”

The distinction is that you’re not just reselecting feats at your current level. You’re undoing and remaking your fear choices over the past X levels, so each choice needs to have been a choice you could have made at that level.

Edit: I had originally quoted some language to support that but I accidentally looked at the Pathfinder SRD. I blame my small phone screen. The 3.5 SRD doesn’t have the same language but I do think it strongly implies that you’re undoing and redoing level up choices, not just selecting X feats that you now qualify for.

It does not say that for D&D 3.5. If I have have been unclear as to whether this question was referring to D&D or PF I do apologize!

The question is reffering to D&D 3.5!

In 3.5 it only says that: "The subject must abide by the standard rules for selecting skills and feats, and so it cannot take feats for which it doesn’t qualify [...]" In my case above, I did qualify for weapon specialization at level 29 (4 figther, 25 Psion). Again I have yet to find any hard evidence for not - by RAW - allowing placing feats as one see fit, provided that all prerequisited are met, when specifically using Psychic Reformation!

EDIT: No worries, I was afraid I might have been very unclear and that we were argueing two different set of rules. Again you are right in as much as RAI might be that way, but I think by RAW its indeed possible to use any feat for a feat you qualify for, because there is no slot or level assiciated with each feat - only prerequisites...

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Let's say you're creating a new character at 21st level. You're making an epic level character, but you can't spend all your pre-epic feat slots on epic feats. This is the standard rules for selecting feats. Those same standard rules apply to Psychic Reformation:

"A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite. (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#prerequisites)"

[ciopo]

Let's say you're creating a new character at 21st level. You're making an epic level character, but you can't spend all your pre-epic feat slots on epic feats. This is the standard rules for selecting feats. Those same standard rules apply to Psychic Reformation:

"A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite. (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#prerequisites)"
"starting" at level 21 is not the same as using psychic reformation tho, because you would be simulating the level ups when you "start" at level 21.

the wording of
"The subject can undo decisions of these sorts that were made at lower levels, if both the subject and the manifester agree to pay the necessary XP before this power is manifested (see below). The subject must abide by the standard rules for selecting skills and feats, and so it cannot take feats for which it doesn’t qualify or take crossclass skills as class skills."
is not clear cut enough to me to declare for either case. I suppose if the verb was "it didn't qualify" it wouldn't be confusing.

That said, I'm partial to interpret it as not allowing you to put leadership on your 3rd level feat, because mechanically that spell is clearly meant to be a respec, what it says it does is "change the decision you made when you gained level X", so you can't put leadership on your 3rd level slot, or put a feat before another feat prereque that you have "right now"

[Crichton]

Looking closely at the wording, I'd be inclined to allow it, actually.


RAW, Psychic Reformation doesn't have the clause that you need to have qualified for the replacement feat at the time you selected the feat you're replacing. It just says you can't select a feat you don't qualify for. So RAW, yeah, I think that'd work. RAI? Well, as others have said, RAI is that you're undo/redoing the selection, so one could make a case for not allowing it.


But compare it to the other method for replacing feats: the Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle. Shun the Dark Chaos is clear that you only have to qualify for the replacement feat right now, so it explicitly can be used to replace any feat with any other feat you currently qualify for.


With that precedent set, I'd easily be inclined to rule in favor of the RAW of PsyRef over the perceived RAI, and allow it to do the same.

[Pinkie Pyro]

Let's say you're creating a new character at 21st level. You're making an epic level character, but you can't spend all your pre-epic feat slots on epic feats. This is the standard rules for selecting feats. Those same standard rules apply to Psychic Reformation:

"A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite. (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#prerequisites)"

That means if your feat has prerequisite: BAB 6, you can get it at 6th level. it *does not* say you can only get a feat at the level you meet the prerequisites, and if it did, that would be silly.

As for the question, phychic reformation does not specifically state anything about timing, so it should be only current prerequisites.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

That means if your feat has prerequisite: BAB 6, you can get it at 6th level. it *does not* say you can only get a feat at the level you meet the prerequisites, and if it did, that would be silly.

As for the question, phychic reformation does not specifically state anything about timing, so it should be only current prerequisites.

I wasn't implying that you can only gain it at the level you meet the prerequisites, I was pointing out that RAW you can't gain a feat at level before meeting the prerequisites. This is part of the standard rules for gaining feats, which Psychic Reformation clearly states you're still limited by.

[Pinkie Pyro]

I wasn't implying that you can only gain it at the level you meet the prerequisites, I was pointing out that RAW you can't gain a feat at level before meeting the prerequisites. This is part of the standard rules for gaining feats, which Psychic Reformation clearly states you're still limited by.

it doesn't at all say that. that line only says the level you meet a prerequisite you can take a feat. it does not care what level you are when you meet the prerequisites unless you'd meet the prerequisites at the level you get the feat, in which case you can take it at that level.

[Melcar]

"starting" at level 21 is not the same as using psychic reformation tho, because you would be simulating the level ups when you "start" at level 21.

the wording of
"The subject can undo decisions of these sorts that were made at lower levels, if both the subject and the manifester agree to pay the necessary XP before this power is manifested (see below). The subject must abide by the standard rules for selecting skills and feats, and so it cannot take feats for which it doesnÂ’t qualify or take crossclass skills as class skills."
is not clear cut enough to me to declare for either case. I suppose if the verb was "it didn't qualify" it wouldn't be confusing.

That said, I'm partial to interpret it as not allowing you to put leadership on your 3rd level feat, because mechanically that spell is clearly meant to be a respec, what it says it does is "change the decision you made when you gained level X", so you can't put leadership on your 3rd level slot, or put a feat before another feat prereque that you have "right now"

But you are not level 3, you are level X which does meet the prerequisite. People here make it sound as if by using Psychic Reformation, the character is supposed to count as if it was the level it was when changing the feat it wants to change. Like if you wanted to change a the feat one took at level 3, the character casting psychic reformation would count only as level 3. That is not the case. You still could as a level X (in my example level 29) and precisely therefore one would meet the requirement, no matter which of the feats you changed. Also, as I've mentioned before, feats does not have a level fixed to them, so you just have a number of feats available... not level-specific feats. Again, there is AFAIK no hard rule that says that the feat you gained at level 6 only can be used for feats you had access to up to level 6. When changing a feat using Psychic Reformation, you calculate whether or not you meet the prerequisites at the time you cast Psychic reformation, not as your character was at the time you gained access to the feat you want to change!!!



Looking closely at the wording, I'd be inclined to allow it, actually.


RAW, Psychic Reformation doesn't have the clause that you need to have qualified for the replacement feat at the time you selected the feat you're replacing. It just says you can't select a feat you don't qualify for. So RAW, yeah, I think that'd work. RAI? Well, as others have said, RAI is that you're undo/redoing the selection, so one could make a case for not allowing it.


But compare it to the other method for replacing feats: the Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle. Shun the Dark Chaos is clear that you only have to qualify for the replacement feat right now, so it explicitly can be used to replace any feat with any other feat you currently qualify for.


With that precedent set, I'd easily be inclined to rule in favor of the RAW of PsyRef over the perceived RAI, and allow it to do the same. .


That means if your feat has prerequisite: BAB 6, you can get it at 6th level. it *does not* say you can only get a feat at the level you meet the prerequisites, and if it did, that would be silly.

As for the question, phychic reformation does not specifically state anything about timing, so it should be only current prerequisites.

My point exactly!



I wasn't implying that you can only gain it at the level you meet the prerequisites, I was pointing out that RAW you can't gain a feat at level before meeting the prerequisites. This is part of the standard rules for gaining feats, which Psychic Reformation clearly states you're still limited by.

Where specifically does it state what the standard rules are? Can you reference a page number that specifically says what you just said?

In PHB it only says that in order to gain a feat, you only have to meet the prerequisites! It does not directly say that when ever you take a feat, you have to calculated whether or not you meet X-prerequisite at the time which you gain access to a feat. Effectively this means, that so long as you meet the prerequisite of a feat, a feat does not care or know whether you are level 3 or level 25. What I mean by that, is by casting Psychic Reformation, you calculate whether you meet the prerequisite of a feat at the time of casting Psychic Reformation. This means that if I wanted you chance the feat I took at level 3, I would look to see whether my level 25 character met the requirements of the feat I wanted to alter, and if so, I would change it. Nowhere does it actually say that if I want to change the feat I took at level 3, that I have to calculate whether or not I meet the prerequisite of the new feat when my character was only level 3. To say that is reading into what you think is the RAI. However, that's not what is the RAW.

Again, feats are not level-bound, you simply have access to a number of feats, not two level 1 feats, one level 3 feat, one level 6 feat, etc., etc.

[Gusmo]

If it helps, the void disciple prestige class in Complete Divine allows you to temporarily gain any feat not related to ancestry, even if you don't meet the prerequisites.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

PHB page 87 under Prerequisites:

Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the
indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus,
or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A
character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she
gains the prerequisite.

PHB page 58-59 under Level Advancement:

7. Feats: Upon attaining 3rd level and at every third level
thereafter (6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th level), the character gains
one feat of your choice (see Table 5–1: Feats, page 90). The character
must meet any prerequisites for that feat in order to select it. As with
ability score increases, it is the overall character level, not the class
level, that determines when a character gets a new feat.

So from that we can conclude that a character can gain a feat no sooner than a level at which he meets the prerequisites. Because if he didn't meet the prerequisites at that level or earlier, he can't select that feat at that level.

Psychic Reformation doesn't say it's a way around that rule, in fact it specifically says you must continue abiding by the standard feat selection rules. It also specifically says you change what you picked from level advancement, following the standard rules for such. Thus 100% of those rules still apply, feats selected due to Psychic Reformation are chosen as though from leveling up.

[XionUnborn01]

I wouldn't let it fly. When it says "characters must follow standard rules etc etc" to me, that means the standard rules for when they earned the feat they're changing.

It might just be that I really dislike the way people try to lawyer some spells and abilities but to me it's obvious that you can't go on a free for all with the feats.

[Thurbane]

I can't see it working.

I wouldn't allow use of Physic Reformation to place Epic feats in non-epic slots (except for the true dragon rule) any more than I would allow use of PR to place Ancestral Relic, Draconic Aura, Least Legacy, or Truebond in your 1st level feat slot.

[Doctor Despair]

One more rules-lawyery use of Psychic Reformation that should work, however, is to trade out old feats you used for pre-requisited for your current prcs. Unless the class is from Complete Arcane or Complete Warrior, after you've taken your first level in the class, you no longer need to keep the prerequisite to continue advancing in the class and using the abilities granted by it. Perhaps, OP, you can get rid of your prerequisites in favor of more useful non-epic feats to raise the power level of the character, and to ensure that you don't need to use any of your epic feat slots for non-epic feats?

[darkdragoon]

It doesn't look like there is a specific clause but at the same time, the prereqs usually include other feats, unless you just want super generic stuff like Epic Toughness.

[Melcar]

PHB page 87 under Prerequisites:


PHB page 58-59 under Level Advancement:


So from that we can conclude that a character can gain a feat no sooner than a level at which he meets the prerequisites. Because if he didn't meet the prerequisites at that level or earlier, he can't select that feat at that level.

Psychic Reformation doesn't say it's a way around that rule, in fact it specifically says you must continue abiding by the standard feat selection rules. It also specifically says you change what you picked from level advancement, following the standard rules for such. Thus 100% of those rules still apply, feats selected due to Psychic Reformation are chosen as though from leveling up.

I'm not talking about getting a feat sooner, I'm talking about getting a feat later. My character example was level 29 and thus meets all the requirements of said feat. Nowhere does Psychic Reformation ask you to go back and calcaulate whether or not you would have met certain prerequisites at any other level than when you are actually casting Psychic Reformation. So, I have to look at my character as he is at level 29 and see if he meets the prerequisites. And he does!

The standard feat selection rule is this: "Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat" And my level 29 example does that!

Furthermore, and I have said this multiple times now, feats are not fixed, locked or in anyway associated with a given level. Each character has a pool of feats. Sure it would seem that way when leveling up, because you always take a feat when gaining access to one at each 3 level intivals, but feats are NOT locked/fixed/ascribed to a certain level! So I'm not going back and rearanging my level 3 feat, I'm changing the feat I chose at level 3, and there is a huge difference!

Feats should NOT be counted as being Two level 1 feats, one level 3 feat, one level 6 feat, one level 9 feat... etc! That not how it works. You simply look at what level you are, and how many feats you have and then allocate them as you see fit - so long as you meet every prerequisite of each feat. Its that simple.

Neither the rules in PHB or Psychic Reformation mentions anything about timing, or calculating whether a character meets a given feats prerequisites at any other time then when its cast. And so we can conclude that you look at your current level (when casting Psychic Reformation) to determine if you meet a prerequisite or not! Not arbitrarilly go back and look at whether your level 3 character would meet the prerequisite, but whether your level 29 would. When PHB says: "Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat" So long as you honor this, then a feat does not know or care if its been chosen by the feat you gained at level 1 or level 18.

I'll grant you, that the feat retraining rules in PHB2 does make the requirement of going back and looking at whether you would have met prerequisites at a certain level, but I'm not talking about the retraining rules here, but specifically Psychic Reformation, and that does not have the same rule.

[Thurbane]

Nowhere does Psychic Reformation ask you to go back and calcaulate whether or not you would have met certain prerequisites at any other level than when you are actually casting Psychic Reformation.

So, If I'm understanding your view correctly, you read this:


The subject must abide by the standard rules for selecting skills and feats, and so it cannot take feats for which it doesn’t qualify or take crossclass skills as class skills.

..as meaning you check eligibility for feats at the current level when you receive PR, rather than the level of the feat slot you are changing out?

I mean, I can see how it could be read that way, but (at least IMHO) the clear intent is that you check for eligibility for the level of the slot being swapped, not current character level.

[Melcar]

So, If I'm understanding your view correctly, you read this:



..as meaning you check eligibility for feats at the current level when you receive PR, rather than the level of the feat slot you are changing out?

I mean, I can see how it could be read that way, but (at least IMHO) the clear intent is that you check for eligibility for the level of the slot being swapped, not current character level.

Indeed! That is exactly the way I understand/ read that rule. I assume, that if it had been the other way around (check for eligibility for the level of the slot being swapped), it would have mentioned so. - Just like the aforementioned Feat Retraining-rules in PHB2 as well as the PF version of the same power. However, it does not!

While I agree that the RAI might very well be as you point out. Strictly RAW, I don't see it. IMHO, it simply says that you have to honor the prerequisite, and since you are swapping/taking feats at the time of casting PR I cant think of any other time you would check for eligibility than when casting PR... because it does not say so. Pretty much just like Shun the Dark Chaos.

Therefore, if you have access to epic feats, I likewise can't see any direct hindrance in swapping to epic feats. Now, granted there might be a direct rule, which clearly denotes epic feats as a special kind of feat, thus one that you only get a few of, but AFAICT there is no such distinction. You either have access to epic feats or you do not.

[DarkSoul]

The direct hindrance is the extreme imbalance created between the characters and the DM's world if one PC does this and the DM lets it happen for some ridiculous reason. The intent, and impression given by a normal reading of the power, is that you're undoing choices made on a level-by-level basis going back from your current level as far as you want to go. Then, you make your feat and skill choices again on a level-by-level basis.

If this is just a thought exercise, then I suppose if you squint your eyes and tilt your head just right you can make this kind of leap in logic. If it's for actual play make sure you wear your dice-proof helmet and prepare for the DM to laugh when this gets suggested, and laugh even harder when they realize it's a serious request.

[ciopo]

But you are not level 3, you are level X which does meet the prerequisite. People here make it sound as if by using Psychic Reformation, the character is supposed to count as if it was the level it was when changing the feat it wants to change. Like if you wanted to change a the feat one took at level 3, the character casting psychic reformation would count only as level 3. That is not the case. You still could as a level X (in my example level 29) and precisely therefore one would meet the requirement, no matter which of the feats you changed. Also, as I've mentioned before, feats does not have a level fixed to them, so you just have a number of feats available... not level-specific feats. Again, there is AFAIK no hard rule that says that the feat you gained at level 6 only can be used for feats you had access to up to level 6. When changing a feat using Psychic Reformation, you calculate whether or not you meet the prerequisites at the time you cast Psychic reformation, not as your character was at the time you gained access to the feat you want to change!!!


I am not disagreeing with you on this.

My point of contention is that PR effect is "the subject can [snip] from its previous level to its current level." using it with the extra xp cost to remaking earlier choices is changing that "previous level to current level" to "level X-1 to level X"

If I were to be extra nitpicking of RAW, that part of spending extra xp to undo lower levels is dysfunctional because it says you cna undo your choices,but not that you can pick new choices for these lower levels