King of Nowhere
2020-09-15, 02:19 PM
we all know the power of shapechange to get all the supernatural abilities for free. most people ban it. some use it only in very high op settings.
well, my setting isn't so high op, but a player wanted to use shapechange. another wanted to summon feys, and other creatures with spellcasting more powerful than its own.
i just thought i'd share a way i found to reduce those spells to more manageable levels without banning them entirely.
note that i'm not calling it a fix. I don't call it a fix because I don't believe there is any such thing as a fix of this game; there are only many different ways to make it work, each one working for a different table.
it starts from a fluff premise
"a summoned creature is entirely created by the spell. when the summoned creature casts a spell, the power for it comes from the summoning spell. The same goes for using magical abilities while polymorphed, the power comes from the polymorph spell.
But magic energy is conserved; if your started creatures start spamming spells, the spell that summoned them will not have enough power to sustain those spells. so you need to power up those spells with another source, namely your own spell slots."
when you start using summons/polymorphs as a way to mimic powerful spells - whether the ability used is spell-like, supernatural or etraordinary doesn't matter - you gotta pay for them by sacrificing your own spell slots of equivalent level. If you can't/won't, then you cannot mimic the spell. In particular
- spells up to 3 levels below the parent spells take little enough energy that they are for free, unless you are spamming them by the dozens
- you are allowed up to two spells of 1 or 2 levels lower than the parent spell, OR 1 spell of the same level
- for anything above that, you need to sacrifice a prepared spell, or a spell slot for a spontaneous caster, of the same level as the spell you want to copy.
- you must pay any price in xp or gp that the spell would normally have, even if the creature can do it for free. remember, it's not the creature using that spell, it's you.
- if somebody other than the caster is polymorphed into a spellcasting form, then they can cast spells from their form using the caster's spells only if the caster is within 9 meters, and willing. they can always sacrifice their own spell slots to fuel a spell this way.
this nerf has many pros
- it prevents the players from accessing magic more powerful than they have
- it prevents spell spamming by shapechange or summoned creatures
- players still retain the versatility. they are able to access alternate spells, and abilities they normally would not have. they are just prevented from using them for free all day.
- it does not stop nonbroken uses of those spells
- it has a good fluff reasoning, especially with the established physics of my campaign
- it can be generalized to an entire class of spells, without having to look at them one by one
i admit, though, it has a few limitations.
- main one, it's not clear exactly what constitutes mimicking a spell. if you summon a bronze dragon, and that dragon uses its alternate form ability, does that count as mimiking an "alter self" spell?
as such, it can only work in a group with a good level of trust.
then again, if i didn't trust my players, i would ban the spell entirely.
- second, it does not address the crazy stats one can reach by shapechanging to a powerful form. to which i have a couple other potential nerfs in case they will be needed. i will need to see how crazy can those stats become.
well, my setting isn't so high op, but a player wanted to use shapechange. another wanted to summon feys, and other creatures with spellcasting more powerful than its own.
i just thought i'd share a way i found to reduce those spells to more manageable levels without banning them entirely.
note that i'm not calling it a fix. I don't call it a fix because I don't believe there is any such thing as a fix of this game; there are only many different ways to make it work, each one working for a different table.
it starts from a fluff premise
"a summoned creature is entirely created by the spell. when the summoned creature casts a spell, the power for it comes from the summoning spell. The same goes for using magical abilities while polymorphed, the power comes from the polymorph spell.
But magic energy is conserved; if your started creatures start spamming spells, the spell that summoned them will not have enough power to sustain those spells. so you need to power up those spells with another source, namely your own spell slots."
when you start using summons/polymorphs as a way to mimic powerful spells - whether the ability used is spell-like, supernatural or etraordinary doesn't matter - you gotta pay for them by sacrificing your own spell slots of equivalent level. If you can't/won't, then you cannot mimic the spell. In particular
- spells up to 3 levels below the parent spells take little enough energy that they are for free, unless you are spamming them by the dozens
- you are allowed up to two spells of 1 or 2 levels lower than the parent spell, OR 1 spell of the same level
- for anything above that, you need to sacrifice a prepared spell, or a spell slot for a spontaneous caster, of the same level as the spell you want to copy.
- you must pay any price in xp or gp that the spell would normally have, even if the creature can do it for free. remember, it's not the creature using that spell, it's you.
- if somebody other than the caster is polymorphed into a spellcasting form, then they can cast spells from their form using the caster's spells only if the caster is within 9 meters, and willing. they can always sacrifice their own spell slots to fuel a spell this way.
this nerf has many pros
- it prevents the players from accessing magic more powerful than they have
- it prevents spell spamming by shapechange or summoned creatures
- players still retain the versatility. they are able to access alternate spells, and abilities they normally would not have. they are just prevented from using them for free all day.
- it does not stop nonbroken uses of those spells
- it has a good fluff reasoning, especially with the established physics of my campaign
- it can be generalized to an entire class of spells, without having to look at them one by one
i admit, though, it has a few limitations.
- main one, it's not clear exactly what constitutes mimicking a spell. if you summon a bronze dragon, and that dragon uses its alternate form ability, does that count as mimiking an "alter self" spell?
as such, it can only work in a group with a good level of trust.
then again, if i didn't trust my players, i would ban the spell entirely.
- second, it does not address the crazy stats one can reach by shapechanging to a powerful form. to which i have a couple other potential nerfs in case they will be needed. i will need to see how crazy can those stats become.