What’s the best combination of Battlemaster/Rogue?

[KOLE]

I’ve got a character combination that sounds like fun. A small time sneaky thief, caught and pressed into service in the local arm for his crimes. They never lose their sneaky edge, but gain some martial discipline along the way. The gist of the build is Vhuman crossbow expert, 3 battlemaster for maneuvers and X rogue for sneak attack dice. Pick up sharpshooter, rest dex boosts. Heavy crossbow for long range combat, but the meat of the build would be main attack rapier, BA hand crossbow for SS damage, either on the same target or a different one depending on the situation. Maneuvers include accuracy booster (forgettin the name) for SS attacks and Riposte for that sweet sweet double sneak attack with rapier. This feels solid, but I’m wondering what order of levels I should take or if there’s any combos I’m missing? Doesn’t feel like extra attack is worth it especially with the BA crossbow attack, but maybe you can show me some math to prove me wrong?

[No brains]

If you have another rogue in the party (especially someone using the same build) Battlemaster 5/ Rogue X can get pretty silly as you give each other sneak attacks with Commander's Strike until your maneuver dice run out.

The same trick can also work with Vhuman (Martial Adept) Deep Stalker 3/ Rogue X, coming online slightly earlier with fewer sneak attack attempts overall.

[KOLE]

If you have another rogue in the party (especially someone using the same build) Battlemaster 5/ Rogue X can get pretty silly as you give each other sneak attacks with Commander's Strike until your maneuver dice run out.

The same trick can also work with Vhuman (Martial Adept) Deep Stalker 3/ Rogue X, coming online slightly earlier with fewer sneak attack attempts overall.

Jeezums. Between riposte and commander’s strike, that is an insane amount of sneak attack being dished out, almost definitely two a round. That’s disgusting. And I love it. This is exactly the kind of cheese Im looking for. Thank you!

[Lyracian]

Riposte for that sweet sweet double sneak attack with rapier. This feels solid, but I’m wondering what order of levels I should take or if there’s any combos I’m missing? Doesn’t feel like extra attack is worth it especially with the BA crossbow attack, but maybe you can show me some math to prove me wrong?
It is a solid build. for Me Extra Attack is one of the reason to take more than 3 Fighter Levels.

Starting Rogue gives you more skills but Starting Fighter gives you Con save and Heavy Armour (even if you are unlikely to ever use it). Level two take the other class
Not sure if you have thought of Sub-classes for Rogue? Arcane Trickster gives you spells and Swashbuckler gives you mobility.

Level 10 - Fighter 6 / Rogue 4. This gives you 3 ASI's for the extra Feats/Dex you want. 2 Attacks plus bonus crossbow with +2d6 Sneak if one of them hits.

Level 20 - You have some choices finished even gives you an extra ASI but finishing off can give you third level spells if you are a Trickster
Max Feats - Rogue 12 / Fighter 8
3rd Lvl Spells - Rogue 13 / Fighter 7
Third Attack - Fighter 11 / Rogue 9

[da newt]

Also, you need a free hand to load your hand crossbow, so no dual wielding rapier + HXB. Just use the HXB (w/ XBE there is no penalty for shooting in melee range).

I agree - BM5 / Rogue X (or BM6 for an ASI), and I prefer Arcane Trickster w/ a familiar for HELP action. Archery fighting style and SS are pretty much mandatory too. Riposte and Precision Strike and Commander's Strike (if there is another rogue in the party) or Menacing Attack (if not) are my preferences. You can get some good control out of Menacing with good positioning.

I played a gloomstalker ranger - arcane trickster - battlemaster once: He was pretty fun and the first round nova when everything lined up was sweet (unseen, action surge, dread ambusher, SS, for 7 attacks w/ ADV plus maneuvers).

[Keravath]

1) As mentioned you can't reload any crossbow without a free hand. Xbow expert gets rid of the loading property but not the ammunition property. So you can only fire the hand crossbow once if you plan to use it with a rapier in the other hand.

2) You only get the bonus action attack with a hand crossbow. This means that most of the time, folks using this build, wield a single hand crossbow since then they get both the attack action attack and the bonus action attack.

3) Long bow has a longer range (though smaller damage die) than a heavy xbow so it is worth considering as the backup for the hand crossbow.

4) Some good builds along these lines are battlemaster fighter + rogue but also gloomstalker ranger + rogue. This is especially true for a variant human since the gloomstalker gets darkvision at third level (plus invisibility in the dark to creatures using darkvision to see). It is sad to have a rogue that can't be stealthy in the dark but that is more of a role play choice.

5) As mentioned, riposte and commander's strike are both useful ... however, commander's strike needs the user to give up one of their attacks to another character. This works well if you have a level 5 fighter + rogue since the fighter gives up one of their attacks to enable an extra sneak attack from the rogue. It doesn't work if you only have one attack (ie battlemaster 3 + rogue - giving up your attack to let someone else make a sneak attack may not be that effective). Also, riposte only works with melee weapon attacks when you are attacked in melee. You have to make a melee weapon attack in response so it doesn't mesh well with using a hand crossbow in melee in terms of generating extra sneak attacks. It works well for a melee rogue though.

[Stangler]

I understand the desire to be both melee and ranged but the BM/Rogue combo is most optimal when you focus on one or the other.

If ranged it is all about 3 attacks with Archery FS, Xbow expert and sharpshooter with your BM Precision attack really helping you out. I don't think the rogue subclass you pick really matters that much here. It is most important to just get one you like.

If melee it is all about using your opportunity attack to get an extra sneak attack per round with riposte and sentinel. AT will help you in this build a lot but it takes getting level 2 spells for it to to really come together. Swashbuckler provides some really great abilities and fits in well with the master duelist playstyle and means you don't have to worry about where your team is.

If you really like the concept of using a rapier and a hand crossbow you need a magical repeating hand crossbow OR go at least 2 into Artificer and pick up the repeating shot infusion. This would open up a huge can of worms build wise.

[Man_Over_Game]

I’ve got a character combination that sounds like fun. A small time sneaky thief, caught and pressed into service in the local arm for his crimes. They never lose their sneaky edge, but gain some martial discipline along the way. The gist of the build is Vhuman crossbow expert, 3 battlemaster for maneuvers and X rogue for sneak attack dice. Pick up sharpshooter, rest dex boosts. Heavy crossbow for long range combat, but the meat of the build would be main attack rapier, BA hand crossbow for SS damage, either on the same target or a different one depending on the situation. Maneuvers include accuracy booster (forgettin the name) for SS attacks and Riposte for that sweet sweet double sneak attack with rapier. This feels solid, but I’m wondering what order of levels I should take or if there’s any combos I’m missing? Doesn’t feel like extra attack is worth it especially with the BA crossbow attack, but maybe you can show me some math to prove me wrong?

It mostly depends on what your role is. Are you a mobile front-liner that can handle himself in a firefight, or are you a slippery sniper that takes down targets with lethal efficiency?

You are basically aiming for:

3 into Fighter
2 into Rogue

And the rest can fit between those, depending on whether you're more melee or sniper. It honestly doesn't matter too terribly much, as there aren't any real "dead" levels between the two that won't be relevant.

There is one big caveat, though, Sharpshooter is worse the higher your base damage is. That makes it good with Crossbow Expert and multiple attacks, but bad with Rogues. If you are planning on taking a High Rogue, Low Fighter build, you might as well take something else.