Sacrifices

[Volug]

Well... I'm doing what I thought I would ever do.
I'm practically throwing away more then half of my metal music. Due to somethings I learned today I decided it would help me out in the very long run.

Acually I only threw away the songs I consider "bad". Lyrics, what they mean, if they had bad language, etc.

I do still have some, but the ones I really liked.... Well they are alot worse then I thought >_<
I just took the time to do... Stuff... and learned things. I knew that this is going to better my life in lots of ways (Can't say though... PM me if your REALLY curious.). It's going to be tough and I thought I would never do this. It's kinda like a conflict in my mind, one says "Those songs are good! Just don't listen to the lyrics!" and the other is "NO!!!!"
I can't say why (again) but this is a pretty big desition...

I looked at some and figured out some of the meanings and.... I knew I shouldn't be listening to them. I know what your thinking, "HE'S CRAZY!!!". Well it's my choice so... Please don't make fun of it.

This is going to be VERY hard for me since some of my favorite songs I had to get rid of. But I'm going to try, and I know it will work out and make my life more positive in alot more ways then one.:smallbiggrin:

[averagejoe]

I dunno the specifics, but good for you. Taking steps for betterment is never a negative, even if they don't ultimately turn out to be the right ones. Anyways, I'm always a supporter of people getting rid of the kipple in their life.

[A Rainy Knight]

Sounds like you made the right choice to me. I just ignore songs that I realize have lyrics I don't care for.

[Ceres]

Well, in any case you'll make Jack Chick happy. Mind giving some examples of what music you are throwing away?

[Haruki-kun]

I don't think you're crazy. I did a similiar thing a while ago. I think it'svery brave to do something like this. Good job! :smallsmile:

[Volug]

Well, in any case you'll make Jack Chick happy. Mind giving some examples of what music you are throwing away?

You'll laugh since you'll think some won't be any where near "bad".:smallbiggrin:

I still will though, not for awile.

Thanks for not thinking I'm crazy!!:smallbiggrin: :smalltongue: :smallamused:

[Dr. Bath]

You gotta keep the kipple at bay, that is true (says someone whose room is entirely kipple).

Whatever your reasons it's your decision, for better or worse. Sometimes it's nice to have things that may not be 'good' for you but you enjoy but if you want to remove temptation or something that's all well and good.

Good luck with the fight against the kipple!

[TSGames]

Sounds like the same reason I don't listen to Pink Floyd all the time...

[The Orange Zergling]

Personally, I'd only remove things from my life if they negatively affect me, physically or psychologically. Only come across one example so far, and it's been... thoroughly purged from my computer. But whatever, you're not me, do what you want.

But I'll still listen to whatever I like, unless I start getting more aggressive, depressed, anti-social, or what have you. Hell, I partake in the occasional Korn song. And "Come What(ever) May" is still one of my favorite songs, despite a lot of harsh language.

[Volug]

Alright, here is some lyrics *Scrubbed if it contains vulger language*
Some you will wonder why I threw them out so I gave reasons why...



1. The Light That Blinds - by Shadows fall

A crack forms in the foundation
Fault line through your defenses
Illuminating the essence
Once clouded by a myth

Store bought conformity
Force-fed duality, I warp reality

The comfort that you will find,
As you remain hidden.
The light betrays,
casting your true self away,
They remain blinded.

As Vanity possesses me
I am turning further away
Gripped by a belief in empty words
Driven by a need to prove

The shell may wither
But the fire burns eternal

You hide behind
...cower...
The light that blinds

Will never find
What burns inside
You remain blind
Behind the light

This has no bad language... But it conflicts with my Religion a bit. Since if you look at them you will pretty much get the impression that doing what is right will blind you from things that truly are... Which is so very not true to me.....


The bass, the rock
The mic, the treble
I like my coffee black
Just like my metal
with the
The bass, the rock
The mic, the treble
I like my coffee black
Just like my metal
cause
I can't wait for you to knock me up
In a minute, minute
In a ******* minute

I can't wait for you to knock me up
In a minute, minute
In a second

I can't wait for you to shut me up
And make me hip like bad***
I can't wait for you to shut me up
Shut it up

I can't wait for you to shut me up
And make me hit my bad***
I can't wait for you to shut me up
Shut it up

la la la oo~oh la la la oo~oh la la la oo~oh

The bass, the rock
The mic, the trouble
I like my coffee black
Just like my metal
with the
The bass, the rock
The mic, the trouble
I like my coffee black
Just like my metal
cause
I can't wait for you to knock me up
In a minute, minute
In a ****** minute

I can't wait for you to knock me up
In a minute, minute
In a second

I can't wait for you to shut me up
And make me hip like bad***
I can't wait for you to shut me up
Shut it up

I can't wait for you to shut me up
And make me hip like bad***
I can't wait for you to shut me up
Shut it up

I don't find it funny right now (right now)
I want my m-m-m-money right now (now)
I'm on my way to the party right now (right now)

I don't find it funny right now (right now)
I want my m-m-m-money right now (now)
I'm on my way to the party right now (right now)

Because the break, the break, the break

I can't wait for you to shut me up
And make me hip like bad***
I can't wait for you to shut me up
Shut it up

I can't wait for you to shut me up
And make me hip like bad***
I can't wait for you to shut me up
Shut it up

>_< isn't it obvious? Swares to much for my liking

thats only a few, some others are...
Another Holy War-Blind Gaurdian (See title....)
Buck Dich-Rammstien (It talks about.... things... in german)
Blood of a King - Manowar (yeah, can't say)

some other songs from Manowar as well....
(THere are some more but I can't remember....)

[zeratul]

Personally, I'd only remove things from my life if they negatively affect me, physically or psychologically. Only come across one example so far, and it's been... thoroughly purged from my computer. But whatever, you're not me, do what you want.

But I'll still listen to whatever I like, unless I start getting more aggressive, depressed, anti-social, or what have you. Hell, I partake in the occasional Korn song. And "Come What(ever) May" is still one of my favorite songs, despite a lot of harsh language.

Okay that's an awesome song, I just listened to it after you mentioned it, so thank you for that.

[Zephra]

I looked at some and figured out some of the meanings and.... I knew I shouldn't be listening to them. I know what your thinking, "HE'S CRAZY!!!". Well it's my choice so... Please don't make fun of it.


that's really, really great. I don't get how people listen to music they know is giving them wrong ideas, has horrible meanings, or is generally idiotic. good job.

[Volug]

>_<
...oh... I found another one. I liked it until I found out what he was saying..

Don't even look if you don't like bad lyrics... I can't even scrub the thing so I'm not posting lyrics.

It's called "Violence Fetish" By disturbed:smalleek:

[Icewalker]

Yeah, a lot of my songs are similar to yours. I find if I dislike the lyrics, then that affects how much I like the song, but it won't entirely make me not listen to it. Some of my songs make me a little uncomfortable, but I ignore the lyrics and don't play them around my parents (ie, anything from Mindless Self Indulgence would be the most negative end of this. I barely listen to them.)

[Semidi]

Starting the donate your music to Semidi fund who doesn't care what the music's about as long as he likes it fund. I'll pay for shipping?

[PhoeKun]

I will say this:

I encourage people to look inward to get a sense of themselves. Knowing who you and how you fit into the world is one of the great (yet daunting) tasks people can (and should) set before themselves (parentheses!).

To those who have a sense of self, I am thoroughly impressed by those who make sacrifices in the name of self improvement.

I worry, however, as to whether or not such sacrifices are made in order to improve one's self, or out of fear that something has the potential to harm them, because a lot of people miss out on a great deal in life for the sake of that fear.

I can't claim to understand (or know) your motivations, Masato, so there isn't much I can say to your situation, specifically. But those are my thoughts on this type of thing in general.

[Ego Slayer]

While I can't comment directly on the material you're tossing aside, for how much I'd like to, or why your choosing to do so, for obvious reasons (your mention of some songs conflicting with your religion), BUT...

:smallamused:

... I'm glad to see someone stepping away from some of the loud, sometimes crude, obnoxious, world of metal, even if I probably don't entirely agree with why. :smalltongue:

I can agree, though, that there is quite a bit of necessary swearing. If you're gonna swear, use it with some real meaning, not just 'cos you're an "angry" metal band. :smallyuk:

[zeratul]

While I can't comment directly on the material you're tossing aside, for how much I'd like to, or why your choosing to do so, for obvious reasons (your mention of some songs conflicting with your religion), BUT...

:smallamused:

... I'm glad to see someone stepping away from some of the loud, sometimes crude, obnoxious, world of metal, even if I probably don't entirely agree with why. :smalltongue:

I can agree, though, that there is quite a bit of necessary swearing. If you're gonna swear, use it with some real meaning, not just 'cos you're an "angry" metal band. :smallyuk:

An example of well used swearing would be the song "Come What(ever) May" that Orange Zergling mentioned.

[Crow]

Don't give it up bro. Or at least send it all my way....

[Ego Slayer]

An example of well used swearing would be the song "Come What(ever) May" that Orange Zergling mentioned.
Yeah, I know the song, but haven't heard it in so long I don't remember in what part he swears. *youtubes*

I'm thinking of Elliott Smith swearing, now. =P
He can use it right...

[zeratul]

Yeah, I know the song, but haven't heard it in so long I don't remember in what part he swears. *youtubes*

I'm thinking of Elliott Smith swearing, now. =P
He can use it right...

Or Ben Folds swearing. THAT's some well used swearing right there!

[SurlySeraph]

I do the same thing. Before buying a song that I've heard, I now always look up the lyrics to make sure they aren't in conflict with my beliefs. I've gotten rid of a lot of songs that I think sound great doing this. Out of probably a dozen Rage Against the Machine songs that I like, there are only 2 that I still listen to, and don't even get me started about Slayer. So awesome-sounding... but so eeeevil.


>_<
...oh... I found another one. I liked it until I found out what he was saying..

Don't even look if you don't like bad lyrics... I can't even scrub the thing so I'm not posting lyrics.

It's called "Violence Fetish" By disturbed:smalleek:

That's a good song. I don't think that conflicts with peaceful religion at all. Though everyone obviously interprets things differently, I think that song's about self-expression and not driving yourself insane by trying to repress yourself too much. It doesn't actually have a really violent or sexualized message. Of course, you might interpret it differently.

Or maybe I'm just denying that there's anything wrong with that song because I'm too much of a Disturbed fanboy. :smalltongue: At least I don't listen to their really evil songs, like The Game (http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Disturbed/The-Game.html) or Meaning of Life (http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/disturbed/meaningoflife.html)...

[Lemur]

I was initially confused as to why you singled out metal, but it seems to be more of a lyrics thing. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the metal style of music, although admittedly I don't listen to a lot of it. Reading this thread actually made me start listening to Dream Theater, though.

I suppose it's true that I listen to music as the situation merits. Like another poster said, there are reasons that I don't listen to Pink Floyd all the time, as good as they are. The same goes for some of Frank Zappa's songs, although for entirely different reasons. Especially in the case of Zappa, it helps that I'm really bad at paying attention to the lyrics. For the first time recently, I really listened to "Baby Snakes" and actually realized what the song was about :smallsigh: . It's fairly easy for me to not listen to a song though, so I don't really throw away music, even if I don't listen to it anymore.

Whatever the case is, good luck to you. I may not fully understand your position, but I understand what it's like to have a position that others don't understand, and I can respect that. Do what you think is important.

[Pyro]

Interesting perspective here, even if I disagree with it. I could like a song and hate what the lyrics say because I they go against my beliefs. I guess the question is does the type of art you enjoy reflect who you are and what you believe in? In some ways yes, especially literature. But in places like music I believe ideas the ideas conveyed in lyrics do not matter. You can enjoy a song, but not know what it means as people here have shown. It all comes down to whether you feel threatened by the ideas in songs. As for me I feel comfortable in what I believe to listen to any music I like, despite what it means.

Plus I don't like metal.:smalltongue:

[Rogue 7]

While it's completely up to you Masato (and post in the Tales game already!:smalltongue:), and don't think of this as a criticism, but I disagree. If you liked the music before, don't pay attention to the lyrics is my attitude (although I admit to being fairly creeped out by "Don't Stand So Close to Me" by The Police). For me, music isn't about the lyrics, except to the extent that they add to the music. I don't really think that listening to words I can't understand is going to do me damage, after all, I think freedom of speech applies to lyrics. It's your choice, but I think you're missing out.

[Fiery Justice]

Well done *claps*, good to see you can do what (you feel) is right. Self-Censorship (both what goes in and comes out) is a skill so very rarely learned in our society its shameful (in that we don't learn it, but also in that society doesn't like it). Negative material is never really, seriously, good for you, and there's no point in paying attention to it unless its about something really unchangeable in life.

[Catch]

So you're throwing away music that you like because it contains words that you don't? That seems strange to me, though admittedly I have an extensive vocabulary of swears, curses and oaths that might make a sailor blink twice. Regardless, I don't see how you should feel obligated to purge your music strictly on the basis of content. If you don't like a song, don't listen to it--that I won't contend, but I think you should respect yourself--and your taste-- just a little more. You shouldn't beat yourself up for liking something that's not completely wholesome and saccharine.

I have music with lyrics that I'd probably never use in conversation. I have songs about things that I'd never do and hope never to see. Neither of those are offensive to me because they're songs. I can go see a movie about a murder and not be offended; I'd never murder someone. I can read a book where a person is flagrantly racist; I'd never do so myself. I can listen to a song about drug abuse; I'd never use drugs. The point is, there are emotions attached to each of those subjects and that's what's important. Music is fiction, not reality. When you don't see the line, then you have a problem.

Anyway, listen to what you like, discard the rest. There's no need for guilt.

[averagejoe]

While it's completely up to you Masato (and post in the Tales game already!:smalltongue:), and don't think of this as a criticism, but I disagree. If you liked the music before, don't pay attention to the lyrics is my attitude (although I admit to being fairly creeped out by "Don't Stand So Close to Me" by The Police). For me, music isn't about the lyrics, except to the extent that they add to the music. I don't really think that listening to words I can't understand is going to do me damage, after all, I think freedom of speech applies to lyrics. It's your choice, but I think you're missing out.

It isn't about freedom of speech, though, it's about one person's personal choice. I don't think Masato is trying to say that such music shouldn't be allowed to exist.

Anyways, I obviously can't speak for Masato, but it isn't always about fear of self-corruption. For example, I can't listen to music with sexist lyrics. It isn't because I'm afraid that if I listen to too much that I'll become sexist myself, it's because it deeply bothers me to listen to it. Heck, I can't even stand to listen to that Beatles song, "Getting Better" just because it had that lyric about beating his woman. Again, it isn't because I'm afraid that the song will turn me into a domestic abuser, it's because such things bother me the same way looking at, say, dead bodies bothers some people.

[Fiery Justice]

It seems to be a matter of allowing himself to listen to stuff he feels better about and doesn't have to feel ashamed of. It may be religiously strict, but his religiousness makes it shameful to continue listening. And if there is one thing worse then immediate guilt over something, its enduring shame, you may enjoy it in the immediate sense, but eventually your regret of the deed crawls forward and backward enough that you just regret it all the time, even when you are presently "enjoying" it.

[The Orange Zergling]

I agree with Catch, here. I like The Prison Song by SOAD, and even though part of it's lyrics talks about buying drugs in hollywood, no matter how much I listen to it, I assure you I will not go to hollywood to buy drugs, or even buy drugs at all. Also, I'm not sure I entirely agree with the song's lyrics and point, but hey, it's a song, I like it, I listen to it.

[Rogue 7]

Oh, I completely respect his decision, but I just wanted to point out WHY I disagree with it.

Honestly, it's fairly hypocritical of me, seeing as I won't listen to Rap/Hip-hop for that reason, but in my mind, Rock music with bad lyrics is actually good enough to make up for it- in the musical sense, I mean.

[ForzaFiori]

while i fully respect the fact that your giving up this music for whatever reasons (i believe religion was mentioned, but there could be other reasons), i must admit that i dont fully understand why. I can see if they use too much cursing for your tastes, that is more about your taste in lyrics and songs. However, I dont see the point (no offense intended) of giving up music based on religious beliefs. someone above mentioned Slayer. While yes, it goes against many beliefs, they still have an excellent melody, and an excellent sound. In fact, many people i know listen to them, despite the fact that many are religious. Just like I will listen to bands like POD and Relient K. They have a great sound, whether or not i agree with the lyrics.

But hey, its your choice. do what you will. I give you major props for sticking to a choice to better yourself.

[Volug]

(I will post in the tales game tommorow :smalltongue: I have 6 BIG tests I need to study for)

Anyway I would like to point out, I am not killing all of my metal music! There are some that are totally fine and doesn't have anything bad in it. Some Rammstein (Du Hast) and some Rob Zombie:smallbiggrin:

Also, most of the reasons go too much into religious belifs for me to express myself completly. BIG TIME

[onasuma]

But your killing the best. How could you do such a thing to your MSI?

Personally, i feel that there just words. They're only rude if you allow yourself to find them offensive. Then again, as a budhist, i dont really find any of this conflicting to my religion. In the end i suppose its up to you.

[Raiser Blade]

Just like I will listen to bands like POD and Relient K. They have a great sound, whether or not i agree with the lyrics.


I like Relient K too. POD is okay. And you actually spelled Relient right. Most people spell it reliant.

[Nibleswick]

Of all forms of media, music tends to affect our minds more than any other. I heartily applaud your decision to "cut off your ear because it offends you", so to speak. I have heard of (and witnessed) many people turn their lives around by getting rid of the negative influences of music.

Well, I won't say more, because I already have too much of religion in this post, but if you want you can PM me.

[Hannes]

This is what I don't like. If you decide NOW that the music is bad for you, why'd you get it in the first place? If you liked it back then, then hold on to it, since you'll probably like it again later.

Weird lyrics have always called me, to listen to them and try to pierce the outer shell and inside the core. Why did he write such lyrics? What's the meaning?

If you think music changes you as a person, you're wrong. It doesn't. It might change your mood, yes, but as a person you stay the same.

[Don Julio Anejo]

This is what I don't like. If you decide NOW that the music is bad for you, why'd you get it in the first place? If you liked it back then, then hold on to it, since you'll probably like it again later.

Weird lyrics have always called me, to listen to them and try to pierce the outer shell and inside the core. Why did he write such lyrics? What's the meaning?

If you think music changes you as a person, you're wrong. It doesn't. It might change your mood, yes, but as a person you stay the same.

Good post. I completely and wholeheartedly agree with it. Except for the lyrics part. It depends on the person. I hate gangsta rap for example... because to put it in my friend's words, "rappers sing about bling, ass and jail." I just don't see anything interesting about it (yeah, I have somewhat weird tastes... I see nothing wrong with lyrics for most Benny Benassi's songs).

[Volug]

I've heard that many times before, though I think that ignoring the lyrics doesn't acually work as much as you think. They lyrics are still there, no matter if you ignore them or not. And I cannot ever ignore those kinds of lyrics. Also I heard that the beat of songs can acually influince people too... how this works, I don't know.

I bought them because I did think they were good music, now I feel like I should get rid of them because of certain things they mean. I'm not un-happy with my desision.

I am not keeping my music, since I will be keeping temptation to break my promise. Soooo... I'm shredding them *BZZZZZZT!*

...Geez thats loud.

[Quincunx]

I like Relient K too. POD is okay. And you actually spelled Relient right. Most people spell it reliant.

They misspelled their own name?

-----

Why do censored "radio edits" of songs grate on the ear while "instrumental" tracks don't? This thread brought the question to mind.

[CatCameBack]

I am not keeping my music, since I will be keeping temptation to break my promise. Soooo... I'm shredding them *BZZZZZZT!*

...Geez thats loud.


Nooooo! Don't shred 'em!

Find a local store and trade them in (usually they're local mom n' pop stores that accept trades). Then you can use the credit to buy Petra or Stryper or whatever it is you're listening to now...

Seriously, the only possible warning I could give here is: Is this a move that comes from a change inside you? Or is it from an external source (new set of friends, youth pastor, whatever)? Is this an action that you want to create a desired result (girl will like me, mom will lay off, friends will think I'm cool, etc.)...because if you are trying for a specific reaction, be prepared for the results, or lack of results.


Other than that, go ahead, it's your stuff.

On that note, anyone wanna buy a Bolt Thrower album...they are crap.

[Crow]

I've heard that many times before, though I think that ignoring the lyrics doesn't acually work as much as you think. They lyrics are still there, no matter if you ignore them or not. And I cannot ever ignore those kinds of lyrics. Also I heard that the beat of songs can acually influince people too... how this works, I don't know.

I bought them because I did think they were good music, now I feel like I should get rid of them because of certain things they mean. I'm not un-happy with my desision.

I am not keeping my music, since I will be keeping temptation to break my promise. Soooo... I'm shredding them *BZZZZZZT!*

...Geez thats loud.

Dude, I'll give your metal a good home. The gym around here feeds off of my cd's (burned copies anyways...becasue they get thrashed) like a starved dog. Donate them as a public service. It will be just like shredding them, in that they are useless afterwards, only after a few people have used them.

Or at least put them in a storage unit. When you are older, you will regret tossing out those "classic" cd's that you had when you were young.

[Raiser Blade]

They misspelled their own name?


Yes thus that is why most people misspell their name by acually spelling the word right.

[banjo1985]

I respect your decision, though I must add to the chorus of people saying that the music hasn't become bad since you bought it. Rock and metal is full of bad words, bad ideas and suicidal talk, stuff like that, but I can't see it ever affecting my mind. And seriously, I listen to some pretty nasty stuff at times....

Either way, I hope it turns out to be a good thing for you, even though I don't really agree with your reasons for doing so. If it betters your life and makes you happier then what the hey, go for it. Oh, and if your throwing out any Rammstein, Otep or Mudvayne cd's, send them my way first :smallamused:

[valadil]

Good luck sticking to your decision. Personally I'd take music over religion, but it's your choice to make and don't let anybody tell you otherwise.

[SurlySeraph]

Why do censored "radio edits" of songs grate on the ear while "instrumental" tracks don't? This thread brought the question to mind.

In an instrumental, every part of the song except the lyrics are there. The music still sounds normal without the lyrics. However, the edits in the lyrics make the song flow less well; you can just tell that it wasn't supposed to sound like that. If they changed a certain note in an instrumental every time it appeared, it would grate on the ear the same way.

[ForzaFiori]

Yes thus that is why most people misspell their name by acually spelling the word right.

yea, it took me forever to realize that.

[Penguinizer]

But :O

Another Holy War by Blind Guardian is great. No need to get rid of the entire album/song.

[landadmiral]

Kudos to you Masato.

I gave up hip hop a long time ago for the same reasons.
and my wife won't let me watch family guy whent he kids are awake

Sacrifice:
In Judaism, a sacrifice is known as a Korban from the Hebrew root karov meaning to "[come] Close [to God]".

English version means "to make sacred"

Basically, we give up 'the natural man' to make ourselves more sacred or closer to God.

[The Orange Zergling]

Well don't destroy them, give them away or sell them. Same result, but the resources didn't go to waste and somebody else gets to listen to it.

[Volug]

That many people would like them? I already considered givening them away... But I'm not for a very good reason.
The reason why, is that it is technically "Bad" when taken a certain way. IF I sell them or give it away, I am providing that "Bad" music to others! It's like drug dealers... Just not as serious. I don't want to do that so... yeah.

I am already seeing the benifts I'm going to be getting though I still can't go into much detail. ALso I'm glad I shredded them since I want to listen to one song again >_<
But it's torn apart... So I can't!:smallbiggrin:

Also another holy war IS good.... But.... just... yeah... Can't say.
I also hate Rap and Hip-Hop... Rap = Retards Attempting Poetry.

[rubakhin]

First of all, this is an extremely weird thread to read after a long day of merrily violating Eastern European obscenity laws. :smalleek: Fortunately I'll be in North America for most of next year where they can't get me.

As a writer and pornographer who takes his art very seriously, I can't say I'm comfortable with this. You're not destroying anything, are you? I wish you wouldn't throw them out or destroy them but give them or sell them. To destroy any kind of art for moral reasons, even on a small scale such as this, is to do a grave thing.

Personally, I tend to pursue what makes me uncomfortable and what impacts me negatively, even screws up my life ... whatever produces the most intense emotions in me is obviously the most fertile ground for art. So I'll follow them to the bitter end. I chase purity, beauty, and spirituality, but I seek it out in what others would call savagery and depravity. Both in life and in music/books/films/photography I keep. (Hopefully everything in my library is legal in this country. :smallconfused:) If you follow anything far enough, you can find the moments of beauty. If I can find that, even in something totally messed up, then I can still believe in the fundamental goodness of men. I'm very much at peace ... but I don't think I could have gone as far as I have if I had cast things away from my life and hadn't put myself in dire straights emotionally/mentally/spiritually at one time or another. Although, you know, I'm starting to think the correct path for an artist is often the diametric opposite of the correct path for any other kind of human being ... well, whatever brings you closer to God.

[Volug]

((Don't mention Religion any more... We might be crossing the line. I'm trying to keep it as low as possible. Though if a MOD doesn't trust this they have premmision to close this as long as I hopefully don't get in to much trouble:smalleek:)

I made my desision. I don't feel comferatable to give them away since I KNOW I will feel really guilty for providing someone else with that material whether they like it or not.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Well, at least it's music. I'm contemplating sacrificing food, Guiness and vodka for several months to get myself 1d Mark II (it's a camera). But I doubt I'll be able to save up 2.3 grand just by not eating :frown:

PS: Рубахин, ты порнограф? )) А на работу принимаеш? %) В качестве актера..

[PhoeKun]

Is that really being fair to everyone who isn't you, though? Which is not to say anybody is going to be the worse for wear if you don't give them your metal collection, but aren't you judging them to be incapable of handling the potential "corruptive" powers of music? Something about that isn't sitting well with me...

edit: I think v is part of it.

[rubakhin]

Regardless of how it would make you feel, that's still pretty immoral, comrade.

Every once in a while, in the news, I see a story about how some old grandmother took a book out of the library, found that it had sex or homosexuality or whatever in it, and refused to return it because they thought it was an unethical book. What do you think of that sort of thing? Not that I'm drawing a comparison here, as your music was your property and the situation is different, I'm just curious.

[Volug]

@^ That is an intirly different situation... It is THEIR book, not the grandmother's. I would retern it and pertend I didn't read it.


Is that really being fair to everyone who isn't you, though? Which is not to say anybody is going to be the worse for wear if you don't give them your metal collection, but aren't you judging them to be incapable of handling the potential "corruptive" powers of music? Something about that isn't sitting well with me...

It's mine to begin with....
And I don't want to live with that guilt that will be with me my WHOLE life.
I don't know why you think this, since it is technically mine and I can acually do what I want with it... (No offense intended)
I know people want it... But I don't want to be the person who provides them with it, it feels uncoforitable.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Let's just say that anytime someone throws out an album by Eminem (or a rock band that also has lots of swearing in it), or blames video games on violence, a psychologist kills himself. Thinks of the cat- oh wait psychologists!

[PhoeKun]

It's mine to begin with....
And I don't want to live with that guilt that will be with me my WHOLE life.
I don't know why you think this, since it is technically mine and I can acually do what I want with it... (No offense intended)
I know people want it... But I don't want to be the person who provides them with it, it feels uncoforitable.

Er... I think you misunderstand me. I'm not talking about you specifically giving away (or not giving away) your cds. They're yours, and you are absolutely free to do what you will with them (although I would like to go on record as agreeing with rubakhin that it's wrong to destroy art) what you will. It's the intellectual concept of comparing music with potentially offensive lyrics/themes to drugs that bothers me.

You're the only one who can decide what you think and how you act, but to that end, I would encourage you to consider how it is that other people thoughts and beliefs fit into your own. Is it that you believe some influences are bad for you personally, or is it that you believe them to be objectively wrong, and people who disagree with that viewpoint are, in some way or another, wrong as well? Don't actually answer that, but do think about it.

[Volug]

((I"m not comparing music to drugs, just the senarios. Sorry for misunderstanding)

I know other people have different belifs. I'm acting on mine however. Some people do not mind that kind of stuff, that doesn't consern me or bother me. Just the facts as they are... I don't want to be the supplyier. I will hate my desision for life if I give it to someone else. As for destroying them... so they don't fall into other peoples hands, since I am still technically the provider. I will feel so... guilty if I give it to anyone else, no matter if they like it or not.

People tend to disagree with me due to their own opinions, I respect that. Though this is mine as well and you can disagree with it and it is no problem. Just respect it and I'm happy:smallsmile:

I have no regrets.

[Fiery Justice]

Art that encourages evil deserves to be destroyed. The reason is that it promotes evil. Promoting evil is as bad (or worse, depending on who you ask) actually doing evil, this is a moral issue. If destroying what is evil is evil, then what kind of control over our lives and (as it inevitably comes up) the society we live in?

I fully approve of Mataso's choice, at least from his perspective he is destroying evil. Not only that but the evil belongs to him, its primary influence is on him, and he is free to purge it as he pleases.

I'm gonna be completely honest, if I thought something had seriously bad influences on myself or my friends. I'd OBLITERATE it. Anything that hurts the people I care about deserves to be destroyed.

[Crow]

@^ That is an intirly different situation... It is THEIR book, not the grandmother's. I would retern it and pertend I didn't read it.



It's mine to begin with....
And I don't want to live with that guilt that will be with me my WHOLE life.
I don't know why you think this, since it is technically mine and I can acually do what I want with it... (No offense intended)
I know people want it... But I don't want to be the person who provides them with it, it feels uncoforitable.


The guilt you will feel is 30 years from now after all this has passed, and your teen is getting into metal, just like I got into my Dad's music at one point. I still remember how cool it was when my dad broke out his vinyls of Black Sabbath, Led Zepplin, and Pink Floyd and we listened to them together.

You may even kick yourself sooner than that when this whole thing passes. Either way, you'll be kicking yourself later on. Trust me. I understand it is "your" music, and yours to do with as you see fit....

{Scrubbed Rolo} =P

[Volug]

@^: Sorry if you feel that way.


Art that encourages evil deserves to be destroyed. The reason is that it promotes evil. Promoting evil is as bad (or worse, depending on who you ask) actually doing evil, this is a moral issue. If destroying what is evil is evil, then what kind of control over our lives and (as it inevitably comes up) the society we live in?

I fully approve of Mataso's choice, at least from his perspective he is destroying evil. Not only that but the evil belongs to him, its primary influence is on him, and he is free to purge it as he pleases.

I'm gonna be completely honest, if I thought something had seriously bad influences on myself or my friends. I'd OBLITERATE it. Anything that hurts the people I care about deserves to be destroyed.

That is kinda a harse way to put it. I manly got rid of it since I don't want to be thinking of bad things. I won't kill or sware if my life depended on it. But I don't want to be thinking about it...

So I got rid of the temptation.

((Seriously... If MODS don't approve of this. Feel free to close it. I stated my stance on the subject and I'm glad there are people helping me out:smallsmile: ))

Once again I do not regret this. Nor will I ever.

[Fiery Justice]

Crow, Hitler Analogies really, really aren't cool.

[Volug]

My "Flame war" sense are tingling. Even if it's not going to happen, I got out what I needed and there is no more use in this thread.

I'm going to see if a MOD can close it since I don't want a flame war or anything else will go on. Don't feel confident the next few posts will be "Polite":smallfrown:
No offense guys, I just got done saying everything I needed to. Direct yourself to previous posts

[averagejoe]

To destroy any kind of art for moral reasons, even on a small scale such as this, is to do a grave thing.

Hmm... that's actually a very good point. I know I've probably destroyed a CD or two in my time, but that was more for the removal of extraneous items in my life, and I never even thought about it on those terms. Echh, well, that's a bit disturbing.

[Ego Slayer]

Masato, I'm sure they're watching the thread with narrowed eyes waiting for lines to be seriously crossed. =P

We has intelligent debate.

EDIT (Masato) - Come now. We can discuss this like the civilized people we are, right?


Art that encourages evil deserves to be destroyed.
"Evil" is a matter of opinion, obviously. If you sold a CD which conflicted with whatever beliefs, I don't think you're encouraging it. Whoever listens to it next is going to make the same kind of intelligent decision on whether it conflicts with that they believe. You're not going to protect or change people by keeping them from things you believe are evil. They're inevitably going to have different opinions that you.

So, I hope that opinion is confined to your personal life, for whatever you think will make you a better person, and not that you think the statement should be applied to the rest of society.

[Raiser Blade]

((I"m not comparing music to drugs, just the senarios. Sorry for misunderstanding)

I know other people have different belifs. I'm acting on mine however. Some people do not mind that kind of stuff, that doesn't consern me or bother me. Just the facts as they are... I don't want to be the supplyier. I will hate my desision for life if I give it to someone else. As for destroying them... so they don't fall into other peoples hands, since I am still technically the provider. I will feel so... guilty if I give it to anyone else, no matter if they like it or not.

People tend to disagree with me due to their own opinions, I respect that. Though this is mine as well and you can disagree with it and it is no problem. Just respect it and I'm happy:smallsmile:

I have no regrets.

Funny i have another friend who did the same thing for the same reason. Kudos to you Masato!

[Catch]

Art that encourages evil deserves to be destroyed. The reason is that it promotes evil. Promoting evil is as bad (or worse, depending on who you ask) actually doing evil, this is a moral issue. If destroying what is evil is evil, then what kind of control over our lives and (as it inevitably comes up) the society we live in?

I fully approve of Mataso's choice, at least from his perspective he is destroying evil. Not only that but the evil belongs to him, its primary influence is on him, and he is free to purge it as he pleases.

I'm gonna be completely honest, if I thought something had seriously bad influences on myself or my friends. I'd OBLITERATE it. Anything that hurts the people I care about deserves to be destroyed.


Define "evil." Make sure it's a completely objective definition that everyone agrees with wholeheartedly.

About fifty years ago, some folks got together and said rock and roll was evil. Before that, it was the blues, and years before that, jazz music was considered obscene. And far, far before that, classical music that didn't follow the traditional ways of composition was taboo. Considering that the world hasn't gone to hell in a handbasket in the past century or two--like folks said it would--I'm relatively comfortable saying that there was nothing really wrong with any of it in the first place. Jazz is considered mild and innocuous--it's played in elevators. What's seen as wholesome today was outrageous in the past yet times change and people grow more tolerant.

Hopefully.

[Fiery Justice]

I wouldn't sell something that conflicted with my beliefs, nor would I buy it (not even to burn it later. Completely pointless). I think that anything that has a strong negative effect should be destroyed or done away with. On a personal and societal level. Its worth noting that I would not carry out... forceful (against others will) action against societal evil unless I felt that the evil were sufficiently great (like if say, you decided it was a good idea to spread pamphlets about how child rape is all cool and great and stuff, then I'd totally assault you and burn your wares. Nothing personal.).

Personally, I don't think all that much art encourages evil. I know of art that does, yes, but not that much. And it most of the time does not do so at a level where I would take forceful exception. (The forceful exception would be, say, child pornography or something at that level. Which I have little doubt would really piss off all of you as well.)

My definition of evil is very, very religious and so totally not discussable on this forum its not even funny. But from a secular point of you, I'll define evil as, "Something that harms someone else." To have it universally agreed upon would require that I have, "Something that harms someone else without their consent."

[Raistlin1040]

Warning: This post contains strong opinions.

I respect your desicion, but honestly, I don't agree with it or understand it at all. Take the Beatles for example. John Lennon, at least swore quite a bit. The Beatles all were heavy drug abusers and I wouldn't be suprised if they were alcoholics either. That doesn't really matter. I'm not going to grab the White Album and start a bonfire with it.

I also enjoy bands like Metallica, Guns N' Roses, and Iron Maiden. All bands with a lot of profanity. I see no reason to destroy my copy of Powerslave or Appetite for Destruction because they contain profanity. I mean seriously, if you heard a man swear on the street, would you walk up to him, slap him, and tell him he's a terrible person? I hope not. But it seems to me, that's what you're doing. You are taking some of your favorite music, and destroying it because you feel morally obligated. And you refuse to give it away for fear of letting it corrupt others.

If you look deep enough, you'll find flaws with every band on the earth. Yes, even Christian rock. But that doesn't mean you have to launch an attack on their music. Cursing, drinking, doing drugs, breaking laws, and other things deemed bad are totally things you can say "I don't like". But you can't get rid of your favorite music because of those flaws. And you sure as hell shouldn't shred them. People. Have. Flaws. Deal with it. I'm not really religious. But I have Christian friends who enjoy the song Number of the Beast. Does that make them Satanic, evil, or morally wrong? No. It makes them teenagers who like music. Personally, I think that you are wrong. But if you think that destroying a Blind Guardian CD will make you a better person, then by all means, go ahead.

[rubakhin]

Гулё: Да, Я работаю фотограф. Мальчика, которая всегда играла ету поль - друг ... наркоман, проститутка, сумасшедший, пострадавший, погибший. Он был обречен. Фотография, вместо надгробна могила. Вечная память героям.

Только красота не упселат спасти ...

[PhoeKun]

I love Cyrillic. I just wish I could, you know, read it. :smallredface:

[Amiria]

But speaking in another language/alphabet to say things that aren't allowed by the board rules isn't good. But I have no idea what he said there ... could be a recipe for chocolate chip cookies.

[Fiery Justice]

Literal Translation from Here (http://translation2.paralink.com/):

Rumble: Yes, I work the photographer. The boy which always played ??? ???? - the friend... The addict, the prostitute, the madman who has injured, the victim. It has been doomed. A photo, instead of ????????? a tomb. Eternal memory to heroes.

Only the beauty not ??????? to rescue...

[rubakhin]

*kaff* Sorry, I was replying to Julio, who asked me a question as an aside in our great powerful just and free mother tongue (which I am rapidly forgetting, God help me :smalleek:). I replied:

Yeah, I work as the photographer. The boy who always played that role - a friend ... a druggie, prostitute, he who suffered, he who went mad, he who was lost. He was doomed. Photographs, instead of a gravestone. Eternal memory to the fallen heroes.

Only beauty doesn't manage to save ...

[Don Julio Anejo]

*kaff* Sorry, I was replying to Julio, who asked me a question as an aside in our great powerful just and free mother tongue (which I am rapidly forgetting, God help me :smalleek:). I replied:

Yeah, I work as the photographer. The boy who always played that role - a friend ... a druggie, prostitute, he who suffered, he who went mad, he who was lost. He was doomed. Photographs, instead of a gravestone. Eternal memory to the fallen heroes.

Only beauty doesn't manage to save ...
Okay, I didn't really understand the post, whether in Russian or English :frown: Translit? By the way, I was making a joke about you working as a pornographer, which is what you said in a previous post somewhere.

PS: what kind of photography do you do? I'm a photojournalist (a bit).

[Catch]

Personally, I don't think all that much art encourages evil. I know of art that does, yes, but not that much. And it most of the time does not do so at a level where I would take forceful exception. (The forceful exception would be, say, child pornography or something at that level. Which I have little doubt would really piss off all of you as well.)

My definition of evil is very, very religious and so totally not discussable on this forum its not even funny. But from a secular point of you, I'll define evil as, "Something that harms someone else." To have it universally agreed upon would require that I have, "Something that harms someone else without their consent."

Outside of religious definition, it's basically impossible to prove what exactly is obscene. The US Supreme Court couldn't even do it. Evil, though, that's an interesting word to use against art. I think it's very difficult, if impossible to call art "evil." Artwork that physically harms someone against their will isn't art, it's assault or murder or rape. I think we both can agree that artistic license doesn't extend to hurting others. It does, however, cover content that people might find objectionable or inappropriate for all ages, which I'm also all for.

Had I any young children, I wouldn't be blasting metal around my kids anymore than I'd take them to see a bloody or racy movie--because they're not equipped to handle or understand the content. You could even say that subjecting them to certain themes might damage their development. With age though, people gain both better understanding of the world as they know it and the right to make their own decisions--the right to make choices that may harm them. It's the difference between "evil" and "inappropriate," really. I really can't think of any "evil" music, but there's certainly content that isn't particularly appropriate for certain people. That music and art certainly has a right to exist, though, whether or not everyone likes it.

[rubakhin]

Bleh. Is it just my histrionics or does my Russian totally suck now? I forgot it when I came to America, I had to relearn it somewhat late in life. It's simultaneously my first and third language ... never really forgave myself for forgetting it in the first place. :smallannoyed:

Well, like I said - pornography. Avant garde stuff, like Slava Mogutin ... kind of testing the boundaries between porn and art. I end up photographing all these really young guys, just barely kids, who I'm in love with (or not love exactly) and then they overdose or something like six weeks later.

[Fiery Justice]

Right to exist? Its art. It doesn't have rights. Its a possession, and a possession that has no feelings at that. Its not like we are kicking puppies here.

There is some stuff out there that is seriously, honestly mentally bad for you. I know people who, quiet honestly, are much the better for rejecting certain kinds of music/art because it was very, very bad for them. If they destroyed it because they didn't want to risk giving it to anyone and that person suffering the same problems, thats not evil, thats good.

Its a positive motive, a positive result, and no one suffers. Except the art, and if your telling me that because something is "art" it has some sacred status that elevates it above anything else, then I'm afraid I don't understand.

When a man demolishes his house to build a new one is he doing evil? When he replaces a broken window? When he gets rid of a nonfunctioning instrument? Then why should something different apply to art?

We restrict people and force them to do the above occasionally in my country (US of A), because in spite of the fact that everyone believes in the right to privately control those things, because when it detracts from the quality of life of others it is no longer cool. I don't disagree with that principle.

[Catch]

Right to exist? Its art. It doesn't have rights. Its a possession, and a possession that has no feelings at that. Its not like we are kicking puppies here.

There is some stuff out there that is seriously, honestly mentally bad for you. I know people who, quiet honestly, are much the better for rejecting certain kinds of music/art because it was very, very bad for them. If they destroyed it because they didn't want to risk giving it to anyone and that person suffering the same problems, thats not evil, thats good.

Its a positive motive, a positive result, and no one suffers. Except the art, and if your telling me that because something is "art" it has some sacred status that elevates it above anything else, then I'm afraid I don't understand.

When a man demolishes his house to build a new one is he doing evil? When he replaces a broken window? When he gets rid of a nonfunctioning instrument? Then why should something different apply to art?

I think we're misunderstanding each other. I'm not contending that people shouldn't be able to destroy their own music or artwork. It's sad that they feel the need to erase its existence simply because they object to it--someone else could have enjoyed it, perhaps. I'm saying that people don't have the right to dictate the artistic choices of others based on personal beliefs, as you'll see below.



We restrict people and force them to do the above occasionally in my country (US of A), because in spite of the fact that everyone believes in the right to privately control those things, because when it detracts from the quality of life of others it is no longer cool. I don't disagree with that principle.

I disagree with the principle that one person or minority group's opinion should take precedence over the collective views of the majority. You may think that certain music I listen to is harmful to me. I don't. Legal adults have the prerogative to make their own decisions, even if others consider disagree, and even if they're not doing themselves any favors. In spite of the fact that some people think they're doing others a favor, it all comes down to the condescending ideal of censorship: "If I don't like it, you shouldn't be allowed to have it." You have the right to choose what you partake in, isn't that enough?

[Ego Slayer]

Right to exist? Its art. It doesn't have rights. Its a possession, and a possession that has no feelings at that. Its not like we are kicking puppies here.
Regarding art in general, it has a right to exist, no more or less than each of us have the right to have an opinion, and the right to express an opinion. Whether the society as a whole accepts or rejects it does not diminish the right to express an opinion, emotion, or whatever else the bizarre mind can imagine. If there is a song which strongly disagrees with, say, <insert often debated topic here> it has the right to exist because the person who wrote it has the right to the opinion, and to express it. Whether said song gets radio play, is, of course, where we draw lines as to what is generally accepted as in/appropriate.

If you feel the need to destroy/remove it from your life, that is your personal choice.

[rubakhin]

Except the art, and if your telling me that because something is "art" it has some sacred status that elevates it above anything else, then I'm afraid I don't understand.


Actually, that's exactly what I'm telling you. In my eyes all art has an inviolable right to exist, like a human being.

People have the right to personally reject art, but I worry about the sort of attitude that destroys it. Even if just one copy, it's still book burning on a very small scale. It's fine if you want to get rid of your copy of a book or CD you don't agree with, but it's not fine if you want all copies to be incinerated forever, which is the logical conclusion of that stance, more or less.

[averagejoe]

kind of testing the boundaries between porn and art.

Put a vase in it. Then it's always art. :smallbiggrin: (Sorry, couldn't resist.)


There is some stuff out there that is seriously, honestly mentally bad for you. I know people who, quiet honestly, are much the better for rejecting certain kinds of music/art because it was very, very bad for them. If they destroyed it because they didn't want to risk giving it to anyone and that person suffering the same problems, thats not evil, thats good.

Yes, but that's for each person to decide for themselves. It isn't up to you, or anyone else, to give out unsolicited "protection," because you feel other people can't "handle it." Adults are allowed to buy cigarettes and fried foods and Dizney movies (buh-zing) even though such things are bad for them; that doesn't give you, or anyone else the right, to try and "protect" them by removing such harmful objects. I'll make my own decisions. I do risk choosing wrong, but I'm willing to take that risk.

[Jamin]

You should not shred the CDs you should melt them:smallwink: It looks so cool.
I did the same thing I time back where I got rid of all the bad books and Cds that where in our house and good riddance to bad media.

[Fiery Justice]

Okay. No. Not all things have a right not to burst into flames. Art can be destroyed. Sometimes its good to destroy art. Art is not sacred. I can't agree with that. Its not part of my moral system, my politics, or my idel philosophy. It has no objective basis (the very word art being subjective), and it puts a level of sacredness I rest only with human beings, both in the now and for all of the future to come, and God. Nothing else means anything to me, nothing else is sacred.

This argument is over. We can't agree on base line thesis, you are all clearly politically liberal. And I'm an authoritarian. This goes no where.

[Catch]

Okay. No. Not all things have a right not to burst into flames. Art can be destroyed. Sometimes its good to destroy art. Art is not sacred. I can't agree with that. Its not part of my moral system, my politics, or my idel philosophy. It has no objective basis (the very word art being subjective), and it puts a level of sacredness I rest only with human beings, both in the now and for all of the future to come, and God. Nothing else means anything to me, nothing else is sacred.

This argument is over. We can't agree on base line thesis, you are all clearly politically liberal. And I'm an authoritarian. This goes no where.

Please don't tell me where my politics lie. Not only is it presumptuous, it's against forum rules. Washing your hands of the argument is certainly your prerogative, though.

As to the question of objectivity, isn't your moral system subjective? In fact, all moral systems are subjective, which makes absolutist statements based on subjectivity subjective themselves. Politics and morality aside, the fact remains that in the United States--and the rest of the world, for the most part--people have the right to choose--art, music, fashion, food and yes, even beliefs. Despite the fact that yours may conflict with others', the right to choose still remains, therefore so does art. If someone wants to enjoy that art, they can. You're under no obligation to do so yourself, but you are obligated to let them.

[Fiery Justice]

No. Its not. My morality system is objectively true, it just takes the situation into account, thats not subjectivity (who is seeing doesn't change it) though. If I thought my system subjective, I would be a very, very different person (and, you know, on your side.). As I said before, our baseline assumptions do not match up. Therefore, this is an irreconciable difference, and cannot be fixed without one of us changing our whole world view, which cannot be done on a forum which inhibits talk of religion and politics.

[Catch]

No. Its not. My morality system is objectively true, it just takes the situation into account, thats not subjectivity (who is seeing doesn't change it) though. If I thought my system subjective, I would be a very, very different person (and, you know, on your side.). As I said before, our baseline assumptions do not match up. Therefore, this is an irreconciable difference, and cannot be fixed without one of us changing our whole world view, which cannot be done on a forum which inhibits talk of religion and politics.

Morality can't be objectively true because you can't quantify morality. There's always a grey area, there's always a situation that the rules don't adequately cover, whether we're talking about law, religion or simple rules. Furthermore, I'm not particularly comfortable with the idea of "sides" here. Morality--or discussion, for that matter--shouldn't be a "you vs. me" matter, that only breeds hostility and indignation. It's possible to consider someone else's opinion without changing your whole worldview and it's possible--suggested, even--to have a polite disagreement without someone being forced to change their mind.

Anyway, this discussion has gotten way off-topic and has strayed towards the the waters of forbidden topics. PM me if you'd like to continue, my box is always open and I'm not averse to discussing religion/politics on friendly terms.

[ray53208]

my two cents (because i just LOVE being flamed):
1. i dont care what you do for your religion, so long as you dont do it to me. also, please, dont try and get me to do it too.
2. i personally believe that burning books, art, music, ect, is not a good thing. but if you believe differently then see above (number 1).
3. no thought, story, image, song, book, ect has any more power over you than you give it. so, if youre taking the time to burn (or whatever) your cds then (from MY p.o.v.) you have already given them power over you; the act only gives them more power.

"To suppress a truth is to give it force beyond endurance."

"I desire mercy, not sacrifice."

but, ultimately, i dont care. burn it all if you want. its your money and your match. that is all.

[Crow]

I have to agree with #3. Strongly. Nothing can refute that.

[Volug]

If you don't care why you post?

Response to #3: If you use the stuff.... They definatly have ALOT more "power over you". I think that it will have minimal "power over you" if you can cast it aside and forget about it. In fact, if you use it, it makes you think that you are the one in charge and that it can't influince you. That is true to some degree, since I KNOW and it WILL influince your thoughts. So it does have a hold on you to some degree. Which is the main reason I got rid of it.
Also another thing that makes NO SENSE is.... How can it get more power if I ultimatly get rid of it from my life? It is gone and it is not coming back and I'll do what most humans do and forget about it... I wouldn't call that having "Power over me". Since I just forgot about it and left it for dead.


also no flaming... This is going to be a flame war >_< I can feel it. So please go over your posts before posting since this is really strong opinions.

[Catch]

3. no thought, story, image, song, book, ect has any more power over you than you give it. so, if youre taking the time to burn (or whatever) your cds then (from MY p.o.v.) you have already given them power over you; the act only gives them more power.

Absolutely. If you don't agree with something, don't partake in it. Simple.


If you don't care why you post?

Response to #3: If you use the stuff.... They definatly have ALOT more "power over you". I think that it will have minimal "power over you" if you can cast it aside and forget about it. In fact, if you use it, it makes you think that you are the one in charge and that it can't influince you. That is true to some degree, since I KNOW and it WILL influince your thoughts. So it does have a hold on you to some degree. Which is the main reason I got rid of it.
Also another thing that makes NO SENSE is.... How can it get more power if I ultimatly get rid of it from my life? It is gone and it is not coming back and I'll do what most humans do and forget about it... I wouldn't call that having "Power over me". Since I just forgot about it and left it for dead.

I think Ray's point was that if you simply wanted to listen to other music, you wouldn't be so hung up on what to do with your old music. Sell it, give it away, put it in a box on your shelf, it shouldn't matter what the final fat is. Unless you have something invested in it, that is. You seem to be really caught up in the content of your music, so much so that you feel compelled to destroy it. Is doing so a metaphor for destroying the thoughts or feelings associated with that music?

I can see how that might be cathartic for someone who's been tormented over personal issues of morality. It's not wrong per se, but you should understand that you're ascribing a sense of condemnation, guilt or shame to music. You're choosing to feel bad about it, letting you beat yourself up about it. If you want to listen to other things, that's fine, but remember that the feelings are yours to create--and deal with. Ray's right, things don't have power, you do. Don't give that away.

[Volug]

>_<
I'm not beating myself up and I think it's the best desision I've ever made!!!

I only shredded them since I found out the meaning to the songs and regretably decided I had to get rid of them. I'm glad I did since I'm not thinking ill of others as much as normal for some reason... Weather it be because of the music or not it all ends up to be the same thing.

I'm glad I got rid of it and don't regret it! How many times do I have to say that. I'm happy with my desision and I'm happy now.

[SDF]

Destroying it seems rather silly to me. Though, I already know who I am and I'm not afraid to expose myself to certain things, because I know they can't make me do something I don't want to.



I only shredded them since I found out the meaning to the songs and regretably decided I had to get rid of them. I'm glad I did since I'm not thinking ill of others as much as normal for some reason... Weather it be because of the music or not it all ends up to be the same thing.

I'm glad I got rid of it and don't regret it! How many times do I have to say that. I'm happy with my desision and I'm happy now.

Wait, what? :smallconfused:

[Ego Slayer]

I'm glad I got rid of it and don't regret it! How many times do I have to say that. I'm happy with my desision and I'm happy now.
We understand that you can do whatever you please, but we still like arguing about the topic in general, not specifically what you did, methinks.

Does this mean we can give you new, good music to fill the space? :smallwink:

[Catch]

>_<
I'm not beating myself up and I think it's the best desision I've ever made!!!

I only shredded them since I found out the meaning to the songs and regretably decided I had to get rid of them. I'm glad I did since I'm not thinking ill of others as much as normal for some reason... Weather it be because of the music or not it all ends up to be the same thing.

I'm glad I got rid of it and don't regret it! How many times do I have to say that. I'm happy with my desision and I'm happy now.

I'm not really implying that you do--or should--feel bad about your decision. It's yours to make and if it makes you feel better, that's good. What I am saying, though, is that feeling like you have to get rid of something, that's a sort of compulsion. It's one thing to say "I don't like this song, I'm not going to listen to it" and another to feel obligated to get rid of something out of guilt. The latter isn't necessarily bad, not if you're happy in the end, but it illustrates the point that Ray made about things having the power that you give them. You choose how you feel, good or bad.

[commander43]

Yeah....I can't stand music that has a message I don't agree with, unless it's obviously tongue in cheek or sarcastic. But....considering my political leanings, most political musicians are on my side (just the way music worked out being, I suppose). So I don't really limit myself at all.

In regards to your destruction of your CDs, I can't really get behind your viewpoint because of our apparently differing views on religion, etc.

Also, on the subject of Disturbed, you mentioned the song Violence Fetish, which is off their first album. I like Disturbed alot, but I have learned that their first album is ridiculous, not that good, and should not really be taken seriously.

[bluewind95]

I think that burning them or shredding them psychologically counts as "I have triumphed over you." I think it was the right choice if it was done because it could affect you.

[Crow]

And what does the OP do when he hears that music playing somewhere he happens to be? Does he leave so as not to hear it?

[bluewind95]

It's not his music. He doesn't need to "triumph" over it.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

I find the idea of not listening to music because its singer disagrees with you nigh incomprehensible; even when listening to musicians of your own religion, it's highly doubtful you'll be in universal agreement with their moral/socio-political views. For instance, the Exploited believe Sid Viscious to be innocent, while I am pretty sure he was not. I have my opinion and respect that of others. While music that is obviously and seriously hate speech is a different matter, but I saw none of that in the music expressed. Of course, getting rid of it is your own decision and opinion, so I do not fault your decision. However, I assume you posted this because you wanted discussion (as, indeed, it seems rather strange just to announce this to people in case they wondered "Has anyone taken a moral stance against their music colelction recently," and expect no reply), so I'm stating my opinion on the matter.
As for bad languange, I'm of the opinion no such thing exists. Your choice profanity is no more or less offensive than words it is by definition or common association a synonym of. If "I don't give a ****," and "I don't care," have the same meaning, I cannot comprehend why one would be seen as offensive. The intent behind them, as in racial slurs, might be, and I could see deific invocations as offensive to the religious, but it seems few words themselves have any reason to be offensive. Essentially, if they have the same meaning, and the meaning is not offensive, why is one of the words offensive?

[Extra_Crispy]

I find the idea of not listening to music because its singer disagrees with you nigh incomprehensible; even when listening to musicians of your own religion, it's highly doubtful you'll be in universal agreement with their moral/socio-political views. For instance, the Exploited believe Sid Viscious to be innocent, while I am pretty sure he was not. I have my opinion and respect that of others. While music that is obviously and seriously hate speech is a different matter, but I saw none of that in the music expressed. Of course, getting rid of it is your own decision and opinion, so I do not fault your decision. However, I assume you posted this because you wanted discussion (as, indeed, it seems rather strange just to announce this to people in case they wondered "Has anyone taken a moral stance against their music colelction recently," and expect no reply), so I'm stating my opinion on the matter.
As for bad languange, I'm of the opinion no such thing exists. Your choice profanity is no more or less offensive than words it is by definition or common association a synonym of. If "I don't give a ****," and "I don't care," have the same meaning, I cannot comprehend why one would be seen as offensive. The intent behind them, as in racial slurs, might be, and I could see deific invocations as offensive to the religious, but it seems few words themselves have any reason to be offensive. Essentially, if they have the same meaning, and the meaning is not offensive, why is one of the words offensive?

I agree, to me offensive language in and of itself is not offensive it is how you use it. If you use it as a slur against someone then it is offensive. Thus MOST music I listen to would fall into the unoffensive even if every other word is a swear word. And yes I listen to heavy metal, hard rock, and alternative. I agree with many of the posts as to why are you destroying them instead of selling them to a store or something. You dont want to give the corrupt(ing) music to others? If they want it they will just buy another CD at the store, I am sure there are more there. If you are doing it to make yourself feel better, then shred another one for me. After all it is your property and frankly I dont really care what you do with your property, you know that is why it is "yours". I also support your decision and for none of the previous reasons listed (I am agnostic and enjoy many "inappropriate" heavy metal songs), I support your decision because you are a person and are free to choose what to listen to and to destroy your own property as long as it does not harm anyone else.

With all the reasons why you are doing it forgoten that is all you are doing is destroying your own property. With that said if you were going to destroy say all rock, or all the works of a rock band, or all the lyrics you found offensive then I would have a problem. It is not your place to decide what I should or should not listen to no matter how offensive it may be. You are NOT doing that so no problem and I am having trouble seeing how the subject go so blown out of proportion and now has people talking about moral issues of censorship, what is the meaning of art and is it sacred, and what is inappropriate to listen to.

This whole thing was/is just a person destroying his own personal CD's because he found them offensive. Good for him, its his decision, next subject please.

[Shadow of the Sun]

I have to say that I respect you for doing this, although I personally wouldn't myself.

Whether that's because I listen to music with a message, but you can't understand the lyrics anyway or not is a moot point.

Music isn't, for me, a purely lyrical thing. I'm more about the melody, the chords, the timbre...everything that makes it music. I'm more likely to compliment a band's singer about how sweet and pure his or her voice sounds than what they actually have to say.

[Volug]

I'm not really implying that you do--or should--feel bad about your decision. It's yours to make and if it makes you feel better, that's good. What I am saying, though, is that feeling like you have to get rid of something, that's a sort of compulsion. It's one thing to say "I don't like this song, I'm not going to listen to it" and another to feel obligated to get rid of something out of guilt. The latter isn't necessarily bad, not if you're happy in the end, but it illustrates the point that Ray made about things having the power that you give them. You choose how you feel, good or bad.

*slaps head*

I would be repeating myself if I responded but oh well.

It makes absolutly no sense that they have more power over me if I get rid of them. If they somehow magically do, it's gone and their "power" is useless! Use some logic! Also my reason at first wasn't get rid of them to be bad, it was because of something I learned. That made me go through my music and take out the ones I don't need.
That stuff doesn't make any sense to me what so ever. I say if you acually listening to anything (Be it good or bad) it has more "Power over you" then if you have the guts to get rid of it.

One thing however was that they DID have "power over me" since I noticed a HUGE change of thought patterns since I got rid of them. I'm less tempted to sware accidently for one thing.

This is HIGHLY off topic at some parts. I've said this 5000 times but, if you have a question about my desision, direct yourself to one of my posts in this thread.
I'm not saying to stop posting completly, just please be carefull with what you say... REALLY careful.

[Catch]

*slaps head*

I would be repeating myself if I responded but oh well.

It makes absolutly no sense that they have more power over me if I get rid of them. If they somehow magically do, it's gone and their "power" is useless! Use some logic! Also my reason at first wasn't get rid of them to be bad, it was because of something I learned. That made me go through my music and take out the ones I don't need.
That stuff doesn't make any sense to me what so ever. I say if you acually listening to anything (Be it good or bad) it has more "Power over you" then if you have the guts to get rid of it.

One thing however was that they DID have "power over me" since I noticed a HUGE change of thought patterns since I got rid of them. I'm less tempted to sware accidently for one thing.

I think you're missing the point--and getting a wee bit testy while you're at it. Asserting that music you've discarded has still power over you wasn't my intention, not quite. Instead, I'm suggesting that feeling the urge to destroy something, to erase it completely from your life, that's a clear indication of ascribing power to things. If you hadn't invested some amount of emotional energy or psychological significance in your music, it wouldn't be such a big deal and you could have simply thrown it out without putting much thought to it. It's clear that you have, though. You've indicated that this was a big decision for you, and one that was especially difficult. I'm not accusing you of anything, don't mistake me, but I am saying that this is clearly a case where you've deposited a lot of power--over your emotions and your actions--into a thing. If ridding yourself of it helps you and extinguishes what's influenced you before, all the better.

[Volug]

I think you're missing the point--and getting a wee bit testy while you're at it. Asserting that music you've discarded has still power over you wasn't my intention, not quite. Instead, I'm suggesting that feeling the urge to destroy something, to erase it completely from your life, that's a clear indication of ascribing power to things. If you hadn't invested some amount of emotional energy or psychological significance in your music, it wouldn't be such a big deal and you could have simply thrown it out without putting much thought to it. It's clear that you have, though. You've indicated that this was a big decision for you, and one that was especially difficult. I'm not accusing you of anything, don't mistake me, but I am saying that this is clearly a case where you've deposited a lot of power--over your emotions and your actions--into a thing. If ridding yourself of it helps you and extinguishes what's influenced you before, all the better.

Acually I think your not getting what I'm saying. Right when I saw that this was bad I threw it out. I'll keep this in short terms

And this even makes less sense! How can it gain even more power if I take it from my life?!??!?

It applies RELIGIOUSLY!! There I said it! It would have more "power over me" if I continued to listen to it. And if what you said was true, my music would be haunting my life and making me feel regretfull. That is not true.
It did, and now it doesn't. I'm not going to respond to anything else.

oh yes... By saying some of these things you are REALLY hurting me. In strange ways but it applies to my belifs and I can't stand to responde to anything anymore. I wouldn't call it flaming since my belifs are a little different then others.

[Catch]

And this even makes less sense! How can it gain even more power if I take it from my life?!??!?

I'm not sure why you're so hung up on this, especially considering that's something I have never said. I'm not sure how to make that any clearer, other than stating it explicitly. If you want to extract that meaning from my posts, you're welcome to do so, but remember that those words came from you, not me. Anyway, the reason your music doesn't haunt you is because it's gone. Any significance you've applied to it went with it on the way to the trashcan. I've never argued that something you've rid yourself of still controls you, only that it did in the first place. There's nothing more to it than that, and if this decision has helped you, then it's a good thing overall.

[Volug]

Instead, I'm suggesting that feeling the urge to destroy something, to erase it completely from your life, that's a clear indication of ascribing power to things.

So I lied, this is my last post.

It did have power on me I'll give you that.

In fact I'm not even going to look at this thread anymore, since alot of these posts really.... Hurt... In strange ways however. So they were most likely un-intentional and I forgive them. I have big opinions on some things and I shouldn't be talking about them so much. I'm out and gone and not coming back into this thread.

*Teleports away to SMBG to give people hugs*

[Crow]

I am just really curious what he is going to do if he happens to be somewhere where they play that music by chance....

[ufo]

I am just really curious what he is going to do if he happens to be somewhere where they play that music by chance....

If he has the CDs/files around, there's a fair chance he's going to hear them repeatedly, while if it's someplace else, they most likely don't repeat the number, but rather put a new one on. Otherwise, I'd be a boring disco :smallconfused: .

[Spiryt]

Well, it's definetly dificult topic.

On the one hand, you just destroyed (If I unterstood well) a lot of great music.


On the other though, I also probably couldn't listen to things that hit my ideals e.c. However, I think that I can call myself "open minded", or rather I don't have any really strong politics, so I really can't listen to nationalist/fascist stuff and also religious songs. I can get well with most other things.

Anyway I think that what you did is quite natural, and we all did it in some way.

I remember few things I was listening when I was younger, and although i still like it, I find it little "emo" now, and don't listen to it too much.
Someone else could probably find something he listened to once indeed against his current ideals.

So IMO this process was just much more violent in your instance.

Anyway, the only thing that really bothers me are bands you rejected... :smalleek:
From what you wrote, I though that you are talking about Dimmu Borgir, Mayhem, Moonspell, something generally satanistic/pagan. I understand that such stuff is controversial.

But "Another Holy War" and Manowar?:smalleek:

What's wrong with them?

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

Although, if you can take Black Metal seriously, you're giving it far more power than it deserves. I mean, have you heard how Shagrath sings? He's, like, sillier sounding than GWAR. He just sounds likea depressive Robert Plant with a lot of phlegm.