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Crucius
2020-09-19, 07:50 PM
An imp can do polymorph and invisibility. I'm reading that as abilities and not as spellcasting. Am I correct in that?

This is for items that require attunement by a spellcaster and the imp being a chainlock familiar.

Elbeyon
2020-09-19, 07:55 PM
An imp is not a spellcaster. It has magical abilities but not spells

Edit: I could see a houserule to allow the imp to use the item depending on the item.

Unoriginal
2020-09-19, 08:11 PM
An imp can do polymorph and invisibility. I'm reading that as abilities and not as spellcasting. Am I correct in that?

This is for items that require attunement by a spellcaster and the imp being a chainlock familiar.

A NPC is only a spellcaster if they have the Spellcasting ability.

JackPhoenix
2020-09-19, 08:56 PM
A NPC is only a spellcaster if they have the Spellcasting ability.

Racial casting is enough for PCs, so Innate Spellcasting (which is a different thing from regular Spellcasting) should be enough for NPCs too.

JNAProductions
2020-09-19, 09:11 PM
An imp can do polymorph and invisibility. I'm reading that as abilities and not as spellcasting. Am I correct in that?

This is for items that require attunement by a spellcaster and the imp being a chainlock familiar.

Ask your DM.

Are you the DM? Then ask yourself if attuning to the item will make the game more or less fun for you and your players, while also considering the consequences of what else the imp could attune to.

Greywander
2020-09-19, 09:47 PM
Racial casting is enough for PCs, so Innate Spellcasting (which is a different thing from regular Spellcasting) should be enough for NPCs too.
Innate Spellcasting is a trait that some monsters/NPCs have. Imps are not one of them. (Unicorns have innate spellcasting, for example. Point is, just because a creature has supernatural abilities doesn't make them spellcasters. They would need either the Spellcasting trait or the Innate Spellcasting trait, and imps have neither.)

You could easily homebrew an imp spellcaster, or just slap some class levels on an imp. I'm curious if that would make sense for the lore, though. It seems that a devil's abilities are determined by their rank/form (and imps are pretty low in the hierarchy), but they might still be able to study wizardry or even gain clerical spellcasting from an archfiend or evil deity. About they only one they couldn't do is sorcery, since that is innate, and would thus need to be "built in" to their devil rank/form. That said, I could totally see a "fiendish bloodline" subclass that any fiend could potentially manifest as sorcery, even if most do not.

Composer99
2020-09-19, 10:50 PM
An imp can do polymorph and invisibility. I'm reading that as abilities and not as spellcasting. Am I correct in that?

This is for items that require attunement by a spellcaster and the imp being a chainlock familiar.

You are correct.

As a contrast, look at the tiefling, whose Infernal Legacy explicitly allows it to cast spells.

tsotate
2020-09-20, 01:37 AM
I think the relevant question is not whether an imp is a spellcaster (yes), it's whether a familiar has attunement slots (no).

Elbeyon
2020-09-20, 01:42 AM
I think the relevant question is not whether an imp is a spellcaster (yes), it's whether a familiar has attunement slots (no).Why do you think an imp is a spellcaster?

Unoriginal
2020-09-20, 04:22 AM
I think the relevant question is not whether an imp is a spellcaster (yes), it's whether a familiar has attunement slots (no).

Other way around. Imps are not spellcasters (as a default at least), but every single creature has attunement slots (which isn't the same as saying they have the awarness to do so).



You could easily homebrew an imp spellcaster, or just slap some class levels on an imp. I'm curious if that would make sense for the lore, though. It seems that a devil's abilities are determined by their rank/form (and imps are pretty low in the hierarchy), but they might still be able to study wizardry or even gain clerical spellcasting from an archfiend or evil deity.

Devils are still capable of learning, so in principle one could study wizardry and become more powerful that way. However an imp with that kind of capacities would likely be given a promotion to a greater Devil form.




About they only one they couldn't do is sorcery, since that is innate, and would thus need to be "built in" to their devil rank/form. That said, I could totally see a "fiendish bloodline" subclass that any fiend could potentially manifest as sorcery, even if most do not.

That is an interesting question. Each Devil is made from a mortal's soul, and sometime the soul is transformed into a Devil without going through the "get plunged in the Styx and loses all your personality except your defining evil traits" part of the process (usually as part of a deal with an Archdevil). So it could be argued that a Sorcerer to whom this happens could conserve their powers, especially if they're the kind who got their sorcery by their soul being touched/altered in the first place.

The "become a devil but keep your memories" may also be another way for a Devil to have wizard powers (or any other capacities that can be learned, from Bardic music to a Fighter's techniques).

Chronos
2020-09-20, 07:55 AM
Were I DMing, I think I would rule that an imp could attune to something whose attunement requirement was specifically "able to cast Invisibility", but not "is a spellcaster" or any other requirement. Whether there is any item that requires "able to cast Invisibility", I know not.

MinotaurWarrior
2020-09-21, 05:23 AM
It's not a spellcaster and those aren't even spells. They can't be counterspelled or dispelled any more than you can counterspell a Druid using wildshape or a gnome using fade away (or a gnome Druid using both).

Quietus
2020-09-21, 07:25 AM
The key thing to look for in a creature's stat block is the phrase, "The X casts...". In the case of the Imp, at no point does the stat block say that it casts polymorph or invisibility. It "magically turns invisible", and "can use its action to polymorph".

Compare this to a Barlgura - which has explicit, "innate spellcasting". I've tried to find an example of a creature that has an ability reading "The X can cast <spell>" that isn't part of an explicit "innate spellcasting" ability, but if you were to find a creature that did, that would also count as a spellcaster.

Joe the Rat
2020-09-21, 07:49 AM
The Oni gives you another example.

It has a magical shapechange ability (listed under Actions... they are really all over the place on where to put the innate shapechange trick on statblocks), which is separate from its innate spellcasting ability (can cast spells).

But the real key is italics. If a word isn't italicized in a statblock, it is referring to a type of effect or condition, not the spell of the same name.

KorvinStarmast
2020-09-21, 08:27 AM
The Oni gives you another example.

It has a magical shapechange ability (listed under Actions... they are really all over the place on where to put the innate shapechange trick on statblocks), which is separate from its innate spellcasting ability (can cast spells).

But the real key is italics. If a word isn't italicized in a statblock, it is referring to a type of effect or condition, not the spell of the same name. This.
1. Imp is not a spellcaster. It has a number of magical abilities, but no "Innate Spellcasting" block, or "Spellcasting" block.

2. There is no entry for the Imp that says "The imp's innate spellcasting ability is Charisma (spell save DC 12, +4 to hit with spell attacks) like the Efreeti:

Innate Spellcasting. The efreeti’s innate spellcasting ability is Charisma (spell save DC 15, +7 to hit with spell attacks). It can innately cast the following spells, requiring no material components:
At will: detect magic
3/day: enlarge/reduce, tongues
1/day each: conjure elemental (fire elemental only), gaseous form, invisibility, major image, plane shift,
wall of fire

nor does it have a Spellcasting block like a Cult Fanatic:

Spellcasting. The fanatic is a 4th-level spellcaster. Its spellcasting ability is Wisdom (spell
save DC 11, +3 to hit with spell attacks). The fanatic has the following cleric spells prepared:
Cantrips (at will): light, sacred flame, thaumaturgy
1st level (4 slots): command, inflict wounds, shield of faith
2nd level (3 slots): hold person, spiritual weapon
(Both of the above examples are from the 5.1 SRD and reflect what is in the MM.

Gignere
2020-09-21, 08:01 PM
Don’t bother with wand of fireball, just have the imp use wand of magic missiles. Haha that’s my guess on the magic item In question.