Best Heavy Combat Party Composition

[Albert]

Hello,
I'm wondering what the most powerful 4 man party composition would be for a heavy combat campaign. Without multiclassing I'm thinking:

Oath of Vengeance Paladin - Aura, Tankiness and single target boss killing machine. His nova is crazy and he's not as squishy as a rogue.

Bear Totem Barbarian - Slab of HP that refuses to die. With so much HP and firepower the barbarian/paladin can form a powerful duo that is hard for enemies to stop.

Life Cleric - All manner of buffs and heals to keep the party in fighting shape. This combined with the Paladin's Aura should allow the front line to shrug off saving throws and withstand incoming fire.

Draconic Sorcerer - nuclear launch detected. Simply blast the enemy to pieces with a dizzying array of fireworks.


The main problem with this party I think is that it is long rest dependent and might suffer from a lack of ranged damage outside the Sorcerer. Perhaps a Fighter Battlemaster would fit in somewhere for the versatility and reliability? Or maybe even a Moon Druid instead of Barbarian?



Or maybe the best party would just be a bunch of ranged characters who can kite endlessly. Anyhow, what are other peoples' thoughts?

[AttilatheYeon]

Hello,
I'm wondering what the most powerful 4 man party composition would be for a heavy combat campaign. Without multiclassing I'm thinking:

Oath of Vengeance Paladin - Aura, Tankiness and single target boss killing machine. His nova is crazy and he's not as squishy as a rogue.

Bear Totem Barbarian - Slab of HP that refuses to die. With so much HP and firepower the barbarian/paladin can form a powerful duo that is hard for enemies to stop.

Life Cleric - All manner of buffs and heals to keep the party in fighting shape. This combined with the Paladin's Aura should allow the front line to shrug off saving throws and withstand incoming fire.

Draconic Sorcerer - nuclear launch detected. Simply blast the enemy to pieces with a dizzying array of fireworks.


The main problem with this party I think is that it is long rest dependent and might suffer from a lack of ranged damage outside the Sorcerer. Perhaps a Fighter Battlemaster would fit in somewhere for the versatility and reliability? Or maybe even a Moon Druid instead of Barbarian?



Or maybe the best party would just be a bunch of ranged characters who can kite endlessly. Anyhow, what are other peoples' thoughts?

You should have some control in here. Change the pally to Conquest. Or have the sorc go control. Or both.

[Droppeddead]

You could throw in a Battlesmith instead of either barba or pally. You would get an extra tank from the battlesmith's steel defender and lots of cool buffs and perks from the artificers making magic items.

Depending on the level Moon druids can also be very good for pure tanking. And healing afterwards.

[Bobthewizard]

Any paladin is fine. Agree with AttilatheYeon that Conquest would be best. If you get better control from the other classes, vengeance might be better for nova damage.

I'd consider shepherd druid instead of the barbarian. Conjure animals is a better tank and better damage, plus the druid is more versatile otherwise. A one level Life cleric dip to add the bonus to goodberry would make for great healing.

Then I'd change the dragon sorcerer to an evocation wizard. Sculpt spells is more important than the extra damage from the draconic sorcerer and the rest of wizard is more versatile. Or a two level evocation wizard dip on a dragon sorcerer is fantastic. I wouldn't want to go through a difficult combat campaign without rope trick and leomunds tiny hut.

With the druid helping with healing, you could change the cleric to trickery to help the party with stealth when needed. They also get better 4th level domain spells. You could even trade this for a bard if you wanted less tanking and healing but better control.

Again, your suggestions are fine. There are lots of ways to approach this.

[diplomancer]

It really depends on what you mean. Is it an endless sequence of Arena fights, with the terrain changing more or less randomly, in a Combat as Sport campaign? That party is good enough. Is it a combat heavy campaign but where the players have opportunity to prepare the battlefield to their advantage? That party is sorely lacking in scouting capability, as well as other ways of preparing the battlefield.

[J-H]

Swap out sorc for a wizard for more utility. Make the wizard an abjurer for durability.
The Paladin can take Magic Initiate for Eldritch Blast to pick up some ranged options, or he can just carry a ranged weapon.

A bard or druid can contribute battlefield control and healing, just not as well as the cleric. A bard+druid combo might end up competitive with a cleric+wizard combo, and would offer more versatility.

[LordNibbler]

Turn that Paladin into a Dex Paladin (any oath) with 1-2 levels of Hexblade. While you lose 1 AC and 1-2 hp, you gain a stealthy scout with a great ranged attack on top of all the normal Paladin features.

[KorvinStarmast]

You should have some control in here. Change the pally to Conquest. Or have the sorc go control. Or both. Make the Sorc specialize on control spells, keep the cleric as is or go with Knowledge for those moments when you need a skill monkey.

[OldTrees1]

I think an Ancients Paladin would be better suited. A heavy combat campaign will want to nuke its own location at times. Just last session the group got surrounded by a swarm. A "safe" AOE would hit 25% of them but nuking their own location would hit all of the enemies and the party would be mostly scathed.

Moon Druid vs Bear Totem Barbarian depends on character level. Resistance is better at higher levels. Free hp is better at low levels.

[Eldariel]

Something like Lore Bard, Diviner Wizard, Arcana Cleric, Shepherd Druid would be pretty unbeatable though you could argue few of those (Chronurgist is obviously generally better than Diviner in spite of the edgecases where you'd rather have a Diviner). There's a lot of value in a second Lore Bard since they go so well together but giving up a whole full casting list for a spells known caster is a pretty huge loss far as dealing with different kinds of opponents goes. Having all the lists available guarantees solution to whatever you might encounter.


I think an Ancients Paladin would be better suited. A heavy combat campaign will want to nuke its own location at times. Just last session the group got surrounded by a swarm. A "safe" AOE would hit 25% of them but nuking their own location would hit all of the enemies and the party would be mostly scathed.

Moon Druid vs Bear Totem Barbarian depends on character level. Resistance is better at higher levels. Free hp is better at low levels.

High level Moon Druid brings ~16-32 additional HP sponges on demand plus the ability to summon Giant Apes and such down the line though; it's hard for mere resistance to come anywhere near to matching up. Of course, Shepherd just beats up Moon Druid superhard on Tier 2+ but Moon Druid does absolutely crush Tier 1 unlike few other things.

[Waazraath]

Hello,
I'm wondering what the most powerful 4 man party composition would be for a heavy combat campaign. Without multiclassing I'm thinking:

Oath of Vengeance Paladin - Aura, Tankiness and single target boss killing machine. His nova is crazy and he's not as squishy as a rogue.

Bear Totem Barbarian - Slab of HP that refuses to die. With so much HP and firepower the barbarian/paladin can form a powerful duo that is hard for enemies to stop.

Life Cleric - All manner of buffs and heals to keep the party in fighting shape. This combined with the Paladin's Aura should allow the front line to shrug off saving throws and withstand incoming fire.

Draconic Sorcerer - nuclear launch detected. Simply blast the enemy to pieces with a dizzying array of fireworks.


The main problem with this party I think is that it is long rest dependent and might suffer from a lack of ranged damage outside the Sorcerer. Perhaps a Fighter Battlemaster would fit in somewhere for the versatility and reliability? Or maybe even a Moon Druid instead of Barbarian?



Or maybe the best party would just be a bunch of ranged characters who can kite endlessly. Anyhow, what are other peoples' thoughts?

Make sure you get a reliable pool of temp hp for the entire party. With this setup: grab the inspiring leader feat. Without feats (you don't do multiclassing so could be) I'd change one of these chars to e.g. a glamour bard or shepard druid.

[OgataiKhan]

Depends on the level at which you are operating, but for a generic level 1-20 campaign?

I'd do it like this.

You need a Paladin for Aura of Protection, and Conquest is the best subclass as it provides crowd control on top of the Paladin's native damage and survivability. Hexblade 1 dip to save a couple ASIs. Fallen Aasimar gives you an extra frighten effect while Yuan-ti gives you more survivability.

Shepherd Druid is the highest DPR class in the game from level 5 onwards barring Wish or True Polymorph shenanigans, so it's an autoinclude but it will be a bit useless levels 1-4. It will more than make up for it later on. Mark of Sentinel Human is the best race for the build.

Wizards are usually considered the best class in the game for a reason, and Chronurgy is the best Wizard subclass. Add in a Knowledge Cleric 1 dip if you think you can get your hands on a Mizzium Apparatus or an Artificer 1 dip if you don't. I like Vedalken for the race.

The last slot is more flexible. We have the damage, we have the control, we have Wis, Int, and Cha covered for skills. You could put in a Hexblade 2/Eloquence Bard X for a more controlly party or a Sorlock for buffing and more damage.

[Frogreaver]

Charisma Conquest Paladin (control, healing, buffing, tanking, burst damage)

Sharpshooter Battlemaster fighter (Ranged Damage Specialist)

Divination Wizard (control, counterspell, able to provide bursts of ranged damage as needed, buffing)

Fire Cleric (healing, aoe damage, buffing)

If I had a 5th slot IÂ’d bring along a bard.

Choosing which casters to bring along was difficult. I choose wizard because he has the most versatile list and has the best chance of having the right spell for a particular situation.

Cleric was chosen next. Having a full caster healer is important. ThereÂ’s alotnof options for that though - bard, cleric, Druid, divine soul sorc. I stuck with cleric For a number of reasons, but one of the most important was the large number of prepared spells I could bring.

[Icewind]

Assuming equal play in all 4 tiers, my ideal single-classed 4-character party for a combat-focused game would be as follows:

A Divine Soul Sorcerer, focusing primarily on control and utility with bits of healing/resurrection/damage as necessary (spells like Fireball and Animate Objects are just so good in the right circumstances, even if they’re not your main focus). Can cover the critical parts of both arcane and divine casters, albeit you lose out on a lot of the “not essential but still very nice to have” things. On the other hand, you have access to things like Twinned Polymorph, which is just going to steamroll most encounters in Tier 2. Eventually gets 9th-level magic and gets to do all sorts of shenanigans using Wish, whether that be free Resurrections, Clones, Simulacrums, etc.

A Battle Master Fighter, using hand crossbows and acting as a mid-liner. The main ranged dps, capable of big burst with Action Surge and is ready to step into melee and launch point-blank bolts with Crossbow Expert if the party manages to paralyze or prone someone, or if the team just needs more frontline. Also works as a sniper in a pinch - if you really need the long range, nothing’s stopping you from swapping to a heavy crossbow or a longbow with Sharpshooter.

A Conquest Paladin, frightening enemies (and reducing their speed to 0) and striking them with a polearm from out of the effective range of anything that doesn’t have reach itself. Aura of Protection is unbelievably strong, smites are brutal for taking down single targets who you can get into melee range of, and the Paladin can help the Sorcerer cover some of the territory that a Cleric would normally fill but the Sorcerer lacks the spells known for.

The 4th slot is honestly pretty flexible, but I’d go with a Circle of the Moon Druid. The Paladin can ride you into battle once you’ve wildshaped, you can step in and tank a huge amount of damage in your animal forms - especially from things immune to being frightened - and you’ve still got all the capabilities of a full-caster - you even get to maintain concentration while wildshaped, as long as you don’t fail your Con saves (which, when you have a Paladin Aura, is very hard to do). Also it’s only going to be for a very brief time period (because the campaign is probably almost over at that point), but at level 20 you are almost invincible, because you can turn into a full hp Elemental every round as a bonus action.

The party’s main strategy is to focus on lockdown and abusing control (especially frightening) effects, their range advantage, and the Moon Druid’s ability to tank a lot of damage for free every short rest. The party has pretty solid consistent single-target damage (especially when you factor in Conjured Animals and Animated Objects), good saving throws if they group up, a lot of potential nova, and the ability to heal/resurrect people if something does end up going horribly wrong - which honestly shouldn’t really happen in the first place, but y’know, contingencies.

[MaxWilson]

Or maybe the best party would just be a bunch of ranged characters who can kite endlessly. Anyhow, what are other peoples' thoughts?

Kiting is not only lots of fun, it's also pretty cheap to add to any party, even a melee-heavy party. I highly recommend trying an all-Mobile-or-Cunning-Action party so you can see what it's like. Mobile is weak against mobs, so you still need to add some crowd control (Hypnotic Pattern, Fireball, etc.), but that's cheap to add too. And you need a bit of healing, especially for condition mitigation (petrification). But, that still gives you lots of freedom to add whatever you want.

E.g. Goblin Skulker Moon Druid as a tank/summoner/healer, Mobile Bardlock (Hexblade 1, Lore X) with Aura of Vitality as ranged firepower/healer/crowd controller, two Mobile whatever-you-wants, e.g. that Paladin and Barbarian you were eyeing in the OP.

[Eldariel]

Kiting is not only lots of fun, it's also pretty cheap to add to any party, even a melee-heavy party. I highly recommend trying an all-Mobile-or-Cunning-Action party so you can see what it's like. Mobile is weak against mobs, so you still need to add some crowd control (Hypnotic Pattern, Fireball, etc.), but that's cheap to add too. And you need a bit of healing, especially for condition mitigation (petrification). But, that still gives you lots of freedom to add whatever you want.

E.g. Goblin Skulker Moon Druid as a tank/summoner/healer, Mobile Bardlock (Hexblade 1, Lore X) with Aura of Vitality as ranged firepower/healer/crowd controller, two Mobile whatever-you-wants, e.g. that Paladin and Barbarian you were eyeing in the OP.

In a heavy-caster (or all-caster as I'd say is the best answer to virtually all these questions since non-casters just don't add anything casters can't do almost as well while also casting game-changing spells) party, this gets enhanced by CC. Vanilla kiting is strong (and Phantom Steed is a great kiting tool; 4-man party can effortlessly be kept horseback from level 5 onwards all day) but kiting + CC means virtually anything without at the very least 320' attacks can get kited to death under many circumstances. And even something as simple as Expeditious Retreat Warlock/Wizard/Sorc is surprisingly adept at this, particularly combined with Longstrider in a dedicated party if desired. This is a "toolbox kiting" approach where you can be reasonably good at kiting when it's desirable at the cost of few 1st level slots and then completely switch out those resources to something else (though there's a lot to be said for a Mobile caster as well; it's not bad on any of the caster classes really).

[Nhorianscum]

Ignoring "evilish" classes.

Tier 1 Cleric/Moon Druid x4

Tier 2 Sorcerer x4

Tier 3 & 4 Paladin and 3 fullcasters.

Tier 1 and 2 have um, not remotely balanced classes.

1-20 I'd go Draconic Sorc (It's just the least bad tier 1), Grave Cleric, Moon Druid, Ancients Paladin for preference. Buffer/Blaster build for the sorc, Ride of the valkyries style paladin.

Is it missing wizard? Yes. Wizard just bombs in value as you add more fullcasters. Silmulacrum is nice but the gap between wiz only access and others is only 4 levels.

[Tvtyrant]

Artillery Artificer seems a sure thing, adds a ton of temp HP and buffs as well as AoE against large groups of mooks.

Sorcadin, Wolf Barbarian, and Sentinel Fighter seem like good other three. They buff and support each other, and benefit from staying close together which compliments artificer.

[CTurbo]

Ancients Paladin
Tempest Cleric
Moon Druid
Valor Bard

Lots of spells, lots of weapons, lots of AC, lots of healing, lots of versatility, enough skills, enough stealth, and no real weaknesses.