Character Selection Based on Party Comp (what should I play?)

[CMCC]

So my group is moving on to a follow up campaign to Lost Mine (OotA), and I’m switching from DM to player.

We have a Sorlock, a moon Druid (that plays like a pure caster - rarely wild shapes during battle), and potentially an eloquence bard.

So basically 3 pure casters. I was planning on playing a battle smith/ war wizard melee caster. But now I’m not sure if I need to be the tankiest of tanks or should I just embrace the spell casting and go full caster. Does it even matter?

We’re all starting at lvl 6 from our previous adventure.

[Mutazoia]

Your party would most likely benefit from a martial type, such as a Barbarian who can tank but also dish out some melee damage. All of those casters are going to be in hot water if they get bum-rushed while casting and could use someone to draw the heat as much as possible.

[CMCC]

Yeah that was my initial thought, too. I need to cast them spells though - so we’ll see how this goes.

EDIT: I don’t NEEEEED to cast those spells, but it’s a nice have.

[Frogreaver]

So my group is moving on to a follow up campaign to Lost Mine (OotA), and IÂ’m switching from DM to player.

We have a Sorlock, a moon Druid (that plays like a pure caster - rarely wild shapes during battle), and potentially an eloquence bard.

So basically 3 pure casters. I was planning on playing a battle smith/ war wizard melee caster. But now IÂ’m not sure if I need to be the tankiest of tanks or should I just embrace the spell casting and go full caster. Does it even matter?

WeÂ’re all starting at lvl 6 from our previous adventure.

The game will be best if you play something you find fun.

That said, based on mechanics and party comp my recommendation is a tanky spirit guardians focused cleric. In a party without much of a front line, a cleric with spirit guardians should fulfill that role nicely. (Will draw tons of agro due to aoe damage and slow effect). Also is super effective against enemy bum rushes ;)

[Petrocorus]

Frankly with your party composition, so if you're going Wizard, i would advise a Hobgoblin Iron Wizard (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23837856&postcount=45), maybe with a War Wizard variant.

But you could also go for an EK/ Wizard build (still abjurer or war wizard) to get more HP, fighter stuffs and defence.

Another option is to go cleric. An Arcane frontline cleric (build 4) (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?583957-An-Eclectic-Collection-of-Fun-and-Effective-Builds) for instance, can be very versatile. A Forge or a Tempest Cleric is also very tanky and a good caster.

Does the sorlock gets a lot of single target blast? Because without a martial, you may be lacking in the single target damage department.
Arcane single target damage spell are underwhelming without optimization, and divine spells may be even worse in this regard.

[Darthnazrael]

Any of the tanking subclasses from Xanathar's are a good choice here: Ancestral Guardian Barbarian, Cavalier Fighter, and Conquest Paladin. That last one comes online the latest, so I'd recommend it least of the three since you're literally the *only* frontline, so there'll be no one to pick up the slack before you reach level 7. Whatever class/subclass you go with, a Polearm Master would be a strong route.

[zinycor]

It does seem like your group needs a tank and you want to play a caster....

Conquerir paladin is what you are looking for. It has very good spells, the solid paladin class, and frighten is an amazing status for protecting your party.

[CMCC]

Frankly with your party composition, so if you're going Wizard, i would advise a [Hobgoblin Iron Wizard[/URL], maybe with a War Wizard variant.

But you could also go for an EK/ Wizard build (still abjurer or war wizard) to get more HP, fighter stuffs and defence.

Another option is to go cleric. An for instance, can be very versatile. A Forge or a Tempest Cleric is also very tanky and a good caster.

Does the sorlock gets a lot of single target blast? Because without a martial, you may be lacking in the single target damage department.
Arcane single target damage spell are underwhelming without optimization, and divine spells may be even worse in this regard.

Sorlock is a 5 sorc/ 1 hexblade split right now, so he’s been a mix of control/ AOE caster up to this point. I think when agonizing blast comes online next level he’ll be more of a single target blaster.

I was actually considering that arcana cleric build when cleric was mentioned above. It looks fun.

[Petrocorus]

I was actually considering that arcana cleric build when cleric was mentioned above. It looks fun.

I actually played that one and i liked it. It can be amazing on many aspect, and it's very versatile.

I must say it has 3 little downsides though.

- This on won't be a problem for you, but basically, between level 2 and 5, it feels like you don't have a Domain.

- A big lack of single target damage unless you choose BB and can trigger it. Until higher level, your best single damage spell IIRC is Guiding Bolt.
Multiple targets damage is really fine with GFB, WoRadiance (against mooks, but also mosquitos in ToA), Spirit Guardians, and the likes.

- Lack of attacks at a range over 60 ft. Sacred Flame, Toll the Dead, Hold Person, Blindness, all have a range of 60 ft or less. Magic Missile and Guiding Bolt are the only spell with a better range until Insect Plague. I had to use a crossbow at level 5 some times because of this.

These are not big issues, because you have a party, but if no one in the party can fill them this can become a problem.

[Aussiehams]

Play what you want and hopefully the DM will be kind.
And if not, remind the druid what Moon druid wildshape is for.

[Eldariel]

Honestly, the more casters the better. That's just how the game is designed: the more magical resources, the better off you'll be in prolonged difficult days. Any caster with the ability to function in melee would work fine in here. Quick list of great options:
- Arcana Cleric
- Bladesinger
- Artificer 1 [or Cleric 1 or Fighter 1]/Abjurer (War Wizard is also okay)
- Paladin 2/Sorcerer [or Bard or Wizard, really, but Sorcerer gets Twin Spell, which is nice with Booming Blade]
- Moon Druid #2 who fights in the front
- Shepherd Druid producing a sizable frontline for each fight as necessary
- Swords Bard
- Valor Bard
- Lore Bard picking up BB/GFB and Moderately Armored


Honestly, on this level summoning more than makes up for lacking a character-based frontline. Hell, it's better than that: summons are expendable and appear just where you want them and come with a full caster on top of them. Shepherd Druid is probably the strongest option here but of course, on level 6 any of these characters works (though Arcana Cleric takes two levels to really kick off with Potent Spellcasting + Greenflame Blade/Booming Blade but then it's pretty efficient.

[Man_Over_Game]

I'd just go some kind of Cleric. Forge Cleric would be a nice hybrid of "Pure melee tank" without sacrificing much of the casting specialty of other Cleric builds. It'd also be a good counter to the rest of the party's wishy-washy subterfuge specialties that they're probably inclined towards.

[CMCC]

I'd just go some kind of Cleric. Forge Cleric would be a nice hybrid of "Pure melee tank" without sacrificing much of the casting specialty of other Cleric builds. It'd also be a good counter to the rest of the party's wishy-washy subterfuge specialties that they're probably inclined towards.

Do you multiclass the forge domain for martial weapons or just grab a race that has some decent weapons proficiencies?

[CMCC]

Play what you want and hopefully the DM will be kind.
And if not, remind the druid what Moon druid wildshape is for.

Haha I casually reminded her that she can cast her spike growths and shift into a rhino or polar bear and wreck ****. I think/hope she got the hint.

[Mutazoia]

If you want to be tanky and have some spell casting there are a few options. The two I tend to look at are Paladin/Warlock or Druid (spore)/Monk.

The Spore Druid/Monk combo will give you the most spell casting while allowing you to hold the front line. The minionmancy alone will make holding a choke point easier. Druids can summon, Spore druids can also raise dead, and at mid-levels, create spore zombies as a reaction. Add in the fact that you can use your wild shape to give yourself temp HP, a close-range damage reaction, and extra poison damage to your melee attacks and you start getting pretty vicious. Now factor in the Monk abilities. Unarmored defense means you don't have to worry about armor, even if you wild shape, you get extra damage to your unarmed attacks (a bear is technically unarmed for example) that stacks with the poison damage from your Druid ability.

Sure, you have another Druid in the party, but since he's going pure caster, and you're going melee heavy, you won't be stepping on each others toes.

The Pallock will give you heavy armor and casting from two different classes, but I feel that the overall utility of the Druid/monk (Drunk?) would be more fun...at least for me.

[Petrocorus]

Do you multiclass the forge domain for martial weapons or just grab a race that has some decent weapons proficiencies?

The simplest solution is to go hill dwarf for the warhammer proficiency and the unreduced speed in armor. The ASI fits perfectly, too.
Some other races may work too, like wood elf or hobgoblin, but the hill dwarf is the one with the most synergies.

You can multiclass into fighter for the proficiencies and the Defense FS to be even tankier.

I don't think anyone burns a feat on this.

You can also simply forget it and go to town with handaxes or a mace. After level 5, cantrips will be more or less as good as a weapon attack, even once Divine Strike is accounted for. Sacred Flame and Toll the Dead can be used in melee after all.

[CMCC]

I would almost certainly pick conquest Paladin or sorcadin at this point, but we just lost a Paladin so I’m learning towards front line cleric.

Can’t figure out if I want arcana or tempest. If I could get shocking grasp to work with tempest - I’d prob pick that - more for the fun. Arcana sounds pretty awesome too and amazing at higher levels.

I’m so bad at picking characters!!! So indecisive.

[Petrocorus]

Can’t figure out if I want arcana or tempest.

Do you know to what level the campaign will go up to?
Because i tend to believe that the higher you go, the better Arcane gets compared to Tempest.



If I could get shocking grasp to work with tempest - I’d prob pick that - more for the fun.
To combine with Thunderbold Strike?
Remember you have to use Int or Cha with it.
I actually wonder why there are no more lightning cantrip out there.

[Chugger]

I was thinking Pal or Sorcadin.

If you go Sorcadin, remember, you can be stupid-good-tanky by quicken casting Blade Ward (yes, that stupid cantrip actually has a use) and still use your action to melee twice and maybe smite twice. So if you think you're going to be hit with a lot of melee (maybe you landed Compel Duel on something nasty), quicken blade ward and you're a pseudo barbarian! Sort of.

There are some advantages to going pure Pal, too. The pal's level 5 spell - I'm blanking on the name, but it gives adv on all STs to all allies in a 30' radius and more - is a ridiculously good spell.

[Edea]

So my group is moving on to a follow up campaign to Lost Mine (OotA), and I’m switching from DM to player.

We have a Sorlock, a moon Druid (that plays like a pure caster - rarely wild shapes during battle), and potentially an eloquence bard.

So basically 3 pure casters. I was planning on playing a battle smith/ war wizard melee caster. But now I’m not sure if I need to be the tankiest of tanks or should I just embrace the spell casting and go full caster. Does it even matter?

We’re all starting at lvl 6 from our previous adventure.

Being honest here? No, it probably won't matter. You should go with the battlesmith/war wizard and have fun. If the new DM decides to go Sun Tzu on you for some reason, you've already been the DM for that group, so you can give him some post-game pointers on how to not do that.

BUT, let's assume here that it does matter, just for debate's sake.

Need to know more about the sorlock, particularly his archetypes and level distribution.

You do NOT need a face, at all. Eloquence bards are the faciest faces to ever face, and more importantly aren't lore bards, so no Magical Secrets yet; thus they'll be doing their usual enchantment/heal/buff schtick at 6th level.

Also, the moon druid...he realizes that his archetype is useless if he's just going to cast, and is pretty much built for tanking due to Combat Wild Shape, right? Is it possible to talk with him about choosing a different circle?

[Eldariel]

I would almost certainly pick conquest Paladin or sorcadin at this point, but we just lost a Paladin so I’m learning towards front line cleric.

Can’t figure out if I want arcana or tempest. If I could get shocking grasp to work with tempest - I’d prob pick that - more for the fun. Arcana sounds pretty awesome too and amazing at higher levels.

I’m so bad at picking characters!!! So indecisive.

Both are great. Arcana is better later on and in straight-up fighting post-8 especially: Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade plus Potent Spellcasting is very strong particularly if you pick up Shillelagh through some route - Vuman Arcana Cleric can be hitting at +8 for 1d6+1d8+10 and additional 2d8+10 rider or 1d6+1d8+10 and 1d8+15 to an adjacent enemy. All this while wielding a shield. Though there's an argument to be made for picking up War Caster first [Arcana Cleric makes good use of all the abilities] and maxing out Wis on 12.

While Tempest is more bursty with Smite-like ability to obliterate the opposition few times per short rest. It lacks lightning bolt natively, which rains on its parade but otherwise it's good.

[diplomancer]

A Mark of Warding Dwarf Abjurer (with either a Forge Cleric or an Artificer dip) is very tanky. There is a build suggestion for it by Ludic Savant in the miniguide "multiclassing for wizards" thread.

You can cast your free mage armor on the Druid to encourage him to wildshape (and start your Arcane Ward for the day)

[CMCC]

Do you know to what level the campaign will go up to?
Because i tend to believe that the higher you go, the better Arcane gets compared to Tempest.


To combine with Thunderbold Strike?
Remember you have to use Int or Cha with it.
I actually wonder why there are no more lightning cantrip out there.

It’s OotA and we’re starting at level 6. So I have no idea but if 1-15 is the normal progression I don’t think 17 is out of the question for that sweet arcana capstone.

Shocking grasp would be for thunderbolt strike, yeah. But the int/cha piece is throwing me off. I can’t quite get it to work.

The party Druid loves throwing up spike growth so for me to blast enemies back into it would be effective and fun.

[diplomancer]

It’s OotA and we’re starting at level 6. So I have no idea but if 1-15 is the normal progression I don’t think 17 is out of the question for that sweet arcana capstone.

Shocking grasp would be for thunderbolt strike, yeah. But the int/cha piece is throwing me off. I can’t quite get it to work.

The party Druid loves throwing up spike growth so for me to blast enemies back into it would be effective and fun.

Starting at 6th level is the ideal point for a 1/X caster multiclass. The one level where it really hurts being one spell level behind is level 5.

[CMCC]

Being honest here? No, it probably won't matter. You should go with the battlesmith/war wizard and have fun. If the new DM decides to go Sun Tzu on you for some reason, you've already been the DM for that group, so you can give him some post-game pointers on how to not do that.

BUT, let's assume here that it does matter, just for debate's sake.

Need to know more about the sorlock, particularly his archetypes and level distribution.

You do NOT need a face, at all. Eloquence bards are the faciest faces to ever face, and more importantly aren't lore bards, so no Magical Secrets yet; thus they'll be doing their usual enchantment/heal/buff schtick at 6th level.

Also, the moon druid...he realizes that his archetype is useless if he's just going to cast, and is pretty much built for tanking due to Combat Wild Shape, right? Is it possible to talk with him about choosing a different circle?

I might have to have that talk. It’s basically spike growths and ice knife all day everyday.

[CMCC]

You can cast your free mage armor on the Druid to encourage him to wildshape (and start your Arcane Ward for the day)

Love it haha. Just a subtle push

[CMCC]

Need to know more about the sorlock, particularly his archetypes and level distribution.



Sorlock is a 5 sorc/ 1 hexblade split right now, so he’s been a mix of control/ AOE caster up to this point. I think when agonizing blast comes online next level he’ll be more of a single target blaster.

I think he’s going to continue to play as a mix of the three: control/aoe blaster/ single target damage. It’s yet to be seen though, so just a guess based on previous play style.

[Man_Over_Game]

I might have to have that talk. It’s basically spike growths and ice knife all day everyday.

Sounds like he wants to be a Circle of the Land: Arctic build. It literally gets Spike Growth as a featured spell, and additional spell slots as a primary feature.

It's a rather special choice for area-focused casting, as "Ice" themed spells have the most number of lasting area effects that don't require Concentration (and instead usually last only a turn), which allows a player to combo area effects.

[Petrocorus]

I might have to have that talk. It’s basically spike growths and ice knife all day everyday.

Or maybe talking to him about rebuilding his character as a land druid (underdark whould fit so well), if he really care more about being mostly a caster.

[CMCC]

Sounds like he wants to be a Circle of the Land: Arctic build. It literally gets Spike Growth as a featured spell, and additional spell slots as a primary feature.



Or maybe talking to him about rebuilding his character as a land druid (underdark whould fit so well), if he really care more about being mostly a caster.

I just had a chat with her. She assured me she likes the wild shape ability, so we shall see how that plays out :)

[Eldariel]

It’s OotA and we’re starting at level 6. So I have no idea but if 1-15 is the normal progression I don’t think 17 is out of the question for that sweet arcana capstone.

Shocking grasp would be for thunderbolt strike, yeah. But the int/cha piece is throwing me off. I can’t quite get it to work.

The party Druid loves throwing up spike growth so for me to blast enemies back into it would be effective and fun.

If that's the case, yeah, go Arcana. All other Clerics fall off down the line but Arcana is a top tier pick even in Tier 4 (though it has the same Tier 3 dip all Clerics do with relatively few incredibly awe-inspiring level 6-8 spells before getting the capstone.

For OotA specifically it might be interesting to actually pick up Chill Touch in addition to BB over GFB as your second Arcane cantrip since Fiends tend to have fire resistance or immunity and unsurprisingly fiends are somewhat central in the adventure. Necrotic would diversify your offensive options (Toll is also good but falls prey to Magic Resistance).

[rlc]

If you can get the druid to tank more, I'd say that you should either go war wizard or ancestral barbarian.
If you can't, cavalier with some spells from racials/feats.

[jaappleton]

FWIW

I've repeatedly asked myself the same question, and made numerous topics on this. "What is this party missing? What should I play?"

And the answer was never anything fun. I've played each and every class in the game, for the record. And I enjoyed them all, some more than others.

But I found that its when I played what I wanted to play, instead of what would fill in a gap, that I was happiest at the table.

[Frogreaver]

FWIW

I've repeatedly asked myself the same question, and made numerous topics on this. "What is this party missing? What should I play?"

And the answer was never anything fun. I've played each and every class in the game, for the record. And I enjoyed them all, some more than others.

But I found that its when I played what I wanted to play, instead of what would fill in a gap, that I was happiest at the table.

Yea, If there’s something you would really love to play then don’t worry about what the party “needs”. The party will be just fine.

But if your not sure what you want to play then at least first consider what characters would synergize well with the party before moving on to the characters that won’t.

[nickl_2000]

Play a Path of the Zealot Barbarian. You have a Druid in the party, so as soon as you hit level 5 you off yourself every night and have the Druid cast Reincarnate every day. Want to mess with your DM? Be a different race every single day.

[CMCC]

Tentatively arcana cleric it is.

Something appeals to me about an adventurer who isn’t smart enough to be a wizard but desperately needs to appease the gods enough to get the wish spell.

That and spirit guardians just seems a must for a lone tank.

The Sorlockadin is prob going to be my backup. Conquest pal/ hexblade/ either shadow or divine soul sorc.

Let’s see if it sticks lol. I’ll prob change my mind tomorrow.

[Blood of Gaea]

I would definitly be looking at an Arcana Cleric or Conquest Paladin here, probably straight classed in either case.

[CMCC]

I would definitly be looking at an Arcana Cleric or Conquest Paladin here, probably straight classed in either case.

Yeah arcana is where I’m at now. I’m gonna be pissed if we don’t hit lvl 17 :)

[Petrocorus]

Yeah arcana is where I’m at now. I’m gonna be pissed if we don’t hit lvl 17 :)

Don't be.

As awesome is Arcane Mastery, Spell Breaker and Potent Spellcasting are already good enough to feel very good about your domain.

And remember the wording of Spell Breaker makes it compatible with Goodberries.

[CMCC]

Don't be.

As awesome is Arcane Mastery, Spell Breaker and Potent Spellcasting are already good enough to feel very good about your domain.

And remember the wording of Spell Breaker makes it compatible with Goodberries.
Oh ****. Good to know.