Best course of action for my Cleric

[Matt4]

Hi everyone!
I'm in the middle of my first ever D&D campaign, we're playing Descent into Avernus and it's a lot of fun :smallsmile:

Right now, we're at lvl 5, halfway to level up, but I wanted to plan ahead so I could manage my resources better.

This is my character as of now:


Qyllian Nìnimien, Lvl. 5 Light Domain Cleric, Wood Elf

STR 14 (+2) - DEX 10 (0) - CON 14 (+2) - INT 8 (-1) - WIS 18 (+2) - CHA 12 (+1)

My cantrips are: Sacred Flame, Toll the Dead, Thaumaturgy, Guidance, and Light.

I'm especially in doubt on what to do once I get to lvl 8, where once again I'm given the choice of either improve my stats or choose a feat. I was thinking of a few possibilities:
Taking the Warcaster feat: the other Cleric in my party took it at level 4 and I like having the chance of using spells for my opportunity attacks. The advantage of Con saving throws could be useful now that I can use Spiritual Guardians too.
Taking the Heavily Armored feat: I could finally use all that Str and go full melee with Spiritual Guardians and Weapons, since my current CA of 15 is making me afraid of exposing myself on the frontlines too much. Requires me of spending a lot of money getting a Plate though.
Taking either Magic Initiate or Spell Sniper: I wanted to try some nice combo of Booming Blade and Spiritual Weapons, but I'm a bit unsure on how the mechanic would work. Also, for all the classes I could get it from (Wizard, Warlock, Sorcer) my character would have low spell casting ability (Int or Cha).
Taking Elemental Adept (Fire): just so I could deal with devils and demons of the sort without having to worry about my fire spells being useless.

And of course, I could just max my Wis and gain all the bonuses that come with this choice, but that would be a bit..boring? But tempting nevertheless.

Sorry for the long post, but I'm really torn on what to do! :smalleek:

[nickl_2000]

Let me ask you this, what is your role in the party and what are the other PCs in the party? When you are in combat, what are you typically doing and what would you like to do?

[Frogreaver]

Just to make sure I read this right. You have 15 ac as a cleric?

[Keravath]

You have a difficult choice.

If you had started with 14 dex and 10 strength then you could be wearing your medium armor and be only 1AC behind where you would be with heavy armor. Unfortunately, you don't.

However, with a 14 strength, the Heavily Armored feat will bump your strength to 15 AND allow you to wear heavy armor like Plate mail (which you now have the strength to wear properly). BUT .. do you have access to plate armor? Do you have access to any heavy armor wherever you are in your current campaign?

If you CAN get plate armor then I would say the heavily armored feat is actually worth considering in your case (in most cases it usually isn't a good choice in my opinion). In your case, your AC would go from 15 in medium armor and a shield (though if you had half-plate this would at least be 17, scale/breastplate would be at least 16) up to 20 (or 19 in splint). However, if the only armor you have managed to get in 5 levels is still just a chain shirt, I'm not sure you will have access to the heavy armor types that would actually help - splint or plate. An increase of AC from 15 to 20 however could be worthwhile.

An additional consideration however is that using spells like Spirit Guardians in melee will require you to make concentration saving throws whenever you are hit. If you are in melee, you WILL be hit. Some clerics put up spirit guardians and then just take the dodge action to minimize their chances of being hit - this works better with a high AC.

However, for improving your chances to make a concentration check then both war caster and resilient con are useful.

Finally, if you rarely if ever find yourself near melee then increasing your wisdom is always a good idea. Your to hit die rolls and spell DCs all increase. Everything you do, casting spells, turning undead, cantrips ... all get better with higher wisdom. Even skills like perception and insight improve with higher wisdom. So increasing your wisdom is never a bad choice ... but in your case it depends on how often you get pulled into being hit. A 15AC means getting hit a lot and making a lot of concentration saving throws unless you are consistently able to stay away from combat and avoid being targeted.

------

So (just my opinion) :) ... if you can get plate or splint armor then I would seriously consider heavily armored. If you regularly avoid being hit then bump wisdom but don't plan on using spirit guardians in melee too often. If you regularly are holding a weapon and shield while casting spells, get opportunity attacks at least occasionally and DO get hit while concentrating on spells then war caster could be a good choice but I would probably go for one of the other ones first (mostly because if you need warcaster then you are likely in melee and a 15AC is really a bit low to be successfully in melee).

[Matt4]

Let me ask you this, what is your role in the party and what are the other PCs in the party? When you are in combat, what are you typically doing and what would you like to do?

There are other 5 players:
Minotaur Zealot Barbarian
V-Human Rogue/Fighter
Tabaxi Rogue/Bard
Human Light Cleric
Half-Elf Bard/Warlock

I'm usually just behind the Barbarian and the Rogue/Fighter, making sure they don't die (especially the fighter) while also finishing off enemies with Toll the Dead or the occasional fire spell for the tougher ones. The other Cleric and the Rogue/Bard take more of a supporter role, while the Bard/Warlock uses Eldritch Blast. I would like to be more versatile, either improving my damage output or my tankiness.


Just to make sure I read this right. You have 15 ac as a cleric?

:smallfrown: sadly yeah..I have a Chain Shirt + Shield, but having 0 as my Dex modifier was a really bad choice

[Nhorianscum]

Hi everyone!
I'm in the middle of my first ever D&D campaign, we're playing Descent into Avernus and it's a lot of fun :smallsmile:

Right now, we're at lvl 5, halfway to level up, but I wanted to plan ahead so I could manage my resources better.

This is my character as of now:


Qyllian Nìnimien, Lvl. 5 Light Domain Cleric, Wood Elf

STR 14 (+2) - DEX 10 (0) - CON 14 (+2) - INT 8 (-1) - WIS 18 (+2) - CHA 12 (+1)

My cantrips are: Sacred Flame, Toll the Dead, Thaumaturgy, Guidance, and Light.

I'm especially in doubt on what to do once I get to lvl 8, where once again I'm given the choice of either improve my stats or choose a feat. I was thinking of a few possibilities:
Taking the Warcaster feat: the other Cleric in my party took it at level 4 and I like having the chance of using spells for my opportunity attacks. The advantage of Con saving throws could be useful now that I can use Spiritual Guardians too.
Taking the Heavily Armored feat: I could finally use all that Str and go full melee with Spiritual Guardians and Weapons, since my current CA of 15 is making me afraid of exposing myself on the frontlines too much. Requires me of spending a lot of money getting a Plate though.
Taking either Magic Initiate or Spell Sniper: I wanted to try some nice combo of Booming Blade and Spiritual Weapons, but I'm a bit unsure on how the mechanic would work. Also, for all the classes I could get it from (Wizard, Warlock, Sorcer) my character would have low spell casting ability (Int or Cha).
Taking Elemental Adept (Fire): just so I could deal with devils and demons of the sort without having to worry about my fire spells being useless.

And of course, I could just max my Wis and gain all the bonuses that come with this choice, but that would be a bit..boring? But tempting nevertheless.

Sorry for the long post, but I'm really torn on what to do! :smalleek:

Eh, just feel free to pump wis if you dont know what you want. Things that are better than primary stat are generally things we prep from level0.

Adept does not much when you're already capable of radiant damage. Warcaster you lack the AC to really abuse fully. Etc, etc.

That said: Snagging a level in not-cleric at some point for the shield spell and absorb elements would patch your defenses. Sorc gives origin at first level so it's not a bad choice for a 1 level dip if you ever feel like you need that boost in a 1-10 campain.

[sophontteks]

The big problem is you made a typo in your subclass. Your stats scream "life cleric." not "light cleric." Clerics are more or less divided into heavy armor subclasses and medium armor ones.

If possible, you could see if the DM would just let you change to any of the subclasses that come with heavy armor. That would change everything for you.

As a first time player there is nothing wrong with asking to change something on your character.

Outside that. Nothing wrong with less optimal stat line. If you got protection already I'd just focus on what you're good at: supporting and casting from the back line. I'd just raise wisdom to 20. Taking a defensive feat without the intention of trying to frontline isn't a bad idea either though.

Almost all of your suggestions involve you trying to be more of a front-liner, and it'll probably just get you killed. I wouldn't try doing booming blade or spirit guardians too often.

[da newt]

This is your first PC - I'd recommend sweet talking your DM to allow you to change up your ability scores, now that you know better, and go back and rebuild your stats with a 14 Dex. (or different cleric subclass w/ heavy armor prof).

W/ 27 pt buy, you could have started with 12 st, 12+2 dex, 14 con, 8 int, 15+1 wis, 11 cha

If you can do that, then buy half plate (or scale if you are poor), and your AC will be 19 (18), and you'll gain all the other dex benefits.

Then I'd take warcaster as my next ASI.

Spirit guardians / spiritual weapon is a great cleric combo, but without a decent AC and good CON saves it really doesn't hold up nearly as well. Otherwise, I'd adjust playstyle to hang back a bit, stay out of melee and cast. I'd spam SW, and heal, buff or blast as dictated by the situation.

Protection against evil and good, and bless are also very handy.

[Frogreaver]

You chose light cleric. 15 ac is plenty to stand back and throw fireballs especially when you can heal yourself. By level 8 you’ll have plenty of spell slots for fireballs.

The only spells you want to avoid most of the time are spirit guardians and booming blade as they both bring you in a bit too close.

Flaming sphere can make a pretty good single target spell. Bless is always an excellent buff if no one else is casting it.

TLDR - Play like a backline character and you’ll be fine.

[Matt4]

Thanks for all the answers, guys!

Next session I'll try talking with my DM and see if I can fix my stats, but I'll probably just buy a Half-Plate (I'm getting lucky with looting anyway) and maxing up my wisdom (and eventually taking Magic Initiate for Find Familiar, my character really wants one :P)

[Chugger]

Spoiler or possible spoiler below





I forget that level you go to Avernus, but I think it's about where you are now. Your fireballs will be almost useless in hell: almost everything there is immune to fire or resists it. You may want more AC because you're likely going to be on the front line or just behind it to make spirit guardians effective. Radiance of Dawn will work. There will be some instances where fireball will work, but they will be few and far between. You may want heavy armor, if you can get it. Chain is easy - you'd be ac 18.

You get at lvl 8 a bonus to cantrip damage, not melee damage, so you may not want to go green flame blade//booming blade. Something to think about.

[Matt4]

Spoiler or possible spoiler below





I forget that level you go to Avernus, but I think it's about where you are now. Your fireballs will be almost useless in hell: almost everything there is immune to fire or resists it. You may want more AC because you're likely going to be on the front line or just behind it to make spirit guardians effective. Radiance of Dawn will work. There will be some instances where fireball will work, but they will be few and far between. You may want heavy armor, if you can get it. Chain is easy - you'd be ac 18.

You get at lvl 8 a bonus to cantrip damage, not melee damage, so you may not want to go green flame blade//booming blade. Something to think about.

Thanks for the answer!

Yeah, me and my party kinda figured it out that we're heading straight to Hell next, that's why I was thinking about Elemental Adept but it's useless against fire immunity so that's pointless..

I was actually thinking about asking my DM to change domain instead of fixing my stats, since Life Cleric seems more useful with my set of stats and in general in this setting. I also have RP reason to search for a conversion, so I'm preparing my best sweet talk to convince him..let's hope for the best (Although I will miss Warding Flare).

for the Potent Spellcasting thing, actually the problem shouldn't be about melee damage itself, but merely the fact that if I take Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade those wouldn't count as Cleric cantrips for me, so they wouldn't get the bonus =/ (that kinda sucks honestly)

[sophontteks]

Thanks for the answer!

Yeah, me and my party kinda figured it out that we're heading straight to Hell next, that's why I was thinking about Elemental Adept but it's useless against fire immunity so that's pointless..

I was actually thinking about asking my DM to change domain instead of fixing my stats, since Life Cleric seems more useful with my set of stats and in general in this setting. I also have RP reason to search for a conversion, so I'm preparing my best sweet talk to convince him..let's hope for the best (Although I will miss Warding Flare).

for the Potent Spellcasting thing, actually the problem shouldn't be about melee damage itself, but merely the fact that if I take Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade those wouldn't count as Cleric cantrips for me, so they wouldn't get the bonus =/ (that kinda sucks honestly)
I highly recommend this as the solution. You already have a light cleric in your party anyway and your playstyle seems to be more about supporting and healing your party anyway.

Unlike changing your stats this move will distinguish your character from the other cleric.

[Petrocorus]

This is my character as of now:


Qyllian Nìnimien, Lvl. 5 Light Domain Cleric, Wood Elf

STR 14 (+2) - DEX 10 (0) - CON 14 (+2) - INT 8 (-1) - WIS 18 (+2) - CHA 12 (+1)

Others have already adressed it, but may i ask what was your intention when you put 14 in Str and 8 in Dex?
Is this just a rookie mistake, or did you have a plan?



Taking the Warcaster feat: the other Cleric in my party took it at level 4 and I like having the chance of using spells for my opportunity attacks. The advantage of Con saving throws could be useful now that I can use Spiritual Guardians too.

Warcaster is always useful, though at higher level, Res (Con) is better.



Taking the Heavily Armored feat: I could finally use all that Str and go full melee with Spiritual Guardians and Weapons, since my current CA of 15 is making me afraid of exposing myself on the frontlines too much. Requires me of spending a lot of money getting a Plate though.

Already adressed by other posters, sweet talk you DM into letting change your stats or your domain, maybe both to go Arcana domain.
If you perform to get a full rebuild into a Dex build, you may want also to dump Cha to 10 and pump Con to 15 in the eventuality you now or later take Res (Con).

If you rebuild into Life domain, you'll need 15 Str, so you'll need to find some points somewhere. Dump Cha to 10 or Dump Con to 13 and take Res (Con). Dump the Cha if you want to take MI.



Taking either Magic Initiate or Spell Sniper: I wanted to try some nice combo of Booming Blade and Spiritual Weapons, but I'm a bit unsure on how the mechanic would work. Also, for all the classes I could get it from (Wizard, Warlock, Sorcer) my character would have low spell casting ability (Int or Cha).

Spell Sniper will be useless for you, Toll the Dead and Sacred Flame are rather good cantrips with decent damages and good damage type. And don't care for covers.
Their main weakness is their range, but better to just deal with it than lost a feat on a suboptimal (for you) cantrip.

If you go MI, then choose MI (Druid) to get Shillelagh and Goodberries. Goodberries combine very with Life cleric feature (40 HP of healing with it).



Taking Elemental Adept (Fire): just so I could deal with devils and demons of the sort without having to worry about my fire spells being useless.

Useless for you, even if you keep the Light domain.
It does nothing for immunity, only resistance, and OTOH, many of your non-Domain spells and the Light domain's feature do radiant damages. Notably Spirit Guardians and Sacred Flame. Toll the Dead do necrotic dmg, Spiritual Weapon do force dmg. Those are 3 of the 4 best dmg types of the game, (see my sig).




And of course, I could just max my Wis and gain all the bonuses that come with this choice, but that would be a bit..boring? But tempting nevertheless.

Sorry for the long post, but I'm really torn on what to do! :smalleek:

[1Pirate]

Soooo, here’s a couple things, minor spoilers for Avernus:

When you get to Hell, there’s going to be a distinct lack of general stores and your gold is going to become a lot less valuable, so whatever you’re going to buy, best to buy it soon.

You’re only going to get 2 more ASIs, one of which will come at almost the very end of the module. If you’re planning on taking Magic Initiate, you’ll want to buy all the components for Find Familiar right now(and get multiple castings worth) and honestly, you’re going to want to take MI at 8 or you’re not going to have much time to enjoy it(if you’re doing milestones, level 12 comes and goes before you can squeeze in another long rest).

[Matt4]

Others have already adressed it, but may i ask what was your intention when you put 14 in Str and 8 in Dex?
Is this just a rookie mistake, or did you have a plan?


Warcaster is always useful, though at higher level, Res (Con) is better.


Already adressed by other posters, sweet talk you DM into letting change your stats or your domain, maybe both to go Arcana domain.
If you perform to get a full rebuild into a Dex build, you may want also to dump Cha to 10 and pump Con to 15 in the eventuality you now or later take Res (Con).

If you rebuild into Life domain, you'll need 15 Str, so you'll need to find some points somewhere. Dump Cha to 10 or Dump Con to 13 and take Res (Con). Dump the Cha if you want to take MI.


Spell Sniper will be useless for you, Toll the Dead and Sacred Flame are rather good cantrips with decent damages and good damage type. And don't care for covers.
Their main weakness is their range, but better to just deal with it than lost a feat on a suboptimal (for you) cantrip.

If you go MI, then choose MI (Druid) to get Shillelagh and Goodberries. Goodberries combine very with Life cleric feature (40 HP of healing with it).


Useless for you, even if you keep the Light domain.
It does nothing for immunity, only resistance, and OTOH, many of your non-Domain spells and the Light domain's feature do radiant damages. Notably Spirit Guardians and Sacred Flame. Toll the Dead do necrotic dmg, Spiritual Weapon do force dmg. Those are 3 of the 4 best dmg types of the game, (see my sig).

Sorry for the late answer, I've been busy!
It was all a huge rookie mistake, no plan here. The main thing to note is that I got confused with the Clerics from the 3.5 edition of D&D, since this very character was conceived for a campaign using that edition (that never started), so I just assumed every cleric could access heavy armor (so no Dexterity needed) and that I needed Charisma for Turn Undead.

Thanks for all the advice anyway, I managed to convince my DM to let me change my domain to Life (but I had the bad idea of telling him that during esploration, so right now we're in the middle of a dungeon and I'm without any kind of magic..how fun!). Even though I'm actually loving this chance to roleplay my character inner struggle with her faith and the need to find a new way of life (even though I'm hoping on getting my magic back as soon as possible! :P)