Black Widow bumped again

[Kareeah_Indaga]

And it looks like the rest of the MCU movies are getting bumped later too:

Source (https://deadline.com/2020/09/black-widow-jumps-to-summer-2021-spurring-marvel-pics-release-date-shift-west-side-story-delayed-a-year-soul-stays-theatrical-1234582771/)

Can’t say I’m surprised.

[Kitten Champion]

Pretty much what I expected too. Though this does make New Mutants being a full theatrical release all the more of a sore spot.

There's something like a time-table that businesses can at least timidly depend upon for when they'll have an audience. I suspect we'll hear that many of those other December coming releases will be scooched over into mid-to-late 2021 as well.

[Dragonus45]

Well crud, I had hoped they might bite the bullet and put it out but I guess the numbers for the movies that did go on release didn't turn out so great. Still, a streaming release with limited theater options could probably have worked fine. I'd have gone to see it at least.

[137beth]

West Side Story was also delayed a year. That is one of the few movies I am looking forward to seeing in a cinema, so I'm glad it's been delayed to a time when I will be more likely to be able to go safely.

[KillianHawkeye]

They want those cinema dollars, and I don't see myself going to any cinemas for at least another six to nine months. Summer of 2021, MAYBE, but not before that.

[ehsanmaster]

I am really sorry to hear that!
I have been waiting for it! but Summer 2021 is too late :(

[Vinyadan]

In my book, they've been pushing it later since 2015.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_5KgpN38hM&list=PLgPwe2uqxfqh7eoF7NHFy5wm fYq0uIH3c&index=32

[Tyndmyr]

Pretty much what I expected too. Though this does make New Mutants being a full theatrical release all the more of a sore spot.

It kind of sucks. There's really only New Mutants and Tenet in theaters. Sure, some are showing old movies or stuff as well, and that's fine, but new releases are insanely sparse atm. And New Mutants is...not great. It had some ideas that, if pursued, could have become great, but as it stands, the film feels really weak.

Tenet is legit good, though.

[Rogar Demonblud]

It kind of sucks for New Mutants that contracts required the release this year, but I'll be honest, I don't think it would have done well in a normal year with competition either.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

It kind of sucks for New Mutants that contracts required the release this year, but I'll be honest, I don't think it would have done well in a normal year with competition either.

Yeah, from what I’ve read on it basically everything that could have gone wrong for New Mutants did, even before COVID.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Now now, it's not like the studio burned down during filming and none of the cast OD'd of got into car wrecks.

[MikelaC1]

Black Widow seems to get the short end of the stick, each and every time. Not only did she not get a happy ending, like Banner/Hulk, a satisfying conclusion to her life, like Cpt. America, or at least a glorious death scene, like Tony Stark...just a cold, empty, unremembered death; and now her movie gets moved and moved and no doubt moved again.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Now now, it's not like the studio burned down during filming and none of the cast OD'd of got into car wrecks.

This is fair, but having Fox go ‘change it this way! No, change it back! No, go back and do what you were doing in the first place!‘ along with delay, delay, delay for the reshoots and then having everything shuffle over under Disney’s umbrella so any plans for hints for a sequel go swirling down the drain...that can’t have been a productive environment to work in.


Black Widow seems to get the short end of the stick, each and every time. Not only did she not get a happy ending, like Banner/Hulk, a satisfying conclusion to her life, like Cpt. America, or at least a glorious death scene, like Tony Stark...just a cold, empty, unremembered death; and now her movie gets moved and moved and no doubt moved again.

She didn’t even get a nice memorial service; Tony got a whole ceremony and a nice wreath, plus half of Spider-man: Far From Home’s screen time, what did Nat get? A bench, and some moping by her tiny handful of co-workers. Does the Avengers budget not allow for a marker for those killed in the line of duty? :smallyuk:

Worse, it was implied that Nat was still doing things during the Blip, Tony was retired except for the very end, isn’t this backwards?

[oudeis]

Yeah, everyone pretty much agrees that Marvel really mishandled Natasha's death. Personally, I thought Clint should have been the one who made the sacrifice. The character hadn't done much in any of the movies, and it would have made the return of his family more poignant.

[t209]

Yeah, everyone pretty much agrees that Marvel really mishandled Natasha's death. Personally, I thought Clint should have been the one who made the sacrifice.
Well, Clint has been sacrificing himself multiple times in comic.
Basically he’s the Kenny of the Avengers.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I've wondered if part of the reason Natasha got short shrift is that they figured she didn't need attention since she still had a solo movie coming.

[GentlemanVoodoo]

At this point not really caring enough to bother watching it. The movie was a little to late considering that the character was killed off and regarded nothing more as just a plot piece. I'm not really interest to see something that is just Phase 4 movie filler at this point while Marvel is trying to figure out what is the next story. Not trying to deter anyone from watching it but that is about how I regard this movie at this point.

[Ramza00]

I've wondered if part of the reason Natasha got short shrift is that they figured she didn't need attention since she still had a solo movie coming.

I am willing to bet it is more contract stuff (aka the Disney money people) and what the actors and actresses want.

For example Hawkeye is going to be in the Kate Bishop show (new Hawkeye and old Hawkeye) while Scarlett Johansson was nearing the end of her Marvel Contract.

[Rodin]

Yeah, everyone pretty much agrees that Marvel really mishandled Natasha's death. Personally, I thought Clint should have been the one who made the sacrifice. The character hadn't done much in any of the movies, and it would have made the return of his family more poignant.

Black Widow's death worked for me because the whole movie (and Infinity War) were about bringing the character arcs of the original Avengers crew to a close.

For Hawkeye, his story had effectively finished by the start of of Infinity War. He was retired and living happily with his family. When the Snap happened, he became a death seeker, trying to get himself killed while fighting bad guys. He tries to off himself for the Soul Stone because he's suicidal. He has a happy ending available to him - if the Snap is undone, he gets his happy ending.

For Black Widow, her story is hung on the "red in her ledger". She has so much blood in her past that she feels she can never atone. She tries continuing the superhero thing post-Snap, but it's pretty clear she finds it unfulfilling. She sees sacrificing herself to save her best friend (and half the galaxy) as a form of atonement - the only form of atonement possible. There is no other happy ending for her.

Where Marvel screwed up is not giving her equal time at the funeral. Her death was just as important as Tony's, but it was reduced to a footnote. Fix the funeral at the end and I would have no issues.

[Rogar Demonblud]

The problem being if you do that, people are saying good-bye to the character when she has another movie coming. Which is just further proof we should've had a Black Widow movie earlier, probably before Age of Ultron (it would help that movie if people were more familiar with Natasha's history and grokked it when she calls herself a monster).

[Ramza00]

The problem being if you do that, people are saying good-bye to the character when she has another movie coming. Which is just further proof we should've had a Black Widow movie earlier, probably before Age of Ultron (it would help that movie if people were more familiar with Natasha's history and grokked it when she calls herself a monster).

Takes 2 years to make a MCU movie.

2012 was Avengers 1 and 2013 was Iron Man 3 / Thor 2 aka when you could argue for the first time that this thing has staying power for those were the duds* of the MCU at the time yet we still saw success afterwards.

By 2014 we had Guardians of the Galaxy and CA Winter Soldier, demonstrating that this stuff had staying power.

2015 was Age of Ultron.

-----

So what I am saying above it was not obvious from "conservative" money people in Marvel that a Black Widow movie was going to be successful prior to Age of Ultron. By 2014 it would have been obvious but such Black Widow movie would have to take place after AoU for movies take 2 years to make, write, film, etc.

Since the Start of 2014 till Sept 2014 Scarlett Johansson was pregnant with her future daughter. This actually impacted the scenes they could shot with Age of Ultron and it is why Ultron kidnaps Black Widow per part of the movie to take her off the board (in the plot of the movie) while Scarlett had the last few months of her pregnancy and then gave birth.

So maybe it was possible to get a Black Widow movie in 2016 or 2017 (after 2015's AoU) but it would require everyone to work together getting the timing right for Scarlett Jo has a busy filmography and new responsibilities. Much of Scarlet Johansson work 2015 and 2016 was voice over work not acting in person. I expect that stuff is easier to do with being a mother during the first year of the baby's life.

2016 was also CA Civil War and 2018 was Infinity War. So there was a spot to get a Black Widow movie in 2017 but the problem was Scarlett Johansson was filming Ghost in the Shell during that time and that movie came out in 2017.

-----

In sum Black Widow should have came out earlier but you have to make the movie "appealing" to Scarlett Jo for there were other things going on with her life during some of those years. And Marvel Executives who were "conservative" of the MCU future did not feel incredible with Box Office till about 2014, and it literally takes time to create a movie about 2 years. [I]Timing is everything in some ways :smallsigh:

[Rogar Demonblud]

Good point.

In other news, they've cast their Ms Marvel. Iman Vellani. I can't seem to find anything about her oeuvre on-line, so I'm not entirely sure how good the fit is, besides the amount of energy she radiates in the pictures.

[Kitten Champion]

It's nice that they've got someone very close to Kamala's canon age rather than a younger-looking 20-something, but without having seen her anything there's not much to say about it.

Also, they've got Tatiana Maslany for their She-Hulk series -- of which I was unaware until this moment. While I wasn't really into Orphan Black when it was on, I still couldn't help but admire her acting ability in what was a really difficult role... or roles, rather. I'm curious to see how she interprets the character.

[Rodin]

Scarlet Jo stuff

That's a really interesting timeline, thanks for that. It makes me a lot more forgiving of the lack of a Black Widow movie in that period.

That leaves Hulk and Hawkeye, and Hulk had his initial movie before the rights got stuck in limbo. They also had a "team-up" movie that was basically an abridged Planet Hulk with a Thor movie wrapped around it to hide what they'd done.

Hawkeye is the one who got most shafted out of the original Avengers team. He doesn't get a single solo movie and he's entirely absent from Infinity War. I wonder how much of that was timing issues and how much was "bow dude not interesting enough to get butts in seats".

[The Glyphstone]

Black Widow's death worked for me because the whole movie (and Infinity War) were about bringing the character arcs of the original Avengers crew to a close.


At least she got a full character arc. Bruce's entire resolution to his conflict was skimmed over in two lines of dialogue, poor guy.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Renner's busy enough between acting and his band I'm pretty sure scheduling would've been a beast if they'd had any interest in a Hawkeye movie.

[Tyndmyr]

Hawkeye is the one who got most shafted out of the original Avengers team.

Well, take a bow, because that's a fitting Pun-ishment.

[Tvtyrant]

Well, take a bow, because that's a fitting Pun-ishment.

The series is a feather in Jeremy Renner's cap anyway.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

The series is a feather in Jeremy Renner's cap anyway.

You don’t think it’s a little off target?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Kitten Champion
Also, they've got Tatiana Maslany for their She-Hulk series -- of which I was unaware until this moment. While I wasn't really into Orphan Black when it was on, I still couldn't help but admire her acting ability in what was a really difficult role... or roles, rather. I'm curious to see how she interprets the character.

I noticed this a week or so ago, and Tatiana Maslany is the only reason I would watch a She-Hulk series.

Orphan Black is one of my favorite shows, and her acting in that series is beyond phenomenal. If she can bring that same talent, intelligence and humor to a Marvel series, it'll be one of the best.

[Tvtyrant]

You don’t think it’s a little off target?

Nah I think he his the bulls eye with it. The only problem I see is the role is a little arrow, but it left me quivering for a spin off.