Dumb build idea - diet magic gish - High spellguard

[Heavenblade]

Not a lot o intros here...just something I thought would be interesting to test - a workable "gish" (as in, martial chaaractr who is also capable of casting spells as a main part of the character), but he has no inherent casting ability from the class.



Im not going to do a full write up, but here is the premise - I'd be glad to hear your opinions/alternate ways to do the same.


Race - High elf (starting cantrip - booming blade)
Class - Cavalier fighter (feaaatsss and really solid class abilities)
Dueling fighting style, whip and shield
Background: sage

Feats (no particular order)

Spell sniper - to get booming blade with a whip and another attacking cantrip

Magic initiate - for familiar and two attack cantrips.

Warcaster - cause you want that sweet beefing for your booming blade.

High elf magic - get into the thick of things from the beginning to create choke points in the middle of the enemy.

Ritual caster - for the utility side of the caster - use the high int score you have for knowledge skills with all the neat info-gathering rituals to become a warrior-scholar!

And you have the rest of your ASIs for fun/more ability scores/more feats (like shield master)


In the end of the day youll have 4 neat forms of attacking (whip and three cantrips), 1/SR teleport, some utility slapped on top, and lots of info gathering with a familiar, divination rituals, and high int+skills.

[Mr Adventurer]

Yeah, I've thought about this. Probably worth getting Ritual Caster ASAP so you can start building your rituals known.

What's "high elf magic"?

Why Cavalier though?

Edit: also, technically any spellcasting race can also qualify you for the feats and might give you more spells overall. Tiefling for example, or Eladrin elf, Githyanki...

[cutlery]

Ritual caster gets you familiar, no need for magic initiate.

I’d take shadow touched or fey touched instead, or spell sniper.

But: why not a class/archetype with more casting built in?

[Evaar]

This doesn't really make great use of Fighter, as the Cast A Spell action is not the same as the Attack action. So every time you're using Booming Blade, you aren't getting to use Extra Attack on the class that gets the most out of that feature.

You could also just go Eldritch Knight to get the cantrips without all those expensive feats, plus take War Magic so you get to at least follow up Booming Blade with another attack as a bonus action. Still not the best use, but better than Cavalier.

Can you elaborate on what you're trying to accomplish with this build? Like what the rest of the party would see you contributing? Is it damage? Tanking? Battlefield control?

[Gignere]

Yeah you are probably better going rogue with this concept. Although 1 less feat than fighter but if you are going to abuse a single melee cantrip, I think a rogue would work better.

[x3n0n]

I assume the hope is to have War Caster and Spell Sniper on line close to level 10 so you can have great Booming Blade OAs against anyone who sneezes within 10 foot reach, with Cavalier 18 being a real capstone: WC/BB OAs for everyone! (Kind of a bummer that Cavalier 10 prevents the BB movement rider.)

Are there other synergies I'm missing between Cavalier and the magic half of the build? Cavalier is a pretty difficult chassis to build on, with features that want you to build up your Str and Con, cutting into feat space.



For another non-EK spellcasting fighter, see @LudicSavant's Wood Elf Magic build in the first post here: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?583957-An-Eclectic-Collection-of-Fun-and-Effective-Builds

Note that it gets a lot of utility out of only 2 magic-related feats.

[cutlery]

I assume the hope is to have War Caster and Spell Sniper on line close to level 10 so you can have great Booming Blade OAs against anyone who sneezes within 10 foot reach, with Cavalier 18 being a real capstone: WC/BB OAs for everyone! (Kind of a bummer that Cavalier 10 prevents the BB movement rider.)

Are there other synergies I'm missing between Cavalier and the magic half of the build? Cavalier is a pretty difficult chassis to build on, with features that want you to build up your Str and Con, cutting into feat space.


Plus, the Cavalier feature has this line in it:

"You can use this special reaction only to make an opportunity attack"

And war caster has this line:

"When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. "

I can see someone ruling that you can't cast BB multiple times in a turn as a cavalier.

[Heavenblade]

I picked cavalier cause I like it as a base class, and the focus on reactions gives me the ability to use a cantrip without feeling completely useless.

Other races could be interesting, I agree, and rogue is probably a much better choice for this kind of stuff. Also, great catch on the magic initiate--ritual caster for familiar thing!


I suppose a drow swashbuckler with drow magic feat fro xanthar's could also work for that, or even a samurai if I want to abuse elven accuracy even more.

Tiefling could be interesting if I want to snag defenses through their racial feats.



Regarding the "why not EK/AT" question - if it wasnt clear in the beginning, this is not meant to be an optimal build. The entire premise is building a workable "gish", so to speak, without having any casting ability from his class.


Thanks for the advice everyone!

[Necromas]

Yeah you are probably better going rogue with this concept. Although 1 less feat than fighter but if you are going to abuse a single melee cantrip, I think a rogue would work better.

I think thief rogue would work well enough. Sneak attack should stack with scagtrip damage and eventually you can get use magic device to activate scrolls and caster magic items.

[micahaphone]

Yeah, I've thought about this. Probably worth getting Ritual Caster ASAP so you can start building your rituals known.

What's "high elf magic"?

Why Cavalier though?

Edit: also, technically any spellcasting race can also qualify you for the feats and might give you more spells overall. Tiefling for example, or Eladrin elf, Githyanki...


I'm not positive but I think high elf magic is the Fey Teleportation feat, a half feat for high elves. Gives +1 int/cha, misty step 1/SR, and sylvan language.

[cutlery]

I'm not positive but I think high elf magic is the Fey Teleportation feat, a half feat for high elves. Gives +1 int/cha, misty step 1/SR, and sylvan language.

That's the Fey Teleportation feat; from the 2017 UA: https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/RJSJC2017_04UASkillFeats_24v10.pdf

(And yes, it's High Elf specific).





Regarding the "why not EK/AT" question - if it wasnt clear in the beginning, this is not meant to be an optimal build.

You don't need to worry too much about that with the EK. If you want a fighter with a tiny bit of magic, they're it. You can pick stuff that is useful out of combat if you like, and rely mostly on the cantrip, but shield and absorb elements at least are worth a look.

If you'd like to be casting more than one booming blade per round (without using action surge), an EK with war magic and then a war caster opportunity attack will get you there by level 7; you can then start taking levels in something else if you want to mix it up. You're still limited to one cantrip+bonus action attack on your turn, and one opportunity attack that can be a cantrip.

I don't think you can use booming blade more than once with your "special reactions" from cavalier, from the abilities as written above.

[Mr Adventurer]

That's the Fey Teleportation feat; from the 2017 UA: https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/RJSJC2017_04UASkillFeats_24v10.pdf

(And yes, it's High Elf specific).

Aha. It's in Xanathar's.