Half Drow paladin of Eilistraee

[Nalistri]

Hi everyone a bit of background imformation our group is playing out of the abyss we are still only level 2 but I plan to go Redemption Paladin/probably sword bard.

Anyway my character is a follower of Eilistraee and I want him to try and help Drow that we encounter, however when I read about the church I just dont know what I can do or say. If I go around trying to free them of Lolths web what is stopping them from running and informing the nearest city that there is a heretic trying to steer people away from Lolths divine rule! I dont want to cause trouble for my group by having every follower of Lolth on the hunt for us.

Any advice on what I can do or say is greatly appreciated.

[ashtrails]

I'd suggest acting according to 2 of your tenets:

Patience and Wisdom.
Not every drow you'll encounter will be ready for redemption, so act accordingly. And it may be a slow, ongoing process to get them back on track, so don't come kicking down the proverbial door. Don't even mention that you are a paladin, a holy man etc, just show them there can be a better life, if they're willing to take it. You do not have to announce your intentions or your oath to redeem people, you just have to read them correctly, and show them ways to be a better person.

Use your judgement and insight to sort out the ones that only need a nudge and a perspective.
Neither your oath nor your deity want you to act like a fool and just shotgun blast redemption&religious conversion to the detriment of your party.

And as so often: talk to your GM and let them know what you want to do and you probably will get opportunities : )

[Bunny Commando]

Hi everyone a bit of background imformation our group is playing out of the abyss we are still only level 2 but I plan to go Redemption Paladin/probably sword bard.

Anyway my character is a follower of Eilistraee and I want him to try and help Drow that we encounter, however when I read about the church I just dont know what I can do or say. If I go around trying to free them of Lolths web what is stopping them from running and informing the nearest city that there is a heretic trying to steer people away from Lolths divine rule! I dont want to cause trouble for my group by having every follower of Lolth on the hunt for us.

Any advice on what I can do or say is greatly appreciated.

As someone (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0464.html) has said, redemption is a rare and special thing; it's not for everyone.
Trying to help means knowing when to help. There are many followers of Lolth that are so indoctrinated that nothing you could say or do could sway them - leave them be and focus your character's efforts on people that may still be saved.

About what to say: say little, if anything at all. Don't directly challenge their belief in Lolth. Be discreet and use your actions to show them there's another, better way.
If you find yourself in a position to stab (figuratively) someone in the back, don't. Keep your word. Be merciful, even when it's not convenient to do so. If possible, help them work together - Lolth wants her followers to fight each other; many Drows respect strength and power and if you show them they can be stronger by helping each other, some may start to understand that their weakness is their belief in Lolth.
Still, be wary and if some others try to kill you believing you're weak: crush them utterly. You're good, you're not dumb (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html) and you have to show them that your goodness is your strength.

[cutlery]

Any advice on what I can do or say is greatly appreciated.

Lolth has a lot of worshipers. Outing yourself is essentially hostile to that belief system is likely to make them hostile to your breathing system. You can't change the mind of every Lolth worshipper you see.

If you could, why Eilistraee, why not a more comfortable shade of neutral? Might be an easier sell.

What is more important, turning them from Lolth or turning them to Eilistraee?

[Nalistri]

Lolth has a lot of worshipers. Outing yourself is essentially hostile to that belief system is likely to make them hostile to your breathing system. You can't change the mind of every Lolth worshipper you see.

If you could, why Eilistraee, why not a more comfortable shade of neutral? Might be an easier sell.

What is more important, turning them from Lolth or turning them to Eilistraee?


When I asked that I was meaning more in the sense of what could be said or done to show them that there is a better way to live away from the web of Lolth not going to run around saying Loltth is bad we already got enough to deal with down here dont need an army of cultis afer our blood as well. They dont have to turn to Eilistraee neccasarily but I get your point I should of been clear with that from the start. I was more wondering what acts might make a Lolth believer start to question things

[cutlery]

I was more wondering what acts might make a Lolth believer start to question things

From you? Probably not much, as the acts you are thinking of would just make you look weak in their eyes.

Weakening or ending one's religious adherence isn't a small thing, particuarly with a god like Lolth who makes a habit of sending her other faithful to murder/sacrifice those that turn from her.

[Nalistri]

As someone (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0464.html) has said, redemption is a rare and special thing; it's not for everyone.
Trying to help means knowing when to help. There are many followers of Lolth that are so indoctrinated that nothing you could say or do could sway them - leave them be and focus your character's efforts on people that may still be saved.

About what to say: say little, if anything at all. Don't directly challenge their belief in Lolth. Be discreet and use your actions to show them there's another, better way.
If you find yourself in a position to stab (figuratively) someone in the back, don't. Keep your word. Be merciful, even when it's not convenient to do so. If possible, help them work together - Lolth wants her followers to fight each other; many Drows respect strength and power and if you show them they can be stronger by helping each other, some may start to understand that their weakness is their belief in Lolth.
Still, be wary and if some others try to kill you believing you're weak: crush them utterly. You're good, you're not dumb (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html) and you have to show them that your goodness is your strength.

How will I be able to know which ones can be saved? Im not going to declare to the Underdark Lolth is evil dont worship her! that would be sucide but what actions can be taken or subtle hints could my paladin give to nudge people in the right direction out of Lolths web?

[micahaphone]

I'm DMing Out of the Abyss and one of my players is a half drow paladin too, but they went Oath of the Ancients. She's actually converted one (and kind of a second) to Elistraee, one thing we've had a lot of fun with is Elistraee not having much of an official church or organization - there's no how-to guide or official bible or anything like that. A lot of time is spent chatting with non-hostile drow about how's life, how're they feeling, ever feel trapped in inertia of doing chaotic evil backstabbery, do you ever wish there could be a second chance, etc. It takes time and doesn't always work, but befriending NPCs is also always a nice perk.

[Nalistri]

I'm DMing Out of the Abyss and one of my players is a half drow paladin too, but they went Oath of the Ancients. She's actually converted one (and kind of a second) to Elistraee, one thing we've had a lot of fun with is Elistraee not having much of an official church or organization - there's no how-to guide or official bible or anything like that. A lot of time is spent chatting with non-hostile drow about how's life, how're they feeling, ever feel trapped in inertia of doing chaotic evil backstabbery, do you ever wish there could be a second chance, etc. It takes time and doesn't always work, but befriending NPCs is also always a nice perk.

Nice our group is still only level 2 so we havent encountered any Drow yet. We skipped the prison break and afer exploring a bit are in a burial chamber of some sort currently I was worried any Drow we met would be instantly hostile because allot of my group is surface dwellers

[Bunny Commando]

How will I be able to know which ones can be saved? Im not going to declare to the Underdark Lolth is evil dont worship her! that would be sucide but what actions can be taken or subtle hints could my paladin give to nudge people in the right direction out of Lolths web?

As micahaphone said: talk to them, take interest in them and from what they say try to gauge if there's a chance of redemption. Just remember: most probably you will fail more than you will succeed - redemption is tricky and some people will double down on their mistake instead of admitting they were wrong.
About what to do, as I said in my previous post, try to be a decent fellow: if you treat them with respect and show them you're trustworthy and not a weakling, there's a chance some will start questioning Lolth's teachings.
Drow are people and people like when they don't have to constantly watch their back.

[Unoriginal]

How will I be able to know which ones can be saved? Im not going to declare to the Underdark Lolth is evil dont worship her! that would be sucide but what actions can be taken or subtle hints could my paladin give to nudge people in the right direction out of Lolths web?

I mean, they know she's evil. For the Drow, "Lolth is evil" isn't really an argument to stop worshiping them. It's more an argument to not piss her off.

First question you need to ask yourself is: what exactly are you trying to get them out of?

[cutlery]

redemption is tricky and some people will double down on their mistake instead of admitting they were wrong.


By their own moral compass, they aren’t wrong.

They don’t need to convince drow they are merely wrong, they need to convince them they need a new moral compass; without any objective criteria to show the new compass is more correct.

I’d just smite them instead.

[Unoriginal]

By their own moral compass, they aren’t wrong.

They don’t need to convince drow they are merely wrong, they need to convince them they need a new moral compass; without any objective criteria to show the new compass is more correct.

It's not a question of being "correct", it's a question of what the person wants their life to be like.


Is the Paladin's way of life desirable for the Drow? To some extent, probably, and to some individuals more than others obviously.

Would it be enough for Drow to give up on their whole socio-cultural structure and try the unknown? To some, it would.


But keep in mind that many Drow actually enjoy their way of life, as the benefits it grant them make up (in their mind) for the sacrifices.

[Nalistri]

It's not a question of being "correct", it's a question of what the person wants their life to be like.


Is the Paladin's way of life desirable for the Drow? To some extent, probably, and to some individuals more than others obviously.

Would it be enough for Drow to give up on their whole socio-cultural structure and try the unknown? To some, it would.


But keep in mind that many Drow actually enjoy their way of life, as the benefits it grant them make up (in their mind) for the sacrifices.

What benefits do they get? Not murdered and made a ritual sacrifice for a spider queen who could not give less of a care in the world about them?

[cutlery]

What benefits do they get? Not murdered and made a ritual sacrifice for a spider queen who could not give less of a care in the world about them?

Slave labor and tacit social acceptance when they choose to murder their rivals, provided they put on the slightest show of being sneaky about it.

If you're a noble, it's pretty good. If you're a priestess of Lolth, it's fantastic. You're on top, and your moral code tells you this is fine and just.

So: Instant gratification.

If you aren't a noble, and are otherwise-low ranked in society, it probably isn't that great. On the other hand, sticking with the Lolth way of doing things is much easier than striking out on your own or outing yourself as a heretic, particularly if you aren't a PC with character levels - because Lolth knows who her worshipers are. That's where she draws her power, after all.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Way back in 3.5, I had a Elven Monk, who redeemed a Drow. She'd already been exiled from the underdark due to inter-house politics. But then found herself as an enslaved assassin to a Lich. The party met said Drow when she plugged several poisoned arrows into the party fighter's back from long range. My character rushed forward knocked her out and she was captured for interrogation as to the location of the Lich's lair. After freeing her from the cursed item that compelled her to obey him he let her go. He told her that no one deserved to be a slave and encouraged her to make a life for herself on the surface. And that she should also help people where ever she went, not for moral reasons(if a moral argument will work you probably don't need to make it) but practical ones life's easier when people want you to be around. He also made it clearly that if she did go out and commit evil his his mercy would be at an end. His hope was that by doing good and helping others she would find acceptance and maybe even come to enjoy doing good deeds.
And she did go out and do good to prove that she could be accepted and in the end played a role along side the party in saving the world.

The story actually becomes very awkward because Drow and my Elven monk eventually married and had a full Drow sized family. 10+ Kids.


Hi everyone a bit of background information our group is playing out of the abyss we are still only level 2 but I plan to go Redemption Paladin/probably sword bard.

Anyway my character is a follower of Eilistraee and I want him to try and help Drow that we encounter, however when I read about the church I just dont know what I can do or say. If I go around trying to free them of Lolths web what is stopping them from running and informing the nearest city that there is a heretic trying to steer people away from Lolths divine rule! I dont want to cause trouble for my group by having every follower of Lolth on the hunt for us.

Any advice on what I can do or say is greatly appreciated.
I'm not familiar with out of the abyss but here I'll go.
Unless you're IN the Underdark there shouldn't be a problem with them running off to tattle on you, its a little out of the way to for the Drow to hunt you down specifically. But as you are in the Underdark you still don't have to worry. You're in a group of escaped prisoners they'll hunt you anyway.

The first thing you can offer them is freedom. Every Drow under Lolth is a slave, EVERYONE. Some may have a longer leash then others but even a priestesses of Lolith will find herself dead if she steps a toe out of line. Either from a rival looking to eliminate the competition, a subordinate looking to advance or a superior looking to squash a potential rival. Talk about every ****ty thing there is about Drow society then offer them an alternative.

Now what you really need to do, is give them some place to go. A place on the surface they might be accepted. Living as a vegabond on the surface with everyone around you wishing you dead because you're a Drow isn't really an improvement. I'm not really familiar with the campaign book "Out of the Abyss" but I'm guessing dealing with demons is going to take up a good portion of your time. If you end up fighting along side Drow against the demons you might have the chance at a few converts.


If you're a noble, it's pretty good. If you're a priestess of Lolth, it's fantastic. You're on top, and your moral code tells you this is fine and just.Except of course the priest hood is the most cut throat portion of society. The higher up in Drow society you go the more paranoid you need to be. When life at every level is basically Game of Thrones in political backstabbing life isn't good for anyone.

[cutlery]

Except of course the priest hood is the most cut throat portion of society. The higher up in Drow society you go the more paranoid you need to be. When life at every level is basically Game of Thrones in political backstabbing life isn't good for anyone.

If you can convince them of that; those high up in the priesthood are also the kind that will be very much missed if they leave. Those that remain will have much to gain for finding and killing the heretic.

I wouldn't expect "your religion and culture is bad, try mine" to be an easy sell for someone that has spent possibly hundred of years living under the old way; and, importantly "you could help people instead of murdering them" might be the most absurd thing they have heard in a decade.

If all it took get drow to turn was giving them a cookie, Lolth would have fallen from power ages ago. This is a deity and religion that happily goes on crusades to burn cities that turn from Lolth.

I think the OP may have much better luck convincing drow that have already drifted from Lolth that they can have a better life elsewhere (maybe they will, maybe they won't).

Getting them to admit they no longer revere Lolth may be tricky, depending on the city.

[Lord Vukodlak]

If you can convince them of that; those high up in the priesthood are also the kind that will be very much missed if they leave. Those that remain will have much to gain for finding and killing the heretic.

I wouldn't expect "your religion and culture is bad, try mine" to be an easy sell for someone that has spent possibly hundred of years living under the old way; and, importantly "you could help people instead of murdering them" might be the most absurd thing they have heard in a decade.

If all it took get drow to turn was giving them a cookie, Lolth would have fallen from power ages ago. This is a deity and religion that happily goes on crusades to burn cities that turn from Lolth.

I think the OP may have much better luck convincing drow that have already drifted from Lolth that they can have a better life elsewhere (maybe they will, maybe they won't).

Getting them to admit they no longer revere Lolth may be tricky, depending on the city.

Indeed itÂ’s converting outcasts will be the easiest. If you notice youÂ’re quote was separated from everything else. I wasnÂ’t saying she had a real shot at converting a cleric of Lolith. I was simply saying life sucks for everyone in Drow society. Lolith has historically fought to keep the existence of alternative drow gods a secret.
Let the Drow know that they do have a choice and their souls are not eternally bound to the spider queen and you may find a few converts.

[Toofey]

So do it with your group, tell them the risks tell them it's important to you and ask their help. That's what I think a paladin would do anyway.

[michaeljpastor]

Hi everyone a bit of background imformation our group is playing out of the abyss we are still only level 2 but I plan to go Redemption Paladin/probably sword bard.

Anyway my character is a follower of Eilistraee and I want him to try and help Drow that we encounter, however when I read about the church I just dont know what I can do or say. If I go around trying to free them of Lolths web what is stopping them from running and informing the nearest city that there is a heretic trying to steer people away from Lolths divine rule! I dont want to cause trouble for my group by having every follower of Lolth on the hunt for us.

Any advice on what I can do or say is greatly appreciated.

Get yourself a sprite familiar by dipping into Chain Warlock and use their abillity to detect emotions to find the most good non-evil drow you encounter and then use some sort of charming ability (skill or spell or whatever) to shift their sympathies to you and Ellistraee's message.

[Waterdeep Merch]

It's not a bad idea to gauge levels of redemption. You may never run into a drow that meets you, sees the light, and fully embraces a CG life. That sort of thing is extremely rare.

But what you can absolutely do is make any drow you encounter less awful. Focus on what they want, and the ways that their Llolth-worshipping evil impacts that. Start with small things, and take the first action. Don't proselytize, don't chide them, just do things that make them realize when an evil is just not serving them.

If a drow starts trusting you because of how much you've changed their life for the better, start suggesting trivial changes they can make that aren't completely in their favor or best interest. If this works and they're still there, this is one of those rare few who can see true redemption, go ahead and go the distance.

But making all of drow society a little less awful can be far more meaningful in the long run than redeeming a single drow. Take some pride in that.

[truemane]

Metamagic Mod: Thread Necromancy is a forbidden art.