Optimizing Blade Bravo

[liquidformat]

Hey I have always liked the Blade Bravo and would like to pick everyone's brains for optimizing it. I am looking for level 20 builds, all WotC books and the mags available 36point buy and use all 10 levels of Blade Bravo. This is more of theory craft for the moment since I don't have an active game for it.

[Doctor Despair]

Hey I have always liked the Blade Bravo and would like to pick everyone's brains for optimizing it. I am looking for level 20 builds, all WotC books and the mags available 36point buy and use all 10 levels of Blade Bravo. This is more of theory craft for the moment since I don't have an active game for it.

Maybe combine with Psychic Warrior to get Compression, or else pony up the gp for permanency on reduce person

Maybe take Master of Mockery to take advantage of the extra AOO capstone feature

[Anthrowhale]

If you are a Hengeyokai (Sparrow) then you can becomes a Size:Fine sparrow. Normally, that's useless as an attack form since a sparrow has no attacks and no arms, but there are a number of ways to add attacks. Combining this with sneak attacks and various ways to apply sneak attack more consistently might work out well.

[daremetoidareyo]

Tibbit is a solid choice

[Wildstag]

So are we assuming a race neutral Blade Bravo (as a couple others have mentioned alternative races)? Because otherwise you'd have to go all 3 levels of Stoneblessed to be counted as a Gnome. Granted, you can enter Stoneblessed at level 3 by the looks of things.

You would only need 15 class levels (2 for base class, 3 for Stoneblessed, 10 for Blade Bravo), so perhaps up to a +5 LA could work.

I'd go Domovoi just because I like the little buggers. Frostburn gives conflicting LA for them, but the "Domovoi as Characters" gives them +2 and 2 Fey HD for a decent package.

Maybe if you go anti-lore, a Kobold Gnome-Stoneblessed could work using the web-archive's Slight Build Feature and the kobold ability that sacrifices hit points permanently for a spell-like ability pulled from the Sorcerer spell list. The way I see it, you could maximize duelist AC by using Reduce Person as an SLA to make the Kobold Tiny, and then a liberal reading of Slight Build could make you effectively Diminuitive when factoring in size differences for the one Blade Bravo ability.

[Telonius]

Underfoot Combat/Confound the Big Folk seem like they would be useful in the build. Improved Feint as well.

[Zombulian]

If you are a Hengeyokai (Sparrow) then you can becomes a Size:Fine sparrow. Normally, that's useless as an attack form since a sparrow has no attacks and no arms, but there are a number of ways to add attacks. Combining this with sneak attacks and various ways to apply sneak attack more consistently might work out well.

Could always do the ol' Half Giant + Return to Nature trick and get as small as your DM allows.

[Darrin]

It's quite difficult to top LogicNinja:

I May Be Tiny, But You're Dead: the other, melee Killer Gnome. (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=19914052&postcount=40)

[TalonOfAnathrax]

It's quite difficult to top LogicNinja:

I May Be Tiny, But You're Dead: the other, melee Killer Gnome. (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=19914052&postcount=40)
It's a cool build, but I can't seem to make the feat progression work.
It assumes that you can take Carmendine Monk at level 1 before actually having Monk levels (how are you a member of the prerequisite Monk order, then? This build seems to assume a generous GM or a convenient backstory). You could get around that by taking a major bloodline to get a bonus feat at level 2 (if you already have the bloodline's bonus feat you can pick any other feat you qualify for) but it should say so. Or is there a way for a monk to get Carmendine Monk as a bonus feat that I'm unaware of?

[Darrin]

It assumes that you can take Carmendine Monk at level 1 before actually having Monk levels (how are you a member of the prerequisite Monk order, then? This build seems to assume a generous GM or a convenient backstory).


Yes. There is nothing in the requirements for Carmendine Monk that requires you to have monk levels. Zealots of the Written Word is a minor organization, and it has no hard requirements for membership. You can declare membership as part of your character background.

[Doctor Despair]

Yes. There is nothing in the requirements for Carmendine Monk that requires you to have monk levels. Zealots of the Written Word is a minor organization, and it has no hard requirements for membership. You can declare membership as part of your character background.

Is that Shooting Star Ranger organization the same way?

[Darrin]

Is that Shooting Star Ranger organization the same way?

Yep. Minor organization. No membership requirements.

[liquidformat]

So are we assuming a race neutral Blade Bravo (as a couple others have mentioned alternative races)? Because otherwise you'd have to go all 3 levels of Stoneblessed to be counted as a Gnome. Granted, you can enter Stoneblessed at level 3 by the looks of things.

You would only need 15 class levels (2 for base class, 3 for Stoneblessed, 10 for Blade Bravo), so perhaps up to a +5 LA could work.

I'd go Domovoi just because I like the little buggers. Frostburn gives conflicting LA for them, but the "Domovoi as Characters" gives them +2 and 2 Fey HD for a decent package.

Maybe if you go anti-lore, a Kobold Gnome-Stoneblessed could work using the web-archive's Slight Build Feature and the kobold ability that sacrifices hit points permanently for a spell-like ability pulled from the Sorcerer spell list. The way I see it, you could maximize duelist AC by using Reduce Person as an SLA to make the Kobold Tiny, and then a liberal reading of Slight Build could make you effectively Diminuitive when factoring in size differences for the one Blade Bravo ability.

Yeah looking at RAW for blade Bravo and same with Stoneblessed, you couldn't get into Blade Bravo with Base Class 2/Stoneblessed 3, even if base class is full bab that still puts you at Bab 4...

Tibbit is a solid choice
I don't see how you could enter Blade Bravo as a Tibbit, Stoneblessed is limited to Giant, humanoid, or monstrous humanoid.

Melee Killer Gnome looks pretty cool, hmm I am wondering if I could include a swordsage dip Daring Outlaw and maybe the gloves that give you two weapon fighting feat, hmm I will play around with it a bit...

[Wildstag]

Yeah looking at RAW for blade Bravo and same with Stoneblessed, you couldn't get into Blade Bravo with Base Class 2/Stoneblessed 3, even if base class is full bab that still puts you at Bab 4...

I don't see how you could enter Blade Bravo as a Tibbit, Stoneblessed is limited to Giant, humanoid, or monstrous humanoid.

Melee Killer Gnome looks pretty cool, hmm I am wondering if I could include a swordsage dip Daring Outlaw and maybe the gloves that give you two weapon fighting feat, hmm I will play around with it a bit...

Ah, my bad on the bab requirements, you'd need an additional class level just for the bab. so 16 class levels minimum for any non-gnome Blade Bravo.

Tibbit is a monstrous humanoid though, with the shapeshifter subtype (per the Dragon Compendium).

[liquidformat]

Ah, my bad on the bab requirements, you'd need an additional class level just for the bab. so 16 class levels minimum for any non-gnome Blade Bravo.

Tibbit is a monstrous humanoid though, with the shapeshifter subtype (per the Dragon Compendium).

hum what am I thinking about then, I thought they were magicalbeast cats that were presented in a forgotten realms book maybe their bestiary book?

[Piggy Knowles]

I'd have to see if the levels would work out, but going a somewhat different route, what about something with some Charisma involving iaijutsu focus and Confound the Big Folk? That would give you some use out of Goad and lethal riposte thanks to the Cha-focus, and a good way to take advantage of the flat-footed condition that Confound the Big Folk grants you.

I'd have to see if the feats would work out, but maybe something like OA Samurai 2/Fighter 2/Warblade 1/Blade Bravo 10/Iaijutsu Master 5 could be fun. You get a little bit lucky in that you can take your various Weapon Focus feats for requirements and then aptitude them away to the relevant weapon. Enter someone's square, Goad them into focusing on you and slice 'em up with sneak attack, Craven, iaijutsu focus and whatever other damage you can stack on top of that. If they try to counterattack you, you've got several bonuses to AC, giving you the opportunity to trigger lethal riposte for more damage.

[liquidformat]

So looking around at potential builds I saw Monk Knight Hospitaller which gives Weapon Focus (any)L1 and Combat Expertise L2 so with Swashbuckler 3 you already have all feat requirements to enter blade bravo and just need 1 bab to enter. Granted I still think that is inferior to Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 2 unless you are using arcane stunt and Invisible Fist ACFs to get some extra tricks up your sleeve. Also it perplexes me that Titan Fighting isn't a bonus feat for Blade Bravo, especially since they are from the same book...

Anyways I am thinking doing a modified daring outlaw build Whisper Gnome swashbuckler L3/Rogue L4(Penetrating Strike)/swordsage L1/Blade Bravo L1-4/Swordsage L2/Blade Bravo L5-10/Open

Definite feats so far Combat Expertise, Two Weapon Fighting (thinking of getting gloves that give improved two weapon fighting), Craven, Underfoot Combat, Confound the Big Folk

So excluding flaws for the moment that leaves 2 feat slots open plus the three from Blade Bravo. The way I see if I could go for Elusive Target and pickup Dodge Mobility and Improved Trip from blade Bravo which leaves either taking Shadow Blade, Daring Outlaw or Titan Fighting.

Alternatively I can ignore Elusive Target and grab Dodge, Combat Reflexes, and Improved Trip from Blade Bravo, Titan Fighting and either Shadow Blade or Daring Outlaw.

Either way the real question I suppose is if Shadow Blade or 2d6 sneak attack from Daring Outlaw is better. My intuition is Shadow Blade since pumping Dex is pretty easy but not sure, what do you all think?

Also what might be good to take for that last level, would taking a level of barbarian to snag pounce from lion spirit totem, City Brawler to grab two-weapon fighting and maybe whirling Frenzy somewhere in the front end be the best choice, or is there something better out there to pickup?