Best gish-type psionic-inclusive core build

[Hiro Quester]

I’m currently playing a bard in a mostly-core game. Level 11 DM is starting to open up other books. My character just learned about psionics.

We are also playing in a reasonably dangerous game in which PC death is a serious possibility. So now I’m thinking about designing a back up character that users psionics.

I have never used psionics before. I don’t think the DM is terribly well-versed in them either. But it seems he trusts me to learn and apply it reasonably in a non-game breaking way.

I like playing casters who can also mix it up in melee at least once in a while. My current role is party face and buffer, but others can also play those roles. I could step out and do some thing different.

Can anyone please suggest a good place to start? Build suggestions that help us learn psionics, that can be fun to play, starting at 11th level or higher.

It doesn’t necessarily need to be only psionic but some combination of core classes, characters and races, (maybe also Races of... books) and psionics.

[Aracor]

Psychic Warrior is your one-stop shop. It has lots of variety, enough power points to be useful, especially at the level range you're playing at, but is not likely to break the game.
The most important rule to make sure you're not cheating is simple. You can never spend more power points than your manifester level on a single power. So if you're a first level psion with 5 power points, you can't spend all 5 on an energy ray and burst out 5d6+5 damage at level 1. You can spend 1 power point at a time until you're higher level. That goes for any manifester, and is the most important rule to keep things under control.

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psychicWarrior.htm

If you need more info, have a handbook! https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?162701-3-5-The-Psychic-Warrior-Handbook

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Agreed on psychic warrior. Do you have access to online sources? Because The Mind's Eye (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a) has a couple of ACFs you'll want to look at. The soulbound weapon ACF is a fantastic way to always have the right weapon on hand, especially if you put more effort into enhancing it. Ancestral Relic to add weapon effects not under the +X equivalent weapon enhancement paradigm (such as warning and eager) could do some really nice things for you. Make it a very versatile weapon, such as an elvencraft longbow, and take some extra reach options (like these (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?482034-All-the-ways-to-increase-reach-aside-from-size-increases)), and you'll have a very versatile weapon you can use for almost everything. Even better, since you can add sizing and morphing on it. Note that strength of my enemy works on ranged weapons, too, so enjoy that +8 (or greater) enhancement bonus to your Strength score.

You'll also want access to the Natural World mantle, from CPsi (which is granted by the mantled warrior ACF) for access to metamorphosis. Craft a psychoactive skin of proteus at the first opportunity and enjoy all-day shapeshifting at ML 7, with the ability to massively increase your power and versatility even further by actually manifesting metamorphosis when needed. Getting a cheap psychoactive skin and enhancing it as a skin of proteus is a great way to utilize Ancestral Relic, as well.

[edit] This can't be stated enough times, or loudly enough. THE #1 RULE OF PSIONICS IS THAT YOU CANNOT SPEND MORE POWER POINTS THAN YOUR MANIFESTER LEVEL. That is, if you have a ML of 10, you cannot spend more than 10 pp on any one power unless you have some way to specifically bypass it, such as ML increasers, cost reducers (in which case, you get some augmentation "for free") or quori power link shards (these do not exist, never have existed, and will never exist).

You may also want to look into crafting a pair of psionic arcanist's gloves, from the MIC (which also gives rules for making psionic versions of magic items). That extra ML boost to your soulbound weapon is really sweet. Also, psionic metamagic rods.

[Nihilarian]

I want to like Soulbound Weapon but it iust doesnt seem worth building around. Over the course of a day you'll probably spend like 2/3rds of your PP, plus a standard action at the start of every battle, to get a weapon thats not gonna be any better than a sword the fighter just has around.

I like the War Mind prc. It runs off of the PW list and has a cool double hit ability. You can do some cool stuff with the levels going into the prc, altbough many of them wont be available since its core only

[Anthrowhale]

Ranger 1/Psion(egoist) 6/Slayer 3 seems like a decent alternative to Psychic Warrior by level 10. You have fewer feats, the same BAB, more skills, many more power points, and many more powers as well as direct access to metamorphosis.

[Buddy76]

If you're starting at level 11 or higher, I second Anthrowhale's build. You'll already be past all the hoops and speed bumps and will have a faster bab and power proggression. Plus, Slayer has some good defences.

[Hiro Quester]

That does look like a good build, Anthrowhale. I like the look of Slayer and Egoist combined. Thanks for the suggestion.

Is there a race that goes well with that build? Elan looks interesting.

[Anthrowhale]

Is there a race that goes well with that build? Elan looks interesting.
Elan is good on a gish due to Resilience which makes your effective hp = pp*2+hp and you could potentially make it pp*4+hp via the Elan Resilience feat. Of course, Vigor has an even better effect if you can predict in advance when you will take damage.

Another reasonable possibility would be some form LA+0 outside to open up metamorph possibilities. Possibilities include the Neraph or the savage progression aasimar or tiefling (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) where you choose to not take the next level (as is explicitly allowed).

Another possibility is a warforged, which would allow you to metamorph into various constructs which have quite nice immunities.

All of these are good choices. I'd consider the outsider metamorph approach a little bit more balanced in generic because you can rely on psionics for defenses while the outsider forms give excellent offense. As an example: Kelvezu (12HD) gives flight+poison+8d6 sneak attack+31 Dex+15 natural armor. Still, just as an Elan, you would have access to War Troll which is certainly a solid combatant as well.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Another possibility is a warforged, which would allow you to metamorph into various constructs which have quite nice immunities.Made even better due to the fact that animated objects are creatures, and they're not the result of a template. And any object can be animated, from a tree to a station wagon to a rock to a rug to a ship to a corpse.

An incredible wealth of versatility for that alone. Any object of a size within your limits (based on your ML and the HD of the animated objects listed in the MMI) is fair game. Stealth, utility, offense, defense, and more are yours for the taking. And don't forget that you'll gain bonus HP for turning into a non-warforged construct.

[edit] What happens if you take Human Heritage (due to being made by a human, or having human parts in your construction, such as your body's skeleton) and Otherworldly? Do you count as a (living) construct AND an outsider AND a human?

[Darg]

Do you count as a (living) construct AND an outsider AND a human?

Manconsider. Half man. Half con. Half cider. Man has to consider whether something is better left unrealized.

[Hiro Quester]

Thanks again for the advice. Elan Ranger1/Psion6/Slayer10 does seem promising, with the right mix of flexibility and power that I like playing.

Our campaign will probably be going to level 20+. Probably 22-23. (Our DM likes playing into Epic for multiverse-changing storylines.). How to talk this to epic levels might be good to think about.

How would you build that out to 20? Slayer until 16 seems worth doing. What would you do with the other 3 levels?

More ranger, Psion and Slayer seems feasible. I have seen Ranger2/Psion8/Slayer10. Is that losing too many MLs?

Though adding something like Anarchic Initiate seems also doable, for full manifesting progression and a couple of useful abilities (well... they seem useful).
Are they?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You have to burn a ton of feats to gain additional power points in epic normally. Otherwise, you could just take Supernatural Transformation (Psionics) and start dipping manifesting classes. All of them will have their manifester levels boosted to your HD, and they all base their bonus power points off of that and your ability scores, so start boosting those, instead.

You may also (ironically) start taking levels in illithid savant after futzing around with your race via magic psionics and start eating a few high level characters with manifesting classes that way.

[Anthrowhale]

I had overlooked Anarchic Initiate on a psionic Gish---it does have some virtues. Ranger 1/Psion 6/Slayer 9/Anarchic Initiate 4 gives you BAB+16. The Overchannel feat is pretty useful anyways. You could even reach AI 6 by only going to Psion 4 and losing a psionic feat.

Edit: In terms of manifester level, the 'practiced manifester' feat is nice. Practiced Manifester, Overchannel, and AIs Wild Surge will let you max out Greater Metamorphosis at level 21.