[3.5/3.0] Adding the wizard/sorcer list as an arcane caster

[somedudeguy]

I just now realized the title of this thread is very backwards. Sorry. I meant: "How do I add the wizard/sorcerer list as a divine caster?"

Hello,

I am building a character and I have a question. Assume I am a divine caster, is there any prestige class that can add the wizard/sorcerer list to my spell list? I know there are a couple ways to do it in reverse and get the cleric list as an arcane caster, but I am looking for something that can do it the other way.

[Doctor Despair]

There are ways to get cleric spells, such as the Extra Spell feat

Divine ranks can give you the ability to cast spells in your domain

Wish can duplicate spell effects

Er... There could be some Versatile Spellcaster cheese?

Taking a level in Ur Priest and then switching to a theurge could also do it, but that's a lot more resource-intensive

[somedudeguy]

Thank you for your reply. I apologize though, I got the title of my thread backwards. I'm trying to add the wizard/sorcerer list to my spell list as a divine caster.

[Zanos]

You could play an archivist. They are a divine caster that can learn any divine spell, but most arcane spells exist as a divine spell in some form.

[somedudeguy]

I guess some background would be good here.

My current build is Warmage 4/Rainbow Servant 10. Since warmage can spontaneously cast any spell on their spell list, that means that the Rainbow Servant 10 ability lets me now sopntaneously cast the Cleric list. The crucial thing here is that those spells count as divine still. So now I am a Warmage who casts cleric spells that use my Int (since they are on my spell list) but still count as divine. That should allow me access to some prestige class that goes back the other way and gives me access to the wizard/sorcerer spell list (assuming such a thing exists).

Basically this is a thought exercise about how I could spontaneously cast the entirety of the wizard and cleric spell list while still only using one ability score.

[lylsyly]

Nar Demonbinder from Unapproachable East gives 4th thru 8th from a short list. But it's poor bab and D6 HD. Of course since you have access to Divine Power the bab is kinda irrelevent ;-)

[Anthrowhale]

Maybe you could pick up Prestige Paladin 4 or Prestige Ranger 4 and then Sword of the Arcane Order?

[Doctor Despair]

People more knowledgeable than me, weigh in here, but Versatile Spellcaster and one level of Wizard should work here, right? He can pay arbitrarily high amounts of GP to add to his wizard spells known at any level, and use Versatile Spellcaster to trade his divine slots to cast any spell he knows of one level higher?

Apart from that, Anyspell, Greater Anyspell, and Miracle can mimic arcane spells, right?

[Vaern]

People more knowledgeable than me, weigh in here, but Versatile Spellcaster and one level of Wizard should work here, right? He can pay arbitrarily high amounts of GP to add to his wizard spells known at any level, and use Versatile Spellcaster to trade his divine slots to cast any spell he knows of one level higher?

Apart from that, Anyspell, Greater Anyspell, and Miracle can mimic arcane spells, right?

Anyspell and Greater Anyspell are domain exclusive, meaning you don't get them through cleric spell access for being a rainbow servant. Arcane Disciple adds a domain's spells to your spell list, which would get you the Anyspells. Unfortunately they're still 1/day through the feat, as normal domain spells are meant to be, and they only allow you to prepare a single spell that you happen to have in a spellbook or in scroll form... It's good for expanding spell options, but it's not exactly giving the option to spontaneously cast the whole spell list.
Miracle will do the trick, for the most part, but that costs quite a bit per casting to be sustainable.

[Anthrowhale]

People more knowledgeable than me, weigh in here, but Versatile Spellcaster and one level of Wizard should work here, right? He can pay arbitrarily high amounts of GP to add to his wizard spells known at any level, and use Versatile Spellcaster to trade his divine slots to cast any spell he knows of one level higher?
The Rules Compendium disallows this:


A multiclass spellcaster can't cast a spontaneous spell from one class in place of one from another class.

[Rebel7284]

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?323862-Brainstorming-Eldrich-Master

[Anthrowhale]

I think the Prestige Paladin 4 + Sword of the Arcane Order approach works in general, but not here.

Details:

Prestige Paladin (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigePaladin) gives a divine spellcasting class access to paladin spells in the PHB and (potentially with some effort) elsewhere as per the guidelines.

Sword of the arcane order says:

You can use your paladin and ranger spell slots to prepare wizard spells.

A prestige paladin should count whatever divine spellcasting base class it has as a providing "paladin spell slots" since paladin spells can be cast from them.

The rub for this build is that this only provides the ability to prepare spells.

Something like an Archivist 7/Sacred Exorcist 1/Prestige Paladin 4 could manage it at level 12, although at the painful cost of 2 levels of spell advancement.

This also makes Divine Crusader potentially more impressive via something like a Fighter 7/Divine Crusader(Good) 5/Sacred Exorcist 1/Prestige Paladin 5.

[Doctor Despair]

The Rules Compendium disallows this:

That's the general rule, but as I understand it, the specific text of Versatile Spellcaster would override this, as it specifically calls for any spell you know. Again, I'm not advocating one way or another, but I do remember there was a lot of debate over this at one point.

[Troacctid]

If you're a warmage, then 1. that's an arcane caster, not a divine caster, and 2. the answer you're looking for is Mage of the Arcane Order.


That's the general rule, but as I understand it, the specific text of Versatile Spellcaster would override this, as it specifically calls for any spell you know. Again, I'm not advocating one way or another, but I do remember there was a lot of debate over this at one point.
That's the same text used in the sorcerer's spellcasting feature, so if you're taking this position, the feat doesn't do anything special to help here, since you would already be able to do it natively.

[Vaern]

the answer you're looking for is Mage of the Arcane Order.
The spellpool has the same drawback as Anyspell. While it does allow you to prepare and cast any sor/wiz spell, its use is limited and it doesn't actually add the spells to your spell list to be cast spontaneously. I'm assuming the goal of the thread is to be able to cast any spell at any time with no restrictions to create the most broken caster possible.

[Anthrowhale]

The spellpool has the same drawback as Anyspell. While it does allow you to prepare and cast any sor/wiz spell, its use is limited and it doesn't actually add the spells to your spell list to be cast spontaneously. I'm assuming the goal of the thread is to be able to cast any spell at any time with no restrictions to create the most broken caster possible.

Rashemi Spirit Magic from a Hathran is perhaps a good way to achieve this.

[Darg]

If you don't mind skirting the edges of reasonability, the Magical Training feat gives you access to a spellbook. Since you don't have another class to trigger the separate spell access clause, any spell written in your spell book is a spell known for you. This means you can use Versatile Spellcaster (explicitly let's you cast a spell/specific beats the general minimum caster level) to cast any spell in your book at caster level 1 + any other arcane caster boosts you can get.

[Bphill561]

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?323862-Brainstorming-Eldrich-Master

I love the Eldritch Master, but it is always tricky with the classes that know all the spells on their list. The don't get to select new spells known for their general spells, so being able to select spells from another list does not help much except for the few levels of advanced learning. Although I got clearance in a gestalt game to allow it to work with a dread necromancer.

Since we are including things that don't necessarily fit your build, there is also the arcane disciple cleric variant in dragon mag 311. It gets to add a wizard/sorc spell to its existing cleric list at every level.

The Theurgy ring in complete arcane is another small fix. It holds 3 spells and if you are a spontaneous caster you can cast the spell as if it was on your list. It uses the spell up in the ring though. Useful with eternal wands or daily spell items, but you want your own higher caster level. The Drake helm from the explorers books is similar but costs more. That one is not too clear if the spell can come from outside your list.

Plus runestaves and knowstones mixed with use magic device.

[Venger]

What are you using to cast off of int as a warmage? Is there some dynamic priest type feat for warmages?

[Darg]

A prestige paladin should count whatever divine spellcasting base class it has as a providing "paladin spell slots" since paladin spells can be cast from them.

The rub for this build is that this only provides the ability to prepare spells.

At best, a prestige paladin gives prestige paladin spell slots. However, if your DM says it's ok then a single wizard level dip gives you an arcane caster level = wizard + paladin + ranger levels. Not to mention battle blessing for paladin spells.

Also, preparing arcane spells is the same as being able to cast them. Otherwise Anyspell would be dysfunctional.

[Anthrowhale]

At best, a prestige paladin gives prestige paladin spell slots.
I'm not following --- a prestige paladin is a paladin. In fact, in a game with prestige paladins, there are no other paladins according to UA guidance.


Also, preparing arcane spells is the same as being able to cast them. Otherwise Anyspell would be dysfunctional.
Agreed. The point there was that SotAO doesn't provide a clear ability to spontaneously cast wizard spells.

[Thurbane]

If you can jump through the entry hoops, Hexer (Masters of the Wild) does exactly this: adds a Sor/Wiz spell to your spell list every 2 levels, and is intended for divine entry.

While not exactly a PrC (and won't really work with a Rainbow Warsnake), the Cleric ACF Divine Magician (Complete Mage) allows you to trade out a domain to get a wizard spell (from the schools of Abjuration, Divination or Necromancy only) of each level 1st through 9th added to your spell list.

[Darg]

I'm not following --- a prestige paladin is a paladin. In fact, in a game with prestige paladins, there are no other paladins according to UA guidance.

That's the thing with alternate rules; they can invalidate other rules. Prestige classes progress the spellcasting class you choose. If you are a cleric prestiged to paladin you have cleric spell slots. The paladin spells are simply added to your list. A cleric qualified malconvoker doesn't have sorc/wiz spell slots simply because they get the sorc/wiz spells of the planar binding line.

Either way it is open ground for talking with the DM about for fun in the game.

[Anthrowhale]

That's the thing with alternate rules; they can invalidate other rules. Prestige classes progress the spellcasting class you choose. If you are a cleric prestiged to paladin you have cleric spell slots. The paladin spells are simply added to your list. A cleric qualified malconvoker doesn't have sorc/wiz spell slots simply because they get the sorc/wiz spells of the planar binding line.

Either way it is open ground for talking with the DM about for fun in the game.

I agree a DM could reasonably rule that a prestige paladin has no paladin spell slots.