Mounted combat tactics

[Segev]

If you’re playing a small creature (that is not planning to hide a lot), having a pony or war dog as a mount is kind of amazing. With the fact that it can dash, disengage, or dodge and move 40 feet (or 80, with dash) while you get your action and bonus action, it takes the Small-size speed “penalty” and swaps it to a massive speed bonus.

It also means your spell caster or other squishy build can exit melee without penalty. You provoke no OA for your mount’s movement, and your mount is likely using disengage as its action in that case.

And since your mount is Medium, it can be ridden just about anywhere the rest of your (Medium-size) party is going.

The down side is just how fragile your mount eventually is compared to you. It will cost money to buy barding, though at least any reasons you might have for avoiding armor won’t apply.

You can have it take the dodge action when combat is going on and you fear attacks that will encompass it. That helps with attack rolls against it and with Dexterity saving throws. But AoEs that target other saves are still rough, and most Dexterity save effects still do half damage.

It won’t prevent damage, but taking Sentinel means your character can take OAs at anybody who attacks your mount. This at least punished trying to take out your speed bonus.

If you’re the right kind of spellcaster, false life or armor of hadar (if you can cast it on your mount somehow) can bolster its hit points, but that may not be enough.

So, dear forum friends, how would you keep your mount alive and kicking through most combats, and what other mount-based tricks or cool things can you think to do?

[MrStabby]

Halfling bard with find steed and armor of agathys is relatively strong.

[Dork_Forge]

Honestly if I wanted a tough mount I'd just play a Battle Smith as a small race and ride the Steel Defender, it has hp comparable to some PCs and a decent armor class with the ability to exploit some of your infusions and defend you.

[Segev]

Find steed and the stricter ability sound like good options if you were going for those classes already or want to build around it specifically. Especially with the ability to share spells.

Any thoughts on exploiting this if it’s not the center of your build and you just want to take advantage of your size and the mount rules on any class?

How hard is it to tame or train or buy a better mount as you get lighter level? Any good medium sized flying mounts?

[Unoriginal]

Heavily DM-ruling-dependant, but doing the old "lasso enemy from back of your mount, then have the mount Dash" trick can be pretty spectacular.

[Tanarii]

Its important to remember that your mount acts either before or after your PCs turn, not on it. That can change tactical considerations quite a lot if you're playing that wrong.

Speaking of playing things wrong, I've been assuming a Disengaging mount protects the mount from OA, but the rider still provokes one. Afb but I can totally get where thats wrong if its the equivilent of forced movement for the rider / only movement on a creatures turn.

[Gignere]

Its important to remember that your mount acts either before or after your PCs turn, not on it. That can change tactical considerations quite a lot if you're playing that wrong.

Speaking of playing things wrong, I've been assuming a Disengaging mount protects the mount from OA, but the rider still provokes one. Afb but I can totally get where thats wrong if its the equivilent of forced movement for the rider / only movement on a creatures turn.

Mount disengage protects rider, I believe it’s been confirmed by devs. It is precisely because it is forced movement on the rider part. Basically even if mount doesn’t disengage rider never triggers OA for movement, mount disengage protects itself.

[Segev]

Its important to remember that your mount acts either before or after your PCs turn, not on it. That can change tactical considerations quite a lot if you're playing that wrong.

I actually think there’s room to read the RAW either way on that, and that the RAI is that a controlled mount acts on your turn, not on its own turn before or after yours.

I base this on the rule that says the mount can move and act even on the turn you mount it. “Turn” is by creature, not by round or initiative count. If a controlled mount moves on the turn you mount it, it is moving on your turn.

I think this is a unique situation where it changing to match your initiative and it being “controlled” means that is literally shares your turn.

[Xetheral]

The Mounted Combatant feat vastly boosts the mount's survivability. Yes, a feat is a large investment, but in this case it's giving you benefits better than the Mobile feat, which is already quite good.

[Segev]

Another note on opportunity attacks: if your mount provokes one, the attacker can choose you or your mount as the target, regardless of whether the mount is controlled or independent.

The Mounted Combatant feat vastly boosts the mount's survivability. Yes, a feat is a large investment, but in this case it's giving you benefits better than the Mobile feat, which is already quite good.
This is an interesting feat, because it gives little advantage with its first bullet to small riders of medium creatures, but the second bullet makes the mount’s AC irrelevant and the third almost protects it from AoEs. Max out it’s dex saves for best effect.

Still vulnerable to other save-inducing effects, targeted or not, which can be a problem.

Interesting interaction: if mounted as a controlled mount, it’s actions are limited. Does this mean confusion and domination type effects can’t compel it to do things not on its restricted action list? Can it not be compelled to attack the nearest creature (likely its rider) since “attack” isn’t on its list of valid actions?

[Gignere]

Another note on opportunity attacks: if your mount provokes one, the attacker can choose you or your mount as the target, regardless of whether the mount is controlled or independent.

This is an interesting feat, because it gives little advantage with its first bullet to small riders of medium creatures, but the second bullet makes the mount’s AC irrelevant and the third almost protects it from AoEs. Max out it’s dex saves for best effect.

Still vulnerable to other save-inducing effects, targeted or not, which can be a problem.

Interesting interaction: if mounted as a controlled mount, it’s actions are limited. Does this mean confusion and domination type effects can’t compel it to do things not on its restricted action list? Can it not be compelled to attack the nearest creature (likely its rider) since “attack” isn’t on its list of valid actions?

If I was dming it would become independent when subject to such an effect since technically it is currently not controlled by the rider.

[Segev]

If I was dming it would become independent when subject to such an effect since technically it is currently not controlled by the rider.

Seems reasonable enough. Would you roll it a new initiative or just have it go immediately before or after the rider?



I was looking for Medium creatures that might make good mounts. I'm literally throwing it together right now, so it won't be the most well-researched, and for now I'm just combing the monster manual's appendix. Thought I'd share the list here:

Ground-based mounts
Ape
With Int 6, probably closer to an NPC cohort, but certainly capable of carrying a halflings or gnome on its shoulders. The 30 ft. speed isn't much better than the rider's, but the 30 ft. climb speed is nice in a dungeon or the jungle/forest.
19 hp is okay, but going to feel fragile at later levels.
+2 to Dexterity saves isn't much, but every bit helps, especially if the rider has Mounted Combatant.
Black Bear
An impressive mount, to say the least, this is surprisingly Medium-sized, and has an Int of 2, suggesting it definitely is controlled.
The loss of attacks is a pain, since the black bear has reasonably good ones and a multiattack; I could see a rider dismounting to let his mount go into melee.
19 hp is still going to feel fragile later on.
No Dexterity Save bonus at all.
40 ft. move speed is quite nice, as is the 30 ft. climb speed!
Blink Dog
Definitely more of a friend/companion at 10 int and as a fey. Its move speed is akin to a mastiff's.
Question of whether a rider counts as "equipment it is wearing or carrying" for purposes of their teleport power. If not, this isn't all that much better than a mastiff for mount purposes.
22 hp is good for mid-levels, perhaps.
Boar
Another one that is exotic/scary, but as a controlled mount, the loss of Charge due to no attacking is a bit of a downer.
40 ft. speed
Relentless is alright, especially at lower level, as it might keep the critter alive to some lower-power AoEs. 7 or fewer damage is pretty limiting, though.
Death Dog
This one's a monstrosity, and most of what makes it scary will be looks when it's a controlled mount, since its multiattack isn't helpful.
Advantage on Wisdom(Perception) checks for two heads is nice, as is the bonus on saving throws against various conditions that rattle/affect the brain/senses.
40 ft. movement speed
39 hp actually start to look pretty durable at mid-levels, I think. This would be the biggest reason to try to upgrade your mastiff or pony to a death dog if you can.
The neutral evil alignment might be a turn-off for many parties, even though it's only Int 3.
Deer
At only 4 hp, way too fragile to rely on, however...
50 ft. movement could be nice while it lasts.
Giant Badger
13 hp make this a low-level mount only, most likely.
Only 30 ft. movement
That 10 ft. burrow speed is of questionable utility: ask your DM if you can share in it for potential shenanigans. He might rule you'd be knocked off, though.
Giant Crab
Technically a swimmer, but can also go on land at 30 ft. Not fast, but it's doable
Really silly-looking; are you sitting cross-legged on its back? Do you have a little chair strapped there?
Swims same speed it scuttles on land, so you can cross water pretty easily.
Blindsight 30 ft. could be potentially interesting, but you're not actually sharing its senses, so...
+4 to stealth might actually let this hang out with a stealthy rider.
15 hp, so not a mid-level mount.
Giant Frog
Like the crab, goes on land and water, but mentioning it here for its land uses.
Questionable that you could really ride it, but I can picture a few ways to maybe do it.
30 ft. movement (and swim)
The standing leap ability (20 ft. long jump and 10 ft. vertical) might be of use to a rider.
+3 to stealth might actually let this hang out with a stealthy rider, but I wouldn't count on it.
18 hp might make this (barely) survivable at mid levels.
Giant Poisonous Snake
11 hp and little in the way of useful abilities.
Does have 30 ft. swim speed to go with 30 ft. land speed, so can get you across water like the crab. Not amphibious. Could milk it for poison, but that's at your own risk.
Giant Weasel
40 ft. move speed, but only 9 hp.
+5 to stealth makes it one of the better mounts for if you really want to be hiding while mounted.
Giant Wolf Spider
11 hp is the biggest down side.
40 ft. speed, 40 ft. climb speed, and spider climb that lets it climb difficult surfaces and even walk around upside-down on ceilings without ability checks, makes this an amazing mount for mobility.
Web sense and web walker are mostly ribbons unless you are casting web a lot.
Can be milked for poison at your own risk.
Will likely require a very exotic saddle if you're going to ride it while it's walking on the walls, let alone the ceiling.
Goat
At 4 hp, it's not going to last long.
40 ft. movement is decent.
Sure-footed isn't likely to come up; anything that's knocking it prone is probably killing it, anyway.
Hyena
5 hp makes this one also pretty fragile.
50 ft. movement would be nice while it lasted.
Mastiff
40 ft. movement
Only 5 hp. Pretty fragile, despite being a classic mount.
Fewer hp and less carrying capacity than a pony, but 5 gp cheaper.
25 gp. As in, listed as buyable!
Mule
11 hp
40 ft. movement
Considered Large for carrying capacity!
Sure-footed (advantage on str and dex to avoid being knocked prone)
only 8 gp! So purchaseable and cheap! What the devil, WotC? This thing is better than the Mastiff and the Pony!
Panther
13 hp
50 ft. movement and climb 40; very fast and maneuverable.
Pounce is useless due to no attacking.
Stealth +6 is the highest so far!
Arguably very stylish for a *ahem* cat burglar.
Pony
11 hp
40 ft. movement
Better carrying capacity than a mastiff
30 gp (only 5 more than a mastiff). Purchaceable! ...but more expensive and less good at being a mount than a mule. Is this all about style points, 'cause riding a mule is uncool?
Wolf
11 hp, so better than a mastiff
40 ft. speed, just like a mastiff
Stealth +4 isn't terrible for, say, goblin riders who want to use their bonus action hiding.
Aquatic Mounts
Giant Crab
Covered above, but it is both amphibious and has a swim speed equal to its land speed, so if you can also go under water, it can carry you there.
Giant Frog
Also covered above, but is also amphibious and thus bears mention here.
Reef Shark
22 hit points! That's fairly durable for medium mounts!
Swim 40 ft. (obviously breathes water)
Fastest swimmer so far. Aquatic only, though.
Flying mounts
Giant Wasp
13 hp
10 ft. speed on land. 50 ft. flying speed, which is probably the only speed you'll really be using.
Vulture
10 ft. speed on land, 50 ft. flying speed. Technically no reason to ever stop using the flying speed, but some DMs might be less inclined to let it hover indefinitely than they would the wasp.
only 5 hp.
Definitely a particular aesthetic associated with the carrion-eating bird.

Overall, I think the giant wasp is my favorite, even with the lackluster hp.

The mule is probably the biggest "find" for me, here: hands-down the best mount listed with a purchase price in the PHB, and it's the cheapest, too!

The panther is also a rather impressive find for a stealthy character. If the DM lets a goblin rider include his mount in his own hide action (even if he makes the panther use its own check), it's pretty nice.

The giant wolf spider is second only to the wasp for sheer mobility.

[Gignere]

I would have it go right after the rider.