10th level character advices

[maxwell_wolfen]

Hello all, please give me your advice!!

I have entered in a new campaign and my character will begin at 10th level. Rolled stats are 18,17,15,13,13,11

Ok my DM have excluded anything out of Forgotten Realms cosmos, so no Ravnica or Eberron for example. He allowed me the ever-broken lore wizard...which i want to seriously give a chance, buuuut i am open to ideas from you. The party has a vengeance paladin, a warlock (undying light i believe) and an assassin rogue also at 10th level. I wanted something as powerful as i could think....to be honest i loved the Iron Wizard from LudicSavant and i was planning something similar but with the lore wizard chassis.

My idea was a hobgoblin 2lvl tempest cleric/8 lvl lore wizard. (ASI Resilient CON, maximizing INT). clad in full plate, shield

Please if you have anything else to suggest, i am all ears! either another build or optimizing the above one

[heavyfuel]

If you're dipping Cleric, why go Hobgoblin?

Hobgoblin Wizards are good because the ability scores are good but also because Light Armor Proficiency can save you a precious Mage Armor slot in Tiers 1 and 2. However, dipping Cleric makes this moot.

You can go Hobgoblin purely for the roleplay aspect and still be incredibly powerful (you're still a Wizard, and a broken Lore Wizard on top of that), but the race isn't offering you anything useful.

[maxwell_wolfen]

If you're dipping Cleric, why go Hobgoblin?

Hobgoblin Wizards are good because the ability scores are good but also because Light Armor Proficiency can save you a precious Mage Armor slot in Tiers 1 and 2. However, dipping Cleric makes this moot.

You can go Hobgoblin purely for the roleplay aspect and still be incredibly powerful (you're still a Wizard, and a broken Lore Wizard on top of that), but the race isn't offering you anything useful.

You got a point, although Hobgoblin gives (apart from a +1 INT) +2 CON , so with resilient CON i ll start the campaign with INT and CON 20...those are tons of HP..and Saving Face is good though..

ok i love Yuan Ti's but their +2 CHA is useless for a wizard build. Please i am open to suggestions though.

Variant Human with a starting feat (War Caster) can also be a good solution

[Bobthewizard]

The purpose of hobgoblin isn't to save the mage armor spell preparation and slot, it's to take the moderately armored feat at 4 and get half-plate and a shield without having to multi-class. With 14 dexterity, mage armor gets your AC to 15. Half-plate and shield gets it to 19.

Wall of Force is awesome. You want it. If you take a level of cleric, just take one level so you can still get 5th level spells. If you take cleric though, you are giving up the best mechanical benefit of going hobgoblin, which is medium armor and a shield for only one feat. So go ahead and use another race if you want.

[heavyfuel]

The purpose of hobgoblin isn't to save the mage armor spell preparation and slot, it's to take the moderately armored feat at 4 and get half-plate and a shield without having to multi-class. With 14 dexterity, mage armor gets your AC to 15. Half-plate and shield gets it to 19.

Wall of Force is awesome. You want it.

I think it's both. Saving the Mage Armor slot or slots is definitely big in Tier 1, and not everyone wants to rush Moderately Armored at 4th, so some people get it at 8th because they have some other feat they wat to take beforehand.

Completely agree with your second paragraph, though.

[maxwell_wolfen]

The purpose of hobgoblin isn't to save the mage armor spell preparation and slot, it's to take the moderately armored feat at 4 and get half-plate and a shield without having to multi-class. With 14 dexterity, mage armor gets your AC to 15. Half-plate and shield gets it to 19.

Wall of Force is awesome. You want it. If you take a level of cleric, just take one level so you can still get 5th level spells. If you take cleric though, you are giving up the best mechanical benefit of going hobgoblin, which is medium armor and a shield for only one feat. So go ahead and use another race if you want.

Good thought, i can always take the 2nd level cleric at 11 character level so that i can catch up with the 5th level wizard spells as you say. Noted. Which race would you suggest?

[Bobthewizard]

Good thought, i can always take the 2nd level cleric at 11 character level so that i can catch up with the 5th level wizard spells as you say. Noted. Which race would you suggest?

Anything you want. You can have a 20 INT with no racial bonus. Some people would say go plain human to round out those 5 odd stats, but I think that's a trap. Other races give you so much more and the even stats don't matter much for the 3-4 least important stats.

I like the hobgoblin pure wizard. The level 10 lore wizard ability to change out one prepared spell as a BA might be worth skipping the cleric dip.

If you dip cleric, anything with CON would be good. half-orc, Goliath, dwarf, goblin, stout halfling, genasi. I love the goblin's BA hide and disengage. Take booming blade and you are a competent melee character. Full plate and shield, hit them with booming blade, BA disengage and move back. If they move to get you, they take the booming blade rider. So for that, start with 15, 11, 17, 18, 13, 13 after race bonuses you have 15, 13, 18, 18, 13, 13. Then ASI or feats as you want.

Or skip the CON bonus and take resilient CON with one of the ASI's. Now, mechanically, you can play anything. What sounds fun?

[maxwell_wolfen]

Anything you want. You can have a 20 INT with no racial bonus. Some people would say go plain human to round out those 5 odd stats, but I think that's a trap. Other races give you so much more and the even stats don't matter much for the 3-4 least important stats.

I like the hobgoblin pure wizard. The level 10 lore wizard ability to change out one prepared spell as a BA might be worth skipping the cleric dip.

If you dip cleric, anything with CON would be good. half-orc, Goliath, dwarf, goblin, stout halfling, genasi. I love the goblin's BA hide and disengage. Take booming blade and you are a competent melee character. Full plate and shield, hit them with booming blade, BA disengage and move back. If they move to get you, they take the booming blade rider. So for that, start with 15, 11, 17, 18, 13, 13 after race bonuses you have 15, 13, 18, 18, 13, 13. Then ASI or feats as you want.

Or skip the CON bonus and take resilient CON with one of the ASI's. Now, mechanically, you can play anything. What sounds fun?

normally i would agree that a pure wizard build is great..but i love so much that maximized mechanic from tempest (together with lore wizards ability to change the spells damage type) albeit its once per short rest. Yuan ti for the magic resistance is also tempting.

Personally i prefer a tank wizard like the iron wizard concept but with no melee capabilities...tanking, blasting, controlling the battlefield etc

[heavyfuel]

Which race would you suggest?

Considering you have an 18 as a starting score, racial ability score bonuses aren't super important. You can spend a single ASI to get to 20 Int regardless. That being said:

VHuman is always a strong choice, and Wizards don't care as much about darkvision as, say, a Rogue does.

Yuan-Ti's poison immunity and magic resistance are both amazing.

[maxwell_wolfen]

Considering you have an 18 as a starting score, racial ability score bonuses aren't super important. You can spend a single ASI to get to 20 Int regardless. That being said:

VHuman is always a strong choice, and Wizards don't care as much about darkvision as, say, a Rogue does.

Yuan-Ti's poison immunity and magic resistance are both amazing.

gnome with its +2 INT could be also a good option (saving the ASI for a feat instead of maximizing INT)

[Chugger]

You can 1-dip to get ac and still have a lvl 5 spell slot to start. Wall of Force is an insanely powerful spell and really should be a lvl 6 or 7 spell. It lets you divide and conquer and the enemies you wall off from their allies do not get a saving throw - legendary ST also does not work on it. I guess you could wait til lvl 11 to get it if you really want 2 levels in some other class - I don't like being 2 levels behind on getting new spells, esp as a wiz, cuz wiz spells are great all the way up.

[Iku Rex]

I don't understand what is and isn't allowed for character generation.

Can you use rules from Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide (Forgotten Realms)?

I take it the DM tends to allow UA material?

Will you start with any magic items?

[maxwell_wolfen]

I don't understand what is and isn't allowed for character generation.

Can you use rules from Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide (Forgotten Realms)?

I take it the DM tends to allow UA material?

Will you start with any magic items?


he excluded Eberron, Ravnica and Wildemount material. as for magic items YES
i can take choose 1 rare (probably cloak of displacement)
3 uncommon (shield+1, adamantine full plater, ring of protection +1)
and 6.250 gp

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

he excluded Eberron, Ravnica and Wildemount material. as for magic items YES
i can take choose 1 rare (probably cloak of displacement)
3 uncommon (shield+1, adamantine full plater, ring of protection +1)
and 6.250 gp

Ring of Protection is rare, the Cloak of Protection is uncommon. Luckily 5e doesn't have magic item slots, it's up to the DM whether you could wear two cloaks. While wearing two pairs of boots or two pairs of gloves or even two hats/helmets isn't realistic, two cloaks was actually done fairly often when it was very cold back in the old days.

Get a Broom of Flying.

[maxwell_wolfen]

Ring of Protection is rare, the Cloak of Protection is uncommon. Luckily 5e doesn't have magic item slots, it's up to the DM whether you could wear two cloaks. While wearing two pairs of boots or two pairs of gloves or even two hats/helmets isn't realistic, two cloaks was actually done fairly often when it was very cold back in the old days.

Get a Broom of Flying.

aww yeap mea culpa!. Unfortunately he doesn't allow 2 cloaks simultaneously...:smallsigh:

broom of flying as you suggested or the boots of flying are good options too

[Keravath]

There are lots of options ...

Yuan-ti pure blood ... 19 int and 17 con to start. Take observant and resilient con as feats getting to 20 int and 18 con at level 10. Start with one level of cleric for medium or heavy armor depending on archetype (I like knowledge for the skills but it depends on your campaign) then 9 levels of wizard so that you have 5th level spells. Either 15 str for heavy armor or 15 dex for medium armor. Hobgoblin is similar starting with 19 int and 19 con - then two half feats to max int and con.

You could do the same with any type of gnome except that you would start with 20 int and have an extra feat/ASI on top of resilient con. Gnome gets advantage on mental saves.

If you really want to maintain concentration on spells (which might be very important for your campaign) then .. variant human, take the war caster feat at level 1. ASI +2 int to 20 and resilient con to 18 con. 1 level cleric for the armor and shield and then 9 levels of wizard. This is otherwise the same as the yuan-ti except trading war caster for the yuan-ti race abilities - immunity to poison, darkvision, magic resistance. (Variant human also has a +1 to a secondary stat that doesn't matter that much in this case ... similar to the +2 charisma on the yuan-ti).

[heavyfuel]

@OP

Are you sure you want to dip Cleric? Looking at your stats, you might be better off sticking to full-wizard.

Mage Armor + 16 Dex means AC 16. Dipping Cleric means you can go Full plate and shield for 20, but you delay your spells and you have worse initiatiative and dex saves, plus, you'll need a 15 in Str anyway.

Personally, I don't think the tradeoff is worth it


(Variant human also has a +1 to a secondary stat that doesn't matter that much in this case ... similar to the +2 charisma on the yuan-ti).

Well, a +1 to a tertiary stat means the 15 becomes a 16.

[maxwell_wolfen]

There are lots of options ...

Yuan-ti pure blood ... 19 int and 17 con to start. Take observant and resilient con as feats getting to 20 int and 18 con at level 10. Start with one level of cleric for medium or heavy armor depending on archetype (I like knowledge for the skills but it depends on your campaign) then 9 levels of wizard so that you have 5th level spells. Either 15 str for heavy armor or 15 dex for medium armor. Hobgoblin is similar starting with 19 int and 19 con - then two half feats to max int and con.

You could do the same with any type of gnome except that you would start with 20 int and have an extra feat/ASI on top of resilient con. Gnome gets advantage on mental saves.

If you really want to maintain concentration on spells (which might be very important for your campaign) then .. variant human, take the war caster feat at level 1. ASI +2 int to 20 and resilient con to 18 con. 1 level cleric for the armor and shield and then 9 levels of wizard. This is otherwise the same as the yuan-ti except trading war caster for the yuan-ti race abilities - immunity to poison, darkvision, magic resistance. (Variant human also has a +1 to a secondary stat that doesn't matter that much in this case ... similar to the +2 charisma on the yuan-ti).

yuan ti (magic resistance!)
starting stats are
11 str
13 dex
17 con +1 resilient CON =18
18 int + 1 from race + 1 from ASI =20
15 wis +1 from ASI = 16
13 cha +2 from race = 15\

hobgoblin (saving face)
11 str
13 dex
17 con +2 from race, +1 resilient CON =20
18 int +1 from race, +1 ASI =20
15 wis + 1 from ASI =16
13 cha

variant human (+war caster feat or another feat)
11 str
13 dex
17 con + 1 race, +1 ASI, +1 resilient CON =20
18 int +1 race +1 ASI = 20
wis 15
cha 13

[maxwell_wolfen]

@OP

Are you sure you want to dip Cleric? Looking at your stats, you might be better off sticking to full-wizard.

Mage Armor + 16 Dex means AC 16. Dipping Cleric means you can go Full plate and shield for 20, but you delay your spells and you have worse initiatiative and dex saves, plus, you'll need a 15 in Str anyway.

Personally, I don't think the tradeoff is worth it



Well, a +1 to a tertiary stat means the 15 becomes a 16.

cleric offers heavy armor and shield prof, alltogether i do get a 20 AC (without shield spell), also i like the idea of a tempest cleric that maximizes damage on every spell (because you can alter it as a lore wizard) albeit once per short rest.
initiative due to lore wizard is +5 (from int)

sure i am torn between a full wizard or 2 level cleric dip

[SirGraystone]

Cleric will also give you guidance, and low level healing spell like cure wound and healing word but that can be upcast with higher level spell slots from wizard.