Polearm Master Paladin Advice

[Nosta]

I'm planning a level 10 character for the game I'll be. In and want a diva polearm weilding palafldin but I am unsure if my race

Human seems easy but I kinda want a differt race

[Man_Over_Game]

I'm planning a level 10 character for the game I'll be. In and want a diva polearm weilding palafldin but I am unsure if my race

Human seems easy but I kinda want a differt race

Vengeance Paladin is probably the go-to for a PAM Paladin build, as they have natural abilities targeted for aggression, 10ft reach, and Opportunity Attacks.

Vengeance Paladin also happens to have the least amount of reliance on Charisma than any other Paladin subclass.



Combining both aspects, you probably don't need a race that gives you Charisma, and can probably focus strictly on aggression and offense. So...Half-Orc?

[heavyfuel]

Have you rolled stats or are you using point buy?

Advice will be drastically different depending on your answer (and your rolled stats if you go this route)

Half-orc is nice, but if you rolled an 18 you can put that in Str, spend an ASI, and not worry about a race's ability score bonuses.

[Willie the Duck]

Human (variant) to pick up PAM at L1 would indeed be easy. Just max Str from there by L8 and the rest speaks for itself.

[CTurbo]

I agree with Vhuman Vengeance Paladin with PAM at level 1.

Half-Orc, Goliath, or Bugbear would be fun too though. Bugbear would give 15ft reach.

If you want Devotion for sure, I highly recommend a race that will allow you to start with 16 Cha. Vhuman would be definitely the best option.

I would 100% stay single classed. No Hexblade dip like most people insist on.

[GlenSmash!]

I agree with Vhuman Vengeance Paladin with PAM at level 1.

Half-Orc, Goliath, or Bugbear would be fun too though. Bugbear would give 15ft reach.

If you want Devotion for sure, I highly recommend a race that will allow you to start with 16 Cha. Vhuman would be definitely the best option.

I would 100% stay single classed. No Hexblade dip like most people insist on.

Agreed. Especially on that last bit. PAM paladins benefit the most from Improved divine smite so stick with Paladin to 11 (assuming your campaign goes that far)

[jojosskul]

Fallen Aasimar is a good alternative to start with 16s in both Str and Cha if you want to go that route, but I'd still max Str first after you grab Polearm master.

Or, you know, if you don't want to be human and if your DM is using the new Tasha's rules your stat bonuses are floating anyway. In that case choose based on what you think would look cool, or has abilities that compliment your playstyle.

Only restriction there really is no small races because of heavy weapon issues.

[Rerem115]

Only restriction there really is no small races because of heavy weapon issues.

Not necessarily! Quarterstaves are eligible for PAM, as are spears after recent errata, so while you'd sacrifice Reach and the potential to take GWM, there's nothing stopping you from playing a 1-handed with shield PAM gnome/halfling/goblin/etc.

[heavyfuel]

so while you'd sacrifice [...] the potential to take GWM

Paladins (especially at lv 11) care too deeply about weapon hits to use GWM effectively.

[Man_Over_Game]

Paladins (especially at lv 11) care too deeply about weapon hits to use GWM effectively.

Depends on the build. Vengeance Paladin isn't going to be using much of your Saving Throw spells, due to the fact that your Charisma is probably lacking, and it grants Advantage on each of your attacks as your Channel Divinity. Divine Smite also spends a resource to activate when you do hit, meaning that fewer hits just means you end up with more sustainability.

As far as GWM-spammers, the Vengeance Paladin is almost as effective at it as a Samurai, and it's only a contest by that point due to the fact that the Samurai gets more attacks.

[da newt]

If you are looking for alternates, I enjoy Bugbears w/ PAM - the synergy can be fun. Also I'm a fan of the oath of Conquest which can make for all sorts of 'I can hit you, but you can't hit me' w/ reach.

[KorvinStarmast]

I have a friend who played a Mountain Dwarf Paladin whose first two ASI choices were feats. I'll ask him what his build order was. He played from level 1 through 20.

[Mercureality]

I'm planning a level 10 character for the game I'll be. In and want a diva polearm weilding palafldin but I am unsure if my race

Human seems easy but I kinda want a differt race

Variant Human is *the* choice for PAM builds for a reason. They're feat hungry, and v. human is the only way you have PAM, Sentinel, and maybe GWM by anything resembling a reasonable level. Starting at level 10 mitigates the pain though, so you do have the luxury of not going v. human without feeling like you're playing an incomplete character.

Half-Elf is a natural fit. You can easily start with 16 str, 16 cha, and 14 con even with standard array, and lets you pick up Elven Accuracy (note that this won't work with a PAM build, only hexblade dips, those wielding finesse weapons AND using Dex as the attacking attribute, or shenanigans with spells or multiclass abilities that allow you to use one of the listed attributes in EA as your attack attribute. Sorry!), which goes great with the advantage granted by Vengeance's Vow of Enmity. It also meshes well with Conquest, which is a fantastic battlefield control vow. It's a common choice though, and I get the impression you want something more exotic?

As others have mentioned, one of the flavors of aasimar can offer a lot. Triton and Yuan Ti Pureblood from Volo's guide are good. Warforged are great. Convince your DM to let you play a fantasy version of robocop, even if you're not in eberron.

I am also going to suggest not dipping Hexblade, despite the fact that starting at level 10 skips most of the pain involved with that build. PAM offers multiple attacks, and if you go pure Paladin, you'll get Improved Divine Smite just one level after your campaign begins, which works great with IDS and contributes a lot of damage across a typical adventuring day, especially with 3 attacks per round, plus a possible reaction attacks from PAM (and sentinel if you take it at some point, which is strongly suggested since it rounds out your action economy in addition to its other benefits). An extra 3d8/4d8 per round of combat, every round of combat, is very strong. You'll also skip the pain that multiclassing inflicts on your ASIs. I'd go PAM at 4, sentinel at 8, and you can start pumping strength at 12 or grab GWM if your party is helping grant advantage frequently.

[Mikal]

I’d go with conquest and V human myself.

Lock them down at 10 ft they can’t escape and you can whack them with them usually unable to retaliate

[heavyfuel]

Depends on the build. Vengeance Paladin isn't going to be using much of your Saving Throw spells, due to the fact that your Charisma is probably lacking, and it grants Advantage on each of your attacks as your Channel Divinity. Divine Smite also spends a resource to activate when you do hit, meaning that fewer hits just means you end up with more sustainability.

As far as GWM-spammers, the Vengeance Paladin is almost as effective at it as a Samurai, and it's only a contest by that point due to the fact that the Samurai gets more attacks.

By level 11, you're getting an additional d8 to every hit, so GWM stops being worth it pretty much ever. Unless OP intends to play this character at level 10 and only lv 10, GWM is a trap.

Even then, I'll take a hit with an additional 2d8 than a miss. Yea yea, you can choose when you smite. I know that.

But you're also limited by the number of rounds in you average combat. Assuming OP's not going to be the only character dealing damage, then we're looking at 3 rounds of intense combat before if basically becomes clean up the remaining minions. So wasting your attack because you decided to take the -5 to your roll means wasting 1/6th of your actions (two attacks per action).

And because of PAM, you already have a decent use of your Bonus Action, so half the feat is wasted. (dealing d10+d8+5 to an enemy you don't choose is on par or worse than dealing d4+d8+5 to an enemy you do choose)

For a PAM Pally, I'd take a Cha ASI or Res (Con) or Warcaster or Lucky over GWM any day, especially so close to Tier 3.

[Gignere]

Variant Human is *the* choice for PAM builds for a reason. They're feat hungry, and v. human is the only way you have PAM, Sentinel, and maybe GWM by anything resembling a reasonable level. Starting at level 10 mitigates the pain though, so you do have the luxury of not going v. human without feeling like you're playing an incomplete character.

Half-Elf is a natural fit. You can easily start with 16 str, 16 cha, and 14 con even with standard array, and lets you pick up Elven Accuracy, which goes great with the advantage granted by Vengeance's Vow of Enmity. It also meshes well with Conquest, which is a fantastic battlefield control vow. It's a common choice though, and I get the impression you want something more exotic?

As others have mentioned, one of the flavors of aasimar can offer a lot. Triton and Yuan Ti Pureblood from Volo's guide are good. Warforged are great. Convince your DM to let you play a fantasy version of robocop, even if you're not in eberron.

I am also going to suggest not dipping Hexblade, despite the fact that starting at level 10 skips most of the pain involved with that build. PAM offers multiple attacks, and if you go pure Paladin, you'll get Improved Divine Smite just one level after your campaign begins, which works great with IDS and contributes a lot of damage across a typical adventuring day, especially with 3 attacks per round, plus a possible reaction attacks from PAM (and sentinel if you take it at some point, which is strongly suggested since it rounds out your action economy in addition to its other benefits). An extra 3d8/4d8 per round of combat, every round of combat, is very strong. You'll also skip the pain that multiclassing inflicts on your ASIs. I'd go PAM at 4, sentinel at 8, and you can start pumping strength at 12 or grab GWM if your party is helping grant advantage frequently.

Elven accuracy only works with non strength base attacks so it is one of the worst feats for a PAM Paladin.

Dropping polearm and hitting with a -1 modifier is probably suboptimal even with super advantage.

[AttilatheYeon]

For vengeance pally sentinel has stronger tactical uses over GWM. When a mob moves into your hitbox you can OA them with PAM then drop there movement to 0 from sentinel. Then as part of that OA reaction, move half your speed to reposition yourself.

[Chugger]

Elven accuracy only works with non strength base attacks so it is one of the worst feats for a PAM Paladin.

Dropping polearm and hitting with a -1 modifier is probably suboptimal even with super advantage.

But you can 1dip hexblade and make your polearm attack a charisma attack, except er...I lie - I think you need 3 lvls of warlock. I can't remember when hexblade can use a 2 hander as pact weapon. Anyway, with a hexblade dip you can do it, but is it worth it? Maybe.

[AttilatheYeon]

But you can 1dip hexblade and make your polearm attack a charisma attack, except er...I lie - I think you need 3 lvls of warlock. I can't remember when hexblade can use a 2 hander as pact weapon. Anyway, with a hexblade dip you can do it, but is it worth it? Maybe.

It's level 3 and an invocation. Not super worth it. Especially since he's then leaving an ASI on the table. That means no PAM.

[Frogreaver]

There's lots of cool PAM paladins.

PAM lets you do good damage if you invest in str with it.
PAM can be used as a way to shore up damage so you can invest more in CHA.
PAM pairs well with heavy armor master if you start with 15 str due to a race with no str bonus.

There's tons of options. The question is more about your vision. Do you want to go all out damage or be more well rounded?

[CTurbo]

I would 100% avoid both Warlock and Great Weapon Master.

All you need is pure Pally with PAM and a good Str and Cha.

[Frogreaver]

I would 100% avoid both Warlock and Great Weapon Master.

All you need is pure Pally with PAM and a good Str and Cha.

If he uses a spear instead of halbred I would highly recommend a 1 level hedblade dip. He's the perfect level to pick up the dip IMO. He can build to just keep enough str for heavy armor and go rest in charisma. Opens up race choices a bit more too. As long as he finds one with +cha he is great!

I fully agree on GWM.

[Quietus]

For something like this, I have for quite a while wanted to run a vengeance paladin who starts with 16 str/14 con/16 cha, and takes PAM at 4, then Sentinel at 8. Use a big old two-hander with reach, and when something comes within 10 feet of you, slap them, make them stop, and then reposition 15 feet away. Completely locks down anything with less than 15 feet of reach, and should fairly reliably be able to throw 3 attacks per turn, plus a reaction, possibly plus Haste.

[Sol0botmate]

There are 3 ways to do it:

1. Classic Vengeance Vuman path:

16 STR, 16 CHA, PAM, +2 STR, GWM by level 8. This combines well with Vow of Enmity and allows for a lot of damage to be dealth vs bosses where VoE can be used. Otherwise I like Dvine Favour + PAM In fights vs more enemies as extra 1d4 radiant adds up fast with 3 attacks per turn. Later Haste is my go-to self buff once I get War Caster or RES (CON).

2. Conquest Paladin Vuman

16 STR, 16 CHA. War Caster/RES (CON), +2 CHA, +2 CHA. Althugh we won't be taking PAM Feat here, we will be still using Glaive as it has 10 feet range and our Aura + Fear spell can lock down enemies 10 feet from us, giving us free attacks out of their range. We want to max out CHA because of Aura and our spell DC (Fear resist) and we want to keep concentration. We don't need PAM extra attack as Conquest has Spiritual Weapon spell for that.

3. Hexblade 1/Vengeance Paladin Half-Elf

17 CHA at start. Elven Accuracy +1 CHA, War Caster. You use Spear/Quarterstaff + Shield here. When you VoE enemy you attack 3 times with double advantage thanks to EA. Use Curse to crit fish on 19-20 range and burn smites only on crits to maximize smites economy. Best thing is you attack from CHA here, so you only need to invest in CHA for attacks, aura and spells DC. And you get Booming Blade OAs thanks to Hexblade + War Caster.

Those are basic templates.

[jojosskul]

Not necessarily! Quarterstaves are eligible for PAM, as are spears after recent errata, so while you'd sacrifice Reach and the potential to take GWM, there's nothing stopping you from playing a 1-handed with shield PAM gnome/halfling/goblin/etc.

I completely spaced on that! And now I want a noble halfling paladin riding his summoned mastiff steed smiting infidels with his spear and shield as my next character.

[Warped Wiseman]

I'm currently playing a Goliath Vengeance Paladin (started at 3, now at 17), and that is working well for me.

The stat boosts are good (str and con) and stone's endurance is good for maintaining your buffs through big hits (it reduces the concentration check dc by an average of 6.5 before adding in your con mod, ie increases success chance by 32%). The only downside is that my charisma has lagged (14), so aura of protection isn't as minmaxed as it could be, but that doesn't stop me from smashing my foe's face in with a 5th level spirit shroud three times in a round, and smiting on top of it.

[Pex]

Level 1

15 ST 8 DX 14 CO 8 IN 10 WI 15 CH
Variant Human, +1 ST, +1 CH - Pole Arm Master

Level 2: Fighting Style - Defense

When you get spells: Shield of Faith or as needed Protection From Evil to shore up defense. Divine Favor if desired for offense without smiting. Let the cleric Bless.

Level 4
Sentinel

Still casting Shield of Faith, Protection From Evil, Divine Favor. Doing smites on crits against bags of hit points like ogres and against undead.

Level 6: Enjoy +3 to all your saving throws.

Level 8
ST 18

Have room for more smites. Spellcasting is what you feel like doing and appropriate to the situation.

If you have a nice magic weapon at this point that is +1 plus extra stuff CH 18 instead is worth considering.

Level 12
CH 18

You'll need and appreciate the additional +1 to saving throws.

If you bumped CH earlier then ST 18 whether it's same magic weapon or even better.

Level 16
CH 20

It's all about the saving throws at this point.

Level 19
ST 20

Of course there's no guarantee of any one particular magic item, but here are a few that would be helpful if you happen to get one:

Animated Shield - get the shield bonus and still use your pole arm weapon normally.

Belt of Giant Strength - Any, making it easier to bump CH or get another feat.

Adamantine Plate Mail - Any non-cursed magical plate mail is great, especially those that are +1 or more. Do wear one without regret if one happens along, but avoiding the spiked damage from crits helps a lot.

[Mercureality]

Elven accuracy only works with non strength base attacks so it is one of the worst feats for a PAM Paladin.

Dropping polearm and hitting with a -1 modifier is probably suboptimal even with super advantage.

Bah, you're right. The last paladin I built was able to make great use of it, and I wasn't thinking. I'll edit accordingly.