Seeing ghosts, possessions, and other incorporial beings

[RittenRemedy]

Incorporeal beings, how much flexibility do I have with what the players see without breaking The Rules? Like for example, say a person is possessed by a ghost. Would it make sense for the ghost to maybe try to scare the players (lol) through a brief, harmless illusion of a scary face? While in a body (ooo or maybe a doll hehe)?

Most importantly, does that kind of thing work within the flexibility of the rules? I don't want to do "well I'm the dm and I say so." It's not listed as an ability, and it's close enough to spells I wonder if a ghost or even something like an angel be able to do a little illusion or other paranormal activity. How would I run that kind of thing?

Edit: 5e ruleset, homebrew world lore

[GentlemanVoodoo]

Incorporeal beings, how much flexibility do I have with what the players see without breaking The Rules? Like for example, say a person is possessed by a ghost. Would it make sense for the ghost to maybe try to scare the players (lol) through a brief, harmless illusion of a scary face? While in a body (ooo or maybe a doll hehe)?

Most importantly, does that kind of thing work within the flexibility of the rules? I don't want to do "well I'm the dm and I say so." It's not listed as an ability, and it's close enough to spells I wonder if a ghost or even something like an angel be able to do a little illusion or other paranormal activity. How would I run that kind of thing?

Depends on what system your using so need further clarification in that regard to answer properly.

But for what your describing this seems to be just an NPC interaction. So I would say on general principal there is no harm in such things just playing out as you describe them. I see no reason having to do something rules wise or create an ability just for this personally.

[RittenRemedy]

Depends on what system your using so need further clarification in that regard to answer properly.

But for what your describing this seems to be just an NPC interaction. So I would say on general principal there is no harm in such things just playing out as you describe them. I see no reason having to do something rules wise or create an ability just for this personally.

Sorry sometimes I get kinda lost in how this forum is organized. Thanks for the input. We're using standard 5e ruleset with a homebrew lore. I am modifying a few things, which the players are aware of, because yet another large, spiky monster doesn't scare me. So I've got a few demons running around, and I'd love for ways to show them recognizing each other in a way my players will actually notice or just to have some fun with it.

Any ideas are welcome!

[Mastikator]

Looking at the Ghost (https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Ghost#content)encounter
As far as I can tell from the description of the Possession action: the ghost is still allowed to use Horrifying Visage and Withering Touch. However I think Etherealness and Incorporeal Movement would end the possession (unless the target of the possession also has these movement options, which seems unlikely to me).

If I were you I'd start with thinking of a reason why the ghost is there in the first place, use that as a basis for the motivations of the ghost and add any special abilities it absolutely needs. If you add any abilities you should also either change the challenge rating or take something else away. You're allowed to make homebrew monsters as a DM.

[Dr paradox]

Looking at the Ghost (https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Ghost#content)encounter
As far as I can tell from the description of the Possession action: the ghost is still allowed to use Horrifying Visage and Withering Touch. However I think Etherealness and Incorporeal Movement would end the possession (unless the target of the possession also has these movement options, which seems unlikely to me).


Sounds like that's plenty right there. A use of Horrifying Visage would seem to suggest some kind of ghostly visual effect around the face, could be the ghost lunging out, could be the possessed person's face becoming suddenly corpse-like (milky eyes, pale skin alive with maggots, seeming to decompose rapidly, peeling their own face off Poltergeist-style, go crazy.)

If you're just looking for a way to indicate this person is possessed, there's plenty you can do with body language. Jerky motions, eyes rolled back, mouth gaping with a wheezing inhalation. You could go so far as crabwalking and an exorcist neck-spin, but that's more of the Dybbuk's (https://5e.tools/bestiary/dybbuk-mtf.html) wheelhouse.

Did the ghost in question have any class levels? If they were a caster of any kind, they could reasonably have the Thaumaturgy or Prestidigitation cantrips for some harmless haunting effects, slamming doors, booming voice. Heck, depending on their level you could give them any number of spells to pull off a good haunting. Unseen Servant or even Mage Hand can move objects around a room, Gust for a blast of ice-cold tomb wind, Earth Tremor to give the feeling hell itself is opening, Heat Metal to suddenly scald the candelabra out of someone's hand, Levitate for a Bent-neck-lady impression, Misty Step to cheat your way into jump scares, Conjure Animals to produce some natural backup in the form of rats, crows, or a midnight black hound. Silence doesn't have much of a direct horror movie analogue, but I think it could be intimidating if things are going crazy, homeowners are screaming, the possessed person is advancing, and it's all dead silent. That's all pretty low-level magic, easily in the grasp of a third level hedge-wizard.

[Glorthindel]

Depends a bit on the setting and flavour you are trying to accomplish. Going by the rules, Ghosts (and other traditionally 'horror' themed monsters) can be just another stat block, which does somewhat detract from what they are meant to be, which is fine for a high fantasy setting. But if you are playing a more low magic or near-reality setting, these creatures should evoke more of a visceral dread than their statblock does.

I have copies of the old 2nd/3rd ed Van Richtens Monster Hunter Guides for the Ravenloft setting. Each of these guides takes a traditional 'horror' monster (Vampire, Werebeast, Golem, Ghost, etc), and focusses on turning the creatures into more than just a tough statblock. The Guide to Ghosts focussed on drawing Ghosts away from straight up combat encounters, and directed the DM towards turning them into investigations; making them virtually invulnerable without the party establishing the history behind the ghost (who they were in life, their hopes and desires, how they died, why they didn't pass on normally. etc), and having their behavoir tied to the events of their life and death (how and why they attack the party, and how they act in possession. Are they trying to complete a task they failed, or trying to seek revenge on someone or something now impossibly out of their reach).

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff: Moved to the 5e section.

[Unoriginal]

Incorporeal beings, how much flexibility do I have with what the players see without breaking The Rules? Like for example, say a person is possessed by a ghost. Would it make sense for the ghost to maybe try to scare the players (lol) through a brief, harmless illusion of a scary face? While in a body (ooo or maybe a doll hehe)?

Most importantly, does that kind of thing work within the flexibility of the rules? I don't want to do "well I'm the dm and I say so." .


But if you're the DM, you're literally the one who decides what is within the rules because you say so. In fact there is no other rules than the ones you decided to be the rules by saying so.

Plus homebrewing a few additional abilities won't hurt the encounter.

For example you could take the Poltergeist and replace its telekinesis by mind-affecting powers.

Otherwise you can take any incorporeal being and give it Lair Effects and Lair Actions to be able to do all kind of spooky, horror-movie-style phenomenons.

[RittenRemedy]

Thanks this is all so good!