Divine Spells for Sorcerer

[Vetril]

Hi, I want to put 2 specific divine spells on a Sorcerer's spell list.

1: Holy Word.
2: Visage of the Deity.

Is it possible to do it? If so, what's the simplest (and less likely to raise eyebrows) way you can think of?

I'm not interested in opinions on the 2 spells. Thank you!

[Ramza00]

Arcane Disciple Twice, once for Mysticism Domain, the other time for the Good Domain.

Edit: Forgot the Mysticism domain also gives Holy Word as well, so you only need to take this feat once. Likewise as Thurbane mentioned Domain Access is another alternative that is very similar. 1 less spell known of each level starting with 1 and 2, but eventually 7,8,9 but in return you get the 1 / day benefit of each spell level without needing the wisdom Arcane Disciple requires.

If One a Day is not enough then do a rune staff for 3x more times a day using your spell slot, and a traditional staff if 4x a day is not enough.

[Toliudar]

The simplest way I can think of is to have the sorcerer research an arcane version of those spells and add them to their spells known, as outlined on (I'm told) pg 198 of the DMG.

[Wildstag]

Dragon Magazine 343 has the feat "Divine Sorcery", which allows you to take a single spell from a domain list per day and put it in your Sorcerer spell list. It also gives you the granted power of that domain. Could be useful for Holy Word, probably, since Arcane Disciple calculates DC based off of your Wisdom, which probably isn't going to be as high as your Charisma modifier.

Arcane Disciple is probably the better way to get Visage of the Deity though.

[Biggus]

Is it Visage of the Deity and not Greater Visage of the Deity you want? The latter seems to have more to offer a Sorcerer.

Arcane Disciple is the only entirely non-controversial method I know of as it's the only one which explicitly allows arcane casters to cast normally-divine spells. However, it's also the most inconvenient since as well as Wisdom being the key attribute for Holy Word's saves, you need a high Wis to even cast the spells (which could otherwise have been a dump stat) and you need 4 ranks in Knowledge (Religion) which is cross-class for Sorcerers. Oh, and if you're taking it for both spells, you need to find a deity who grants both the domains you need.

So, I'd run all the other options past your DM first before resorting to Arcane Disciple. In addition to the options already mentioned, some DMs allow you to learn spells from other spell lists using the Extra Spell feat.

[Thurbane]

An alternative to Arcane Disciple is the ACF Domain Access (Complete Champion) where a Sorcerer trades a bunch of spells known for access to a single domain. It's not a great ACF to be honest, the trade-off in lost spells isn't really worth it.

4 levels in Wyrm Wizard could get you both spells. You'd lose 2 caster levels, and require the Arcane Preparation feat + one metamagic feat.

[Rebel7284]

Custom Runestaff+UMD could work too. I would ask about spell research first though. There is text in the sorcerer description if I recall correctly that even references that some sorcerers know "obscure spells" and folks take it as intent to let sorcerers learn things outside the sorcerer/wizard list

[Eldonauran]

Adding Spells to a Sorcerer’s or Bard’s Repertoire (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#sorcerersAndBards)
A sorcerer or bard gains spells each time he attains a new level in his class and never gains spells any other way. When your sorcerer or bard gains a new level, consult Table: The Bard or Table: Sorcerer Spells Known to learn how many spells from the appropriate spell list he now knows. With permission, sorcerers and bards can also select the spells they gain from new and unusual spells that they have gained some understanding of.
Or, as someone already said, you can research the spell.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Complete Divine p20, Extra Domains:

...If the noncleric is a spontaneous
caster like a sorcerer or favored soul, then she may select a
domain spell to add to her spells known whenever she would
have an option to choose a new known spell. A sorcerer does
not get to exceed his normal limit of spells known. Once
the domain spell is known, the sorcerer may cast it freely.
Unless the prestige class specifi es otherwise, such spells are
considered arcane spells when cast by arcane spellcasters.

Granted that's in the context of gaining an extra domain from a prestige class. This rule does not apply to Arcane Disciple, which still has the one domain spell per day per spell level limitation written into the feat itself. You just can't include a level of Cleric in your build, otherwise the domain gets added to Cleric instead of Sorcerer.

The easiest way to gain a domain is to gain the ability to cast 1st level divine spells and take one level of Contemplative. You can take a level of Druid, or Archivist, or Favored Soul, or even Adept, or one level of any of the various prestige classes that grants its own spellcasting progression. You can use Knowledge Devotion to get Knowledge: Religion as a class skill for your whole career, or take Able Learner and make sure your divine dip has it as a class skill, since Contemplative requires 13 ranks in that. You'll be 18/20 Sorcerer casting and 2nd level in your divine class, barring Mystic Theurge or similar. You can make a kobold with the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage to be 19/20 Sorcerer instead.

For your one Contemplative domain, pick Mysticism. That gets both Holy Word (or Blasphemy if you're evil) and all three versions of Visage of the Deity (Lesser, normal, and Greater).

[sreservoir]

Holy Word's save only applies to the banishment effect. You're quite unlikely to care about the save DC as long as enough have enough Wisdom to cast the spell.

[Ruethgar]

Sorcerers can know any spell they are familiar with, it’s right there in the PHB. No need for any list changing effects or obscure sources.

[Thurbane]

Sorcerers can know any spell they are familiar with, it’s right there in the PHB. No need for any list changing effects or obscure sources.

That's a somewhat controversial and problematic reading of that passage. I've seen multi-page long threads debating exactly what that means. TBH, its very poorly worded - if they intended for Sorcerer to learn spells off any list, they should have been MUCH more clear about it.

For instance, using that reading, at what spell level does Holy Word appear on the Sorcerer spell list?

[Anthrowhale]

Olin Gisir 8 (LEoF) adds Holy Word directly to your spells known without losing a level of spellcasting. It's an ok class, sort of like Loremaster for elves.

Another trick is Dragonblood Spell-pact (DoF) which is a 5th level sorcerer spell allowing exchange of known spells amongst dragonblood creatures. Some dragons know cleric spells.

[lylsyly]

And Olin Gisir (Lost Empires of Faerun, p.21) specifically states that they are bonus spells known so you won't be limited to once a day ;-). It's actually not that bad of a prestige class.

[Thurbane]

Olin Gisir 8 (LEoF) adds Holy Word directly to your spells known without losing a level of spellcasting. It's an ok class, sort of like Loremaster for elves.

Another trick is Dragonblood Spell-pact (DoF) which is a 5th level sorcerer spell allowing exchange of known spells amongst dragonblood creatures. Some dragons know cleric spells.

And Olin Gisir (Lost Empires of Faerun, p.21) specifically states that they are bonus spells known so you won't be limited to once a day ;-). It's actually not that bad of a prestige class.

Nice - wasn't aware of that PrC. Going to look into it further.

Also, good call on Dragonblood Spell-pact. You don't even need a true dragon - if you can find a high enough level Favored Soul who knows the spell, and they are dragon-blooded, you can do it that way. You do need to be dragon-blooded yourself for it to work, though.

[Anthrowhale]

Also, good call on Dragonblood Spell-pact. You don't even need a true dragon - if you can find a high enough level Favored Soul who knows the spell, and they are dragon-blooded, you can do it that way. You do need to be dragon-blooded yourself for it to work, though.

You don't need to be dragonblooded either, except when you cast the spell. This is easily achieved via polymorph[kobold]. (And you don't need to be dragonblooded to _learn_ dragonblood spell-pact. You just need that to cast it.) A Favored Souls can leverage Dragonblood spellpact better than Sorcerers due to their large number of spells known.

[Thurbane]

Another option I just stumbled across is Recaster (Races of Eberron): a 4/5 casting progression PrC that allows you to add two spells from any class list to your own class list, so long as they are 1 level lower than your maximum available spell level.