Best Melee Tempest Cleric Build

[CMCC]

I’m looking to see people’s builds for the titular character here.

I’m probably going with a mix of a tempest 8/ blood hunter 2/ tempest x

I know there is another thread with tempest build advice but that has no multi-classing which greatly limits the possibilities.

I also will take war caster and magic initiate (booming blade/ shocking grasp/ find familiar), and I’m not sure what after that.

One build I’m not particularly interested in is the tempest 2/ storm sorcerer 18 build. I don’t think it synergizes particularly well and the pure blasting aspect doesn’t appeal to me.

I know of the treantmonk stormlord build. Happy to discuss that one too if it comes up :)

[Mikal]

I’m looking to see people’s builds for the titular character here.

I’m probably going with a mix of a tempest 8/ blood hunter 2/ tempest x

I know there is another thread with tempest build advice but that has no multi-classing which greatly limits the possibilities.

I also will take war caster and magic initiate (booming blade/ shocking grasp/ find familiar), and I’m not sure what after that.

One build I’m not particularly interested in is the tempest 2/ storm sorcerer 18 build. I don’t think it synergizes particularly well and the pure blasting aspect doesn’t appeal to me.

I know of the treantmonk stormlord build. Happy to discuss that one too if it comes up :)

I'd actually consider taking 3 or 4 levels in blood hunter. I'd lean to 3 levels so you have a chance to get 9th level casting.
Go Profane Soul, so you can pick up Booming Blade and Eldritch Blast. BB helps with your melee schtick. You'll do xd8 thunder and 1d6 lightning. The lightning causes them to be knocked back, and if they want to reengage they take more damage from Booming Blade.

[CMCC]

I'd actually consider taking 3 or 4 levels in blood hunter.
Go Profane Soul, so you can pick up Booming Blade and Eldritch Blast. BB helps with your melee schtick. You'll do xd8 thunder and 1d6 lightning. The lightning causes them to be knocked back, and if they want to reengage they take more damage from Booming Blade.

Instead of magic initiate?

[Mikal]

Instead of magic initiate?

Yup! If I'm already taking the level for crimson rite, why not one more and save myself a potential feat/ASI, while also getting a low level spell slot that regenerates as well as Armor of Agathys to protect myself in melee and Hex to hurt them even more?

Pre-Fight if possible: Armor of Agathys
Round 1- Crimson Rite and (optional) Spirit Guardians or Eldritch Blast as you close in
Round 2- (optional) Hex or Spiritual Weapon and Booming Blade attack in
Round 3- Wash, rinse repeat

[CMCC]

Yup! If I'm already taking the level for crimson rite, why not one more and save myself a potential feat/ASI, while also getting a low level spell slot that regenerates as well as Armor of Agathys to protect myself in melee and Hex to hurt them even more?

Pre-Fight if possible: Armor of Agathys
Round 1- Crimson Rite and (optional) Spirit Guardians or Eldritch Blast as you close in
Round 2- (optional) Hex and Booming Blade attack in
Round 3- Wash, rinse repeat

I’m liking the sounds of that Armor of Agathys, too. My INT is only going to be 14, so EB sans agonizing blast will probably be sidelined. And I do lose out on find familiar though, which hurts.

Interesting stuff.

[Mikal]

I’m liking the sounds of that Armor of Agathys, too. My INT is only going to be 14, so EB sans agonizing blast will probably be sidelined.

I do lose out on find familiar though, which hurts.

Eh, find familiar at higher levels is going to be a waste of time as you get sucked into AoEs more, if you're wanting it for advantage. Your biggest boom (heh) comes from whacking that single target for 2d6+str+1d8 thunder+xd8 thunder+1d6 lightning+1d6 necrotic (maybe), and forcing them to eat another xd8 thunder if they wanna retaliate, and even if they do retaliate you're hurting them even more. It's all about single target meltdown while keeping crowd control options open.

Or alternatively, spirit guardians is up, you whack them, they have to choose whether to move to go after you -or- escape the guardian aura, and take even more damage.

I would probably go Tempest to 6th first, then take blood hunter 2 to get the rite, then back to tempest until at least level 8. You can take that 3rd level of Blood Hunter whenever. So if you like Cleric and feel ya don't need it? You're flexible and don't have to. But if you're wanting to punish your enemies as much as possible, and make them hurt themselves if they manage to make contact? Then you take the level.

Only thing that makes me sad is a lack of lightning bolt anywhere, but going wizard wouldn't be good, especially with a 14 intelligence.

EDIT: I'd still consider taking Eldritch Blast. Even with a 14 intelligence it's probably still your best ranged option since otherwise you're throwing javelins at low range, or forcing saves with Toll the Dead. With EB even if it sucks you have an option to hit someone past 60 ft, and you may just get a headband of intellect. It's much better for your character than it would be for others most likely.

[TrueAlphaGamer]

Maybe not what you're looking for, but if you're interested in Blood Hunter I'd probably stick with it for at least 5 levels for both the extra attack and the increased 1d6 blood die. I always go Mutant Order for the +3 stat cheese. Of course, in that instance you become a Blood Hunter/Cleric for about half of your adventuring career rather than the other way around (and you'd be focusing less on Wis), but the 5 level BH dip is always a fun strat whenever I play with friends, especially if you add PAM :smallbiggrin:

What level are you starting at and what level do you expect to go to?

[CMCC]

Maybe not what you're looking for, but if you're interested in Blood Hunter I'd probably stick with it for at least 5 levels for both the extra attack and the increased 1d6 blood die. I always go Mutant Order for the +3 stat cheese. Of course, in that instance you become a Blood Hunter/Cleric for about half of your adventuring career rather than the other way around (and you'd be focusing less on Wis), but the 5 level BH dip is always a fun strat whenever I play with friends, especially if you add PAM :smallbiggrin:

What level are you starting at and what level do you expect to go to?

Starting at 6 and doing OotA, so I’m guessing ending around 15-18.

[Blood of Gaea]

It may be worth considering Spell Sniper over Magic Initiate. Booming Blade with a Whip can be pretty nifty. And with only a single attack per action, you're not downgrading all that much from a 1d8 one-handed weapon.

[CMCC]

It may be worth considering Spell Sniper over Magic Initiate. Booming Blade with a Whip can be pretty nifty. And with only a single attack per action, you're not downgrading all that much from a 1d8 one-handed weapon.

Why not a polearm?

But yeah I def am interested in spell sniper.

[Blood of Gaea]

Why not a polearm?

But yeah I def am interested in spell sniper.
A Polearm would work fine, but I personally would prefer a whip+shield over a halberd when I'm using blade cantrips. To me, +2 AC is easily worth -3 average damage.

[Mikal]

Only downside for stuff like Pam and spell sniper are that you’re going to be hungry for feats and asi anyway.

That’s why I advocated just a big damage weapon. Maximize that melee damage in a single hit.

[CMCC]

Only downside for stuff like Pam and spell sniper are that you’re going to be hungry for feats and asi anyway.

That’s why I advocated just a big damage weapon. Maximize that melee damage in a single hit.

That’s where I ended up too. But open to other ideas - especially if I drop magic initiate, that frees up one ASI.

[Mikal]

V human helps too

[CTurbo]

Melee Tempest? Here's I would do.

Vhuman 16 Str, 14 Con, 16 Wis

Start Fighter 1 for the Con saves, then go Tempest from there eventually taking Fighter 2 for Action Surge. I'd take Defense Fighting Style but a case could be made for taking Great Weapon Fighter if your DM will let you reroll all 1s and 2s from all those extra D8s from Booming Blade.

Your starting feat should probably be Magic Initiate but you go could ahead and grab Warcaster. Booming Blade isn't all that great until level 5 anyway.

After that, alternate between +2 Str and +2 Wis





If you roll for stats and won't be dependent on needing to bump Str and Wis, I highly recommend the Spell Sniper(Booming Blade)+PAM+Warcaster approach.

[Petrocorus]

What are exactly looking for in multiclassing? What to you want to get from it?

[Mikal]

My guess is reliable lightning damage

[Nhorianscum]

I’m looking to see people’s builds for the titular character here.

I’m probably going with a mix of a tempest 8/ blood hunter 2/ tempest x

I know there is another thread with tempest build advice but that has no multi-classing which greatly limits the possibilities.

I also will take war caster and magic initiate (booming blade/ shocking grasp/ find familiar), and I’m not sure what after that.

One build I’m not particularly interested in is the tempest 2/ storm sorcerer 18 build. I don’t think it synergizes particularly well and the pure blasting aspect doesn’t appeal to me.

I know of the treantmonk stormlord build. Happy to discuss that one too if it comes up :)

Yuanti pureblood tempest 20, warcaster, Res(Con), 20 wis.

I've never actually used my weapon with a cleric in mele past like... level 4? The dodge and various movement/melemancy based options are just so good and yeah, toll the dead is fine.

The only real value dips I'd consider are MA+sorc3, or just war wiz 2 and imo those are just shifts in value in comparison to the cleric capstone of "functionally 2x 9ths"

Sorc+MA just adds a ton of action economy and extend metamagic +cleric list is cheese, warwiz buffs saves and bulk.

Any mele smacking we do is just a marginal upgrade over just slamming toll. At 20th level.

[CMCC]

What are exactly looking for in multiclassing? What to you want to get from it?

I’m open to anything interesting/ powerful.

[CMCC]

My guess is reliable lightning damage

Yeah that’s why I went with BH - but that’s not necessary if there are better options. It’s still all theory crafting right now.

[Petrocorus]

I’m open to anything interesting/ powerful.
I'm meant, what capability you're looking for? What role do you wish to accomplish better by multiclassing?

Because honestly, Tempest Cleric is good enough not to need multiclassing. Even as far as i can tell, at high level.

I know it bugs people (me included) not to have a native attack that can combine with Thunderbolt Strike, but multiclassing is often too costful if this is the only problem you're trying to solve by this.

[CMCC]

I'm meant, what capability you're looking for? What role do you wish to accomplish better by multiclassing?

Because honestly, Tempest Cleric is good enough not to need multiclassing. Even as far as i can tell, at high level.

I know it bugs people (me included) not to have a native attack that can combine with Thunderbolt Strike, but multiclassing is often too costful if this is the only problem you're trying to solve by this.

I’m open to no multiclass. It’s a melee cleric that has to be versatile. Can tank, deal damage, buff, heal etc.

But again, if it’s a melee cleric and doesn’t do all of those things, that’s fine too. I’m mostly interested in seeing what’s out there rather than just theory crafting my specific build.

[CMCC]

The only real value dips I'd consider are MA+sorc3, or just war wiz 2 and imo those are just shifts in value in comparison to the cleric capstone of "functionally 2x 9ths"

Sorc+MA just adds a ton of action economy and extend metamagic +cleric list is cheese, warwiz buffs saves and bulk.


Explain this in more detail please. What specifically would I take here?

[Petrocorus]

I’m open to no multiclass. It’s a melee cleric that has to be versatile. Can tank, deal damage, buff, heal etc.

But again, if it’s a melee cleric and doesn’t do all of those things, that’s fine too. I’m mostly interested in seeing what’s out there rather than just theory crafting my specific build.

The thing is most melee cleric, and notably Tempest, are natively capable to do all this things, to various degree. With a emphasis on one or two thing depending on the Domain.
But the deal damage part is not accomplish through weapon attacks most of the time. Except maybe at the lowest level, or if your strength is really high for some reason.
Because your casting stat will be higher than your attack stat, your average damage with cantrip can be as high as those of your weapon attack (once chance to hit/damage accounted for), and with a better damage type.
And since cantrips get more dice faster than Divine Strike gives dice to your weapon attack, and since you'll max your casting stat but probably not the attack stat, the comparison will become more and more in favor of attack cantrips.
This is why Potent Spellcasting is better than Divine Strike, which is basically the price to pay for heavy armor prof.

At level 5, for instance, you'll go into melee with Spirit Guardians on, and depending on the foe, you'll spend your actions on dodge, or on Word of Radiance or rather Sacred Flame / Toll the Dead.

[CMCC]

The thing is most melee cleric, and notably Tempest, are natively capable to do all this things, to various degree. With a emphasis on one or two thing depending on the Domain.
But the deal damage part is not accomplish through weapon attacks most of the time. Except maybe at the lowest level, or if your strength is really high for some reason.
Because your casting stat will be higher than your attack stat, your average damage with cantrip can be as high as those of your weapon attack (once chance to hit/damage accounted for), and with a better damage type.
And since cantrips get more dice faster than Divine Strike gives dice to your weapon attack, and since you'll max your casting stat but probably not the attack stat, the comparison will become more and more in favor of attack cantrips.
This is why Potent Spellcasting is better than Divine Strike, which is basically the price to pay for heavy armor prof.

At level 5, for instance, you'll go into melee with Spirit Guardians on, and depending on the foe, you'll spend your actions on dodge, or on Word of Radiance or rather Sacred Flame / Toll the Dead.

Makes total sense, but are you still a melee cleric if you’re not slinging that heavy iron ;)

[Petrocorus]

Makes total sense, but are you still a melee cleric if you’re not slinging that heavy iron ;)
You're in melee, you're doing damage, you're tanking, you're occupying the attention (and attacks) of the foes or forcing them to move away from you (hence giving you and you pals OA).

So, i believe that yes, you're a melee cleric.

[BoxANT]

V human
S16 D10 C14 I8 W14 A12

feats
1. polearm master
4. spell sniper (booming blade)
8. war caster

[Chugger]

I tend to agree w/ Petrocorus, that a cleric with potent spellcasting is going to out-damage a melee cleric, but you can make a melee tempest cleric work.

If a fighter, pal or barb in the party has picked up gauntlets of ogre power, then finds a girdle of hill giant str - they can give you the gauntlets, and you're suddenly doing much better in melee (if you're str based). If you play adventurer's league, it's not too hard to get gauntlets of ogre power - you can trade for them. And heck you can get a girdle of giant str, too.

Let's say you have +5 from hill giant girdle. At lvl 11 that's 1d8 melee weapon + 1d8 divine strike +5 plus you have a magic +2 weapon - average damage is 16.5. That's not bad for a cleric, but look at all the trouble you went to to get that. If you add booming blade to that, it's another 9 average damage at 11 - for 25.5 damage.

At lvl 11 Toll the Dead does 3d12 + 5 = 19.5 + 5 = 24.5 average damage. It's a 17 wis save. And I have a magic item attunement slot open for something else.

Well, I'm sure there are ways to do more melee damage, but is it worth it? Sure, if you want to be meleeing cleric, it very much is. If you want to max damage, maybe not - but there are many other factors. A potent spellcasting cleric is almost always going to be a medium armor wearer - that's one.

A tempest cleric's friend is --> wand of lightning bolts, for obvious reasons. In AL these are pretty rare but you can trade for them. In other campaigns a DM might let you quest for one or even buy one.

[CMCC]

V human
S16 D10 C14 I8 W14 A12

feats
1. polearm master
4. spell sniper (booming blade)
8. war caster

Using PA just for the OA clause? Seems the first feature is redundant with spiritual weapon.

[CMCC]

I tend to agree w/ Petrocorus, that a cleric with potent spellcasting is going to out-damage a melee cleric, but you can make a melee tempest cleric work.

If a fighter, pal or barb in the party has picked up gauntlets of ogre power, then finds a girdle of hill giant str - they can give you the gauntlets, and you're suddenly doing much better in melee (if you're str based). If you play adventurer's league, it's not too hard to get gauntlets of ogre power - you can trade for them. And heck you can get a girdle of giant str, too.

Let's say you have +5 from hill giant girdle. At lvl 11 that's 1d8 melee weapon + 1d8 divine strike +5 plus you have a magic +2 weapon - average damage is 16.5. That's not bad for a cleric, but look at all the trouble you went to to get that. If you add booming blade to that, it's another 9 average damage at 11 - for 25.5 damage.

At lvl 11 Toll the Dead does 3d12 + 5 = 19.5 + 5 = 24.5 average damage. It's a 17 wis save. And I have a magic item attunement slot open for something else.

Well, I'm sure there are ways to do more melee damage, but is it worth it? Sure, if you want to be meleeing cleric, it very much is. If you want to max damage, maybe not - but there are many other factors. A potent spellcasting cleric is almost always going to be a medium armor wearer - that's one.

A tempest cleric's friend is --> wand of lightning bolts, for obvious reasons. In AL these are pretty rare but you can trade for them. In other campaigns a DM might let you quest for one or even buy one.

I tried googling this: you can apply Destructive Wrath to a wand of lightning bolts?

My reading says yes, but wanted to confirm.

[Mikal]

I tried googling this: you can apply Destructive Wrath to a wand of lightning bolts?

My reading says yes, but wanted to confirm.

You can. The wording is
"When you roll lightning or thunder damage, you can use your Channel Divinity to deal maximum damage, instead of rolling."

Which means any thunder or lightning damage rolls you make qualify. That also means javelins of lightning, staff of thunder and lightning, etc.

That being said you can use that with any multiclass or no, it only requires attunement by a spell caster.

[Petrocorus]

I tried googling this: you can apply Destructive Wrath to a wand of lightning bolts?

My reading says yes, but wanted to confirm.
As Mikal said, you normally can anytime you roll for lightning or thunder damage.
But as always, this is actually up to the DM.



If a fighter, pal or barb in the party has picked up gauntlets of ogre power, then finds a girdle of hill giant str - they can give you the gauntlets, and you're suddenly doing much better in melee (if you're str based).
I run LMoP twice with two different groups, the two times the Gauntlet ended up on the hands of the cleric because the martial already had 18 Str or were Dex based.

[CMCC]

Two melee tempest builds I’ve come across:

This from Nerd Immersion:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/27962898/MHwavR

And this from treantmonk:
https://youtu.be/0jA4gy1rprE

[Nhorianscum]

Explain this in more detail please. What specifically would I take here?

Generic not be disabled/die, action economy, and mobility?

There's actually a lot to unpack charOP wise in terms of the nitty gritty of these dips and why they're worth trading progression and your "2nd 9th" for so I'm being a bit flip for brevity.

Short list of benefits:

Both: +5 ac, resistance to elements, some movement stuff.

Sorc: "free" buff uses, 180+DPR on burst rounds, doubled movement, at will dodge, etc.

WarWiz: +4 to all saves.

I'm not really focusing on the sorcerers origin or the wizards... whatever because this is a tier 3 dip and we just don't care about small potatoes.

A lot of the minutiae is just irrelevant.

[BoxANT]

Using PA just for the OA clause? Seems the first feature is redundant with spiritual weapon.

PAM bonus attack does not take up a spell slot, and gives the OA, excellent in tier 1.

once you hit tier 2, BB+SW become stronger, but you still are getting the OA

after getting WC, you can be applying 2 BB a turn (one on your turn, then another when they trigger OA), combined with SW & SG (&DS) damage is extremely high.

[Nhorianscum]

PAM bonus attack does not take up a spell slot, and gives the OA, excellent in tier 1.

once you hit tier 2, BB+SW become stronger, but you still are getting the OA

after getting WC, you can be applying 2 BB a turn (one on your turn, then another when they trigger OA), combined with SW & SG (&DS) damage is extremely high.

So a note on PAM+BB. It's a build that had always confused me.

Single tick no move BB at 8 = 15.5

Plain ole toll the dead = 11.

Wow. 4.5 DPR was gained from a feat and a multi. After accuracy is taken into consideration this is roughly 1 single solitary point of DPR gained.

Can we multitick BB +OA? Yes, we can also use the shove action by a cliff, both are out of our control. If the enemy is relevant... we probably want to hold that reaction for shield, or actually cast big boy spells, or just dodge. If the enemy is not relevant then our damage is... pointless.

This isn't to say BB is bad. Just that we are considering a spellcaster who's purpose is to cast spells, at level 9+ where they are just swimming in spells/day. Is spending a feat here to poke slightly better with a stick really relevant?

(If you're just doing it for fun no argument.)

[CMCC]

What is ‘multitick’?

[Nhorianscum]

What is ‘multitick’?

A shorter way of saying "an instance where booming blade both hits an enemy and/or activates its rider damage multiple times"

[Chugger]

Hey, I'll be responding to several posts - first, as others said, yes you can use the Tempest C's channel divinity to max a lightning bolt from a wand - and it's deadly (it's allowed in Adventurer's League - but maybe check with your DM before committing to such a build). If a diviner wiz is in the party, he can determine that one target of it failed his ST (if he rolled at least one low portent that morning) - but Legendary ST probably trumps even that, so keep that in mind.
Another thing to keep in mind is that Tempest 2/Sorc x is a common build (with the sorc going dragon or storm or in some way angling toward nuking, though any sorc origin can support nuking, as the meta magic you pick also determines how hard you hit - plus elemental adapt feat can help) -- or Tempest 2/Wiz x (Evo). Once per short rest you can max damage on lightning bolt and really hurt enemies.

The links that CMCC put look good - Treantmonk is very smart and very helpful, and a good teacher.

It just occurred to me that with the new book, Tasha's, you can make a High Elf Tempest cleric who, instead of getting +2 to dex gets +2 to wisdom, and +1 to Con or Str instead of Int. It would be easy to have 16 Wis and either 16 Str and 14 Con or 14 Str and 16 Con -- and get Booming Blade from High Elf (they get one cantrip). And you'd only have one dump stat at 8. If you don't mind 8 in Int, Dex and Cha, you can do 17 wis, 16 str and 15 con, and at lvl 4 do wis to 18 and con to 16 - I don't like having that many 8s.
Personally, I think I'd go Variant Human and Magic Init at lvl 1 for a feat, taking BB and maybe GFB - and Find Familiar for the lvl 1 spell.

Okay, let's talk about the suggestions that you take PAM feat - generally that's a no. The bonus action attack is normally very nice, but as a cleric you are using your b.a. for other things all the time. Once you're over lvl 7 or so, you'll be upcasting your basic combat routine for any "serious" fight - which is the same for almost any cleric - round 1 cast or upcast spirit guardians - round 2 b.a. cast or upcast Spiritual Weapon and use action to melee attack, cast Toll Dead, or Dodge.

If you have 16 str your PAM attack does 1d4 +3 or an average of 7.5 damage. Spiritual Weapon at lvl 2 does 1d8 + 4 or 5, depending on how advanced your Wis is, and that's 8.5 or 9.5 av damage. Sure, PaM would keep you from having to use a slot to get a b.a. attack from Spir Weapon, but you can upcast Spir Weapon - and PaM damage is capped. Ah, but we can add BB damage...except we can't - BB can't be cast on a bonus action - AND - since we actually did a spell action or spell attack action for our action, we didn't make a melee attack and we don't qualify for PaM's b.a. attack. Also BB has a 5' range and requires a _second_ feat to use at 10' reach range, spell sniper! So no, unless I'm completely wrong about this or badly missing something here, I'd not go for PAM as a tempest cleric. Your b.a. is pretty much occupied by spiritual weapon and the occasional healing word you may need to cast.

[CMCC]

Great stuff.

One thing I’m considering doing is taking BOTH magic initiate and spell sniper (Druid) - something about thorn whip and spirit guardians really appeals to me. And a 10 ft BB seems pretty strong.

Another thing that doesn’t get talked about (because of booming blade) is sentinel. Yeah on an OA you lose out on the BB rider, but locking someone down in your SG range before they can get out is bigger game basically always.

I can also envision ways to make both booming blade and sentinel work with a reach weapon, but I haven’t thought it through completely.

Lots of interesting options here.

[Blood of Gaea]

Great stuff.

One thing I’m considering doing is taking BOTH magic initiate and spell sniper (Druid) - something about thorn whip and spirit guardians really appeals to me. And a 10 ft BB seems pretty strong.

Another thing that doesn’t get talked about (because of booming blade) is sentinel. Yeah on an OA you lose out on the BB rider, but locking someone down in your SG range before they can get out is bigger game basically always.

I can also envision ways to make both booming blade and sentinel work with a reach weapon, but I haven’t thought it through completely.

Lots of interesting options here.
The problem you run into with taking both and the reason for Sentinel being underplayed is the same: Limited ASI slots. You need to both bump your Wis and get your needed feats.

Warcaster might not be as good as Sentinal at AoOs, but it does nonetheless improves them while also giving 1-2 other important features to your PC.

In the same way, there's some overlap with Thorn Whip and a Whip with Booming Blade. Both are ways to use magic to effect enemies at a slight distance and effect their movement.

+2 Wis, +2 Wis, Magic Initiate or Spell Sniper, Warcaster is going to be noticably better than something like Magic Initiate, Spell Sniper, Warcaster, Sentinal.

[CTurbo]

No need to over think a melee Cleric too much. Clerics with high AC and good means of concentration can deal an incredible amount of damage in melee without ever swinging a weapon.

[Nhorianscum]

Great stuff.

One thing I’m considering doing is taking BOTH magic initiate and spell sniper (Druid) - something about thorn whip and spirit guardians really appeals to me. And a 10 ft BB seems pretty strong.

Another thing that doesn’t get talked about (because of booming blade) is sentinel. Yeah on an OA you lose out on the BB rider, but locking someone down in your SG range before they can get out is bigger game basically always.

I can also envision ways to make both booming blade and sentinel work with a reach weapon, but I haven’t thought it through completely.

Lots of interesting options here.

There are a ton of enemies with 10+ft reach and all enemies can take the disengage action so while SS/sentinel+PAM+BB gets mentioned a lot it's less reliable than ye olde poison damage.

SG locks things down by default with good positioning doubling down on this is more the parties job than it is our clerics.

[Chugger]

I pretty much agree with the voices saying to go easy or take a more simple route.

When a build takes til lvl 12 or lvl 16 to really shine, what good is it? You suffer all those levels to create it, and then you're possibly burned out on the character - and how many campaigns last that long?

If you're starting at lvl 1 or lvl 3, you want a build that comes on line early and scales up well.

You're right that combining PAM and Spell Sniper and Sentinel is great, when theory-crafting - but you need (or most players say you need) a 20 in your prime attribute, too (or higher w/ a magic book) - so again when your build only begins to shine after 4 months of playing...what have you done?

You have two ways to start w/ BB and not MC: High Elf or variant human. Or just 1 dip something to get it (just know that if you're playing to 20 and if you plan on numerous adventures at 20, a lvl 20 cleric has a 100% guaranteed divine intervention once a week (wipe or TPK insurance, basically) - but a lvl 19 cleric lvl 1 something-else does not).

The basic cleric battle order is SG, SW and cantrip or melee, rinse and repeat. Sometimes b.a. cast healing word, or if using an already summoned SW to attack, cure wounds on action.

But keep working on it - maybe there is a good way to pull off some of this sneaky stuff, like lightning lure, and do amazing things - and at a lower level. Pls let us know if you figure it out. That would be great to know.

[Gignere]

You have two ways to start w/ BB and not MC: High Elf or variant human. Or just 1 dip something to get it (just know that if you're playing to 20 and if you plan on numerous adventures at 20, a lvl 20 cleric has a 100% guaranteed divine intervention once a week (wipe or TPK insurance, basically) - but a lvl 19 cleric lvl 1 something-else does not).
.

Another way is to start as variant half elf.

[Petrocorus]

All this theory crafting always bumps into the same problem.
You'll have 5 ASI over the course of your career, and you'll probably using two of them to max out your Wis.
And you'll want Warcaster or Res (Con) or both.
So you'll be left with only one free ASI, or maybe two, to spend on something else, and you may want to raise your Con or your Dex/Str.
And that's assuming you go up to level 20.

And all of this very cool combos (PAM +Sentinel, whip/halberd +BB) requires 2 or 3 feats to really work.
Even if you start as Vuman or if the DM gives a bonus feat to everyone, you'll probably not be able to make this work until later level or you'll have to sacrifice things that are more useful.

I had the issue myself. I enter a game where the DM did give a bonus feat to everyone (as i started to do myself), but also allowed Vuman.
It was for ToA.
So i decided to go for an arcane frontliner cleric with 2 starting feat at level 3.
I took MI for Shillelagh and Goodberries, but because the DM was keen on fatigue and poison, i had a big incentive to take Res (Con) instead of Warcaster.
Which mean that even with 2 starting feats and 2 ASI before reaching the big bad at maybe level 12, i knew i had to choose between delaying the maxing of Wisdom or not having the Warcaster + BB combo until level 12.
I choose to max out Wis because it improved my efficiency in all the other things i was doing, notably support and healing, and i also calculated that with Shillelagh + GFB + SW + SG (+ later Potent Spellcasting), i already had the potential to do a lot of damage, especially against a pack of lower level enemies. I lacked single target damage, but i had a SS Ranger and a GWM Fighter in the party.

You won't like it, but you will have to prioritize.

[BoxANT]

So a note on PAM+BB. It's a build that had always confused me.

Single tick no move BB at 8 = 15.5

Plain ole toll the dead = 11.

Wow. 4.5 DPR was gained from a feat and a multi. After accuracy is taken into consideration this is roughly 1 single solitary point of DPR gained.

Can we multitick BB +OA? Yes, we can also use the shove action by a cliff, both are out of our control. If the enemy is relevant... we probably want to hold that reaction for shield, or actually cast big boy spells, or just dodge. If the enemy is not relevant then our damage is... pointless.

This isn't to say BB is bad. Just that we are considering a spellcaster who's purpose is to cast spells, at level 9+ where they are just swimming in spells/day. Is spending a feat here to poke slightly better with a stick really relevant?

(If you're just doing it for fun no argument.)

the whole point of the build is to apply BB at 10ft via SS thus increasing likelihood of bonus BB dmg.

in addition, you also get DS bump at 8

assuming 16 Str @ 8 lvl

8.5+4.5+4.5 initial add 9 for bonus = 26.5

since applied at 10 ft, move back, the mook then moves into PAM OA range allowing for another BB 22.5

possible damage 49 (in addition to SW & SG)

slightly higher than 13 TtD

[CMCC]

the whole point of the build is to apply BB at 10ft via SS thus increasing likelihood of bonus BB dmg.

in addition, you also get DS bump at 8

assuming 16 Str @ 8 lvl

8.5+4.5+4.5 initial add 9 for bonus = 26.5

since applied at 10 ft, move back, the mook then moves into PAM OA range allowing for another BB 22.5

possible damage 49 (in addition to SW & SG)

slightly higher than 13 TtD

Yeah this is pretty awesome if you have the ASI to make it work. I prob will.

[Blood of Gaea]

And all of this very cool combos (PAM +Sentinel, whip/halberd +BB) requires 2 or 3 feats to really work.

BB + Reach only requires Spell Sniper. It's also nice to have it with Warcaster, but as you already state, that's a pretty solid choice even without this combo.

So Variant Human manages it handidly by just taking Warcaster at 1st level, then Spellsniper at 4th level.

It's fine to put off Booming Blade until that point, as the first bump in upfront and rider damage is when it becomes noticable. Honestly, you could probably even leave it off until 8th level.

This does mean that you'll be 2 Wis behind another VHuman who took Warcaster and just increased Wis, but you'll be on par with other races who took Warcaster at 4th level.

[CMCC]

The UA artificer (armorer) can also get lightning damage consistently at 3.

How does that compare?

You only lose one level of spell progression but int is your spell casting stat (same as blood hunter btw).

[Nhorianscum]

the whole point of the build is to apply BB at 10ft via SS thus increasing likelihood of bonus BB dmg.

in addition, you also get DS bump at 8

assuming 16 Str @ 8 lvl

8.5+4.5+4.5 initial add 9 for bonus = 26.5

since applied at 10 ft, move back, the mook then moves into PAM OA range allowing for another BB 22.5

possible damage 49 (in addition to SW & SG)

slightly higher than 13 TtD

The only guarentee here is 2d8+1d6+3 or 15.5 damage when using a 1 handed polearm.

A common happenstance in tier 2 is "BB on OA... oh hell in a handbasket it has 10 ft reach"

Not saying BB isn't good. Just saying that the wombo combos folks love to bring up with big numbers attached are rarely if ever relevant.

[CMCC]

The only guarentee here is 2d8+1d6+3 or 15.5 damage when using a 1 handed polearm.

A common happenstance in tier 2 is "BB on OA... oh hell in a handbasket it has 10 ft reach"

Not saying BB isn't good. Just saying that the wombo combos folks love to bring up with big numbers attached are rarely if ever relevant.

Wombo combo?

[KorvinStarmast]

I’m open to no multiclass. It’s a melee cleric that has to be versatile. Can tank, deal damage, buff, heal etc.

But again, if it’s a melee cleric and doesn’t do all of those things, that’s fine too. I’m mostly interested in seeing what’s out there rather than just theory crafting my specific build. Since you want to mix it up, you may want to mitigate damage taken.
Tempest Cleric vHuman Feat = Heavy Armor Master.

+1 STR and damage reduction for B/P/S non magical. We discovered that DR is surprisingly useful well into the game. All of thise little -3's to damage done add up over a long adventure day, though it depends somewhat on what you encounter. not much good against flame skulls
Background: Sailor(Athl/Perception)
Cleric Skills: Insight, Survival (OoTA makes that handy)
Extra Skill: pick one, Arcana might be useful ...

With Point Buy:
Str 15 Dex 10 Con 13(+1) Int 10 Wis 15(+1) Cha 8
S 16 D 10 C 14 I 10 W 16 Ch 8

First ASI(4): +2 Wis or Warcaster.
Second ASI(8): whichever you didn't pick first of the two above.
Third ASI: +2 Wisdom.

Take a look at the combination of Hold Person and Inflict wounds. Granted, it is limited to being against a humanoids, but advantage on the attack and an auto crit on a hit ... 6d10. A nice little nova. Your allies also benefit from the autocrit and advantage for their attacks.

Against any enemy: blindness/deafness. The Blindness helps your allies and you take down a big monster. Granted, it being a constitution check does make saves more common ...

Fog Cloud: its uses are many, in terms of shaping a battlefield. If you upcast it, it gets bigger. :)

Just an experiential note:

The dwarf cleric in one of our campaigns had H.A.M.; at level 14, he was still benefitting from those little -3s; it surprised me to watch it play out. He'd also taken the Healer feat; it's a nice one but it does not seem to fit your theme.

If you are able to get booming blade by all means get it. Very nice thematic cantrip for that domain and can do some good damage.

[Nhorianscum]

Wombo combo?

Smash brothers thing referring to a specific repetitive combo that can be looped over and over but only with specific spacing, timing, and damage%.

[BoxANT]

The only guarentee here is 2d8+1d6+3 or 15.5 damage when using a 1 handed polearm.

A common happenstance in tier 2 is "BB on OA... oh hell in a handbasket it has 10 ft reach"

Not saying BB isn't good. Just saying that the wombo combos folks love to bring up with big numbers attached are rarely if ever relevant.

the build uses a 10 ft reach polearm to apply BB, and if a mook has a 10 ft. reach it will still trigger the OA&BB when it gets within 10 ft due to SS/POM/WC interaction.

has a pretty good success rate of getting BB rider & BB OA, and when combined w SG allows for a great deal of area control.

[CMCC]

Idk if I should start a new thread, but looking over cleric spells past 4th and 5th - I’m not very impressed. Actually I’m downright disappointed.

There’s almost nothing that speaks to me like the wizard list.

What are some of the good ones with some of the more interesting uses?

[KorvinStarmast]

Idk if I should start a new thread, but looking over cleric spells past 4th and 5th - I’m not very impressed. Actually I’m downright disappointed.

There’s almost nothing that speaks to me like the wizard list.

What are some of the good ones with some of the more interesting uses?
Banishment.
Raise Dead
Greater Restoration

Both are for me 'Must" picks.

If you get ambushed during long rests a lot Guardian of Faith.

Contagion has great potential, but it's a bit situational.

[CMCC]

Banishment.
Raise Dead

Both are for me 'Must" picks.

If you get ambushed during long rests a lot Guardian of Faith.

Those are all 5th and lower. Past 5 I’m like “meh”.

Compared to a wizard who at 6+ gets so many amazing spells.

Am I missing some must have spells (like contingency/simulacrum/wish), or is it smart to bounce out of cleric around lvl 9 or 10?

Is cleric 9/wiz 11 still a thing?

[KorvinStarmast]

Those are all 5th and lower. Past 5 I’m like “meh”.

Compared to a wizard who at 6+ gets so many amazing spells.

Am I missing some must have spells (like contingency/simulacrum/wish), or is it smart to bounce out of cleric around lvl 9 or 10?

Is cleric 9/wiz 11 still a thing?
Sorry, I misunderstood your question.
Not sure if you want to consider doing Cleric/Storm Sorcerer?
I understand the synergy is pretty good.

What we found with our high level Tempest Cleric:
Etherealness, Regenerate: incredibly useful when needed (The former is a fantastic scouting spell)
(Our DM had added the lingering wounds on a crit thing, which included lost limbs. This spell was used more than once)

Never had to use resurrection.
True Seeing can be handy as heck.
Heal got used A Lot.

8th level.
Earthquake. Can wreck an encounter. (But flying enemies don't care)
Antimagic Field: against some enemies, shut down certain problems.
We usually found that scouting ahead and getting intel on the enemy was when the cleric would prepare this one
Careful on placement, though. You can annoy a fellow spell caster.

Gate and Astral projeciton we never go to.

[Blood of Gaea]

Idk if I should start a new thread, but looking over cleric spells past 4th and 5th - I’m not very impressed. Actually I’m downright disappointed.

There’s almost nothing that speaks to me like the wizard list.

What are some of the good ones with some of the more interesting uses?
There is definitely a noticeable falloff, I think most people would agree.

Heal is a rather useful spell, one of the truly great healing options, 70 HP and clearing a few effects is nothing to scoff at.

Create Undead is interesting in that it can be pretty cool once you cast it at 8th level, having a couple of Wights who can control a bunch of zombies is pretty nifty.

True Seeing isn't the most riveting choice in the world, but when you look at the other options your fellow casters have, it's probably best for the Cleric to prepare it. It's of course campaign dependant, but I've had times where this was a life saver. It's doubly interesting if you have a buddy who loves using Illusions.

Conjure Celestial is probably your most interesting 7th level option. A Couatle has a decent pool of healing spells, and also makes a servicable summon in combat.

Regenerate is specifically interesting with Arcana Cleric, as they can dispel a 7th level spell on themselves each turn.

Symbol is hard to make use of, with it's high gold cost and 1 minute cast time. But if you do have the chance to ambush the BBEG, some of the effects are pretty brutal, like Stunning or Pain. One time a group of my players cast this outside a building then lured a group of enemies out into it.

Earthquake is one of those spells I love because it'd a lot of fun. Dropping building on your enemies is great, but don't expect it to outright kill them. Get more useful if your party has access to a form of mass flight.

Holy Aura isn't really interesting, but it is quite strong.

Mass Heal is probably the best 9th level spell to keep prepared, but I like keeping Astral Projection in mind. It doesn't come up a lot, but it's a safe way to travel around the Astral Plane

[CMCC]

So do most people multiclass out or just say F it and do what they can with those spells?

[Petrocorus]

So do most people multiclass out or just say F it and do what they can with those spells?
Or use the spell slots to upcast lower level spells.

That also depends on the specific domain. I don't think an Arcana Cleric would have any incentive to dip more than a couple of level in other classes and can make good use of upcast healing spells. A Tempest Cleric probably wants more Channel Divinity and may want his fly speed.

[CTurbo]

Clerics have some amazing low level spells and many of them upcast well.

For a melee Cleric, I could see appeal in multiclassing into Ranger late to beef up melee potential.

Mostly solo class Cleric is fine, but I knew a guy that got to Cleric 9 and then switched over to Moon Druid for good afterwards. That would boost melee power significantly.

[Nhorianscum]

Idk if I should start a new thread, but looking over cleric spells past 4th and 5th - I’m not very impressed. Actually I’m downright disappointed.

There’s almost nothing that speaks to me like the wizard list.

What are some of the good ones with some of the more interesting uses?

So guardian of faith is actually a very good damage spell. Banishment is strong, contigation is strong, hero's feast is obscenely powerful, etc.

The 4+ cleric list is just full of "silver bullet" spells that are extremely powerful in specific situations.

This is better than it sounds as our main damage and control comes from our first through 3rd level spells which upcast very well and clerics can prepare an absolute wall of spells every day. (22 at 9th level) So we have our "core rotation" of 4 or 5 spells and 15-16 silver bullets that we can prepare based on gathered knowledge.

It's very much a quanity over quality list but it's never bad by any metric.

Going for a multi can make for a stronger cleric in some level ranges but very few multi's are stronger at all levels.

[CMCC]

Clerics have some amazing low level spells and many of them upcast well.

For a melee Cleric, I could see appeal in multiclassing into Ranger late to beef up melee potential.

Mostly solo class Cleric is fine, but I knew a guy that got to Cleric 9 and then switched over to Moon Druid for good afterwards. That would boost melee power significantly.

Yeah I’m doing OotA so I can imagine 3 lvls for gloomstalker is big game. Prob not worth 5 lvls though.

[CMCC]

I’m thinking a 1 level hexblade dip is just too good to pass up for a melee build. AoA, shield, and access to both SCAG cantrips.

Edit: also round 1 BA of curse along with Spirit Guardians synergizes well since you can’t cast SW on that turn.

[Nhorianscum]

I’m thinking a 1 level hexblade dip is just too good to pass up for a melee build. AoA, shield, and access to both SCAG cantrips.

The big draw of hexblade IMO has always been a mix of hexcurse alongside fullish armor and weapon proficiencies.

Cleric... isn't really using either of those effectively.

Ditto for AoA. It's just less good on the class that already vomits better HP buffs and has something like 20- 25 effective AC in combat before shield.

Edit: Oh goody we know level range now.

OOTA ends at 15th level if memory serves. Cleric 9->sorc 3->cleric 3 would be my preference here because I love my metamagic. Being able to double tap maximized call lightning in one round from an 8th level slot is just delightful, it's a nice flat 160 damage and with extended spell Aid, death ward, and the other no concentration buffs become obscenities.

That said... Cleric 15 may be better overall (if less fun for me personally) because antimagic field, holy word, and earthquake are low key extremely strong at the end of this campain.

[CMCC]

The big draw of hexblade IMO has always been a mix of hexcurse alongside fullish armor and weapon proficiencies.

Cleric... isn't really using either of those effectively.

Ditto for AoA. It's just less good on the class that already vomits better HP buffs and has something like 20- 25 effective AC in combat before shield.

Edit: Oh goody we know level range now.

OOTA ends at 15th level if memory serves. Cleric 9->sorc 3->cleric 3 would be my preference here because I love my metamagic. Being able to double tap maximized call lightning in one round from an 8th level slot is just delightful, it's a nice flat 160 damage and with extended spell Aid, death ward, and the other no concentration buffs become obscenities.

That said... Cleric 15 may be better overall (if less fun for me personally) because antimagic field, holy word, and earthquake are low key extremely strong at the end of this campain.

Hexblade curse works really well because of the action economy and the bonus based on prof instead of level - and it applies to all damage rolls.

In my campaign, we’re starting at lvl 6, so 15 is prob low end of where we’ll finish. I think 17 is a safe bet.

[Nhorianscum]

Hexblade curse works really well because of the action economy and the bonus based on prof instead of level - and it applies to all damage rolls.

In my campaign, we’re starting at lvl 6, so 15 is prob low end of where we’ll finish. I think 17 is a safe bet.

Ohlawds. That is an awkward starting level.

Finishing at 17 we come back to 9ths being very good.

I just deeply struggle with abandoning the tempest capstone and a 9th for... +9-18 DPR. (Damage may be delightful but it takes something like +90 DPR to tempt me away from true 9ths and even then...9ths)

Guess my final note here is this, fullcasting is strong and abandoning fullcasting progression to poke slightly better with a sharp stick is inarguably less strong.

[CMCC]

Yeah and I’m completely guessing on that final level. It could easily be 18 or 19... or 15.

I will say that having 40-50 sessions of those hexblade bonuses seems better than a couple of solid 8 or 9th level spells. Also don’t forget that curse plays with SW and SG damage.

If this was a wizard I’d be more inclined towards the 9th level spells, but maybe I’m wrong.

[Gtdead]

Let me start by saying that I think Tempest Cleric is more suited to casting than using a weapon. Also every tip I give here applies to all clerics, because the only thing Tempest has going for himself in melee is Wrath of the Storm, and I really dislike optimizing these types of abilities. I'd rather not get hit. At most, you are better at using aid than other clerics and you may get some mileage out of healing word by trading a first level slot for 2d8 damage and an enemy action. I am a huge fan of dodge action as a cleric. His action isn't that valuable when it comes to damage dealing, but dodge+SW+SG can be used to great effect.

I've always believed that for any build that uses scag cantrips, sorcerer 3 is the natural progression. However, quicken is not great for clerics. Their bonus action is very busy and juggling all these bonus action spells with quicken and refilling the sorcery point pool is pretty much impossible. Twin is where the money's at, but to get he most out of it you have to get mobile which is an additional feat tax to an already feat hungry class. You charge in, hit two melee enemies with BB, and get out without triggering AoO. And then you are free to use SW and you are in the right position for SG. If they want to hit you, they take damage from the rider, else they stand there like idiots doing nothing. However I would propose you ask your DM first if it would be ok for Thunderous Strike to apply to thunder damage. I think it's a stupid that it only applies to lightning damage. If he allows it, you can forgo mobile.

The other way to do it, which is even more feat heavy and sacrifices the shield, is to go Warcaster+PAM+Spellsniper but it's nice to be able to use a BB as a reaction and the extra range works well with twin. However the DM may contest the usage of warcaster with PAM. Ask first before attempting.

For a damage build, the best level to grab the sorcerer levels is after you get your lvl 5 spells. There is an argument to be made about starting as sorcerer for the CON proficiency and grab the other 2 levels later. I'm not sure how I feel about it though. Being in melee makes it all the more important, but I really hate lagging in the spell level progression.

The good thing about tempest multiclassing sorcerer is that he is in a unique position to doubledip on call lightning by quicken+action, both maximized. So yea, in some way, you can create a fairly well rounded build. But you will invest in so many feats that you won't be able to maximize your spell casting potential that way. My suggestion is to max WIS and hope for Gauntlets of Strength but I doubt that you will want to do this since you are dead set on melee.

[Nhorianscum]

Yeah and I’m completely guessing on that final level. It could easily be 18 or 19... or 15.

I will say that having 40-50 sessions of those hexblade bonuses seems better than a couple of solid 8 or 9th level spells. Also don’t forget that curse plays with SW and SG damage.

If this was a wizard I’d be more inclined towards the 9th level spells, but maybe I’m wrong.

It's less 40-50 sessions of hexcurse vs "big endgame" and more 40-50 sessions of being behind fullcaster progression vs hexcurse.

[CMCC]

Let me start by saying that I think Tempest Cleric is more suited to casting than using a weapon. Also every tip I give here applies to all clerics, because the only thing Tempest has going for himself in melee is Wrath of the Storm, and I really dislike optimizing these types of abilities. I'd rather not get hit. At most, you are better at using aid than other clerics and you may get some mileage out of healing word by trading a first level slot for 2d8 damage and an enemy action. I am a huge fan of dodge action as a cleric. His action isn't that valuable when it comes to damage dealing, but dodge+SW+SG can be used to great effect.

I've always believed that for any build that uses scag cantrips, sorcerer 3 is the natural progression. However, quicken is not great for clerics. Their bonus action is very busy and juggling all these bonus action spells with quicken and refilling the sorcery point pool is pretty much impossible. Twin is where the money's at, but to get he most out of it you have to get mobile which is an additional feat tax to an already feat hungry class. You charge in, hit two melee enemies with BB, and get out without triggering AoO. And then you are free to use SW and you are in the right position for SG. If they want to hit you, they take damage from the rider, else they stand there like idiots doing nothing. However I would propose you ask your DM first if it would be ok for Thunderous Strike to apply to thunder damage. I think it's a stupid that it only applies to lightning damage. If he allows it, you can forgo mobile.

The other way to do it, which is even more feat heavy and sacrifices the shield, is to go Warcaster+PAM+Spellsniper but it's nice to be able to use a BB as a reaction and the extra range works well with twin. However the DM may contest the usage of warcaster with PAM. Ask first before attempting.

For a damage build, the best level to grab the sorcerer levels is after you get your lvl 5 spells. There is an argument to be made about starting as sorcerer for the CON proficiency and grab the other 2 levels later. I'm not sure how I feel about it though. Being in melee makes it all the more important, but I really hate lagging in the spell level progression.

The good thing about tempest multiclassing sorcerer is that he is in a unique position to doubledip on call lightning by quicken+action, both maximized. So yea, in some way, you can create a fairly well rounded build. But you will invest in so many feats that you won't be able to maximize your spell casting potential that way. My suggestion is to max WIS and hope for Gauntlets of Strength but I doubt that you will want to do this since you are dead set on melee.

What’s the level breakdown you’re proposing here? I’m not entirely clear.


It's less 40-50 sessions of hexcurse vs "big endgame" and more 40-50 sessions of being behind fullcaster progression vs hexcurse.

That’s a fair point. Especially since it’s not just spell progression but also slot progression.

[Gtdead]

What’s the level breakdown you’re proposing here? I’m not entirely clear.

After thinking about it I realized that you need to go Sorcerer 4 for the PAM build to work, otherwise you will get the next ASI too late. Assuming Vhuman:

For the Mobile build: Cleric 5 -> Sorc 3, WC -> Mobile. It will play like a usual cleric till lvl 5 and then start adding sorc cantrips and at lvl 9 the build will be complete. You can then either go for Sorc 4 and get an extra ASI or continue Cleric for spell progression.

For the PAM build: Sorc 1 -> Cleric 5 -> Sorc 4. PAM -> WC -> Spellsniper. He will start with PAM so delaying SW for a lvl isn't that terrible. At lvl 5 when BB will start getting better he will focus a bit more on maximized shatters and use spells like Bless and Shield, and once he hits 9, he will have both WC and spellsniper to take advantage of Twin and AoOs.

I'd use the rest of the ASI's for WIS and hope for a STR item.

[CMCC]

Sounds like the DM has us pegged for the standard level 15 ending. I wonder if that changes things.

Right now my stats are 18/12/12/12/18/14

Level six start to OotA.

Other party members are all 6: sorlock 5/1hexblade; eloquence bard; moon Druid (who is now embracing the rhino!)

I’m 6 tempest with a belt of dwarven kind, javelin of lightning, and maul +1. Took initiate wizard for BB, shocking grasp, and find familiar.

I honestly could go 18 con and wrestle ogre guantlets from the sorlock - but that’s a bit too meta-gamey for me. But still considering that.

Gonna take this to 9 and then figure out if I want 3 in land Druid, 1 in hexblade, 2 in Paladin, 3 in sorcerer or just ride it straight cleric to the end.

I get terrible paralysis by analysis on character builds since I’m basically dedicating 6+ months to this character. It took us 10 months to complete Lost Mines.


EDIT: changed up the stats a bit because I know I can get guantlets: 12/13/19/12/18/14

That includes v human and belt of DK bonuses. 13 dex is for a possible ranger MC. 14 cha for possible sorcerer. I’m ok wirh odd con as I can take resilient con later if I need to - and will feel good about it.

[CTurbo]

Sounds like the DM has us pegged for the standard level 15 ending. I wonder if that changes things.

Right now my stats are 18/12/12/12/18/14

Level six start to OotA.

Other party members are all 6: sorlock 5/1hexblade; eloquence bard; moon Druid (who is now embracing the rhino!)

I’m 6 tempest with a belt of dwarven kind, javelin of lightning, and maul +1. Took initiate wizard for BB, shocking grasp, and find familiar.

I honestly could go 18 con and wrestle ogre guantlets from the sorlock - but that’s a bit too meta-gamey for me. But still considering that.

Gonna take this to 9 and then figure out if I want 3 in land Druid, 1 in hexblade, 2 in Paladin, 3 in sorcerer or just ride it straight cleric to the end.

I get terrible paralysis by analysis on character builds since I’m basically dedicating 6+ months to this character. It took us 10 months to complete Lost Mines.

Have you mentioned your race and are those stats before racial mods?

I'd start 18 Str, 12 Dex, 14 Con, 12 Int, 18 Wis, 12 Cha and go Hill Dwarf for the +2 Con and +1 Wis on top of that.

I wouldn't consider Warlock, and Paladin has too many overlapping abilities. Besides, you don't want to be a Cleric with a 12 Con. You'll never be able to concentrate on your best spells. As great as Druid would be, you're going to be wearing and using all kinds of metal which really just won't make sense. So I say stick with Ranger or Fighter if you want to beef up your melee.

[Frogreaver]

I seen some mention of higher level cleric spells.

Some ones I like:

Level 9
Mass Heal
True Resurrection

Level 8
Holy Aura
Antimagic Field
Earthquake

Level 7
Conjure Celestial
Resurrection
Eathrealness
Plane Shift

Level 6
Create Undead
Heal
Heroe's Feast
Planar Ally

There's plenty of good spells out there.
*note remove simulcarum and wizards stop seeming nearly as strong in high levels. That spell is a problem as it breaks the action economy.

[CMCC]

Have you mentioned your race and are those stats before racial mods?

I'd start 18 Str, 12 Dex, 14 Con, 12 Int, 18 Wis, 12 Cha and go Hill Dwarf for the +2 Con and +1 Wis on top of that.

I wouldn't consider Warlock, and Paladin has too many overlapping abilities. Besides, you don't want to be a Cleric with a 12 Con. You'll never be able to concentrate on your best spells. As great as Druid would be, you're going to be wearing and using all kinds of metal which really just won't make sense. So I say stick with Ranger or Fighter if you want to beef up your melee.

V human - bonuses were included in stat line. I have the dwarven belt to get con to 14.

Maybe I will switch strength and con and try to get those ogre gauntlets.

Ugh completely forgot about the Druid restriction. Good call on that - def doesn’t fit this character.

2-3 levels of Paladin could be nice even with the channel divinity issues. 2 is prob better to avoid that. Maybe not worth it though.

I’d have to shift things for ranger but that seems like a solid option too. How does gloomstalker mix with tempest?

[CMCC]

I seen some mention of higher level cleric spells.

Some ones I like:

Level 9
Mass Heal
True Resurrection

Level 8
Holy Aura
Antimagic Field
Earthquake

Level 7
Conjure Celestial
Resurrection
Eathrealness
Plane Shift

Level 6
Create Undead
Heal
Heroe's Feast
Planar Ally

There's plenty of good spells out there.
*note remove simulcarum and wizards stop seeming nearly as strong in high levels. That spell is a problem as it breaks the action economy.

I see a lot of solid spells but nothing in that wish, Sim, contingency realm. But def some solid, fun ones.

Conjure celestial seems kind of awesome the more I think about it.

[Frogreaver]

I see a lot of solid spells but nothing in that wish, Sim, contingency realm. But def some solid, fun ones.

Conjure celestial seems kind of awesome the more I think about it.

Cleric spells don't have much flash. Most are there for substance. I don't think you can really compare anything to sim so I don't find it actually fair to even mention. The spell should never have been created.

Wish is very good. While not perfectly replicating it, i would say the clerics divine intervention is comparable enough to wish. DM's tend to be pretty forgiving when it comes to potential TPK situations and you giving them an out :smallsmile:

Contingency vs Heroes' Feast (both level 6 spells). I would say Heroes' Feast is better and if not better at least comparable in benefit. You are giving the whole party the following benefits and they last the whole adventuring day:
1. Immune to poision
2. Immune to fear
3. Wisdom saving throws made at advantage
4. Additional 2d10 max hp.

[CMCC]

Cleric spells don't have much flash. Most are there for substance. I don't think you can really compare anything to sim so I don't find it actually fair to even mention. The spell should never have been created.

Wish is very good. While not perfectly replicating it, i would say the clerics divine intervention is comparable enough to wish. DM's tend to be pretty forgiving when it comes to potential TPK situations and you giving them an out :smallsmile:

Contingency vs Heroes' Feast (both level 6 spells). I would say Heroes' Feast is better and if not better at least comparable in benefit. You are giving the whole party the following benefits and they last the whole adventuring day:
1. Immune to poision
2. Immune to fear
3. Wisdom saving throws made at advantage
4. Additional 2d10 max hp.

Yeah HF is def very good. That 1000gp cost though is pretty steep, hopefully doable in an underdark campaign.

I’m starting to like those higher levels spells a bit more now :)

[Nhorianscum]

Yeah HF is def very good. That 1000gp cost though is pretty steep, hopefully doable in an underdark campaign.

I’m starting to like those higher levels spells a bit more now :)

HF and antimagic field are sorta incredible as pretty much everything at the endgame is a horrific magical sanity destroying abomination.

Earthquake is um, you are underground, it's earthquake. I believe the saying is "rocks fall everything dies".

Divine word is just... completely unfair in this campain, in a lot of fights it's just "roll mass banishment on a bonus action with no concentration on everything in line of sight with upside and they are not coming back"

[CMCC]

HF and antimagic field are sorta incredible as pretty much everything at the endgame is a horrific magical sanity destroying abomination.

Earthquake is um, you are underground, it's earthquake. I believe the saying is "rocks fall everything dies".

Divine word is just... completely unfair in this campain, in a lot of fights it's just "roll mass banishment on a bonus action with no concentration on everything in line of sight with upside and they are not coming back"

Holy **** - that’s a bonus action. I completely missed that.

Yeah I think I’m going straight cleric.

[CMCC]

My DM let me trade all my magic items for the izzet engineer background - which adds some thematically fitting spells - shocking grasp, elemental weapon etc.

Straight cleric it is for sure now.

[Petrocorus]

My DM let me trade all my magic items for the izzet engineer background - which adds some thematically fitting spells - shocking grasp, elemental weapon etc.

Straight cleric it is for sure now.

Remember that Elemental Weapon requires concentration, just as Spirit Guardians.

[CMCC]

Remember that Elemental Weapon requires concentration, just as Spirit Guardians.

Yeah that’s partly why I don’t feel like I’m cheating with this background. If you could have both up at the same time it would be pretty insane.

I’m thinking for 1-2 tough enemies I go with EW, and for a bunch of enemies go with SG.

[CTurbo]

Yeah that’s partly why I don’t feel like I’m cheating with this background. If you could have both up at the same time it would be pretty insane.

I’m thinking for 1-2 tough enemies I go with EW, and for a bunch of enemies go with SG.

Elemental Weapon is a great spell....... to cast on your Fighter or Paladin buddy, but it's never going to be a great spell on any Cleric with a single attack IMO. Decent still, but not concentration worthy. If you go this route then the best way to make it worthwhile is with PAM and Sentinel so you can at least get some use out of it.

You already get Holy Weapon at level 9 that is superior too.

If you can get Shocking Grasp on the Cleric's spell list using Wis then that is nice though.

[CMCC]

Elemental Weapon is a great spell....... to cast on your Fighter or Paladin buddy, but it's never going to be a great spell on any Cleric with a single attack IMO. Decent still, but not concentration worthy. If you go this route then the best way to make it worthwhile is with PAM and Sentinel so you can at least get some use out of it.

You already get Holy Weapon at level 9 that is superior too.

If you can get Shocking Grasp on the Cleric's spell list using Wis then that is nice though.

We have all full casters in the party - so I’m the closest thing to a fighter or Paladin. But yeah - usually spiritual weapon/ guardians will be the go to as usual.

There is something cool about lightning and thunder damage on the same attack. But mechanically def not the strongest without PAM and Sentinel.

But you also get animate objects which is pretty awesome.

[RogueJK]

You have two ways to start w/ BB and not MC: High Elf or variant human.

Three: High Half Elf. (Trades the two free skills for a free Wizard cantrip.)

High Half Elf gets you a better stat distribution for a Melee Tempest Cleric than High Elf, with +2 CHA and +1 to two others (likely WIS and STR or CON), rather than +2 DEX and +1 INT.

[CMCC]

Three: High Half Elf. (Trades the two free skills for a free Wizard cantrip.)

High Half Elf gets you a better stat distribution for a Melee Tempest Cleric than High Elf, with +2 CHA and +1 to two others (likely WIS and STR or CON), rather than +2 DEX and +1 INT.

Vuman just seems outright better than half elf though.

[Frogreaver]

Vuman just seems outright better than half elf though.

What feat?

[CMCC]

What feat?

Magic initiate or spell sniper - if the goal is to get booming blade.

[RogueJK]

High Half Elf advantages over Variant Human:
-+2 to CHA
-Advantage against Charm spells
-Immunity to Sleep spells
-Darkvision
-Extra language (Elvish)

Variant Human with Magic Initiate advantages over High Half Elf:
-Extra skill proficiency
-Extra cantrip (probably Light since you won't have Darkvision...)
-1st level spell 1x/day

Variant Human with Spell Sniper advantages over High Half Elf:
-Extra skill proficiency
-Booming Blade with a reach weapon
-Doubled range and ignored cover for the occasional Guiding Bolt (which is the only Cleric spell to which Spell Sniper would apply)


So High Half Elf and Variant Human are both solid options, for different reasons... I'd say Variant Human with Spell Sniper is likely the weakest option of the above three, and would only be worth considering if you're dead-set on using a polearm or whip with Booming Blade. And mechanically, a polearm would be less optimal for a Cleric like this, since you wouldn't really be able to take advantage of Polearm Master or Great Weapon Master. But thematically, a DEX-based Tempest Cleric wielding a Thunder Whip seems kinda cool. :smallbiggrin:

[Nhorianscum]

Magic initiate or spell sniper - if the goal is to get booming blade.

High half elf is almost strictly better in OotA.

Because underdark

[CMCC]

High half elf is almost strictly better in OotA.

Because underdark

Haha. Fair play. Of course Light or a lantern negates some of that disparity - especially if you’re not planning on sneaking.

You’re basically sacrificing sneaking ability for a second cantrip/ find familiar spell.

Maybe not worth it. I haven’t played it yet. We’ll see i guess.