The Evoker and the Draconic Sorcerer

[Warlush]

So J.C. has said that when an Evoker casts Magic Missile they add their INT mod to every beam. Even though the PHB clearly states that you can add your mod to ONE damage roll.

It seems to be worded the same as the 6th level Draconic Sorcerer ability. Which everyone seems to agree when applied to scorching ray, only adds your CHA mod to one beam.

How has this happened?!?!

Why would J.C. rule it that way?!?!

[Quietus]

It's because of the way that they interpreted Magic Missile. I believe it was a Sage Advice - you roll damage for Magic Missile, but it's only 1d4. And that gets applied to every missile. The result of this is that when you use Evoker, and Hexblade's Curse, which add to a damage roll, you're unreasonably inflating EVERY missile, because they all share the same roll.

[LudicSavant]

So J.C. has said that when an Evoker casts Magic Missile they add their INT mod to every beam. Even though the PHB clearly states that you can add your mod to ONE damage roll.

It seems to be worded the same as the 6th level Draconic Sorcerer ability. Which everyone seems to agree when applied to scorching ray, only adds your CHA mod to one beam.

How has this happened?!?!

Why would J.C. rule it that way?!?!

It's because Magic Missile is one damage roll, but Scorching Ray is not. That's because Scorching Ray refers to the "multiple attack rolls" general rules, while Magic Missile refers to the "spells that are capable of hitting more than one target simultaneously" general rules. Magic Missile is just weird in that those simultaneous missiles don't have to target different people, like most of the spells that refer to those rules. But that's not what makes it refer to those rules -- you refer to them if it can, not if it must. And you definitely do not refer to the rules on attack rolls, because it's not an attack roll.

Before you jump on the Crawford hate train, you should be aware that rules answer communities came to the conclusion that it worked this way well before JC ever tweeted about it.

[Unoriginal]

It's because Magic Missile is one damage roll, but Scorching Ray is not. That's because Scorching Ray refers to the "multiple attack rolls" general rules, while Magic Missile refers to the "spells that are capable of hitting more than one target simultaneously" general rules. Magic Missile is just weird in that those simultaneous missiles don't have to target different people, like most of the spells that refer to those rules. But that's not what makes it refer to those rules -- you refer to them if it can, not if it must. And you definitely do not refer to the rules on attack rolls, because it's not an attack roll.

Before you jump on the Crawford hate train, you should be aware that rules answer communities came to the conclusion that it worked this way well before JC ever tweeted about it.

So in other words, you roll Magic Missile's damage once and then you decidewhich missile hits whom, while Fire Bolt has one damage roll per bolt, and such in both cases only one damage roll is affected?

Kinds of want to make me want to include a Draconic Sorcerer who is working on an Elemental Missile spell, in my setting.

[LudicSavant]

More or less (I'm assuming you meant "Scorching Ray" rather than "Fire Bolt" there).

Basically, the way you're 'supposed' to do it is that you roll the damage once, and use that damage roll for all the missiles, which all resolve simultaneously (using the rules for simultaneously-multi-hitting spells). Whereas for Scorching Ray, you would make separate attack rolls which each resolve individually (using the rules for successive attack rolls).

Note that Scorching Ray has its own damage boosting tricks that Magic Missile can't do, too. For example, Magic Missile won't work with the "Hex" spell, while Scorching Ray will.

[Warlush]

I love J.C. That's why it hurts. No hate intended.

[Frogreaver]

Ludic gave the JC rationale above.

I don't think there's any rule in the PHB that dictates that all magic missiles share the same damage roll in the instance of attacking a single creature. IMO, it's an unnecessary interpretation that greatly unbalances that particular combination by making it stronger than any other single target direct damage spell in the game.

Contrast with Scorching Ray which makes attacks and so there's at least some RAW guidance we can site on that particular spell that shows it to be separate damage rolls - page 194 of the PHB "Making an Attack" section.

There's no rule that specifies for magic missile whether when attacking 1 target with all the bolts whether you roll 1 damage roll and apply to each missile or damage roll per missile.

[Warlush]

Ludic gave the JC rationale above.

I don't think there's any rule in the PHB that dictates that all magic missiles share the same damage roll in the instance of attacking a single creature. IMO, it's an unnecessary interpretation that greatly unbalances that particular combination by making it stronger than any other single target direct damage spell in the game.

Contrast with Scorching Ray which makes attacks and so there's at least some RAW guidance we can site on that particular spell that shows it to be separate damage rolls - page 194 of the PHB "Making an Attack" section.

There's no rule that specifies for magic missile whether when attacking 1 target with all the bolts whether you roll 1 damage roll and apply to each missile or damage roll per missile.
I couldn't agree more.

Yeah I've read the spell over and over. I would never come to the conclusion Sage Advice has.

[Aimeryan]

Ludic gave the JC rationale above.

I don't think there's any rule in the PHB that dictates that all magic missiles share the same damage roll in the instance of attacking a single creature. IMO, it's an unnecessary interpretation that greatly unbalances that particular combination by making it stronger than any other single target direct damage spell in the game.

Contrast with Scorching Ray which makes attacks and so there's at least some RAW guidance we can site on that particular spell that shows it to be separate damage rolls - page 194 of the PHB "Making an Attack" section.

There's no rule that specifies for magic missile whether when attacking 1 target with all the bolts whether you roll 1 damage roll and apply to each missile or damage roll per missile.

The whole rationale of the JC ruling is wrong; there is a difference between a damage roll and rolling for damage. Here are the relevant quotes:


DAMAGE ROLLS
Each weapon, spell, and harmful monster ability specifies the damage it deals. You roll the damage die or dice, add any modifiers, and apply the damage to your target.


If a spell or other effect deals damage to more than one target at the same time, roll the damage once for all of them.

A damage roll is made up of two components: [roll the damage] + [add any modifiers]. The aoe-at-same-time rule only allows the first component to be shared - it says absolutely nothing about allowing modifiers to be shared.

So, if you roll 3 on a d4, then all targets have their damage roll use the 3 from the roll the damage component - this saves a lot of time. Each damage roll is still then subject to their own add any modifiers, however - which in the case of things like Empowered Evocation and Hex specify that they only apply to one damage roll. So, one target will receive that additional damage from the modifier, not all.