Warforged Forge Cleric - would this lack damage?

[Londoner]

Hi,

Starting a new 5e campaign with a few newbies all who are looking to play squishy casters.
I'm thinking about playing something tanky, and have only played as a Rogue and a few levels of Monk previously - so I'm tempted to try a caster.

I'm tempted by a Warforged forge cleric, I know a Hill Dwarf is the norm but I like the idea of tying in a warforged being obsessed with forging/creation.
The big thing the character would miss would be a warhammer, would a level 2 dip to fighter 1 be sensible then cleric the whole way?

Could I just wield a quarterstaff throughout and still be useful throughout a campaign (hopefully this group will work and these characters would be long-term though multiple campaigns)?

Thanks for any help!

[da newt]

I'd start Fighter 1, Def FS, then go all Forge Cleric from there out.

I also think your normal modus operandi will likely be Spiritual Guardians, Spiritual Weapon, and Dodge more often than weapon attacks once you get a few levels.

W/ the +1 AC from Forge Cleric, +1 AC from Def FS, +1 AC from Warforged, chainmail and shield, you are at 21 AC. Bump up to plate and 23.

[stoutstien]

How often are planning to swing a weapon that ~1 damage will make any real difference?

[Londoner]

How often are planning to swing a weapon that ~1 damage will make any real difference?

I'm hoping someone with experience of playing a cleric/forge cleric could tell me?

The def, or even dualist FS could be interesting for higher AC/Damage I've seen that after a certain level damage is more important than A/C - should this be a factor?

[CTurbo]

Don't dip Fighter just for better weapons, but starting with a level of Fighter is almost worth it just for the +1 extra AC and Con save proficiency. The extra weapon proficiency is nice and having a Warhammer is flavorful, but you're rarely going to want to make weapon attacks anyway.

I do love the idea of a Warforged Forge Cleric though. Ask your DM if you can use the Variant Warforged options and be an Envoy Warforged for the Wis bump and being able to incorporate your Smiths tools in your body.

[Deathtongue]

Could I just wield a quarterstaff throughout and still be useful throughout a campaign (hopefully this group will work and these characters would be long-term though multiple campaigns)?

Thanks for any help!
Absolutely. Forge Cleric, like most Clerics, are extremely solid builds that are good when you first get them and good until the last drop. Warforged Cleric is a very good choice, since you can have a Sky-High CON, a Vital 16 in WIS starting off, and even an AC Bonus. Two +2 WIS ASIs and Resilient: CON -- taken in any order you please -- is going to make you an incredibly tough customer.

That said, clerics built for long-term viability are going to have weak melee. It's honestly not that big of a deal, since the melee capabilities of a cleric tend to fall off long-term anyway thanks to the magic of action clog and exponential spellcasting utility. If Gauntlets of Ogre Power / Belts of Hill Giant Strength drop, it's an okay way to go.

I mean, look at what you get:

Levels 1 - 2: You have heavy armor proficiency, shields, and access to Bless and Healing Word. Because you're a Forge Cleric AND a Warforged, you can get a 20 AC out of the gate if you use a Shield. Throw in some Shield of Faith Action and you will be all-but-unhittable. You will be the anchor of the party at these low levels, the very dangerous ones. These are the levels in which melee is the best, but if you can resist the temptation you can instead put points into some other stat, either for roleplaying potential or just to get a better initiative.

Levels 3 - 4: Heat Metal will completely shut down the right kind of encounter. If you're doing short workdays, Spiritual Weapon will make you one of the premier damage-dealers of the party, especially if you started with a 16 in Wisdom and put an ASI in WISDOM.

Levels 5 - 6: Spirit Guardians makes your damage shoot up into the stratosphere. Seriously, two rounds of it is like having a party-safe Fireball. You also get yet another AC bonus. Your AC without using spells can be 23 (Warforged + Forge Cleric + Full-Plate + Shield) -- that's end-game AC a lot of level 20 martials will never get to. Mass Healing Word will also make you the party's savior. That spell has saved so many T2-T3 parties it's unbelievable.

Levels 7 - 8: You get another ASI. Wall of Fire is really good. Not just for damage, but because it blocks line of sight it can buy your party a round. Banishment gives you a really strong save-or-suck that will serve you for the rest of the game. You're also at the level where you can use Command and Blindness/Deafness more often, which will make you that much better.

Levels 9+: You get access to Animate Objects. This spell is almost brokenly good. Your damage will skyrocket to the point where you will often be the MVP of battle. You also get Contagion, which got errata'd to be much better on tables which had a stricter interpretation of when the disease took hold.


But yeah, you picked a very good combination. It's not going to have the best melee, but everything else in your toolkit is so good that you won't miss it.

[Londoner]

Thanks all, very reassuring. I'm tempted to go pure cleric then - I should be able to get away with flavouring a forge hammer as a mace.

That mini-guide will be very useful @Deathtongue! Thank for pointing out Resilient.
I was looking at 15 Str, 10 Dex, 14 (+2) Con, 15 (+1) Wis, 8 Int, 8 Cha.. But With that it makes sense to dump the dex for 15 Con. Unless the DM lets me ignore the Str req for Heavy Armour.

[LudicSavant]

How often are planning to swing a weapon that ~1 damage will make any real difference?


I'm hoping someone with experience of playing a cleric/forge cleric could tell me?

The def, or even dualist FS could be interesting for higher AC/Damage I've seen that after a certain level damage is more important than A/C - should this be a factor?

Martial weapon proficiency will be a relatively minor factor in the damage output of a character who doesn't get Extra Attacks.

Delaying your access to things like Spiritual Weapon or Spirit Guardians on the other hand, definitely will.

[Frogreaver]

Unless your investing into melee attacks, booming blade or polearm master, etc, then wisdom and using a cantrip yourself is probably going to be better in most situations.

[MinotaurWarrior]

I'm playing this exactly right now.

One straightforward point to add is that toll the dead, when "on" is going to be better than your melee and much better than your ranged attacks. It's already the same as a +3 Str quarterstaff or a +2 STR Warhammer. Being stuck with a +2 STR quarterstaff, I'd almost rather just have something else in my "main" hand.

The broader issue is offense vs defense, which depends on party comp and what you'll be fighting.

The squishier and further back the rest of your party is, the more enemies target AC and are melee focused, the better you are.

[Deathtongue]

Thanks all, very reassuring. I'm tempted to go pure cleric then - I should be able to get away with flavouring a forge hammer as a mace.

That mini-guide will be very useful @Deathtongue! Thank for pointing out Resilient.
I was looking at 15 Str, 10 Dex, 14 (+2) Con, 15 (+1) Wis, 8 Int, 8 Cha.. But With that it makes sense to dump the dex for 15 Con. Unless the DM lets me ignore the Str req for Heavy Armour.

Heavy Armor reduces your speed to 20 if you don't have the appropriate strength for it, but that's the only penalty. That said, it is genuinely an enormous pain in the butt even if you mostly use ranged cantrips and spells and you're backed up by some mount/Phantom Steed action. But I think it's worth it in order to put those points in some other category. And if your DM ever drops magical items, you can always patch that strength and/or speed up by other peans.

[da newt]

If you dump ST and go heavy armor, you can gain mobility via a mount.

[MinotaurWarrior]

If you dump ST and go heavy armor, you can gain mobility via a mount.

Here's the downsides to that plan, and why I'm not doing it:


Horses cost money, and you want to save for splint / plate
Feed costs money
Horses aren't made of metal, so you can't transform them into other stuff (though with an intentionally dumb reading of the RAW, you can clone a shod horse)
Horses can't climb ladders
Horses can get killed while you're riding them
Horses can get killed or stolen while you're not riding them

[Londoner]

I'm playing this exactly right now.

One straightforward point to add is that toll the dead, when "on" is going to be better than your melee



I managed to miss this cantrip, it looks a better option than Sacred Flame - at least at low levels.
What were your initial ability scores?

[AttilatheYeon]

I managed to miss this cantrip, it looks a better option than Sacred Flame - at least at low levels.
What were your initial ability scores?

I'm a big fan of layering damage. So i'll second Sacred weapon > Spiritual guardians > Toll the dead. But, at level 8 you may consider mixing in a little melee as you add fire damage on the 1st melee hit.

[MinotaurWarrior]

I managed to miss this cantrip, it looks a better option than Sacred Flame - at least at low levels.
What were your initial ability scores?

15 STR
8 DEX
17 CON
8 INT
16 WIS
8 CHA

My planned ASI's are:

4: Resilient CON
8: WIS
12: WIS
16: Warcaster
19: Shield Master

This is heavily influenced by party composition. I've got three ranged squishies and a barbarian backstop. The wizard's job is to save me from mind flayers - it my job to save him from everything else.

But yeah, here's the basic offensive plan:

Level 1-2: Toll, backup quarterstaff
Level 3-4: Heat Metal + Toll
Level 5+ Spirit Guardians + Spiritual weapon + Cantrip

At level 8, my divine strike will be 1d6+1d8+2, 10DPR. Toll will deal 2d12, 13DPR. At level 14 the staff is 1d6+2d8+2, 14.5DPR. Toll is 3d12, or 19.5 DPR.

I wouldn't claim this is optimal or anything. But it works and is fun. I think if you were really trying to optimize things you'd have stats to enable dips, but whenever I'm playing a cleric I want the possibility of getting that capstone if only for RP reasons.

[Londoner]

15 STR
8 DEX
17 CON
8 INT
16 WIS
8 CHA

My planned ASI's are:

4: Resilient CON
8: WIS
12: WIS
16: Warcaster
19: Shield Master

This is heavily influenced by party composition. I've got three ranged squishies and a barbarian backstop. The wizard's job is to save me from mind flayers - it my job to save him from everything else.

But yeah, here's the basic offensive plan:

Level 1-2: Toll, backup quarterstaff
Level 3-4: Heat Metal + Toll
Level 5+ Spirit Guardians + Spiritual weapon + Cantrip

At level 8, my divine strike will be 1d6+1d8+2, 10DPR. Toll will deal 2d12, 13DPR. At level 14 the staff is 1d6+2d8+2, 14.5DPR. Toll is 3d12, or 19.5 DPR.

I wouldn't claim this is optimal or anything. But it works and is fun. I think if you were really trying to optimize things you'd have stats to enable dips, but whenever I'm playing a cleric I want the possibility of getting that capstone if only for RP reasons.


Thanks, I was planning similar.. Might look to go WIS -> Warcaster/Resilient -> WIS -> the other on the ASIs though.
Being able to cast a spell for an opportunity attack if enemies look to move past me might make warcaster more of a priority.
I've asked the DM whether we could allow a 'Dwarf light' ruling where 13 STR would reduce Heavy Armour speed penalty to 5ft (giving a movement speed of 25ft) since that'd allow a slightly more rounded character - probably with dex and int at 10.

[MinotaurWarrior]

Thanks, I was planning similar.. Might look to go WIS -> Warcaster/Resilient -> WIS -> the other on the ASIs though.
Being able to cast a spell for an opportunity attack if enemies look to move past me might make warcaster more of a priority.
I've asked the DM whether we could allow a 'Dwarf light' ruling where 13 STR would reduce Heavy Armour speed penalty to 5ft (giving a movement speed of 25ft) since that'd allow a slightly more rounded character - probably with dex and int at 10.

Warcaster goes up in value if you don't have a "backstop" like my barbarian friend. One thing to consider is preparing command for use as a reaction specifically. Using it just to trigger cantrips isn't quite as good for you (Toll) as it is for someone using BB/GFB.

If you do get that house rule boon, I might consider going for another stat at 13 to make a MC Dip.