Pack Tactics on ranged attacks?

[samcifer]

So I'm playing a kobold rogue with the crossbow expert feat and the dm said pack tactics only works for melee attacks. Is he correct on this?

[Tawmis]

So I'm playing a kobold rogue with the crossbow expert feat and the dm said pack tactics only works for melee attacks. Is he correct on this?

I'd disagree with your DM. Searched in Reddit - found another who agrees:
https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/141499/does-the-kobold-player-race-feature-pack-tactics-give-ranged-attacks-advantage

For the very fact that - it's not specified if it's MELEE only.

Indeed, Pack Tactics only requires that you have an ally within 5 feet of the target so this would work with any attack, including ranged spell or weapon attacks.

If the feature only worked for melee attacks it would say so, but it doesn't, so any attack works.

[AttilatheYeon]

So I'm playing a kobold rogue with the crossbow expert feat and the dm said pack tactics only works for melee attacks. Is he correct on this?

Remind your dm that you have a -2 str and sunlight sensitivity. You should get at least one nice thing.

[IsaacsAlterEgo]

Remind your dm that you have a -2 str and sunlight sensitivity. You should get at least one nice thing.

Also remind your DM that the strength negative has been errata'd out and no longer exists, if you're still running with that.

Kobolds have always been considered a fairly weak racial option even with pack tactics and there's no real reason to punish them further beyond the negative they have in the official rules (sunlight sensitivity) unless your DM just doesn't want Kobolds in their game for whatever reason.

[Contrast]

First thing to check would be if they were making a ruling when they said that or if they were just saying what they thought the rules were.

I suspect you DM has misread/misrembered the Pack Tactics feature.


You have advantage on an attack roll against a creature if at least one of your allies is within 5 feet of the creature and the ally isn’t incapacitated.

You ally needs to be standing within 5ft. There's no requirement for you to be positioned anywhere in particular or a restriction to a type of melee attack.



Also remind your DM that the strength negative has been errata'd out and no longer exists, if you're still running with that.

Kobolds have always been considered a fairly weak racial option even with pack tactics and there's no real reason to punish them further beyond the negative they have in the official rules (sunlight sensitivity) unless your DM just doesn't want Kobolds in their game for whatever reason.

I'm surprised to hear that, I never thought kobolds were weak even with the negative strength and without it they're only improved. You work with their limitations but their abilities will generally work out to either mean you have free advantage (very powerful) or are attacking normally and cancelling any disadvantage that might normally get imposed (fine). The grovel ability is also sitationally very powerful.

[Petrocorus]

Yes, Pack Tactics does at range. There is a reason it is considered so powerful.

In fact, i believe if the Kobolds have so big drawbacks; the sunlight sensitivity without superior darkvision (which is not that bad), the Str malus, and the total ASI of +0; that's in order to compensate for pack tactics.


Also remind your DM that the strength negative has been errata'd out and no longer exists, if you're still running with that.
Where is this errata? Not in the Volo's errata.

[IsaacsAlterEgo]

Where is this errata? Not in the Volo's errata.
Um...Yes, it is!

https://media.wizards.com/2020/dnd/downloads/VGtM-Errata.pdf

Under "Kobold Traits".

[MeeposFire]

First thing to check would be if they were making a ruling when they said that or if they were just saying what they thought the rules were.

I suspect you DM has misread/misrembered the Pack Tactics feature.



You ally needs to be standing within 5ft. There's no requirement for you to be positioned anywhere in particular or a restriction to a type of melee attack.




I'm surprised to hear that, I never thought kobolds were weak even with the negative strength and without it they're only improved. You work with their limitations but their abilities will generally work out to either mean you have free advantage (very powerful) or are attacking normally and cancelling any disadvantage that might normally get imposed (fine). The grovel ability is also sitationally very powerful.

Always keep in mind that some things in the game are more about theme rather than balancing due to power. For example the weapon restrictions on sneak attack and how drow have sunlight issues despite having nothing powerful to offset. A drow would not be a top tier choice without the sunlight problems but those problems are iconic for the race so they get it anyway despite balancewise not needing it.

Kobold str penalty and orc int penalties are more a throwback to the older games and themes than a balance concern.

[Petrocorus]

Um...Yes, it is!

https://media.wizards.com/2020/dnd/downloads/VGtM-Errata.pdf

Under "Kobold Traits".

What the ....?!
I googled it yesterday just before posting. The file i got didn't have half of this.

Edit: Checked my history, apparently google linked me to the 2017 pdf.

[MaxWilson]

I'm surprised to hear that, I never thought kobolds were weak even with the negative strength and without it they're only improved. You work with their limitations but their abilities will generally work out to either mean you have free advantage (very powerful) or are attacking normally and cancelling any disadvantage that might normally get imposed (fine). The grovel ability is also sitationally very powerful.

Concur, kobold Sharpshooters are brutal indoors.