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View Full Version : DM Help How should I run this? (nasty black dragon + Crytal ball)



HoboKnight
2020-10-05, 05:31 AM
Hey guys,

so I have this PC group, pressed into service of an ancient, really nasty Black Dragon (sort of Ramsay Bolton character). Her hobbies are terrorizing the region and torture - of all kinds. PCs have sort of sneaked into her service by claiming, they are fugitives and ready to do pretty much anything to please her. Since she meddles in politics and communities of the region, dragons' acolytes have accepted PCs into her service. PCs were given task of venturing out of Black Dragons' swamp to fetch a sacrifice (a small child) from a village, dragon deems its property. (The village, the child, the villagers and their chamberpots. Everything) PCs have travelled to the village and they are messing up. They did not pick up the proper person (knowingly) and want to plant a wrong person to the dragon.

They've arrived to the village, realizing, the selected child was already picked up by his mum and that they are already on their merry way to evade child's fate in the swamp. Instead of tracking the child & mum down, PCs have kidnapped dragons' representative in the village, cut off her tongue and have a plan of bringing her to the sacrificial altar in the middle of a swamp. Perhaps, they will "fetch" a few adittional "gifts" among the villagers too.

Unknowingly to the PCs, Black dragon has a Crytal ball and is constantly scrying on them. The Dragon does not know everything, they are doing, but knows the following:
- PCs did not follow the orders they got
- They want to plant some other person to her as sacrifice

Now, this is a sadistic, old black dragon, with centuries of experience in machinations&torture. I want to run it as a exceptionally malicious and cunning.

So, given that the dragon knows of what PCs are doing (or not doing) I'm wondering, what would be a proper way to run the dragon in this case? Just running her onto them an bathing them into acid, is waaay below dragons' machinations. Surely, the first thing to do is for PCs to think, how cunning they are. Dragon perhaps seemingly accepts the new sacrifice, leaving PCs with the feeling of great sucess ... For it to horribly, horribly backfire on them.
I mean, just tossing the PCs into some torture pits is waaay below the dragon. Dragon wants suffering, real suffering of PCs.

It's also important to note, PCs are unimportant to the dragon. Torture and fun are way above having loyal minions. Making an example of them in front of all other minions, is second to just making them suffer immensely due to their misdeeds. Loyalty is good, suffering is better and even obeying their tasks to the letter results in punishment and loss for PCs. Full on CE.

How should I run this?

Lvl 2 Expert
2020-10-05, 05:58 AM
It might be easier to combine your threads about this. As it is they tell such a different side of the story it's hard to tell what's going on or how anyone would react.

HoboKnight
2020-10-05, 06:40 AM
As it is they tell such a different side of the story it's hard to tell what's going on or how anyone would react.
This is exatly the point of threads being separated. Each thread is an aspect of a different entity and I really appreciate playgrounders advising with such, separate info.

Mastikator
2020-10-05, 07:00 AM
The dragon dispatches someone else to fetch the real sacrifices. Upon arrival of the PCs they are forced to wittness the dragon eat the sacrifices, after that they are sacrificed one after another, forced to witness as their compatriots are eaten alive.

Then after the TTPK you can say good bye to your players as they are sure to not want to play with you again. Congratulations?

An idea to have this not end horribly:
Maybe the dragon's servants are sick of the dragons antics and decide to revolt, as they see the PCs as a chance of freedom. So before the PCs are brought to the dragon one of the servants inform them that it's a trap but they want to revolt.
If the PCs had a chance to kill the dragon surely they would've done that when they first met the dragon instead of being coerced into being complicit in the dragon's dark hunger.

HoboKnight
2020-10-05, 07:04 AM
The dragon dispatches someone else to fetch the real sacrifices. Upon arrival of the PCs they are forced to wittness the dragon eat the sacrifices, after that they are sacrificed one after another, forced to witness as their compatriots are eaten alive.

Splendid! :D The rest is my problem.

Vahnavoi
2020-10-05, 08:09 AM
The dragon knows they have the wrong sacrifice(s), so it frees those sacrifices, heals them and then empowers them to enact gruesome revenge on the player characters.

hifidelity2
2020-10-05, 08:12 AM
The Dragon sends his minions to get people who mean something to the PCs (Family / Friends etc)
The Dragon will eat the sacrifices and maybe one of the above. He will then send out the PCs to get the real victim - if they dont then the Familty / friends all get eaten

This gives the PCs a "nice" moral dilemma which the Dragon will love watching them agonise over

Mastikator
2020-10-05, 08:51 AM
The Dragon sends his minions to get people who mean something to the PCs (Family / Friends etc)
The Dragon will eat the sacrifices and maybe one of the above. He will then send out the PCs to get the real victim - if they dont then the Familty / friends all get eaten

This gives the PCs a "nice" moral dilemma which the Dragon will love watching them agonise over

I'd argue this violates an important principle in DMing: don't insert or change things in the PCs backstory without their express consent, don't randomly kill their backstory NPCs without at least foreshadowing. It would agonize the player more than the PC

Kol Korran
2020-10-05, 10:55 AM
Hmmmm, a loooong time ago, when I was a child, there was the incisent I remember to this day. You can use it if you wish:

Our party tracked and infiltrated a master slaver's abode. He ran a truly ruthless and efficient outfit, and had the reputation of one mean bastard. We failed, and were captured. When we were broughr in chains in front of him, he asked a simple question "which of you do the reat of you trust with your fates? I will ask my next question of him." Once we chose, he grinned and leaned forward. "You? Very well. Few got as far, so I'll tell you what- You choose. You will be set free to thw wastes, with nothing. Of your friends? One I will slay here, in front of you, and he WILL suffer... the second I'll sell to a life of toil, suffering and slavery. Trust me, he won't be able to run away. And the third will join you in the wastes.
Now clumo the others mouths! You got 1 minute to answer!"

Other than the leader, the other players were dissalowed to speak till the minute passed. You can imagine the looks, and the horrific decision. After the minue passed, the leader, with a croacked and hesitant voice spoke and made his choice. He tries explaining and justifying (We were cool with it as players by the way, it was old school gaming, and it was done quite well). Still, not an easy moment.

But it didn't end there... once the choices were made, the slaver laughed. "Good, just so your friends know what you think of them. But..." and then he switched the choices! The one to be set free was sold to slavery, the one meant to be sold to slavery was buthchered, and the one that the leader chose will die, was sent free with him...

We never, ever, met a nastier, more sadistic as*hole since. And boy did we hate him! And quite admired him as well! We had 2.5 grouos die before we could avenge it.

But... you have to have the right group for this. People who accept the world is cruel, unfair, and trust the DM to play the enemies to the hilt, and won't see this as a d*ck move. I myself never had the balls for it, but maybe it will be right for you.

The DM done that to use when we were about 9-10 years old? And I still remember it...
Bastard!

HoboKnight
2020-10-06, 03:24 AM
Hmmmm, a loooong time ago, when I was a child, there was the incisent I remember to this day. You can use it if you wish:

Our party tracked and infiltrated a master slaver's abode. He ran a truly ruthless and efficient outfit, and had the reputation of one mean bastard. We failed, and were captured. When we were broughr in chains in front of him, he asked a simple question "which of you do the reat of you trust with your fates? I will ask my next question of him." Once we chose, he grinned and leaned forward. "You? Very well. Few got as far, so I'll tell you what- You choose. You will be set free to thw wastes, with nothing. Of your friends? One I will slay here, in front of you, and he WILL suffer... the second I'll sell to a life of toil, suffering and slavery. Trust me, he won't be able to run away. And the third will join you in the wastes.
Now clumo the others mouths! You got 1 minute to answer!"

Other than the leader, the other players were dissalowed to speak till the minute passed. You can imagine the looks, and the horrific decision. After the minue passed, the leader, with a croacked and hesitant voice spoke and made his choice. He tries explaining and justifying (We were cool with it as players by the way, it was old school gaming, and it was done quite well). Still, not an easy moment.

But it didn't end there... once the choices were made, the slaver laughed. "Good, just so your friends know what you think of them. But..." and then he switched the choices! The one to be set free was sold to slavery, the one meant to be sold to slavery was buthchered, and the one that the leader chose will die, was sent free with him...

We never, ever, met a nastier, more sadistic as*hole since. And boy did we hate him! And quite admired him as well! We had 2.5 grouos die before we could avenge it.

But... you have to have the right group for this. People who accept the world is cruel, unfair, and trust the DM to play the enemies to the hilt, and won't see this as a d*ck move. I myself never had the balls for it, but maybe it will be right for you.

The DM done that to use when we were about 9-10 years old? And I still remember it...
Bastard!

AMAZING contribution. I'm taking it.

hifidelity2
2020-10-06, 05:45 AM
I'd argue this violates an important principle in DMing: don't insert or change things in the PCs backstory without their express consent, don't randomly kill their backstory NPCs without at least foreshadowing. It would agonize the player more than the PC

With the group I play with they know that any backstory is fair game for the DM to use and will where possible become part of the plot

HoboKnight
2020-10-06, 06:20 AM
I'd argue this violates an important principle in DMing: don't insert or change things in the PCs backstory without their express consent, don't randomly kill their backstory NPCs without at least foreshadowing. It would agonize the player more than the PC
My PCs are all orphans. And even if they weren't, players would not bat an eye at some NPCs being sloughtered, even if these NPCs were described as their parents or siblings.

Mastikator
2020-10-06, 07:14 AM
My PCs are all orphans. And even if they weren't, players would not bat an eye at some NPCs being sloughtered, even if these NPCs were described as their parents or siblings.

Murderhobos, gotcha. Torture away

Xervous
2020-10-06, 07:47 AM
Tongueless acolyte gets a big red F for their performance. You can have the dragon accept the sacrifice 100% deadpan. What’s the party to do, call its bluff and antagonize it?

Next mission the dragon wants another sacrifice, an escaped villager suspected to be detained a few towns over. Describe the NPC in ways that make them distinct and memorable, leaving no wiggle room for ‘accidentally’ grabbing the wrong one. Suggest that there’s a big price for failure to force the players to choose whether they play along, come up with some elaborate plan, or just leave.

Place the town just beyond the edge of the dragon’s immediate influence. Circulate unconfirmed suspicions that the local officials are at least mildly corrupt, of the sort that would deal with the dragon at least out of convenience. Do make a point of the officials being strict and efficient.

The detained villager is in fact an agent of the dragon sent out to talk over business arrangements. At first brush the PCs won’t be told much more than ‘a criminal from the swamps is detained and their fate is undecided’. The dragon is relying on the PCs knee jerk disobedience here. Mr constable doesn’t know who has been been successfully bought so he needs more time to question the detainee. Attempts to intimidate him will lead him to assume the worst, and the players coming from the swamp won’t do them many favors.

Sprinkle in a few other faces of note. The ignorant npc of note who doesn’t see why this escapee can’t go free. The greedy, obviously been bought by the dragon npc who doesn’t want anyone else splitting the dragon benefits they up til recently were the only one getting.

On the surface you’re layering these false trails which can lead the PCs to doing the dragon’s true bidding. Antagonize and maybe kill the constable, free the dragon’s agent. If they start sniffing around rather than bopping heads by all means reward them with information up til they have enough to make a proper conclusion, assuming they don’t antagonize the wrong NPCs.

PCs murderhobo the grumpy officials and free the agent? Dragon says job well done. PCs retrieve the agent that failed their job? Well they did the dragon’s literal bidding, that gets a job well done. If they prove to the dragon that they’re a disobedient blunt force the dragon can attempt to make use of them through misinformation. Either the dragon calls them on their incompetence and makes an example (go for pets if your players are the collecting sort, keep a few hostage and have them get used for snacks), they break the illusion that they’re willing to work for the dragon, etc.

icefractal
2020-10-07, 01:49 PM
Splendid! :D The rest is my problem. (Regarding a fairly sadistic TPK)

My PCs are all orphans. And even if they weren't, players would not bat an eye at some NPCs being sloughtered, even if these NPCs were described as their parents or siblings.You think these might be connected? :smallwink: