Best character build channel?

[CMCC]

Anyone have any good suggestions for YouTube channels with good build videos?

Obviously treantmonk. He’s the best I know of by quite a long shot.

Min/max, nerdarchy, dawnforged etc are all ok with their strengths and weaknesses.

Others?

[OldTrees1]

Unfortunately I find Treantmonk to be underinformed, so if that is the best channel you found, I suggest reading handbooks over listening to channels.

List of class handbooks (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?377491)

[CMCC]

Unfortunately I find Treantmonk to be underinformed, so if that is the best channel you found, I suggest reading handbooks over listening to channels.

List of class handbooks (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?377491)

Has this been updated?

[MaxWilson]

Anyone have any good suggestions for YouTube channels with good build videos?

Obviously treantmonk. He’s the best I know of by quite a long shot.

Min/max, nerdarchy, dawnforged etc are all ok with their strengths and weaknesses.

Others?

Why the interest in videos in particular? Just for the entertainment value?

Videos have a poor signal-to-noise ratio for this sort of thing.

[Dork_Forge]

Due to personal circumstances (covid related and my partner's mom passed away whilst we're on a different continent) our channel hasn't been updated recently, but we've started work for our next video. Mostly builds with some tips thrown in, with free build guides in the descriptions. (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCybuPwQNLuXzfN7SgTy4wDg/videos)

[LudicSavant]

Anyone have any good suggestions for YouTube channels with good build videos?

Obviously treantmonk. He’s the best I know of by quite a long shot.

Min/max, nerdarchy, dawnforged etc are all ok with their strengths and weaknesses.

Others?

Hmm. All the best sources I know of are people who don't make videos, unfortunately.

Perhaps they should start? Hmm...

[OldTrees1]

Has this been updated?

Last edited by Daishain; 2020-07-01 at 06:39 PM.

Also handbooks don't really get outdated. Their information is still relevant.

[LudicSavant]

Has this been updated?

Looks like the last edit was about 3 months ago, though the guides themselves seem to mostly be old stuff.

[CMCC]

Hmm. All the best sources I know of are people who don't make videos, unfortunately.

Perhaps they should start? Hmm...

They (you) should.

You put out a quality product and out a lot of effort into it. Get paid ;)

[CMCC]

Why the interest in videos in particular? Just for the entertainment value?

Videos have a poor signal-to-noise ratio for this sort of thing.

Sometimes I want to chill at the end of the night, have a drink, and watch a build vid :)

The visuals can often be useful especially with roll20 and digging into combat tactics of the build.

[Waazraath]

Unfortunately I find Treantmonk to be underinformed, so if that is the best channel you found, I suggest reading handbooks over listening to channels.

List of class handbooks (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?377491)

Amen to reading handbooks instead. I never understood anyway why I should watch a youtube clip for information that I can also get by reading, which takes me a helluvalot less time. I don't know about treantmonks channel (don't watch it), but the thread some time ago about his takes on monks (and his participation in that discussion) didn't colour me too impressed.


Looks like the last edit was about 3 months ago, though the guides themselves seem to mostly be old stuff.

But not that many books with player options have come out the past 3 months, I think. Several handbooks are being kept updated quite well (with revisions after Xanathar's, for example), but not all.

To be honest though: I'm not impressed with all handbooks either. Some are really good, some aren't, and some good ones have bad parts. The advantage of handbooks on fora like this is that the hive mind can improve them, but some authors are not really well with taking critisism, and refuse to make any changes even when a number of people give (imo: good) arguments). Then again, at least here there is the possiblity that there are improvements after some peer feedback, unlike when you watch something posted on YouTube.

[Unoriginal]

Obviously treantmonk. He’s the best I know of by quite a long shot.

Don't know many character building channels, but Treantmonk is terrible at building characters. Skilled at video-making, sure, but not at character building.

[CMCC]

Don't know many character building channels, but Treantmonk is terrible at building characters. Skilled at video-making, sure, but not at character building.

Ha I would say just the opposite. Although he’s gotten better at videos he actually was pretty bad at it.

Let me guess, you like monks?

[Unoriginal]

Let me guess, you like monks?

I do, but my opinion on Treantmonk's work was formed long before he made his Monk video, if that's what you mean.

I've never seen any of his work that wasn't misleading bombast attempting to hide an ultimately disappointing (and oftentimes self-handicapping) build which he "justifies" with poorly-thought-out "reasoning".

Chief among those his whole "god wizard" thing, which people have thankfully brought up less in recent time.

[CMCC]

I do, but my opinion on Treantmonk's work was formed long before he made his Monk video, if that's what you mean.

I've never seen any of his work that wasn't misleading bombast attempting to hide an ultimately disappointing (and oftentimes self-handicapping) build which he "justifies" with poorly-thought-out "reasoning".

Chief among those his whole "god wizard" thing, which people have thankfully brought up less in recent time.

Uhhh. Okay.

[TrueAlphaGamer]

IMO the ones I've seen have all been either kind of trash or really boring (though the same is kinda true for basically all D&D/TTRPG youtubers rn haha :smallbiggrin:. Haven't seen anyone as entertaining or naturally charismatic just by himself as Spoony/CounterMonkey, with the possible exception of Seth Skorkowsky).

As has been mentioned, if you're just looking for character builds then reading handbooks/guides is probably your best bet. Some youtubers do have decent analysis of class abilities/spells (Treantmonk is fine for this, and maybe Zee Bashew but his content output goes at a glacial pace). I would recommend using videos/guides as a springboard for your own experimentation! There's a lot of consensus on opinion/meta at this point so you might find that any guides you look at repeat the same things.

[CMCC]

It’s crazy to me how low the number of creators seems to be, yet the amount of subscribers and views are actually quite high. Surprisingly high to me - and I work in digital marketing analytics.

Seems that there is room for charismatic, really smart creators with interesting builds.

I guess a lot of those creators do videos that explain and breakdown classes and rules more than just builds - so it’s a mix.

[KorvinStarmast]

Why the interest in videos in particular? Just for the entertainment value?

Videos have a poor signal-to-noise ratio for this sort of thing. Correct. My time is more effectively spent on guides in written form.
All the best sources I know of are people who don't make videos, unfortunately. Yep.

Skilled at video-making, sure, but not at character building. His videos are sloppy, at best. He'll spend ten minutes to deliver two to three minutes of information. (He's not alone in this shortcoming, a great many of the youtubery are just as bad, and Matt C is getting that way).
Chief among those his whole "god wizard" thing, which people have thankfully brought up less in recent time. The best style point for his guides is his 'walk you through from 1 through 20 level by level; I wish more guides spent a bit more time on walking you level by level through a build.

[Unoriginal]

It’s crazy to me how low the number of creators seems to be, yet the amount of subscribers and views are actually quite high. Surprisingly high to me - and I work in digital marketing analytics.

I mean I don't know anything about digital marketing analytics, but that seems pretty coherent to me: the number of creators for that kind of content is low, so any viewer interested on the topic will be herded toward said creators.

Any time I visit one of those channels, Youtube keeps recommending other channels about D&D to me for a while, so it might also be a question of Youtube actually managing to make viewers of one channel seeks more similar content in the restricted pool they have access to.



His videos are sloppy, at best. He'll spend ten minutes to deliver two to three minutes of information.

Fair, I suppose calling him skilled at video-making was an overstatement. But apparently he manages to be entertaining for his audience.




The best style point for his guides is his 'walk you through from 1 through 20 level by level; I wish more guides spent a bit more time on walking you level by level through a build.

Might be why many people recommend his work, then.

[KorvinStarmast]

Might be why many people recommend his work, then. Yes, and that is particularly important for any multiclass build one is trying.

[MaxWilson]

To be honest though: I'm not impressed with all handbooks either. Some are really good, some aren't, and some good ones have bad parts. The advantage of handbooks on fora like this is that the hive mind can improve them, but some authors are not really well with taking critisism, and refuse to make any changes even when a number of people give (imo: good) arguments). Then again, at least here there is the possiblity that there are improvements after some peer feedback, unlike when you watch something posted on YouTube.

Handbooks aren't great but at least they're quick to read, and sometimes they can give you new ideas. E.g. I recently had it pointed out to me (by this thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?571822-Daemonology-and-You-jiriku-s-guide-to-binding-demons-devils-and-other-fiends)) that Black Abishai, Orthons, Chain Devils, Armanites, and Dybbuks are available for Planar Binding (if you have two spellcasters, one to summon and one to bind), in some cases long before True Polymorph lets you start manufacturing your own Nycaloths/etc. I'd never really given serious thought before to any fiend summons before CR 9 except Chasmes from a 5th level slot, but reading that guide has me thinking that playing a Hexblade 2/Diviner X with a couple of Armanites and a trio of Black Abishai might be a lot of fun even if you don't max out Int. Thanks to the Hexblade's Curse + Magic Missile synergy and Portent + Wrathful Smite synergy + medium armor + shields you have a strong Tier 1 (Diviner 1 for saves, Hex 1 for proficiencies and Wrathful Smite, Diviner 2-3), then Eldritch Blast comes online, then more spells worth Portenting like Suggestion and Polymorph and Fear, then elemental conjuration, then fiend binding.

Elementals tend to have more HP than fiends, but Black Abishai have AC 15 AND the ability to generate their own advantage via Darkness AND magic weapons AND damage competitive with an Earth Elemental even before you factor in weapon resistance. So as long as you've got a good HP healer on your team, Black Abishai are actually tougher and harder-hitting than Earth Elementals for the same gem cost. Armanites also have magic weapons (but not weapon resistance unfortunately) and a high move, so they can reduce their damage taken by kiting. They can also nova AoEs with lightning bolts, which scales nicely, and they can do it frequently. Black Abishai are Medium sized and Armanites are Large sized, and there are advantages and disadvantages to both. E.g. Armanites can black Huge enemies from moving.

Anyway, I wouldn't be thinking along those lines if not for that handbook--but it was waaaaay too much information to fit in a video. If it had been a video I would have zoned out before they finishing covering Dretches and Nupperibos.

[CMCC]

I mean I don't know anything about digital marketing analytics, but that seems pretty coherent to me: the number of creators for that kind of content is low, so any viewer interested on the topic will be herded toward said creators.

Any time I visit one of those channels, Youtube keeps recommending other channels about D&D to me for a while, so it might also be a question of Youtube actually managing to make viewers of one channel seeks more similar content in the restricted pool they have access to.



Fair, I suppose calling him skilled at video-making was an overstatement. But apparently he manages to be entertaining for his audience.




Might be why many people recommend his work, then.

Yeah the 1-20 walkthrough with detailed explanations - while showing it on dndbeyond - are the primary draws for me.

That and I like thoughtful analysis - even if not everyone agrees with the conclusions.

[CMCC]

I mean I don't know anything about digital marketing analytics, but that seems pretty coherent to me: the number of creators for that kind of content is low, so any viewer interested on the topic will be herded toward said creators.


You’re not wrong - but generally when people see a method of success, they’re quick to emulate. I would have expected more channels than nerdarchy, dungeons dudes, treantmonk, min max, dawnforged, and Esper bard - which seem to be the only ones that show up on my feeds and searches.

[KorvinStarmast]

You’re not wrong - but generally when people see a method of success, they’re quick to emulate. I would have expected more channels than nerdarchy, dungeons dudes, treantmonk, min max, dawnforged, and Esper bard - which seem to be the only ones that show up on my feeds and searches. There are a lot of smart people who are camera shy.
I am not one of them, however, you won't see me start a youtube channel due to some of the limits my wife and I have agreed to in re privacy and on line exposure.

As an aside: I'm not sure I've got a face for TV. Maybe more like a face for radio. :smallbiggrin:

[Waazraath]

I do, but my opinion on Treantmonk's work was formed long before he made his Monk video, if that's what you mean.

I've never seen any of his work that wasn't misleading bombast attempting to hide an ultimately disappointing (and oftentimes self-handicapping) build which he "justifies" with poorly-thought-out "reasoning".

Chief among those his whole "god wizard" thing, which people have thankfully brought up less in recent time.

The god wizard handbook was a weird thing when it originated in 3.5. On the one hand, it was crafted with a lot of attention, nice pics, witty writing. He sold his ideas pretty well. Problem for me was: it wasn't that much a new idea. If you read the older wizard handbook from LogicNinja ('a guide to being batman' if I'm not mistaken), you had most of the information there as well. Only LogicNinja had enough sense to mention what was good, but also what was broken: "yeah, the entire polymorph line is stupidly overpowered, just don't take it, maybe only alter self" (again, iirc, its been a long time). What that god wizard handbook did was also promoting the broken stuff into a certain (support) playstyle, while framing this as caster superiority over 'the face' 'the fop' 'the big stupid fighter', etc. I fear that handbook was a major influence in pushing this crappy narrative, from which we still suffer the consequences today. In his defense: he advocates the support caster role to avoid breaking the party balance completely, and to let other classes have its part. On the other hand, the guy who wrote the handbook before him just said dump the stupid broken stuff, and didn't need any negative qualifications of other classes. So the 'god wizard' was a big step in the wrong direction anyway.

So yeah. Though it was a good read, its also best burried deep in the internet.

[Chugger]

To anyone unfamiliar with Treantmonk reading this - and someone who needs DnD advice - I'd like to humbly submit that some of the above Treantmonk-bashing goes imho too far.

I strongly recommend Treantmonk youtube videos and guides - but I also strongly recommend not limiting yourself to his work.

I think above some of the posts accidentally suggest a dichotomy or perhaps a "realm of objective perfection" in DnD guides, and they seem to suggest Treantmonk must be rejected because he somehow "falls short", which is absurd. Don't fall for that. This game is complex - we're going to disagree on a lot of things - and to Treantmonk's credit he often explains why he said X,Y or Z and tgen says if a DM rules certain ways, X Y or Z are wrong. He's pretty cool, really, and very very helpful, especially to newer players.

His videos are long, yes, but not tedious to me. I can see someone already knowing most of what he's saying getting frustrated because in the 20 minute vid there is only 3 minutes of new stuff for them to consider - but - for newer players his videos are wonderful starting points and will help you immensely. And you should only use them as starting points - and you don't have to optimize - you can have just as much fun, sometimes much more fun, if you don't. But some do want to be effective and powerful - nothing wrong with that, either. Treantmonk goes above and beyond - he says what the tactic or idea is - then he explains it thoroughly, how it works and how it doesn't work.

Are there gaps in Treantmonk's theories? Yes! Is he perfect. No! Should we care? Not really. Spend some time watching his vids - use the speed-up function that youtube has (I think in settings) - not joking, slow down or re-run if you miss something or want to review. And then check out our guides, which also are not perfect - and ask in forum - and search for other guides. But I wish we'd stop hammering Treantmonk as hard as we've been doing in this post - imho we're harming new players and not so new players who still need to learn, not helping them. Treantmonk is an asset.

[CMCC]

To anyone unfamiliar with Treantmonk reading this - and someone who needs DnD advice - I'd like to humbly submit that some of the above Treantmonk-bashing goes imho too far.

I strongly recommend Treantmonk youtube videos and guides - but I also strongly recommend not limiting yourself to his work.

I think above some of the posts accidentally suggest a dichotomy or perhaps a "realm of objective perfection" in DnD guides, and they seem to suggest Treantmonk must be rejected because he somehow "falls short", which is absurd. Don't fall for that. This game is complex - we're going to disagree on a lot of things - and to Treantmonk's credit he often explains why he said X,Y or Z and tgen says if a DM rules certain ways, X Y or Z are wrong. He's pretty cool, really, and very very helpful, especially to newer players.

His videos are long, yes, but not tedious to me. I can see someone already knowing most of what he's saying getting frustrated because in the 20 minute vid there is only 3 minutes of new stuff for them to consider - but - for newer players his videos are wonderful starting points and will help you immensely. And you should only use them as starting points - and you don't have to optimize - you can have just as much fun, sometimes much more fun, if you don't. But some do want to be effective and powerful - nothing wrong with that, either. Treantmonk goes above and beyond - he says what the tactic or idea is - then he explains it thoroughly, how it works and how it doesn't work.

Are there gaps in Treantmonk's theories? Yes! Is he perfect. No! Should we care? Not really. Spend some time watching his vids - use the speed-up function that youtube has (I think in settings) - not joking, slow down or re-run if you miss something or want to review. And then check out our guides, which also are not perfect - and ask in forum - and search for other guides. But I wish we'd stop hammering Treantmonk as hard as we've been doing in this post - imho we're harming new players and not so new players who still need to learn, not helping them. Treantmonk is an asset.

All of this.

I actually started this thread because I’m interested to know if there are other channels out there - as high quality as his in terms of analysis - that provide differing opinions and perspectives on the game and build process.